BubblyPopcorn Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 "Honey, I know I said I wanted to come over and help you with yard work today, but I changed my mind and really just want to relax until I go to the concert tonight. I love you and I'll see you later, babe. I miss you and we will spend time together, soon, hon." I think what you've described would be considered a myth. It’s like him saying to his friends he can’t go out because he has to stay home and do the dishes.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Ok - getting a little miffed here. I have said many many times throughout this thread that what I am mad at, is the lie. Which he has since admitted to. I feel like some of you aren't really reading this thread. I don't expect my boyfriend to work for me. I was and am so appreciative of what he did with my back porch. It's one of my favorite places to be and he beautified it for me. I didn't even ask him to. It was wonderful. I am not upset because he didn't come and rake up leaves with me. I am upset because he lied to me. I don't lie to him and I expect the same in return. Just because someone loves me doesn't me that they are capable of handling a mature, adult relationship. I'm not saying that he's going to get dumped, I am saying that I have to evaluate. So does he.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Would it kill you to defer the reaction until you've sorted out the cause? The bolded text basically says "well he deserved it." My entire point is that you're deciding he deserved the reaction before you even know the whole story. Not only that, but that thought process gives YOU absolute decisive power over what is fair and what is not. You see where I'm going with this? Let me ask you this. If he is allowed to be disingenuous on a whim to get out of doing something, you're telling me I should temper myself. No, it wouldn't kill me. Of course it wouldn't. And in fact, I did not confront him about his lie until the day after.
boxing123 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Well you keep adding more info..However, men lie for a reason. If you are honest with many women, they can be complete babies. "Hey I do not want to help you rake leaves anymore " does not go over well with most women. As in your first post you are already miffed as you mentioned "I have been doing yard work for 3 days straight", as though that is his, or someone elses problem. Secondly, when is the last time you spent 3 days , or an entire weekend slaving away at his place?(I am sure you might say you do this all the time now). But the point is men are often doing for women much more than women do for them. So you are not in the position to have to spend you weekends helping him, so you never need to make an excuse.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Well you keep adding more info..However, men lie for a reason. If you are honest with many women, they can be complete babies. "Hey I do not want to help you rake leaves anymore " does not go over well with most women. As in your first post you are already miffed as you mentioned "I have been doing yard work for 3 days straight", as though that is his, or someone elses problem. Secondly, when is the last time you spent 3 days , or an entire weekend slaving away at his place?(I am sure you might say you do this all the time now). But the point is men are often doing for women much more than women do for them. So you are not in the position to have to spend you weekends helping him, so you never need to make an excuse. and women in turn, feel lied to. it doesn't help with the trust in a relationship. You're right. I'll take that. I have thought a lot about this and I know that I must work on being able to take the truth better. Unfortunately, he doesn't give me much opportunity to do so by lying. It adds another layer to peel away to resolve an issue. I'm not a naggy or incensed type of angry person. More quiet than anything. As a matter of fact, I recently helped him move. Hauled stuff. Unloaded. Helped him clean his former apt. That's not the issue though. We give and take like this often and I don't expect him to do my yard work with or for me. The fact is, he offered and seemed excited about it. I didn't ask. Then he bailed. In a smarmy way. I'm having trouble getting past the smarmyness of it.
Els Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Well you keep adding more info... That's not true. She already said in her opening post that it was the fact that he lied that got to her. You didn't read the FIRST post properly before you replied (too eager to start your woman-rant, I assume), and you didn't EVEN admit it and make the effort to read it properly when she pointed that out. Sorry, don't have much to say about the situation except I'd be very miffed too. Lying is lying. I just sympathize with the OP over how many people missed her point, I've had plenty of people do that to me as well and then insist that they're right.
Phateless Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Let me ask you this. If he is allowed to be disingenuous on a whim to get out of doing something, you're telling me I should temper myself. No, it wouldn't kill me. Of course it wouldn't. And in fact, I did not confront him about his lie until the day after. So it's your job to discipline him? I think you're putting him in that role of being childish just as much as he is putting himself there.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 So it's your job to discipline him? I think you're putting him in that role of being childish just as much as he is putting himself there. Not at all. But what I get from you is that I should bear the burden of temperament and accountability while he should be understood for being frightened of telling the truth. Perhaps "allowed" is a poor choice of words. I just mean that for every action there is a reaction. If his action is to be deceitful, why should I then be asked to first understand his motives and act accordingly? That's coddling. Which is another child-rearing technique. ps - I am enjoying this discussion and I hope you don't think me terribly argumentative. I enjoy healthy debate and trust me, your advice isn't lost on me
boxing123 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Ok, you want to know what I think? Dump him. He is leaving for a week, and concocts a story in which he is sick, (you did say he admitted lying), basically so he does not even have to touch you. Not even a hug or kiss, HELLO!! He is not into you. A guy who was into you would be trying to have sex with you, especially since he is leaving for a week. You admitted he is helpful, right? So he does not seem adverse to helping you. He lost interest. Now I know, this is where you say "I know my boyfriend loves me" and the thread goes in circles until everyone unanimously agrees that : A. Your boyfriend is very into you B. He is 100% wrong C. It is all chalked up to being childish/lying.. But of course he is 100% into you.
