Loving Husband - married 12 years - all good...except for SEX

[anne1707]

Please bear with me as I have only quickly read this thread but some of the things you have said stand out to me and I do want to help - this is trying to be constructive:

 

She gets mad that once she has made it clear we are NOT having sex, I stop hugging her. She wants me to hug/cuddle and fall asleep that way. Damn it...I am horny...if I hug you, if I touch you, I want to eat you, not fall asleep.

 

If my H behaved like this then I would think that the only interest he had in me was for sex - just a body to ****. A woman needs those hugs etc to feel that her man cares. If she gets that, she will be more likely to want sex

 

The other day she made a remark, about exactly what I am not sure about anymore...but she claimed that I was only doing a certain thing because I wanted sex. I told her that in case she did not know yet, MOST of what I do is, in one way or another, to get sex.

 

 

So you are complaining because what she accuses you of doing is true! You have told her that she is an "object"

 

 

 

Just tonight I asked her how can I demonstrate to her that I am interested in her, without making a move (hence allowing her the space to make the move). Her reply: "...do we have to talk about it again?"

 

Again you have foucussed purely on your needs - your question will say to her "how can I get more sex"

 

 

Try to back off from talking about sex or making a move for sex too frequently for her (current) liking. Make her feel special, show her affection, massage her, wash her hair (heaven!), yet don't make a move on her. Actions such as these will demonstrate your love for her.

 

I know you think cooking, cleaning etc will do this but it really will not work like that. That is just the boring practical stuff that just needs to be done. It's the extras that make the difference

[soserious1]

Missing the point again!!!!! I said it as a male. We think a house cleaned to a 5 is perfect (on a 1-10 scale). Doing it to an 8 is going the extra mile. Taking the kids to activities (well beyond the 50/50 split) or playing with them so she has the chance to go to the gym or sleep in is something

we go the extra mile for. Doing a full dinner and doing dishes to your spouses specs (not yours) is going the extra mile.....

 

Quit being so hard done by. Ask a male whether they want a spotless house, a gourmet meal and absolve of mundane driving and childrens activities or sex, and most males will take the sex.

 

Get it yet!!!!

 

What I "get" is that you think your wife is some kind of whore that owes you sex on the half shell because gasp.. she expects you to actively care for the home you live in and parent the children you sired.

 

 

You don't feel you want to bother going the "ëxtra mile" then don't, stop, do

things to your satisfaction and tell your wife that if she feels strongly enough that a chore be done in a particular manner that she then can feel free to own that chore.

 

I didn't have sex 7 times in the last 3 years of my marriage

and not because I wasn't in the mood and wanted to empathize with you but you're over the top in my honest opinion.

[Lizzie60]

Hum.. that doesn't look good... methink it will NOT get better.. it will only get worst.. sorry.

 

Her libido is almost nul... she is tired.. she prioritizes everything else but sex with you...

 

I think that she's lazy.. simple.. she just doesn't care about your needs.. she's selfish when it comes to you..

 

No wonder so many MM cheats... this is exactly why they cheat... lack of sex.. lack of quality sex..

 

You kept your part in the deal.. she didn't...

 

My advice... get it outside ... everyone will be happier..

[AnthonyF]

What I "get" is that you think your wife is some kind of whore that owes you sex on the half shell because gasp.. she expects you to actively care for the home you live in and parent the children you sired.

 

 

You don't feel you want to bother going the "ëxtra mile" then don't, stop, do

things to your satisfaction and tell your wife that if she feels strongly enough that a chore be done in a particular manner that she then can feel free to own that chore.

 

I didn't have sex 7 times in the last 3 years of my marriage

and not because I wasn't in the mood and wanted to empathize with you but you're over the top in my honest opinion.

 

Again I was responding to the OP and empathizing that it is not simple. You can do all those things, have a wonderful relationship, have sex that ends in an O for both of you and things don't change. Most males are the exact opposite and all a woman has to do is say "let's have sex" and game on.

 

We are way too stoopid when it comes to women.

[CaliforniaGirl]

You look at almost everything you do/say as an action that you figures entitles you to be repaid with sex.

 

I gotta tell you I don't even know you and I'm feeling pressured just reading your posts:)

 

I agree. I'm backing off from my computer just from the aggression. Ouch.

