AlektraClementine Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Why do you feel it necessary to bring these kinds of statistics into the equation? The fact alone that studies like these exist is disturbing. To me anyway. Makes me really really start to wonder about motive. Whatever. Private fantasy is just that. I'm sure we'd all be surprised to know the number of heterosexual men in the world who have fantasies of being topped by a dude. edit: never mind. this isn't the right argument for me.
Isolde Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Prostitution should not even enter in the same conversation as rape. Rape isn't in the same league as murder, though it's not far either. And my answer is no.
BlueEyedGirl Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I was nearly raped by a stranger (later proven to be serial rapist) who pulled me into his car on my way to school when I was 7. :sick: My answer is NO WAY IN HELL.
SoulSearch_CO Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 In California, if you're an 18.1 year old BOY and have 100% consentual sex with a 17.9 year old girl, and her parents press charges, you can (and will) be convicted of statutory rape. As a result, you'll have to register yourself as a sex offender. Fun, right? That "rapist" is NOT on par with someone who's violent. Well, in Colorado this is not statutory rape. If somebody is 15-16 and has sex with somebody less than 10 years older than them, it's legal. So I guess everything's relative. Not defined as rape by law, but if some guy I was with told me when he was 24 he had sex with a 15-year old, I'd be so sick to my stomach. Anyway - no, I could not date a man that had committed rape. You didn't say whether or not he was CONVICTED and you did not say how I found out. So I would assume it's just a fact I had somehow discovered (whether he told me, someone else did, or I found the records), I could not date him. Anything in a person's past can tell you what kind of person they are. You have to decide if it's something that can be moved past, or not. Some choices made when we are young are ones that can be learned from and are not permanent dark marks. Rape is not one of those choices.
Taramere Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 A recent analysis of 20 studies over the last 30 years indicates that between 31% and 57% of women have rape fantasies, and these fantasies are frequent or preferred in 9% to 17% of women. Considering that many people are ashamed to report rape fantasies, these stats are most likely lowball figures. In another thread, I mentioned the cathartic use of fantasy. People fantasise about all kinds of things, and are entitled to. What you describe as a "rape fantasy" may simply be a fantasy about rough sex. The "he wants me so much that he can't control himself" thing...but note that it's a fantasy. The fantasy occurs when the woman wants it to occur. When she's in the mood for it. She controls it. She chooses to have the fantasy - so by definition that fantasy is consensual. Rape isn't. You've not been very clear about the aim of your post there. What point are you trying to make with it? Do you think that the blog you quoted from to adds substance to a theory that rape isn't all that bad really? I remember watching The Accused when it came out on video. There was a mixed group of us. In the scene just before the gang rape, when Jodie Foster is doing her provocative dance in the bar, a couple of the guys were making comments to the effect of "come on. If that's not a green light for sex...." By the end of the rape scene, they were more shocked than the girls were. Probably because for us, it was pretty much what we'd expected it to be. They obviously expected something different - though I'm not quite sure what. They (the guys) were all saying "it wouldn't happen. The other guys in the bar would wade in there and stop it." But it did happen. A bar full of guys - most of whom were probably horrified, but nonetheless sat back and did nothing. The rapists - fuelled by booze and egged on by a group of the kind of guys who load the gun then encourage other men to fire it. AKA (in my view) the very worst kind of guy there is. Worse than the rapist himself - unless the rapist is also that kind of guy. They know exactly what they're doing. They have the capacity to stand back and see the effects (on victims) of a rape. They'll visit a board like this, which has an abuse section and which a lot of women generally use because it's supposed to be a relatively safe place where they can discuss some of the crappiest things that have happened to them. And still they encourage other guys to view any women who deviate from their fixed notions of what women should be as sluts/whores/cum dumpsters who don't really count. Waging war against women for daring to be sexual: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,953825,00.html When I watched that film (The Accused) I couldn't comprehend what kind of guy would stand back and egg other men on in a rape. I seriously hadn't met any men who I thought could ever possess that kind of mentality. Pre-Internet innocence.
