bitterness during the second go

[animalthing]

Basically, me and my ex split up a few months ago because there was just too much fighting in the relationship. We had been only going out for about a year and half, but it was getting pretty serious and so emotions flared when we had too many disagreements.

 

Anyway, we went our separate ways for a little bit but still remained in contact. Just friendly stuff like an e-mail once in a while about music we'd been listening to (we're big music dorks) and how we've been.

 

Since about March, however, we started hanging out again. Neither of us brought up being in a relationship again, but we started going out to dinner, holding hands, and eventually sleeping with each other again, etc. What I've noticed is that after a few days of really great times like this with each other, my ex will start to get REALLY bitter about something that happened when we were going out. We'll be driving on a particular street and it'll remind her of when we got into a fight on that street, etc. She'll get really mad and just want me to leave her alone. Then, either I'll call later and see if she's cooled down or she'll call me and apologize. Either way, we end up going through the same pattern next week.

 

Now, I should explain that I was pretty insensitive for the bulk of our relationship. I loved her and wanted to be with her, but she worshipped me and I pretty much took advantage of that. Sometimes, I would kind of be annoyed by how much she liked me. In the end, when we started fighting, it was because of how she felt disrespected and unappreciated for the most part.

 

Since we've been hanging out again, though, I've tried to be more sensitive to her feelings. And she's had a lot more self-confidence around me, too, so it's easier to respect her. However, at times I feel like she doesn't respect me. When she is reminded of something that happened, she flips out. She'll call me names, etc. Part of me says I deserve it, but for how long will this continue? As long as I let it, I suppose.

 

She says she loves me and that she's noticed that I've been nicer. But then she'll say she wish she met me now so that she didn't have a past with me (the fighting). She says she didn't know bitterness could get that bad, that she feels used, etc. WTF? Is she really just bitter? Can't she see that I'm only human and have flaws? I've even tried to correct those flaws, and she's noticed, but she's still bitter?

 

Anyway, do you guys think there's a chance with this? I'm thinking maybe she just needs time to get over those things. Like, no contact for a while, and maybe we can patch things up. Because we haven't fought at all when we've hung out for the past month until she brings up a negative memory and gets angry.

 

Advice?

[kizik]

The problem with second chances is that there is always going to be a bitter knowledge of the past. Now, this is not an immediate curse, but if one party in the R has a hard time letting things go, is resentful, etc. - the second chance has very little opportunity to succeed.

 

She's resentful. She sounds unforgiving. IMO, second chances don't always fail, but the ones that work require a total forgiveness on the parts of both people.

 

She hasn't forgiven the past, and therefore, this aint gonna work.

[BCCA]

Well, for starters, you cant really expect a free pass for what youve done to her. She may forgive, but she'll never forget. You wouldn't either.

 

I'm going to be honest, reading over your email, I get the impression that you kind of want to just forget about what happened in the past, instead of accept it for what it is. You say 'we split', but you really mean 'I dumped her'. BIG difference. The way you spun it, its like you reached this decision together, when my instinct tells me it was your idea.

 

She has every reason to be upset with you. You took a big dump on her feelings, and she said she feels used. How would you think about someone that you think used you?

 

I think you should focus more on making her feel secure and assuring her that the same thing won't happen again. This attitude of 'how long am I going to let her be mad about it' is really not helping. You have to take some responsibility before anything.

 

If you want redemption, you need to accept responsibility. If I was in her shoes, this has 'going to happen again' written all over it.

[animalthing]

Thanks for the responses. Both have valid points.

 

BCCA, for the record, I didn't dump her. We got into a fight and at the end of it were both saying things like "we need time apart" and "lets take it easy for a while", etc. I could see her being more upset by it, but I think she knew it needed to be done or the fights would get worse.

 

I never defend my actions when she gets mad, I just say something like "I know, I'm sorry. You're right to be mad." I accept responsibility for hurting her. She doesn't believe me, though. So I'm obviously doing something wrong. I thought it might be a matter of time, like needing more of it before she could forgive me. I suppose, though, as you've implied, there's more I could be actively doing to make her feel more secure.

