Jersey Shortie Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I think men and women can fantasize about things they want to happen and things they don't really want to happen. It's a fine line sometimes that's hard to make clear and is really dependent on the individual. I don't really believe the majority of women that have those type of fantasties really want to be "rape" in the 6 O'Clock news way. I think it's more of the idea of her being so sexy and hot that a guy can't resist her then it is being taken and abused sexually and hurt. Perhaps you are taking it too literally in that sense. While men don't fantasize about being raped probably, I think they have their own fantasizes about control and dominance over women sometimes. And not in a way that hurts women, but power and all that jazz.
Sam Spade Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Obviously there is a difference of degree here. However, if she does not consent, then she does not consent. Still rape. Not to hijack the thread, but this consent area is very shady. Not a single woman I've ever slept with has verbally consented to having sex. You make out, and then you take it to the bedroom . So I'm a rapist now ?
Sam Spade Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I think men and women can fantasize about things they want to happen and things they don't really want to happen. It's a fine line sometimes that's hard to make clear and is really dependent on the individual. I don't really believe the majority of women that have those type of fantasties really want to be "rape" in the 6 O'Clock news way. I think it's more of the idea of her being so sexy and hot that a guy can't resist her then it is being taken and abused sexually and hurt. Perhaps you are taking it too literally in that sense. While men don't fantasize about being raped probably, I think they have their own fantasizes about control and dominance over women sometimes. And not in a way that hurts women, but power and all that jazz. Jeez, for once i agree with you . As a guy I certainly have rape fantasies, but they certainly don't deviate from what would constitute somewhat rough consensual sex . But I really don's understand how an actual rape could be any fun . Well, maybe I can, but if so, it seems it has got very little, or almost nothing to do with the actual sex.
MindoverMatter Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 In dreams, everything feals good, in reality, raping means fear, means violence, means pain. Many people also dream of wrestling a bear and win, yet guess what...it's different in reality.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted March 28, 2009 Author Posted March 28, 2009 Seeing some good stuff in here. Gonna let it run for a bit. Please do pay attention to other people's ideas/views of rape and its degree. Also pay attention to how willing to forgive and forget one's past some are.
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I agree with Sam.. I never slept with a woman and had her consent, as I never asked. I think women would be pretty turned off if a man asked "Can I kiss you" "Is it ok if we have sexual intercourse" etc. And all guys have been with women, especially when younger, maybe out of fear of seeming "easy" that pull the "no no" thing. In which you pause, then she makes it clear she wants to have sex.
kdark Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Jeez, for once i agree with you . As a guy I certainly have rape fantasies, but they certainly don't deviate from what would constitute somewhat rough consensual sex . But I really don's understand how an actual rape could be any fun . Well, maybe I can, but if so, it seems it has got very little, or almost nothing to do with the actual sex. Spot on. Rape is all about control. I think some women who fantisize about rape want it because the idea of being completely controlled by a very dominant, primal male is a turn on to them. So dominant that the male doesn't even ask or care whether she wants to or not. A little twisted, but hey, that's why it's a fantasy.
sally4sara Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I think men and women can fantasize about things they want to happen and things they don't really want to happen. It's a fine line sometimes that's hard to make clear and is really dependent on the individual. I don't really believe the majority of women that have those type of fantasties really want to be "rape" in the 6 O'Clock news way. I think it's more of the idea of her being so sexy and hot that a guy can't resist her then it is being taken and abused sexually and hurt. Perhaps you are taking it too literally in that sense. While men don't fantasize about being raped probably, I think they have their own fantasizes about control and dominance over women sometimes. And not in a way that hurts women, but power and all that jazz. Yes. Centuries upon centuries of fantasies about Amazon-like women. Fascination over women toting guns or swords. Hot, hot kung fu beat downs by seemingly demure girls. Men have always enjoyed stories about women that could kill them. Does that mean men secretly wish to be abused or killed during sex? Do they all really crave to be the hman version of male preying mantis? No. Its the desire to control that which frightens us the most so we don't live in fear of it.
sally4sara Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Spot on. Rape is all about control. I think some women who fantisize about rape want it because the idea of being completely controlled by a very dominant, primal male is a turn on to them. So dominant that the male doesn't even ask or care whether she wants to or not. A little twisted, but hey, that's why it's a fantasy. The is flawed psychology and it is one of the arguments used to excuse rape. "She was asking for it; look at how she was dressed/where and who she was hanging out with. Deep down women just naturally want to be taken".
Taramere Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Seeing some good stuff in here. Gonna let it run for a bit. Please do pay attention to other people's ideas/views of rape and its degree. Also pay attention to how willing to forgive and forget one's past some are. I couldn't forgive or refuse to forgive a man for hurting another woman, because it wouldn't be my place to offer that kind of absolution/damnation. That is between him and the woman he hurt. The crime of rape would be a huge deal for the victim of it. It would be a huge deal for any woman to hear that a man she was in a relationship with had either raped a woman or been accused of it. It would be a huge deal for him to admit it, assuming he wasn't someone who just got off on shocking them with such information. I agree with Serial Muse about this being a manipulative thread, and I also agree with the Collector that it's in poor taste. If you want to debate a subject as serious as rape, it would be more responsible and honest to provide some clear focus for the discussion - rather than try to play some childish cat and mouse game with people.