Phateless Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Not at all. But what I get from you is that I should bear the burden of temperament and accountability while he should be understood for being frightened of telling the truth. Perhaps "allowed" is a poor choice of words. I just mean that for every action there is a reaction. If his action is to be deceitful, why should I then be asked to first understand his motives and act accordingly? That's coddling. Which is another child-rearing technique. ps - I am enjoying this discussion and I hope you don't think me terribly argumentative. I enjoy healthy debate and trust me, your advice isn't lost on me I'm saying that to take the first step to change the dynamic, YES, it's your responsibility, but only because you can't tell him to do it first. You can agree to do it simultaneously though. My point is that he may have decided through experience that telling a truth you won't like results in a discussion that is much more of a pain in the butt than it's worth. Maybe you weren't receptive to a truth you didn't like in the first place? He may have decided "screw it, this is easier." You follow?
loveslife Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I'm saying that to take the first step to change the dynamic, YES, it's your responsibility, but only because you can't tell him to do it first. You can agree to do it simultaneously though. My point is that he may have decided through experience that telling a truth you won't like results in a discussion that is much more of a pain in the butt than it's worth. Maybe you weren't receptive to a truth you didn't like in the first place? He may have decided "screw it, this is easier." You follow? Honestly, I do think the OP will make this discussion go round and round in circles until she can convince everyone that he is 100% wrong but still also 100% into her. One thing I have learned is it takes two people to be in a relationship. And it's never just one person's fault. Oh well.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Ok, you want to know what I think? Dump him. He is leaving for a week, and concocts a story in which he is sick, (you did say he admitted lying), basically so he does not even have to touch you. Not even a hug or kiss, HELLO!! He is not into you. A guy who was into you would be trying to have sex with you, especially since he is leaving for a week. You admitted he is helpful, right? So he does not seem adverse to helping you. He lost interest. Now I know, this is where you say "I know my boyfriend loves me" and the thread goes in circles until everyone unanimously agrees that : A. Your boyfriend is very into you B. He is 100% wrong C. It is all chalked up to being childish/lying.. But of course he is 100% into you. Why are you even interested in this thread? OK - I'll take a crack at your post: I'm not going to profess his love to me for him. Let's pretend that he doesn't love me and is no longer into me, as you say. So what? He can go. Of course it would hurt because I love him. Would I get over it? Yes. My goal here is to have a happy and healthy relationship with someone who loves me. If said person tells a lie, I'm going to call him out for it. As I would expect the same in return. If the truth is revealed that he is distancing himself from me and feeling uncomfortable about being straight with me, I'm going to get to the bottom of it. Again, he can leave.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 I'm saying that to take the first step to change the dynamic, YES, it's your responsibility, but only because you can't tell him to do it first. You can agree to do it simultaneously though. My point is that he may have decided through experience that telling a truth you won't like results in a discussion that is much more of a pain in the butt than it's worth. Maybe you weren't receptive to a truth you didn't like in the first place? He may have decided "screw it, this is easier." You follow? Absolutely. Which is why I hope to make it clear to him when he comes back that I will make every effort to be understanding of the truth if he makes every effort to be genuine. I totally get you.
boxing123 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Either he is a huge dramatic flake..Concocting a story so he does not have to even touch you, or simply hates helping that much that he will pass on sex with a woman he is completely into.. Or, he is not into to you, which would explain why he does not even want to touch you, but is excited to go out to a bar with his bro at night. I do not know the guy. But most guys would NEVER pretend to be sick so they do not have to touch their girlfriend.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Either he is a huge dramatic flake..Concocting a story so he does not have to even touch you, or simply hates helping that much that he will pass on sex with a woman he is completely into.. Or, he is not into to you, which would explain why he does not even want to touch you, but is excited to go out to a bar with his bro at night. I do not know the guy. But most guys would NEVER pretend to be sick so they do not have to touch their girlfriend. Agreed. Most men wouldn't. I think dynamics change throughout the course of the relationship though and we've been together a while. The sex is still pretty awesome so I hesitate to think he's turned off. But he could be... He did stop by yesterday before his trip unexpectedly with a "I am not leaving town without seeing you" purpose. My gut tells me this was all born out of laziness. We shall see though. I'm ready for anything.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 So anyway - thanks to everyone who responded. I really do appreciate getting a lot of feedback from you menfolk. It's helpful and it does assist in taming my womanly scorned feeling and has prompted a bit more empathy.