 

I'm just not sure what that is. I feel like I've been doing things right because when we hang out, it's just like when we first started dating. I make her laugh, we both smile and kiss. It's great. I give her space, and I never bring up the relationship or pressure her about anything. But then the past comes right back up due to things out of my control. And to a degree, you're right. I wish the past could just be forgotten. But it can't. She doesn't realize that I know I was wrong and can't believe I acted the way I did.

 

I don't know. As much as I hate the idea that I ruined what we had for good, that might be the case. It is what it is, in the end.

 

More input would still be appreciated, of course.

[BCCA]

I didnt mean to try and put you on the spot or point the finger. The only point of reference I have is getting back together with my ex, and her essentially wanting that whole 'I dumped you' thing to be forgotten. Like I said, you can forgive, but you'll never forget.

 

Do you feel like maybe she blames you for the split? Sounds like it was mutual, but sometimes those things only seem that way on the outside. She could very well have thought she was calling your bluff, but then realized you weren't bluffing too late.

 

I'm glad you admit fault, that definitely helps. Thats all you can really do, let her know you realize your mistakes, and are dedicated to fixing them together. She either believes you or she doesnt. You can wait as long as you feel like it, and at that point, decide if its worth it anymore.

 

Sadly, when bonds like this are broken, its tough to repair them. Keep doing what youre doing, and hope for the best.

[semi spritzer]

Read yr post with interest. What can I say? Ladies take note - it's sometimes not a good idea to worship your guy too much

 

Of course she is still bitter, what do you expect? Sounds like she has unresolved issues in her head from yr previous R. I for one, am not surprised she flares up as she does. I'm not saying her behaviour is glowing but I can understand where she's coming from.

 

I had an ex who mistreated me when I needed support, (police letter accusing me of driving away from an accident (I wasn't there, they got the car reg wrong) and he was very indifferent and chucked it at me). It shattered me. Two years later I had the opportunity to do the same back when he had problems and didn't take it cos I would feel bad in myself. I hated myself after for not doing same back and no matter how much he tried to make up from previous, the R could not be repaired)

 

Maybe you guys should have started to work through this before you became intimate again, it's a bit worrying nothing was said (denial on both sides?), you both carried on as normal. Now it's crept up on you, and its gotten complicated.

 

As the man I think you need to help her work through her issues. Reading your post, it looks like you're gonna have to work hard at it too. B/c she doesn't believe you when you apologise doesn't mean you're doing s/thing wrong. She needs time and to regain confidence in you which can only be maintained by your CONSTANT positive action.

 

Let me say full marks to you for admitting your responsibility in all of this, very commendable. How old are you guys BTW?

 

Good luck to you guys, hiope it works out well

[semi spritzer]

see above reply

[playlislay]

You need to let her know that this bitterness and behaviour is not on. You must also try to be sympathetic and understand why she is acting this way-all easier said than done.

 

Dont sit back and let her continue with this behaviour, because if you bottle it up you are sure to explode at somepoint and could end up leaving her over it.

 

Prevent it from happening, dont feel bad about letting her know that he bitterness maes you unhappy.

 

My ex never told me, due to the fear of hurting me (I think?!) and in the end he couldnt take it and we havent been together since ( God I miss that man!

 

Dont lose her dude, good luck!

[not_a_happy_camper]

dude..........I'm coming from the same place as your ex right now, trying to reconcile a relationship, where I felt taken for granted. I was dumped, but four months later I made the first contact, and even though I did that, it's my ex who's doing most of the chasing right now. I contacted him, thinking I was over all that happened. He was my first love, first break-up.........................I was gutted, absolutely inconsolable, and I still cry when I remember how horrible I felt. (I"d stopped crying................it's started again since we've been back in touch)

 

I wanted to give things another go, because I know how good things were. I missed him and realised I too had made mistakes.

 

some people say you have to be completely over the first relationship/break-up to have any chance at another go. but that at the same time, you have to reconcile the issues that caused you to break up, or issues that arose first time around in general, if you're to have another chance. I've found that bringing up all those issues is like picking the scab off a wound. It's vaguely satisfying while sifting through the issues................but at the end of the day, all you're doing is making yourself bleed again, and leaving a bigger scar. I'm finding myself incredibly bitter. I can absolutely see where your girlfriend is coming from. and telling her this bitterness is unacceptable is not the way to go about it. Mind, I think you are handling this well. the fact that you are accepting responsibility for her hurt speaks volumes about how much you care for her. My ex is constantly defending his behaviour and saying I'm too sensitive, that any other girl wouldn't give a crap about stuff he says that has hurt me. word to the wise.............I'm not any other girl. I'm me! Anyway...................an example of my bitterness! I can see this going nowhere...............