[CaliforniaGirl]

You kept your part in the deal.. she didn't...

 

 

How do you know? How do you know his "part of the deal" didn't include a degree of romance? Or at least some type of caring that wasn't solely produced in order to get sex? How do you know that he didn't used to treat his wife as more than a barrier to attempt penetration on...you know, as a person?

 

How do you know he didn't change the terms of this "deal"?

 

Then again, cheaters always say what the opposite sex wants to hear. "Oh, I know...I TOTALLY understand...your wife doesn't understand you..." etc. So I guess that commentary was expected.

[Lizzie60]

Like you, and everyone else here.. I have to go with what I read in his original post.. Of course we only have one side but all posts are about one side of the story unless both partners are posting.

 

So, base on what I read.. I respond. you might not agree.. but this is my opinion...

 

I know, from my experience (friends, etc.) that more women than men end up not wanting sex AFTER they're married.. this is not new.. and he's certainly not the first one that this is happening.

 

I just find it amazing that women think that their husband will eventually give up their libido because they, themselves, have...

 

That they expect their husband to be loving, caring, cuddling and spooning without getting an erection.. completely insane..

 

So, from what I read.. she's not doing her part of the deal.. and in her case, it's not like she has to handle her career, plus the kids, the house, etc... she is a SAHM... .. so she has the 'obligation' to take care of his needs.. just as much as she cares for the kids.. He takes care of the financial aspect.. plus the kids, plus the house..

[CaliforniaGirl]

 

I know, from my experience (friends, etc.) that more women than men end up not wanting sex AFTER they're married.. this is not new.. and he's certainly not the first one that this is happening.

 

Then surely at least some of your friends have also enlightened you to the fact that more men than women get FAR less romantic and pay FAR less attention once they get married compared to the courting stage. Which could have at least something to do with a woman "turning off" over time. No? Yes, we know (as far as the OP's comments go) that he does dishes and helps take care of the kids. Those are no more romantic to a woman than they are sexy to a man when the woman does them. Should she feel "entitled" to high romance if she does X amount of dishes? Aren't those chores actually duties, and both parties are responsible for them...rather than up for a big "bonus" for doing them?

 

As far as responding to what you know...I agree. Me too. However, as you've demonstrated here, you're not ONLY going on what the OP said. You're going on personal experience (i.e. with your friends). So am I. Yet you said he IS holding up his part of the "deal," not having a clue what their original deal ever was. That's why I pointed that out.

 

Yep. We each have our own opinions, and that's what an internet forum is for; I agree with you.

[AnthonyF]

I am pulling the little hair I have out. You don't get it. The OP says he is doing his fair share if not more, bringing in a good salary, taking personal care of himself, being romantic, her sexual organs work and still is lost.

 

This has nothing to do with expecting or the wife being a whore or whatever other crap you post. He is at a loss at what is happening. Maybe a bit heavy handed in his comments (as was I), but we have no idea as to what we can do. Heck counseling has gotten them nowhere.

 

The responses from a few females has been all too common in that they basically tell us to get lost, we are full of crap, pulling our weight (or more) is not sexy and will not get you in the mood.

 

Thanks for no help.....

[cachaca]

I am not sure why I never did this before...posting my thoughts on a public forum has been liberating.

 

I am taking no offense from the posters (mostly female) who have attacked me and insinuated that I am expecting my wife to behave like a whore (I pay bills, you open legs).

 

Gosh, I am summing up 12 years of marriage in to a few lines of text. I am pasting highlights, major pain points, and you fine folks are responding to these major symptoms.

 

- I have re-read my posts and yes...it does seem like I am extremely heavy handed in demanding sex. I just told the wife that I will not ask for sex for at least 60 days. I will continue to love and care for her, but when night time comes, I will kiss, hug and cuddle, and happily fall asleep with her in my arms.

 

- Some posters have encouraged me to have an extra-marital affair, or just get sex outside the marriage. I won't do it.

 

- To those who questioned her liking the "oral" sex...she likes it, and climaxes consistently.

 

- to JamesM: you may be right on. I love and care for her, but as long as my desire for sex is this great, she assumes that all I want is her "hole", as opposed to her Whole.