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Would you ladies date a guy that fantasizes about raping women, and that is his biggest fantasy? The psychological study makes a clear distinction between rape, and rough sex. It is not a consensual "rough sex" study. In the romance novels women love to read, does the male rapist who seems to be desired first have a conversation with the main character? "Ok honey, Let's role play today, and I will pretend like i am raping you." No he rapes her and women seem to get off on the idea. Th fantasy does seem to be sort of like the woman is taming this beast. Not a nice boyfriend who wants to roleplay. And do not spend time blaming me. I did not conduct the study, I do not write romance novels, nor do I get off on reading them. I have never had the fantasy of raping a woman. Many women ARE messed up.. Kind of like how so many say something like "no no" but very quietly as they are pulling their own clothes off, or moving in a way so that they are easy to take off while kissing you. Once again, I NEVER raped a woman, nor would I want to. Rapists are scum. But when the consent thing is taken literally,I imagine we have millions of rapists walking around the streets. I guess guys are different as we do not fantasize about things we do not want to happen in real life. Since we are mentioning movies I remember a Clint Eastwood movie in which this lady had an attitude. Clint took her to the barn, forcefully raped her. During sex she started to like it. Then he left and never spoke to her again. She then told the authorities, and a lynch mob was after clint. Somebody said to Clint, "Wow, she is mad about you forcing yourself on her" He said "No she isn't, she is mad I never came back for more"
The Collector Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Kind of an inappropriate and distasteful subject to play the 'I'll tell you later' game with.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Kind of an inappropriate and distasteful subject to play the 'I'll tell you later' game with. Agreed.......
MindoverMatter Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 In the romance novels women love to read, does the male rapist who seems to be desired first have a conversation with the main character? "Ok honey, Let's role play today, and I will pretend like i am raping you." No he rapes her and women seem to get off on the idea. [...] Many women ARE messed up.. Kind of like how so many say something like "no no" but very quietly as they are pulling their own clothes off, or moving in a way so that they are easy to take off while kissing you. [...] Since we are mentioning movies I remember a Clint Eastwood movie in which this lady had an attitude. Clint took her to the barn, forcefully raped her. During sex she started to like it. Then he left and never spoke to her again. She then told the authorities, and a lynch mob was after clint. Somebody said to Clint, "Wow, she is mad about you forcing yourself on her" He said "No she isn't, she is mad I never came back for more" 1. I have never read a romance novel with a rape in it. Not ever. Not once. Nor have I heard of any where such a thing takes place. 2. If a woman says no, in any way, you have to make sure she wants it. Thinking that saying no is part of the game is very dangerous territory. 3. Same about the movie. He did rape her and he should be put in jail for that. Her body might have reacted that way, but it doesn't make it any less of a rape. And what would a guy do in that situation? Go on and do it again. And again. A no is a no. Very disturbing post. Very disturbing.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 No means no simple it doesn't mean I really want it but am saying NO..! Anything else is rape.. also I don't care if a women changes her mind half way STOP means STOP...
MindoverMatter Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 No means no simple it doesn't mean I really want it but am saying NO..! Anything else is rape.. also I don't care if a women changes her mind half way STOP means STOP... 100% agree!
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Ok, maybe it is called "forced seduction". That is very popular in romance novels. And yes, no doubt, being a male you must be careful with whom you sleep with. After all, all the woman really has to do at will, at anytime is call the authorities and just claim she said no. Something like 50% of reported rapes claims are fraudulent.
MindoverMatter Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Ok, maybe it is called "forced seduction". That is very popular in romance novels. [...] Something like 50% of reported rapes claims are fraudulent. Can you name a source, please?
