What generates even the most basic level of interest?

[Lights]

One way I change my mood is to act as if I am in a good mood even if I'm not. That means smile and laugh, even if you have to watch a funny movie every night in order to get in the habit of laughing. Be friendly to everyone, even if they're not attractive or female or close to your age. Children make me happy so I tend to tune into them when I see them. Pick up the posture even when gravity is getting you down. Eye contact. And work out--it's def a mood lifter. Another suggestion--B vitamins are the cheapest chemical way to lift your mood and focus better.

I'll check what my posture is next time I'm out and around.

Eye contact isn't happening, as I mentioned. (I don't really know what to do about that.)

I do work out most nights. I'll look into the vitamins thing.

Thanks, Stepka.

 

And sometimes it's just plain hard, but my guess is that you're not unattractive physically, just tend to be morose and people ignore those who are not twinkling. Women esp are drawn to men with a good sense of humor--it would be less than worthless to only pick up and smile just when you see a pretty lady. This is advice from a formerly morose person so I know what I'm talking about--it's a change that takes time but is worth cultivating b/c loneliness is hell.

 

I don't know if I'm unattractive physically. (I just cannot believe I could possibly be this unattractive.)

 

I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the info.

 

Glad you're feeling better.

 

Where are you trying to get such responses?

 

In any cafe or street or such, 50% of the women might be unavailable, 20% might have just been too preoccupied or in a rush to notice you, you might not be 'the right type' to 20%, etc...

 

Honestly, I never knew that it was the norm for flirtatious signals to be returned. When a guy whom I don't know does that for no reason whatsoever when I just happen to walk past him... correct, I ignore him, even when I was available. Then again, all those who tried such methods happened to be of the middle-aged variety who promptly went right on to the next woman behind me...

 

Why not go to someplace (rock-climbing club? book club? I dunno...) where there are people with similar interests to start REAL conversations with?

 

I meant most places. (The most recent situations [or lacks thereof] have been in bookstores in shopping malls, at the gym, and very occasionally in a coffee shop or on the street when visiting a major city.) Where I come from there aren't really any places where women go specifically to meet men. (Before some naif goes off about nightlife, I'm sad to say nightlife in my area is for getting drunk with existing friends, not for meeting new people.)

 

The meet-through-activities route is something I've had to do before. It's not worthwhile at all IMO except for the lucky few people who have interests that are attractive to the attractive sex (My professional field is "masculine" and I'm "cursed" with particularly masculine personal interests, so as a result my daily life is extremely guy-heavy and I cannot expect to meet women in the so-called "natural" manners).

 

Important, but nothing compared to a confident sexual state. OP, watch Swingers and listen to Vince Vaughn.

I don't know what a confident sexual state is, but I haven't ever developed a confident sexual anything. How is it done?

 

Any success I had during my single days was all due to humor and showing a woman that she is going to have a fun time with me.. even if at the end of the evening there isn't a romantic connection you can be assured that she had a blast and laughed her ass off to boot..

How does one use humor if no one even recognizes one's existence?

[Lights]

It does not seem to stop!

 

I've been trying to check my posture at times (but I've so far only been able to do that when actively thinking about it, and usually that's when I'm temporarily not moving or actively doing something, so if posture happens to be the issue it's possible that I'm still leaving it incorrect for longer than I'm correcting it, but I can't prove anything at this time).

 

I'll keep watching for this for now.

 

I really want to stop banging my head on the proverbial wall!

 

It's driving me out of my mind! I just don't see why I'm being treated like this. A damned schoolchild can get the sorts of minimal results I'm currently looking for, and I don't see my social skills as being inferior to a child's. Not like I'm being given any chance to use them, though...

 

More and more I feel sickened by this entire region and its people, and yet I can't seem to escape it nor gain sufficient force to teach it how to treat me.

[Lights]

If anyone else could help me, it'd be very much appreciated. I'm being blocked off completely, and am apparently powerless to find out why. It's really hurting.

[stepka]

Lights, have you thought of going to a counselor to see if there's anything you can do? They can help you see what you may be doing wrong and how you're relating to people--we can't see you so can't possibly tell you what you may be doing wrong. Counselors can do a lot, and you may have a free service thru the company you work for.