 

- KK715: your description is frankly exactly how I feel, and it coming from a woman has a deeper impact for me. Thank you.

 

- AnthonyF: "Told my spouse if she wants me to stop bothering her for sex she should put on 40 pounds (being brutally frank)" - pretty funny. The analogous version should read: "If I was not interested in you, I would treat you like ****, screw around, be a neglectful husband, and grow a pot belly". Your answers/comments almost make me feel like you are/have been in a similar situation. You understand that feeling of being lost...of not knowing WTF is going on..."what the heck am I doing wrong here, why won't she have sex with me...I am good to her, etc...and yet, I get a big fat NO when I ask for sex....when I ask WHY NO, I get a lecture about the pressure of sex, and a Good Night, it is late and I need to get up early". I hear ya. I just gotta find a way out of this rut.

 

- Mom07: there were times in our 12 years where I was the one with low libido. At the time, I was self employed. The stress of the business is huge...on a monthly basis I was concerned with my ability to provide for my family..now and in the future. Looking back now, it had nothing to do with my libido (I continued to masturbate throughout). I now work for a large company, make a good salary, and have that stonewall behind me. Trying to put all those years in a few lines is tough...feel free to send me a PM, I will expand on what happened in those years...it may be of assistance to you.

 

- pkn06002: Thank you.

 

- soserious1: I know you mean well, but I think you are reading my "highlights" and assuming that there is nothing else. We have a happy day-to-day. We laugh together, play Scrabble, decide on what's for dinner together, etc. We get along very well. And while I make no mystery of my desire to have sex, I am not unreasonable or insensitive. But she does not try to reason with me, nor shows me that sex is bad for her. * I think that if we met, or had a longer conversation, you would see that I care for her, and not just for the sex. I appreciate your comments though.

 

- anne1707: it is hard for me to "hide" my sexual needs. I am taking your advice to heart though. I already massage her, and do other things to make her feel special. I offer to massage her 2-3 days a week. I even say: "...don't worry, I won't ask for sex, I just want you to fall asleep relaxed, you have had a long day..." She generally ignores the offer. (my eyes began watering just from typing that...the feeling of rejection bubbling up again)

 

- Lizzie60: thank you for the vote of confidence. I am being careful not to smear my wife, and to tell a fair story. I have already pointed my wife to this thread, given my degree of confidence that she won't argue the main points of my posts.

 

- CaliforniaGirl: are you my wife pretending to be a poster? Just kidding. Your attitude is basically my wife's. I am taking it to heart along with the rest of the good advice I have received. I do consider myself romantic, and given the chance, I would do more romantic things with her. I frankly just feel very frustrated. It seems that nothing I do...NOTHING...results in a more intense sexual response from her. Dude...wouldn't I like to be JUMPED now and again (kids in bed, house taken care of, etc). I would do whatever she asked of me...anything...if it meant having a more enjoyable sexual experience. I am open and ready...but as I wait for the magic recipe, I continue horny, making the conversation always skew toward WHEN as opposed to HOW. I would like it if you would try to step to the other side for a bit, and try to see the world from my perspective. Horny as hell, unwilling to have an extra-marital affair, and not satisfied with self-masturbation. What am I supposed to do? Find medication to suppress my libido? Regardless... I really appreciated your comment, thank you for taking the time to post.

 

- JamesM: Thank you...you may be spot on.

[cachaca]

Please bear with me as I have only quickly read this thread but some of the things you have said stand out to me and I do want to help - this is trying to be constructive:

 

 

 

If my H behaved like this then I would think that the only interest he had in me was for sex - just a body to ****. A woman needs those hugs etc to feel that her man cares. If she gets that, she will be more likely to want sex

 

This does not happen everyday. If I had to lay out a schedule, it would happen 2-5 days after our last sexual activity. Being the smart cookie that I am, I give it a few days, and wait for a day when we seem to be clicking particularly well. I then pop the question, and get a NO... I feel powerless, unable to get sex, in spite of all my acts leading up to it. When the NO comes out, it is irreversible. I feel betrayed, unloved, and unfairly treated...and hence the back-turning.