 

The point is.........................her bitterness will prevent your attempt at another go from being successful. have you tried reconciling all that happened first time round? I know you've apologised, and accepted responsibility for your part in all that's happened, but maybe you're moving too fast with things now? Neither of you seem to be on the same page.

[animalthing]

Thanks for all of the replies. Seriously. There is a lot of insight from you guys, you all seem to have some experience with this type of thing.

 

I talked to her on the phone a few hours ago and she said she's gonna take a nap and call me later. So we'll see what happens. I definitely want to show her that I love her and want to reconcile things that happened in the past.

 

She mentioned couples counseling as a solution. I'm going to look into this further.

[Fiaman]

You know what I think it is?

 

She still loves you but she knows she shouldn't be with you.

[animalthing]

Probably.

 

I just got off the phone with her. She seemed really disinterested in hanging out with me or talking about anything. She said she'll call me again later, but ****. This is hurting. I think she's deliberately talking to me the way I used to talk to her to get back at me. Talking like she doesn't give a damn about the relationship, etc.

 

I can definitely see why she was so hurt the first time around.

[Ronni_W]

I can definitely see why she was so hurt the first time around.

That is an excellent place to start! -- have a conversation with her that clearly lets her know that you are beginning to understand the "negative" feelings that you used to facilitate for her. Use, er, 'feeling words' -- frustrated, ignored, disrespected, taken for granted, unimportant -- whatever YOU are genuinely feeling, say those words to her.

Because, this:

I just say something like "I know, I'm sorry. You're right to be mad."

...does not work to help people feel heard and understood.

 

You might as well say, "I'm gonna say this with the hope that you will shut the eff up: I know, I'm sorry. You're right to be mad. How about those Dolphins? And this weather!"

 

See how it gets lost and really has no meaning at all?

And the truth is that if we don't know how others feel and if we can't communicate to them that we do know, then they know that they don't really have a chance of us even trying to change our hurtful behaviours.

 

So, maybe give that a try. Start the conversation yourself, and not when you guys are in the middle of a tiff. Basically, "This is how I feel when you do that, and I'm starting to guess that you felt along the same lines...is that right?" Let her tell you, and take it from there.

 

Here is an article on effective communications, that may be helpful (to both of you): http://ezinearticles.com/?Assertive-Communication---6-Tips-For-Effective-Use&id=10259

 

Good luck.

[animalthing]

Alright, so we ended up going to a movie. We both liked it a lot and gave each other little arm squeezes throughout. But on the way home, she just seemed really disengaged by me. She did not want to talk about the relationship at all, so I backed off. When it did come up, she seemed really depressed about it. In fact, she seemed very depressed in general. She complained a lot about her current situation (dropping out of college) and how she hates everybody. I tried to stay positive, but she didn't seem to care what I had to say. She doesn't trust that I'll do anything I say I'm going to do. I mentioned a few things about life plans I had, but she seemed to doubt that I would ever follow through with them.

 

In the end, we hugged goodbye and she said "I love you". But the whole thing felt very...distant. It didn't feel like it was there at all. My plan right now is to just not bother her and wait until she calls me to do something. Maybe she just had a rough day.

[not_a_happy_camper]

animal I'm really relating to your girlfriend/ex (not sure what to call her, are you truly back together or is it work in progress more so?!). in the resentment side of things, I"m being very distant with my ex even though we're trying to give it another go. I'm being distant, not to hurt him, or show him in any way how he treated me, but I'm being distant to protect myself and figure out what it is I'm feeling. It's possible that this is where your girl is at now. be patient with her. Things won't go back to normal straight away. they may never go back to normal, and things may not work out, no matter how much you want them to.

 

It's possible she doesn't know what she's feeling. I don't know your story, other than it seemed to be a mutual break? how long were you two apart before trying to reconcile? who made the step to reconcile?

[animalthing]

i really appreciate your replies notahappycamper.