Phateless Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 So anyway - thanks to everyone who responded. I really do appreciate getting a lot of feedback from you menfolk. It's helpful and it does assist in taming my womanly scorned feeling and has prompted a bit more empathy. Glad to hear it. Now if only this conversation would be so easy with my own gf, lol.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Well that's the trouble with having feelings for someone. It gets in the way of logic. You and I have no feelings for each other so it's easy for us to "talk it out". Role play if you will. Maybe you could try reasoning with her the way you have reasoned with me. Same goes for me and my dude. Best of luck to you!
Cherished Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I feel badly for you that you have never been with a decent man. I think what you've described would be considered a myth. It’s like him saying to his friends he can’t go out because he has to stay home and do the dishes.
Cherished Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 How long have you been dating like this? Is he ready to take it to the next level (engagement complete with a ring, and setting the date for the wedding?) If it has been quite a long time and there is no indication of going to the next level, I would move on. I think that is the real issue here. if you're happy with things as they are (going nowhere, living apart with no commitment), however, then you have no room to complain or be upset.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 How long have you been dating like this? Is he ready to take it to the next level (engagement complete with a ring, and setting the date for the wedding?) If it has been quite a long time and there is no indication of going to the next level, I would move on. I think that is the real issue here. if you're happy with things as they are (going nowhere, living apart with no commitment), however, then you have no room to complain or be upset. We've been together for over a year. Yes, we are talking about marriage. The subject is new as in we've only been discussing marriage for a month or two. He wants to propose complete with a ring. He says that he wants to surprise me and "sweep me off my feet", so I've no clue as to when that's coming. We have agreed that we both want to be married and we have agreed that there are some important factors involved such as finances, lifestyle, etc. My hesitation at this point is making sure he is ready for marriage and not just trying to avoid losing me. I think that's why I have gotten so hung up on the little things lately. Any woman will say that it's very important that the man she marries, be reliable. I'm no different.
BubblyPopcorn Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I feel badly for you that you have never been with a decent man. I wasn’t attacking what you said. Rather trying to defuse (and for the record, my first boyfriend was a “decent” man, so no need to feel sorry for me). I understand the OP is upset and she has every right to be mad for being lied to. But I don't think this one action alone on his part warrants a conclusion as to whether or not he is a "decent" man. OP perhaps it would be helpful for you to know why he felt there was a need to lie about it in the first place. Do you feel it could be reflective of his character as a whole, reflective of your reaction to him, what exactly?
boxing123 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Agreed. Most men wouldn't. I think dynamics change throughout the course of the relationship though and we've been together a while. The sex is still pretty awesome so I hesitate to think he's turned off. But he could be... He did stop by yesterday before his trip unexpectedly with a "I am not leaving town without seeing you" purpose. My gut tells me this was all born out of laziness. We shall see though. I'm ready for anything. AHH.. OK, So the guy fixed your home for 3 days, but then was so incredibly lazy the next weekend that he resisted his manly urges to kiss and hug you, and concocted this story about having a sore throat, so that he could get out of raking leaves, and also a good excuse not to kiss and hug you.. Yes, that is pathetic. Obviously he is very into you as you added that he stopped over the next day to say goodbye. So it now boils down to he is a liar, and lazy. Not good marriage material.
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 AHH.. OK, So the guy fixed your home for 3 days, but then was so incredibly lazy the next weekend that he resisted his manly urges to kiss and hug you, and concocted this story about having a sore throat, so that he could get out of raking leaves, and also a good excuse not to kiss and hug you.. Yes, that is pathetic. Obviously he is very into you as you added that he stopped over the next day to say goodbye. So it now boils down to he is a liar, and lazy. Not good marriage material. Listen dude, you clearly have an agenda here. That's fine. You are very hung up on this "resisting his manly urges" thing. It's not that I'm hell bent on making you wrong. It's just that your thinking is very 1 dimensional. I don't know what will happen with my relationship. Apparently you do. So we'll see. Out of curiosity, and you don't have to answer this because it's really none of my business but are you in a relationship? If so, for how long? How old are you?
Author AlektraClementine Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 OP perhaps it would be helpful for you to know why he felt there was a need to lie about it in the first place. Do you feel it could be reflective of his character as a whole, reflective of your reaction to him, what exactly? Not sure really. I've never really gotten mad at him for telling the truth. I do however, have very rigid standards that I expect can be kind of a pain to deal with. I don't intend to change my standards. But I can see how I might come across as a bit of a hall monitor sometimes. I don't like that about myself and I intend to try and change that. This goes for all relationships in my life. Not just the romantic ones. The other possibility that you mentioned (that this is part of him) is entirely viable. He's never told any serious lies but he does tend to tell little fibs. Only recently have I started actually saying "ok buddy. that was a lie and you know it." So this may take some time to change as I have enabled it for a long time now. Or it may never change. I just don't know right now.
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