 

Beyond turning my back on her, I have grown used to simply getting up and leaving the bedroom. I may go masturbate, watch the dumb-down machine (TV), take a small swig of a drink, or a combination of the 3. Within 20-30 minutes I am back in bed. She is already out, and I am left crying myself to sleep.

 

Again...not every day...this is probably once a week, and rarely more than 2 weeks in a row.

[giotto]

ah, the pressure, the pressure... exactly your situation... went on for 14 years and we are finally divorcing now... unfortunately, if you want my opinion, it will never change and it will get worse. To be honest, I don't think she loves you. You can back off, if you want, but your wife will be relieved for that, she will bury her head even deeper in the sand. She doesn't want to deal with the side of the marriage she doesn't like. Your wife has some deep issues and doesn't seem like she is prepared to solve them... I would get out very quickly... find a woman who really loves you.

[AnthonyF]

I really am sorry. As you said, we are very similar, only I am older and though I thought I am perpetually horny, certainly not as much as I thought reading this site;).

 

All I can say is you are right to shut up and not ask for sex, (no need to have put a 60 day time frame on it).

 

There is no answer at this time except to do everything you are doing now, spend time together, joke laugh and see if non-confrontationally you can talk about it in snippets. By that I mean laugh about it. Explain how you are better off then your friends or other people. Talk about other people's relationship and see whether your's is better off. My spouse and I joke and laugh that we are doing pretty well for 23 years.

 

Remember too you have young children that require time and effort. As they grow hopefully you will have more time together.

 

I know where you are all too well but I am not as lost or upset because frankly very few in my group of friends (outlined in another post) do I think are having constant great sex. How do I know, little comments here and there and the fact many are happy to be out, play golf, stay later for drinks, play hockey or squash.... rather then running home for sex. So yes misery loves company.

 

Does your wife have many friends or sisters? Ask her whether they discuss sex or how much they are having. Draw out conversation talking about the issue, not expecting or forcing it. Do it while shopping or driving, not at home when it can lead to "the talk" or "I want to have it out right now".

 

When you do reach the point of no return unfortunately you may have to ask her "do you love me?" or "what do you expect of this marriage?".

 

I have asked my spouse and there is no answer..... "I don't get it, can you not give up reading a chapter or can we tape the show and have sex instead?".

 

Tell you the joke we have. I ask her if she wants to have sex before we go to sleep. She says no and then I tell her that if she changes her mid to wake me. The response is "OK". We laugh because I realize we will have sex, not as often as I like, it will be good and life will go on. I also joke early in the day when things are good that I have "plans" or tonight's "date night" whether anything happens or not.

 

I hope your situation is like mine where we do love each other and it is not that your wife "does not love you" as others have intimated.

 

I'm rambling, but the point is, you are right, stop obsessing in front of her or moping and play it day to day.

 

Good luck

[manugeorge]

This is so unfair, the insinuation that a man is somehow out of line by desiring sexual intimacy with his wife. I mean, it's just botherline cruel. SEX IS PART OF MARRIAGE!!!, oy!. It is part and parcel of the deal, you don't get the ring, the ceremony, the house, the kids, the emotional maintenance, the support, the love and then somehow think that sex shouldn't be included in that.

 

How dare he? he wants to have sex with his wife, imagine the audacity of that expectation:rolleyes:. Nooo, she can't show him that kind of love, not without him plucking the sun out of the sky everyday and presenting it to her. How incredibly self-centered.

 

OP, I really feel for you and all the other men who've been made to feel like they are commiting a crime by desiring sexual intimacy. My heart breaks for you.

 

And then when you go out and cheat, somebody cries foul. All the while conveniently ignoring the neglect you've been put through. No wonder women get such a bad rap.

[Lizzie60]

Well said Manu ... you elequently put what I tried to say in my post #28.

[manugeorge]

Thank you Lizzie,

 

I mean, I'm actually flattered when my SO hounds me for sex. Even though I don't always give in. The fact that after all these years, seeing me naked still makes him giggly like a teenage boy, makes ME feel incredibly sexy. You know you still got it when you hair is in a scarf, pimple cream on your face, baggy pyjamas and all, and he still won't keep his hands off you. Not to talk of the days when you do actually put some effort into your appearance and he acts like someone just wrote him a check for a million dollars. I mean how does that not make ANYONE feel like they are hottest thing since slice bread?

