Author mr.dream merchant Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 Okay ladies, this is a clue. Think man who most of us greatly respect. Add on extenuating circumstances... mr. dream merchant will finally tell us when everyone has said they wouldn't date a rapist, laughing wildly about how wrong we are with our quick judgement of historical events, due to a lack of information and understanding of the situation! Nope. Its not about being wrong or right.
serial muse Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Yeah? Well, I hate to quote myself, but: Just spill already. Guess what? It won't change my opinion, and I'll bet it won't change the opinion of the other female posters here.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 Yeah? Well, I hate to quote myself, but: Patience young grasshopper.
Trialbyfire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090327/ap_on_re_us/sex_offenders_bridge Does it have anything to do with this article about ostracized sex offenders?
I Luv the Chariot OH Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I wouldn't be attracted to the sort of person who would commit rape, so it's a moot point for myself.
Trialbyfire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I'm not a big believer in rehab for sex offenders and completely lack compassion for them. Anyone who would inflict themselves onto weaker individuals like women and children, end up with the consequences of their actions. Maybe this is a form of karma. You get what you give. A lifetime of emotional torture.
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I'm not a big believer in rehab for sex offenders and completely lack compassion for them. Anyone who would inflict themselves onto weaker individuals like women and children, end up with the consequences of their actions. Maybe this is a form of karma. You get what you give. A lifetime of emotional torture. I wholeheartedly agree. We should take a very narrow view of the type of sex offenders we can rehab. Most only escalate their behavior and time in prison lets them focus on how to get away with it. I know where DM is going with this. DM... I want you to know that I made that point in another thread... Specifically to show how Learning NEW info about your partner DOES change your relationship. Each new thing you learn changes things to a different direction and with a different magnitude! If I found out my GF was a prostitute before we met... I would dump her. The same would apply even if she didn't take money.
serial muse Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I see. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2105425&postcount=34 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2105540&postcount=38 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2105571&postcount=41 You gentlemen terrify me, I'll tell you that right out. You have the right not to date someone whose past you dislike, for whatever reason. But if you're honestly going to say that rape in any way compares to promiscuity - one of which is outright VIOLENCE TOWARD OTHERS and the other of which may be, at worst, violence toward oneself and at best, nothing more than liking sex with multiple WILLING partners..... :sick::sick:
MindoverMatter Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Trialbyfire: I am divided when it comes to rehab for sex offenders. I think there should be research done about how to treat somebody who has those kind of urges. Not necesarily for people who already commited it, but for those who feel the urge and fight hard not to act on them. If it works that way. I can't imagine what goes on in the head of somebody who rapes another person or a child (which is the worst).
blind_otter Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I wouldn't be attracted to the sort of person who would commit rape, so it's a moot point for myself. You'd be surprised what kind of men commit rape.
Trialbyfire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Comparing criminal violent activity to being an ineffective adult are two different beasts. That being said, everyone has a right to reject another person based on historical events.
MindoverMatter Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I think UF was trying to say that the "don't judge a person on their past" argument is flawed. You say that only in context of sex. But that's using that statement wrong. You shouldn't judge a person on their past period. Say a woman loved a man, and found out he was a rapist in his past. She'd most definitely leave him. But when a guy is disgusted in a woman for being loose sexually with numerous men, he's at fault for "judging". Its a bull**** statement. You should be allowed to judge as freely as you want. Especially when the judging is justified. You cannot put those two things in the same category. One is commiting a crime, hurting a person, possibly changing their attitude towards life and love forever and scarring them deeply. And the other is having an open set of morals, reduced bonding over sex and possibly a greater danger of getting an STD. And if you really, really think those have anything in common, and said so on a date than frankly, I wouldn't continue to date you either.
Star Gazer Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 In California, if you're an 18.1 year old BOY and have 100% consentual sex with a 17.9 year old girl, and her parents press charges, you can (and will) be convicted of statutory rape. As a result, you'll have to register yourself as a sex offender. Fun, right? That "rapist" is NOT on par with someone who's violent.