Cherished Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Guys fantasies are typically simple. The girl they see at the bank, a friends mom, etc. They do not fantasize about raping them, or being raped. Lots of men in prison for rape prove this isn't true. Lots of women (your friend's mom, woman who works at the bank, college student about to graduate) who have been raped can refute this,also.
kdark Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 The is flawed psychology and it is one of the arguments used to excuse rape. "She was asking for it; look at how she was dressed/where and who she was hanging out with. Deep down women just naturally want to be taken". I'm not saying that it should ever be an excuse to justify a rape. I'm saying that women who truly have fantasies about rape, are fantasizing about it for that reason. I'm guessing only a small minority of woman actually do fantasize about being raped, I'm also guessing that their idea of the fantasy is a lot more tame than an actual rape.
MindoverMatter Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I think you're right about that, kdark. I also think that after 6 pages worth of answers, the OP should provide some insight now. Or else, pretty soon this thread will be shot down for not answering the OP at all, which is against community guidelines.
Lindarose84 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Seeing some good stuff in here. Gonna let it run for a bit. Please do pay attention to other people's ideas/views of rape and its degree. Also pay attention to how willing to forgive and forget one's past some are. Ok "professor", I think your instructing grown men and women to "pay attention" is a bit asinine and it shows that this thread was not meant for honest and intellectual discourse, but for you to get your rocks off on baiting people into a discussion only to "reveal" the idiotic motive you had in starting this thread. Instead of "letting" anything "run for a bit", why don't you either add to the thread you began in a meaningful way or just stop with the cat and mouse game.
burning 4 revenge Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Kind of an inappropriate and distasteful subject to play the 'I'll tell you later' game with. You need to revive your Where Have All the Cowboys Gone thread
sally4sara Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I'm not saying that it should ever be an excuse to justify a rape. I'm saying that women who truly have fantasies about rape, are fantasizing about it for that reason. I'm guessing only a small minority of woman actually do fantasize about being raped, I'm also guessing that their idea of the fantasy is a lot more tame than an actual rape. No. They fantasize about it because the fantasy has an enjoyable outcome that they wanted rather than what the real life version of it would do to them. To imagine it happening AND being enjoyable makes it seem less scary. Imagining it is a safe version they are CHOOSING. Choosing something puts the chooser in the position of power (submissive is the one really in control in BDSM). Women who fantasize about being raped seek to have control over what would terrify them in real life. Women who have been sexually abused sometimes seek out partners who will help them re-live their past abuse from the seat of power as the one who chooses the actions to happen to them. A man can doubt a woman's explanation on this but they should find it within them to accept it whether they believe her or not. Anything less would sets the stage for rape. REAL rape.
missdependant Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Well, in Colorado this is not statutory rape. If somebody is 15-16 and has sex with somebody less than 10 years older than them, it's legal. So I guess everything's relative. Not defined as rape by law, but if some guy I was with told me when he was 24 he had sex with a 15-year old, I'd be so sick to my stomach. Anyway - no, I could not date a man that had committed rape. You didn't say whether or not he was CONVICTED and you did not say how I found out. So I would assume it's just a fact I had somehow discovered (whether he told me, someone else did, or I found the records), I could not date him. Anything in a person's past can tell you what kind of person they are. You have to decide if it's something that can be moved past, or not. Some choices made when we are young are ones that can be learned from and are not permanent dark marks. Rape is not one of those choices. A little off-topic.. I live in Colorado also. A friend of mine pissed in public when he was drunk and because of that he is now a registered sex-offender. Sucks for him, but it is a little bit funny. And no, I'd never date him lol.
MindoverMatter Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 sally4sara: I think there are different explanations for rape fantasies (or better: extremely rough sex fantasies) for different women.
kdark Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 No. They fantasize about it because the fantasy has an enjoyable outcome that they wanted rather than what the real life version of it would do to them. To imagine it happening AND being enjoyable makes it seem less scary. Imagining it is a safe version they are CHOOSING. Choosing something puts the chooser in the position of power (submissive is the one really in control in BDSM). Women who fantasize about being raped seek to have control over what would terrify them in real life. Women who have been sexually abused sometimes seek out partners who will help them re-live their past abuse from the seat of power as the one who chooses the actions to happen to them. A man can doubt a woman's explanation on this but they should find it within them to accept it whether they believe her or not. Anything less would sets the stage for rape. REAL rape. So if I'm hearing you correctly, women who fantasize about being raped are using that fantasy as a coping mechanism to deal with the trauma of the rape that happened to them or it helps them downplay the thought actually being raped by allowing them to be in control? I agree with you on the corrective emotional experience that women who are victims of sexual abuse are trying to find by seeking out partners who exhibit traits of their abuser. I knew it had everything to do with control, but I still think it has something to do with losing control, excitement of the danger, and the excitement of the unknown. And like I said before, the rape fantasy in women who haven't experienced trauma from real abuse would be much tamer than the real thing.