 

But ofcourse the bitter cynical women will say "oh he just sees you as a hole". Yeah ok, that is why he married you, has children with you, is kind and loving towards you. Please!

[GorillaTheater]

This is so unfair, the insinuation that a man is somehow out of line by desiring sexual intimacy with his wife. I mean, it's just botherline cruel. SEX IS PART OF MARRIAGE!!!, oy!. It is part and parcel of the deal, you don't get the ring, the ceremony, the house, the kids, the emotional maintenance, the support, the love and then somehow think that sex shouldn't be included in that.

 

How dare he? he wants to have sex with his wife, imagine the audacity of that expectation:rolleyes:. Nooo, she can't show him that kind of love, not without him plucking the sun out of the sky everyday and presenting it to her. How incredibly self-centered.

 

OP, I really feel for you and all the other men who've been made to feel like they are commiting a crime by desiring sexual intimacy. My heart breaks for you.

 

And then when you go out and cheat, somebody cries foul. All the while conveniently ignoring the neglect you've been put through. No wonder women get such a bad rap.

 

Very, very well said.

 

The only thing I would add is to pose this question (generally, it's certainly not directed at Manu):

 

If sex is no big deal (and to certain people, may even be a "negative" aspect) within a marriage, why does it become such a big deal if taken outside of a marriage?

 

I hate cheating, but it would be interesting to get an answer from "withholders".

[AnthonyF]

For your comments. I am really taken aback by a few posters who I have upset with my caveman posts trying to ask serious questions, while trying to be somewhat humourous (or so I thought).

 

The response was and I think more to my posts then to the OP what I view women as just holes.

 

Again I am completely flummoxed and lost as to what they are upset about or how I offended them.

 

Again I will state any male who does more then 50% of the work around the house expects it to be noticed and to be rewarded (saying this as we are neanderthals). Our idea of a reward is different then a woman's (who may expect or hope for a spa day, flowers, dinner out....). Often we expect sex (and I mean mutually satisfying sex)....

 

Again this is a stoopid male talking.

[manugeorge]

AnthonyF. I think the issue stems from using sex as some barter/reward system to begin with. It's such an archaic way of thinking and it ruins intimacy in a marriage.

 

When we relegate something so tender and so loving to a silly and cheap "what have you done for me lately"? exchange. It just makes the whole thing feel dirty..and not in a good way.

 

I know this is the curse of our society and the idea of sex as reward has been passed down from generations to generations, if only we can find a way to change that line of thinking. And start to rightfully think of sex as a pleasurable bonding experience between two people who claim to love each other.

 

A woman who goes into a relationship/marriage thinking of sex as currency will ALWAYS flog you with deprivation every chance she gets. Unfortunately, these are mostly women who never bothered to discover their own sexuality.

[JamesM]

The only thing I would add is to pose this question (generally, it's certainly not directed at Manu):

 

If sex is no big deal (and to certain people, may even be a "negative" aspect) within a marriage, why does it become such a big deal if taken outside of a marriage?

 

I hate cheating, but it would be interesting to get an answer from "withholders".

 

Excellent question and one I have posed many times.

 

And never have I seen a good answer.

 

Responses will range from indignation to sex is not a right to "is that all that women are to you?"

 

So...how is withholding any different than cheating..except one involves another person?

 

One is when a person has sex with someone else and not with the partner, and the other is when one does not have sex with someone else nor the partner.

 

The marriage vow states that we remain faithful to each other. This implies that sex will be enjoyed mutually by both. When one withholds sex, then he or she has reneged on the vow made...just as someone who has sex outside of that partnership.

 

Both are being unfaithful to the vow made.

[angie2443]

For your comments. I am really taken aback by a few posters who I have upset with my caveman posts trying to ask serious questions, while trying to be somewhat humourous (or so I thought).

 

The response was and I think more to my posts then to the OP what I view women as just holes.

 

Again I am completely flummoxed and lost as to what they are upset about or how I offended them.