[tkgirl]

Lights, if women used to respond and don't now and you're pretty sure that you didn't get shorter by 5 inches or get ugly really fast, then chances are that your confidence is slipping and that you're depressed about the situation. I've noticed that when I'm in a good and confident mood, the world smiles at me, but when I'm depressed or cranky, the world frowns back. Watch your posture during these times b/c that's the first thing to go, and bad posture projects a very unattractive image that screams at least 10 years older. Have you heard the one about "Act as if. . ." and you will be. Pretend that you're happy and pick up your posture and grin like you've got a big secret and my guess is that things will pick up again. (This pep talk is for me too--I've been feeling very unattractive lately--it goes in cycles.)

 

 

exactly! being happy and confident are very attractive... but being TRULY happy, to the point that you might come off as not caring if some bimbo smiles back or not... very intriguing too!

[Trialbyfire]

Lights, I rarely post in your threads anymore because it never does any good beyond having you post another and another and another of the same types of threads over the years.

 

You're not a stupid guy so why aren't you learning anything or taking anyone else's advice?

 

So many people keep telling you the same thing. One of the major ways to meet women is having some form of contact with them. To have contact, you have to get into an environment where there are women, where they can get to know you, as opposed to the random meet on the street which isn't going to work for you. You're not the confident guy that can put a woman at ease who you've just met. Accept that it's not someone you are. Who knows? If you can get yourself out of this negativity loop, maybe you could become that guy, sometime in the future. For now, that kind of desire is just an exercise in futility.

 

As suggested umpteen billion times, go find yourself some new hobbies that give you exposure to women. If you work in an all male environment, have solely male hobbies and don't socialize in large groups, you have to generate opportunities.

 

Edit - to add to that, stop being so self-focused and start focusing externally. Watch what other men do, who seem to get women to talk to them, not in a negative way by being an arsehole but making women laugh and relax around you. There's no concrete way to connect with women because every woman can be slightly different, just like every man can be different. Get your empathy going.

[You'reasian]

It does not seem to stop!

 

I've been trying to check my posture at times (but I've so far only been able to do that when actively thinking about it, and usually that's when I'm temporarily not moving or actively doing something, so if posture happens to be the issue it's possible that I'm still leaving it incorrect for longer than I'm correcting it, but I can't prove anything at this time).

 

I'll keep watching for this for now.

 

I really want to stop banging my head on the proverbial wall!

 

It's driving me out of my mind! I just don't see why I'm being treated like this. A damned schoolchild can get the sorts of minimal results I'm currently looking for, and I don't see my social skills as being inferior to a child's. Not like I'm being given any chance to use them, though...

 

More and more I feel sickened by this entire region and its people, and yet I can't seem to escape it nor gain sufficient force to teach it how to treat me.

 

You talk like a physicist lol

[Lights]

Lights, have you thought of going to a counselor to see if there's anything you can do? They can help you see what you may be doing wrong and how you're relating to people--we can't see you so can't possibly tell you what you may be doing wrong. Counselors can do a lot, and you may have a free service thru the company you work for.

 

I'll see what I can do...

 

exactly! being happy and confident are very attractive... but being TRULY happy, to the point that you might come off as not caring if some bimbo smiles back or not... very intriguing too!

Well, ideally, as you point out, the reaction of one bimbo shouldn't be a big deal. It's when the problem is with damned near everyone that things go to hell...

 

Lights, I rarely post in your threads anymore because it never does any good beyond having you post another and another and another of the same types of threads over the years.

 

You're not a stupid guy so why aren't you learning anything or taking anyone else's advice?

 

If I think about it that way I can't say I blame you. Regrettably, my life does not change. It's painful...

 

The reason I've been avoiding taking the "hobby approach" or "group approach" again is because I've been there already. Few people here seem to realize that spending time doing things one is not interested in just because there are members of the attractive sex there will only bring one boredom (and over time, anger). I'm sad to say I've been dumb enough to have been there before, several times.

 

The reason I'm not learning anything over time is because interaction attempts do not yield any information at all. It's not like anyone speaks up and tells me "Get real. If you had done [whatever], then maybe I would have considered talking to you." or "Sorry, I don't date guys who [whatever]", or "Hey you in the black! I'd come up and ask you out for some coffee, but you don't seem to [whatever]."