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 You cannot put those two things in the same category. One is commiting a crime, hurting a person, possibly changing their attitude towards life and love forever and scarring them deeply. And the other is having an open set of morals, reduced bonding over sex and possibly a greater danger of getting an STD. And if you really, really think those have anything in common, and said so on a date than frankly, I wouldn't continue to date you either. What is so hard for you to understand! I said... they are simply BOTH pieces of information that COULD CHANGE how you relate to the person your dating! There has never been any kind of debate over the difference in MAGNITUDE. In fact, had I enough time I would have come up with a much better analogy. One that stupid people could grasp much easier.
serial muse Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 You need to work harder at reading comprehension. That is not what was said. Don't lie about me, or misrepresent what I say! Got it!!! My, my. Temper! Comparing rape to promiscuity: Something did change. When you first meet, you know very little about one another, and as time goes you learn more and more about her as a person. This was a part of her she had hid from you. Now you have a better picture of who she is. That does change things between you two. Would she have said the same if she found out you had been to prison a few times for rape? Learning about one another does change the relationship, because it lets you understand the other person better. ...which you then applied to this thread: DM... I want you to know that I made that point in another thread... Specifically to show how Learning NEW info about your partner DOES change your relationship. Each new thing you learn changes things to a different direction and with a different magnitude! If I found out my GF was a prostitute before we met... I would dump her. The same would apply even if she didn't take money. I don't think I misunderstood you. Perhaps you think it's overstatement to say it terrifies me that you discuss the two things in the same sentence. But the fact that you don't see why that's scary is what IS scary. Calling people stupid will get you flagged. Watch it with that crap.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 Please try to keep this thread civil. I'd hate for it to be locked when I come back to form my statement. No I will not be comparing the two (rape, promiscuity).
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Comparing criminal violent activity to being an ineffective adult are two different beasts. That being said, everyone has a right to reject another person based on historical events. Yes! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! That is my point.
MindoverMatter Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Star Gazer: In California, if you're an 18.1 year old BOY and have 100% consentual sex with a 17.9 year old girl, and her parents press charges, you can (and will) be convicted of statutory rape. As a result, you'll have to register yourself as a sex offender. Fun, right? If, in a scenario, I would have a date (first or within the first 3) with a man who then confesses to me that he has a sentence as a sex offender, within those limits you just posted and he can prove to me that he has not gone beyond her wishes, that she consented to the act and that the charged were pressed by a third party, then I might consider dating him still. But honestly, without speaking to the "victim" in this scenario, I wouldn't be able to believe him comepletely. And that might be unfair, but it's better to be safe than sorry. (The same man, if he chose to lead me on,for longer than that, would be dumbed on the spot once I'd find out.)
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 My, my. Temper! I don't think I misunderstood you. Perhaps you think it's overstatement to say it terrifies me that you discuss the two things in the same sentence. But the fact that you don't see why that's scary is what IS scary. Calling people stupid will get you flagged. Watch it with that crap. I'm glad you actually posted what I said instead of trying to provide a blanket misinterpretation. It is an overstatement to say that it's terrifying to to discuss the two things in the same sentence. It's a big overstatement. I think we can both agree that it assumes an attitude or belief on my part that doesn't exist. Which is why it irritates me so much! I clearly did not call you stupid. At best I implied it through a conditional statement. Similar to "people who smoke crack" are "stupid". If you felt that you met that condition... I apologize for making the statement. So, Flag away.
You'reasian Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 It doesn't matter what the situation is. As long as its clear the female party did not consent. She could be twisted out of her mind and he just took advantage of the situation. Could be violent, could be multiple participants in the rape ie. Him and his buddies. As long as its in the "rape" category. I would look at the guy in question and his buddy, relationship with the female - then try to understand how close the two were in terms of friendship to better understand exactly what happened. Get all 3 (or more) individuals to describe what exactly took place, location of the incident - etc. I would also look at the communication between all parties, esp. electronic. It would definitely paint a better picture of the who, what, where, when, why - etc.
Citizen Erased Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 In California, if you're an 18.1 year old BOY and have 100% consentual sex with a 17.9 year old girl, and her parents press charges, you can (and will) be convicted of statutory rape. As a result, you'll have to register yourself as a sex offender. Fun, right? That "rapist" is NOT on par with someone who's violent. To me, this is not rape. And yes I would date them. Only if he could prove it of course. Other than that, no I would never.