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Ok, I am sure this is where "links" are blamed.. But most reliable sources pin the number between 25-50%. Which is EXTREMELY high. I found this within 5 minutes, but I am sure more info or various other studies can be located. http://www.americandaily.com/article/5075 According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (“Archives of Sexual Behavior. Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser. Kanin found that most of the false accusers were motivated by a need for an alibi or a desire for revenge. Kanin was once well known and lauded by the feminist movement for his groundbreaking research on male sexual aggression. His studies on false rape accusations, however, received very little attention. Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false. The most common reasons the women gave for falsely accusing rape were "spite or revenge," and to compensate for feelings of guilt or shame. Craig Silverman, a former Colorado prosecutor known for his zealous prosecution of rapists during his 16-year career, says that false rape accusations occur with "scary frequency." As a regular commentator on the Bryant trial for Denver's ABC affiliate, Silverman noted that "any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes." According to Silverman, a Denver sex-assault unit commander estimates that nearly half of all reported rape claims are false.
Taramere Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Would you ladies date a guy that fantasizes about raping women, and that is his biggest fantasy? I don't dismiss people for having dark fantasies, because I think fantasy is a harmless way of exploring and owning up to some of our scarier aspects. We all have basic drives that are aggressive, sexual, seek power. Most people have good management of those drives and are able to separate what happens in fantasy from how far they should go in reality. Although I wouldn't dismiss a person on the basis of their fantasies, I would dismiss them for choosing to disclose them in circumstances I found inappropriate. For instance, I'd walk out of a date with a man I'd just met who started trying to discuss rape fantasies with me. To me that would show a total lack of/disregard for social boundaries. I'd assume that he was liable to lack boundaries of his own and disregard other people's boundaries in all kinds of other ways. Sexual fantasy is private thing, to be kept for a trustworthy intimate who's well adjusted enough to differentiate between fantasy and reality - not to mention broad-minded enough to know that a woman can have certain fantasies without it meaning she's up for it with any Tom Dick or Harry who's diligently studying "what women really want" advice on message boards. Or broad-minded enough to know that a man can have certain fantasies without requiring locking up. If I were in an established relationship with a man, and he disclosed to me that he'd become preoccupied with the idea of raping someone, I'd be scared and distressed. Rather than simply ditching someone I cared about, I'd probably want to go to a couples therapist in an effort to find out what was going wrong, and whether it could possibly be put right....but it's not something I'd try to tackle on my own. And until it got sorted out, I don't think I could be sexual with him. I'd be too creeped out. In the romance novels women love to read, does the male rapist who seems to be desired first have a conversation with the main character? "Ok honey, Let's role play today, and I will pretend like i am raping you." No he rapes her and women seem to get off on the idea. Because, once again, the novel is fantasy. In Harry Potter, Professor Snape doesn't say "right, today we're going to pretend there's such a thing as magic - and I'm going to teach you how to perform it." My God. Something like 50% of reported rapes claims are fraudulent What....have you got some kind of time machine whereby you go back and observe each encounter that resulted in a rape allegation being made? Your trolling here is going way over the line. Rape is a horrible thing. Horrible for a woman to experience it, horrible for a man to find himself accused of it. In some situations (especially where drink or drugs have been taken, with the full knowledge of both parties) the issue of consent is particularly grey. Maybe in those situations it becomes less about blame, more about people taking some personal responsibility for the state they let themselves get into, and what happens while they're in that state. On the matter of personal responsibility, you might want to 'fess up to your reasons for plucking that completely unproveable 50% figure out of thin air and posting it as some kind of authority for the notion that rape complaints are something ladies make up for fun.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Ok, maybe it is called "forced seduction". That is very popular in romance novels. And yes, no doubt, being a male you must be careful with whom you sleep with. After all, all the woman really has to do at will, at anytime is call the authorities and just claim she said no. Something like 50% of reported rapes claims are fraudulent. Gee back when I was date raped I guess it was just "forced seduction" ha? I mean I said no I said stop I guess that was just pillow talk ha? sorry but that comment just pissed me off NO means NO! how hard is that? Really who's going to report a rape just to get revenge? half the time in true rape cases its not even reported the womens to ashamed I think..