sally4sara Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 So if I'm hearing you correctly, women who fantasize about being raped are using that fantasy as a coping mechanism to deal with the trauma of the rape that happened to them or it helps them downplay the thought actually being raped by allowing them to be in control? I agree with you on the corrective emotional experience that women who are victims of sexual abuse are trying to find by seeking out partners who exhibit traits of their abuser. I knew it had everything to do with control, but I still think it has something to do with losing control, excitement of the danger, and the excitement of the unknown. And like I said before, the rape fantasy in women who haven't experienced trauma from real abuse would be much tamer than the real thing. I mention women who have been sexually abuse separately from women with a garden variety fantasy. I called them as such to indicate them as different. I do not believe and did not state that all women who fantasize rape are doing so to deal with past trauma. Sorry for the confusion. Instances of victims seeking to re-live the moment are different from women who simply fantasize but do not act it out. BDSM is a whole other instance as well. It isn't just women who seek out the submissive role either. I was a professional Dom for 2 and half years and studied under someone with many many years experience with it. All of my clients were men and my services stayed within the limits of the law. I was aware of and exposed to all aspects of the lifestyle because I had no personal desire for it to happen to me but wished to understand it well enough to be good at my job. BDSM is different in that a "submissive" is the one calling the shots and the "dominant" is the one following the rules as decided by the submissive. In these instances it isn't about a secret desire to really be raped or even a need to work through past trauma. It is one person giving another the chance to earn their trust. Like "I trust you to be mindful of my personal limits." To be a bit more on topic: I do agree that the OP is highly insensitive for making a game of this subject, but I think this topic is an important one to discuss. Even though the OP didn't have a goodwill motive, we can turn it into one in spite of him. I feel the reason many women won't admit to having a "rape" fantasy is because insensitive men try to use it against them. They feel it is contradictory and gives them ground to think women don't always mean it when they say no.
OpenBook Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I do agree that the OP is highly insensitive for making a game of this subject It sounds more like he is trying to justify rape, get it more into mainstream thinking so that people will accept it more: Seeing some good stuff in here. Gonna let it run for a bit. Please do pay attention to other people's ideas/views of rape and its degree. Also pay attention to how willing to forgive and forget one's past some are. My blood ran cold when I read this.
loser101 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I feel the reason many women won't admit to having a "rape" fantasy is because insensitive men try to use it against them. They feel it is contradictory and gives them ground to think women don't always mean it when they say no. I sometimes wonder about womens' 'rape' fantasies and I think the reason why I stop at a certain point and don't even try to figure out whether I would have that fantasy is the fear of trivialising real rape. For example what happens to women during war or in numerous countries in Africa where men use rape as a weapon. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99838343 When I read something like this the idea of fantasizing about some handsome stranger having his wicked ways with me seems just pathetic.
sally4sara Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 It sounds more like he is trying to justify rape, get it more into mainstream thinking so that people will accept it more: My blood ran cold when I read this. Most likely something like that or some other equally tacky reason. But then, he's already shown himself to be tacky about the subject of women in general. Isn't that weird? A bigoted male in the U.S.? The land with the most freedom and rights for women in all the world and this is STILL TYPICAL. And then the sad comparison of finding out some guy committed rape is the same as finding out some girl was promiscuous! I hope this comparison is due to the fact that men are not likely to date a woman and then learn she committed rape and therefore cannot find a good comparison. But really why would a man ever feel as disgusted by a woman who slept many partners as one might feel about a guy who forced himself on another human? Particularly when we live in a society that barely blinks if a guy says he has had many partners? And people wonder why a woman might be hesitant to admit having a "rape" fantasy. It is no wonder in a world where men can dream of amazon women, but don't have to do so in secret for fear of being raped for it.
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 In some African nations rape is legal, and that is an entirely different story. If I had to guess, I would use this analogy.. A female is at a bar, and some creepy guy makes a joke.. "Ewww, how creepy to say something like that" Another guy whom is fit, sexy, and handsome, says the exact same thing.. "Wow he is hot" I think if women fantasize they sometimes fantasize about a really good looking strong guy, whom she would be VERY attracted to who has his way with her. He cannot control himself, and she does not consent, but this is a guy she wants to have sex with. He also can never view her as easy, as he just took it. I can see women fantasizing over that as opposed to a meek guy asking for sex.
loser101 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 In some African nations rape is legal, and that is an entirely different story. not in the Congo it's not. I can mention the Balkans in Europe in the 90s if that's more appropriate. so how does that fit with your point?
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