Taramere Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Would you date a man who committed rape in his past? Let's say the man raped a woman under the circumstances Star described (the drunk college situation), faced up to what he'd done and the impact on the woman, took the consequences, took responsibility and didn't go down the "blaming the woman - she was just a whore really" route. Took action to ensure such circumstances and consequences never occurred again. And let's say I was faced with the stark choice ("you must date one of them") of dating either a man like that, or one who goes around with a head clogged up with these thoughts about my gender: Please, this sounds like one of those non-accredited College commercials "I went with blah blah blah and turned my life around!" OP your GF is a slut. Period. Never in your life EVER commit to a slut. Sluts will always be sluts. She enjoyed opening up her legs freely to various guys, okay, fine. She'll do it while she's with you. Don't let her shame you because she had a difficult past or "Oh I was going through this and that that's why I was a such a whore!" Bull****. You're a whore because you want to be. Just because you hook up with some lame ass dude who can't distinguish between a good catch and one that's been thrown back in by lots of guys, doesn't make you less disgusting than you already were. No nobody has a perfect past, but there's a very big and fat line between perfect and just plain ****ing disgusting, and the OP's GF is the latter. Ditch the broad OP, get a girl who's worth something. I'd pick the rapist.
You'reasian Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 A friend of mine in a bar once suggested that every male draw up a pre-sex consentment contract and ask every girl to sign it before she decides to have sex with him. Interesting thought. Collect more background information - where does the girl hang out? Who are her accquaintances? What is her typical behavior with the accquaintances? Same with the guy.
missdependant Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/22/masters.case/index.html Possibly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jamelske No. If you're about to compare a rapist to a girl who's slept around, I can only hope you're kidding. DUMB comparison.
boxing123 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 A recent analysis of 20 studies over the last 30 years indicates that between 31% and 57% of women have rape fantasies, and these fantasies are frequent or preferred in 9% to 17% of women. Considering that many people are ashamed to report rape fantasies, these stats are most likely lowball figures. http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/brainstorm/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies Sexual Blame Avoidance - (See my ex, above.) Women are socialized to not seek out sex lest they be considered tramps, but if they're having sex against their will they can avoid guilt. Studies comparing sexual repression to rape fantasies are mixed and overall don't support the explanation, but they may have been using wrong metrics; sexually repressed women have fewer fantasies overall but they might have a higher ratio of rape fantasies. In any case, this theory would only apply to some women. •Openness to Sexual Experience - In some ways this is the opposite of the last one, and it doesn't explain rape fantasies so much as it describes the type of person to have them. If you're sexually open, you entertain a greater variety of fantasies. As one study described rape fantasy among these women, it's "just one more expression of a generally open, positive, unrestrictive, and relatively guilt-free expression of one's sexuality." •Desirabilty - Many women like to believe that they're so attractive that men cannot resist the urge to overtake them. The evidence for this theory is suggestive but not yet conclusive. I did cover a study in Psychology Today last year indicating that women with attachment anxiety (neediness) have more sexual fantasies featuring submission. •Male Rape Culture - Some have argued that women have been conditioned to buy into men's fantasies of domination. But the prevalence of rape fantasies has not changed much in recent decades, even as gender roles have. •Biological Predisposition to Surrender - In many mammalian species, the male must pursue and subdue the female in order to mate. Women may be programmed to surrender to the successful dominant male. Just like many other theories in evolutionary psychology, this one makes sense but has not been tested empirically. (Writer Tracie Egan hints at this explanation in her essay entitled "One Rape Please (To Go)" about hiring a male prostitute to play-rape her (which I recently saw her read live): "...as a girl, my equipment can be trickier to manage, therefore I need to be a boss in the bedroom to ensure I get worked the right way. [but] it gets really tiresome always being the one in charge...") •Sympathetic Activation - The sympathetic nervous system becomes engaged in times of stress or danger, activating a fight or flight response marked by increased heart rate, respiration, pupil dilation, and genital arousal. Just like on a roller coaster, fear and excitement go hand in hand. •Adversary Transformation - In one survey of romance novels (which tend to be written by and for women), the lead female character was raped in 54%. The male heroes are usually rugged warrior types and these books may illustrate a desire to "conquer the heart of the rapist" and tame him for marriage. •Reaction to Trauma - This one is not mentioned in the paper, but Brett Kahr, a psychoanalyst who has conducted the largest survey of sexual fantasies ever, argues that most masturbatory fantasies are attempts to transform early difficult experiences into pleasure. So those who have been sexually abused may try to master their trauma by taming those experiences.
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