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Study after study illustrates that 25 to 50% of claims are FALSE. Maybe 50% is high. Similar to the Duke team whom was accused of rape. The girl was just wacko. She had the semen of 9 guys in her underpants, but none belonged to the Duke guys. I can tell you it happened to me. I was on vacation with a girl I was dating for about 8 months. I knew she was kind of "out there" but we were young..21 years old. We went to NYC for a week to have fun. We went to a club and got WAY to drunk. She claims I was kissing another girl, (not even close) and went crazy.She was one of those people who turn mean when they drink. So we got back to the hotel, and she was yelling, screaming, throwing things. Claiming she was 100% positive I kissed another girl. I did nothing. I tried to lay down and go to bed. She persisted. I decided to get dressed and leave. As I was leaving the police knocked on the door. I suppose a neighbor called them due to her noise. The police scared us. Said we were both going to jail. Then they separated us. I was fine, told them things would be fine. I said she was just drunk and mad, and told them the story. I told them she has done this before, and things will blow over. 5 minutes later they arrest me. I did not know why. They took me to Rikers Island. I find out she claimed "I raped her". I spent 8 days there. The following day she then recanted, was sad, missed me etc., But it was too late, and they said the state was taking up charges. After a few days, she wrote some statement admitting she lied, and they let me go with no charges. Of course she then wanted to date me, missed me etc. But I never spoke to her again. She contacted me for an entire year trying to get back with me. So in my case we did not even have sex. It was just a drunk mad woman making a claim, because she felt I was kissing another girl, and then she was afraid of going to jail. It was a VERY scary 8 days, as I was looking at 20 years in prison, and had no idea how it would turn out. And of course the prosecutor was trying to act like my friend, telling me to sign a statement admitting guilt, and then I would be let free. I see how easily people get screwed.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Thats a sad story mine is too I will spare you the details just don't let your experiences taint your perspective about rape in general cause it dose happen. That girl was prob a fruit loop any one who would claim such a thing with out having it actually happen to them just for attention has serious issues I never even reported mine..
Taramere Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 So in my case we did not even have sex. It was just a drunk mad woman making a claim, because she felt I was kissing another girl, and then she was afraid of going to jail. It was a VERY scary 8 days, as I was looking at 20 years in prison, and had no idea how it would turn out. That clarifies things. At least we know that you aren't just a troll throwing salt around in the hope that it'll land in a rape victim's wounds. There's a lot of controversy surrounding false rape allegations, the number of incidents where a woman says she was raped but felt unable to report it (for fear of reprisals, fear of not being believed etc). This is a subject that hurts a lot of people, male and female. As far as false rape allegations go....I can well believe that it would be easier for a near sociopathic, vengeful woman to make up a false complaint than it would be for a normal woman to raise a complaint about a genuine rape. I would think that both sides of the debate have accuracy....ie that men out there who are unfairly accused of a crime they didn't commit have been seriously scarred by that experience. That women who were raped, and failed to report it for fear of stigma and reprisals, have been left seriously scarred. On both sides this must be a lonely, horrible thing to cope with. Maybe affecting people sexually. "How should I approach women without being too "AFC" or being deemed a possible rapist?" "If I tell a partner what happened to me, might he dismiss me as a liar or someone who probably has too many post-rape issues to be worth bothering with?" Nothing drives a wedge between men and women like the subject of rape does.
AlektraClementine Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 to Boxing: I'll bet you stay away from the crazy drunk girls now too, right? There's something identifiable in their personalities that segregates them from the average women. You also know that there is a staggering number of women who don't report rape due to fear right?