 

I guess our break only lasted about a month and a half to two months, but like i said in the original post we were still in contact. I'm the one who suggested we see each other, but she's the one who said she missed me and she agreed to meet up again without much hesitation at all.

 

do you think she needs more time alone? like, no contact alone? i feel like she's confused and bitter at the same time. the thing is, because i'm taking a lot of the fault for our arguments, she's starting to blame me for everything that went wrong in her life. she'll say its because of our arguments that she dropped out of school because she got so depressed. she blames me for her weight gain, whereas i've been getting in better shape.

 

like, i understand her bitterness and i know i shouldn't say anything, but am i really at fault for these things? shouldn't she accept some responsibility for her own decisions? i want to help her in those areas of her life, but i don't think that means taking responsibility for them. she seems to like coming off as a big victim in our relationship, and i'm not sure if that's entirely the case. i don't want to argue with her about it, but i don't want her to really start thinking that's true. and she isn't willing to talk to me about it either. she doesn't trust a word i say, it seems like. she disregards me. obviously, i know this is because she needs to see change rather than hear it. but i feel like i'm getting blamed for a whole lot of things that aren't my fault alone.

[not_a_happy_camper]

do you think she needs more time alone? like, no contact alone?

 

perhaps, if she's not fully over the break-up, and it sounds as though she isn't. healing before reconciliation is so important, and if you were still in contact, she hasn't had the time away from you to heal and figure out what it is she's really feeling. like you said, she's confused. and bitter over the break and the hurt. maybe she needs more time to get over that.

 

the thing is, because i'm taking a lot of the fault for our arguments, she's starting to blame me for everything that went wrong in her life. she'll say its because of our arguments that she dropped out of school because she got so depressed. she blames me for her weight gain, whereas i've been getting in better shape.

 

This is absolutely not your problem. take responsibility for your part in things for sure. But do NOT let her blame you for the things that are her own responsibility. she dropped out of school - her decision, not yours. she was upset. perhaps because of things you might have said or done. but she is the only one in control of her actions, not you. she's responsible for her weight gain. I'm sure you're not sitting there stuffing her face with cake! That is ridiculous that she is blaming you for that.

 

like, i understand her bitterness and i know i shouldn't say anything, but am i really at fault for these things?

 

absolutely not. you may be part of the reason she's upset.................but you can't MAKE her do anything. what exactly is she bitter about then? It sounds like she's bitter that things aren't going her way, yet she's doing nothing to fix things for herself? Oh I'm definitely beginning to see where time apart with no contact will benefit you both.

 

 

shouldn't she accept some responsibility for her own decisions?

 

absolutely. she's the only person who can fix those problems you mentioned and until she does take responsibility, she won't fix anything.

 

i want to help her in those areas of her life, but i don't think that means taking responsibility for them. she seems to like coming off as a big victim in our relationship, and i'm not sure if that's entirely the case

.

 

of course you want to help her, you care for her a lot. but again, this is in her hands. and you say she doesn't want to talk about this, and disregards you? How is that going to help reconcile the relationship? she needs to hear how you are feeling about it. if that means writing it down in a letter so that she reads it, by all means do. she seems to be in a bad place right now. Tell her you want to support her and be there for her. But that you can't take the blame for things that you didn't do. and until she begins to take responsibility, there is little you can do for her. you will only go around in circles. if at this point she doesn't see the light and realise you are trying to do her a favour, then explain you have to quit cold turkey, go NC. she will either resent you more because she's not mature enough to take control of her own issues, in which case, you deserve better, or she will see the light......................which may take some time.

[animalthing]

she seems to be on and off about even wanting to commit to a relationship, which is probably why it hadn't come up before i started talking about it. she'll be all for it one day and then incredibly resentful the next. she's very hopeless about a lot of things. it's hard to not want to comfort her in these times, but if she's pushing me away what can i do?

 

i'm going to wait a few days without contacting her (i have a busy week ahead anyway) and then i'll send her an e-mail explaining how i've been feeling and exactly what i'm taking responsibility for. only time and patience can tell, but i'm having a lot of doubts about this. i guess i should just continue on with my life without any expectations for now.

 

thanks again for your help and support. i appreciate it.

[not_a_happy_camper]

I think you're doing the right thing animal. Keep us posted, let us know how things go for you.