 

Again I will state any male who does more then 50% of the work around the house expects it to be noticed and to be rewarded (saying this as we are neanderthals). Our idea of a reward is different then a woman's (who may expect or hope for a spa day, flowers, dinner out....). Often we expect sex (and I mean mutually satisfying sex)....

 

Again this is a stoopid male talking.

 

There are many, many days that I do more than 50% of the work at home (kids, cleaning, managing the marriage, etc) and I don't expect to be rewarded. As long as it doesn't become one sided for too long, I do what needs to be done. So does my husband. If it does become one sided, we discuss the issue and resolve it. We don't come up with some crazy barter system in which he gives me flowers, or what ever it is women are supposed to want, and so I do the dishes.

[AnthonyF]

AnthonyF. I think the issue stems from using sex as some barter/reward system to begin with. It's such an archaic way of thinking and it ruins intimacy in a marriage.

 

When we relegate something so tender and so loving to a silly and cheap "what have you done for me lately"? exchange. It just makes the whole thing feel dirty..and not in a good way.

 

I know this is the curse of our society and the idea of sex as reward has been passed down from generations to generations, if only we can find a way to change that line of thinking. And start to rightfully think of sex as a pleasurable bonding experience between two people who claim to love each other.

 

A woman who goes into a relationship/marriage thinking of sex as currency will ALWAYS flog you with deprivation every chance she gets. Unfortunately, these are mostly women who never bothered to discover their own sexuality.

 

I don't disagree at all..... I am just pointing out a male's (may be only me and the OP) pov. We tick off everything we have done, we gauge how the day/weekend/week has gone and then hope it leads to sex.

 

How many times are we told that foreplay begins well before you hit the bedroom???? Well that to me is all the little things done that I have pointed out. If I could be a boor and only turn it on once we get into bed, would I be an a**hole????

 

How many posts and comments are there about the allure of the Bad Boy and why us men are pissed off by it???

[pkn06002]

 

If sex is no big deal (and to certain people, may even be a "negative" aspect) within a marriage, why does it become such a big deal if taken outside of a marriage?

 

This is an interesting point.

 

I wonder because it really is all about power and control.

[kakui215]

AnthonyF.

A woman who goes into a relationship/marriage thinking of sex as currency will ALWAYS flog you with deprivation every chance she gets. Unfortunately, these are mostly women who never bothered to discover their own sexuality.

 

Yes! I think that's a very good point! My wife of 15+ years is similar to the OP -- no matter what I do, she just has little to no interest in sex. I've tried so many different things (especially over the past 3 years), but what really gets me is her lack of concern and effort (even to figure out what our issues are) coupled with her uncommunicativeness. Trying to get her to tell me what she wants and expects from me is like pulling teeth! When she feels I'm screwing up and disappointing her, I want her to say something -- instead, she just goes back into her fortress and says "NO".

 

She's from Japan, a place that has some really warped attitudes when it comes to intimacy (emotional and physical) and where sex continues to be regarded as something for men. To the extent that some Japanese women are sexual, it is for the sake of men, not themselves, and many married women, especially those with children (we have 4), become almost asexual, figuring that their husbands can just go elsewhere for sex. My wife once responded to me, "Passion?! But we're married... with kids! Of course we can't have that sort of thing!" In her mind, passionless marriages with little attention to sex (or even to any sort of affection or intimacy in general) are the norm. Instead of trying to figure it out and rectify it (something that isn't a problem, I her view, but just part of life, we need to accept that. She's often viewed my not wanting to accept that as a sort of selfishness since she doesn't see a close, intimate relationship and a healthy, active sex life as something that would be good for her too.

 

Well, at least her comment about passion was one time I got her to talk! I can understand the OP's frustration: trying everything you can, then failing, ... then trying again, and again failing, ... then trying again, etc. -- all the while getting "NO" and little to no effort on her part to tell you what's wrong or even to figure out the problem. Instead, we are met with a denial that there is any problem other than a husband wanting to have fulfilling sexual experiences with his wife...!

[manugeorge]

This is an interesting point.

 

I wonder because it really is all about power and control.

 

A lot of times, it does have to do with power and control. I'm a woman and I will readily admit that we women can just be as full of sh*t as men. Our incredible selfishness and sense of entitlement sometimes can be appaling and we will rationalize our actions to the end of the earth.