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I agree.. And I feel ACTUAL rapists should be locked up for life. And yes, probably more women do not report rapes, especially date rapes, than do. And I agree it is not the calm, sane, collected woman making false accusations. But nevertheless, many of these other women are out there making false accusations. And the system seems to want a conviction more than the truth. It is not like law and order on tv. They separate you, have you sleep in freezing temperatures with a window open for a couple nights, then the prosecutor acts like your buddy. Since you are scared to death, it is easy to go along with what he suggests. And he promises all will be fine if I just sign something for the judge, and the judge is cool. If I do not sign, well then I am facing 20 years. Make your choice. Luckily I did not, and luckily the girl I was dating changed her story. She was also threatened with being jailed for making false accusations, which could have really screwed me is she succumbed to that pressure. And no, it is not always EASY for young men to tell whom is unstable or not.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 No, I would not date someone that had raped another woman 1 year or 20 years ago. There is something very fundementaly horribly wrong in the way he sees women for him to even do it one time. Other then the trust issues that are a given, there is no way I could ever respect such a man. If it was the case where he was 18 and slept with a 17 year old, that's s different situation if she had consented. It doesn't matter what the situation is. As long as its clear the female party did not consent. She could be twisted out of her mind and he just took advantage of the situation. Could be violent, could be multiple participants in the rape ie. Him and his buddies. As long as its in the "rape" category. He "just" took advantage of the situation? Like I "just" had some coffee. Wow. I don't care if she was twisted out of her mind. His actions, are not dependent on her actions. Her actions are hers alone. Do I approve that some girl let herself get that blizted? Not at all. But that is NO NO NO reason to excuse a man taking advantage of that situation. If him and his buddies did it together, that's completely henious. Because now it's not only one man, but now it's a group of men taking advantage and abusing someone in a situation that can't protect herself and not one of those men are stepping up to the plate to act like men. A friend of mine in a bar once suggested that every male draw up a pre-sex consentment contract and ask every girl to sign it before she decides to have sex with him. Interesting thought. Stupid thought. If a man is concerned with a woman later crying rape, he shouldn't be having sex with her anyway. That's called being a responsible adult. A responsible adult doesn't carry around a lame form asking women to sign it before he has sex with him. That sounds like an immature little boy. If he needs to go to the length to have a woman sign something before he does, I would think he is one very f-up individual. A recent analysis of 20 studies over the last 30 years indicates that between 31% and 57% of women have rape fantasies, and these fantasies are frequent or preferred in 9% to 17% of women. Considering that many people are ashamed to report rape fantasies, these stats are most likely lowball figures I'm sorry but are you really trying to say that women want to be raped? Do you know how disgusting a thought process that is? Have you EVER had a woman close in your life that was raped? I don't think you have otherwise you would never think that women actually wanted to be rape. Most women's fantasies about "rape" are about rough consensual sex. MOST women don't want to be "raped" in the real meaning of the word. Well, in Colorado this is not statutory rape. If somebody is 15-16 and has sex with somebody less than 10 years older than them, it's legal. So I guess everything's relative. Not defined as rape by law, but if some guy I was with told me when he was 24 he had sex with a 15-year old, I'd be so sick to my stomach. I would do. If he was 18 and she was 17, that's a different story but it's real bleeped up for a 24 year old to be getting it on with 15 year olds. What a loser.
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Well I guess that is how men and women differ. I sincerely do not understand it. If I fantasize about something, I want it to happen. I am not saying women fantasize about any Tom Dick or Harry grabbing her off the street. But it does seem they fantasize about RAPE in some form, and RAPE is far different from rough consensual sex. Yes, it is a fantasy. I am asking how women FANTASIZE about something they do not want to happen. Without changing the definition of what rape is, to some form of consensual sex. The fantasy women ANONYMOUSLY admit to is rape. Guys fantasies are typically simple. The girl they see at the bank, a friends mom, etc. They do not fantasize about raping them, or being raped.
Recommended Posts