 

Sometimes I could almost wish for a "Lights, you're fscking repulsive" or "Lights, you're fscking boring as schit" because then at least I'd understand why it's all gone so wrong...

 

Accept that it's not someone you are. Who knows? If you can get yourself out of this negativity loop, maybe you could become that guy, sometime in the future.

I actually didn't think of it that way. Inspirational, in a way, I guess. Thanks.

 

Edit - to add to that, stop being so self-focused and start focusing externally. Watch what other men do, who seem to get women to talk to them, not in a negative way by being an arsehole but making women laugh and relax around you. There's no concrete way to connect with women because every woman can be slightly different, just like every man can be different. Get your empathy going.

 

I've tried this at times when such observation has been possible, but what's extremely painful is that I don't see them do anything that I don't do; they just get treated better.

Or is there a specific trick to identifying what they do?

 

 

I'm going to go cry now. I really can't think about this further for now.

[You'reasian]

Once you are with the right women in the best environment for you, it'll come together.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Don't involve yourself in hobbies that are boring to you. What are you interested in? What makes you happy? Let that lead you....

[tkgirl]

why make it so complicated? quit trying to figure everything out... instead, focus on things that make YOU happy... once you are truly happy on the inside, people will want to be around you more. Right now it's like you do not even like yourself, how do you expect others to like you? especially if you feel so "angry" a lot of the time on top of it. You just need to snap out of it... and get out there and start enjoying life.. don't question it.. just do it!

[D-Lish]

Have you found your true passion in life? That thing that makes you happy and electric?

 

You have to figure out what makes you tick- what gives you pleasure and meaning within yourself first.

 

You're never going to attain validation via a relationship with a woman.

Get it going on with yourself first- then a partner will be a compatible adendum.

[Lights]

Have you found your true passion in life? That thing that makes you happy and electric?

 

You have to figure out what makes you tick- what gives you pleasure and meaning within yourself first.

 

You're never going to attain validation via a relationship with a woman.

Get it going on with yourself first- then a partner will be a compatible adendum.

 

No, I haven't found my true passion in life. But I'm not entirely sure how that applies; a schoolchild might get someone to talk with him and to go on a date with him, and I doubt at that age he would know what his true passion in life is.

 

What validation are you referring to? If you mean validation of one's ability to actually attract women at all, I suppose it need not progress as far as a relationship (and in doing so tie oneself and another into a potentially unhealthy relationship if that's what you're saying), but a track record of actually being able to attract them would be a quite good piece of evidence. I can agree that a relationship won't solve my problems, though.

 

Once you are with the right women in the best environment for you' date=' it'll come together.[/quote']

 

That's a nice ideal, I suppose. In the interim before that materializes, I'd also like to be able to have a lot of fun with the "wrong" ones too. A college student on his spring break would care little about "the right women" and "the best environment" while he's successfully bagging a different chick every night.

 

Right now it's like you do not even like yourself, how do you expect others to like you? especially if you feel so "angry" a lot of the time on top of it.

Can't be helped. No one enjoys years upon years of meaningless failures that do not even teach any lessons.

 

You just need to snap out of it... and get out there and start enjoying life.. don't question it.. just do it!

Yes, I'll just "snap out of" more than a decade of almost total rejection and start somehow enjoying it instead.

 

Don't involve yourself in hobbies that are boring to you. What are you interested in? What makes you happy? Let that lead you....

Yeah, that's mainly what I do. I learned that lesson long ago.

[LostLamb]

I'm still waiting to find out his height , tall men are sexy:)

[Trimmer]

Have you found your true passion in life? That thing that makes you happy and electric?

 

You have to figure out what makes you tick- what gives you pleasure and meaning within yourself first.

 

You're never going to attain validation via a relationship with a woman.

Get it going on with yourself first- then a partner will be a compatible adendum.

I second this. You may well be in a vicious cycle - you feel beaten on due to a lack of success with social interactions, so your self-image suffers, which makes successful social interactions even less likely, which just loops back around to continue the negative spiral.

 

What did you think of the suggestion to go see a counselor and discuss some of this with a person who can see you, face to face, and interact with you personally? I know I've suggested something along these lines to you in the past... We can go around and around, trying to read and understand you from typed text, but I think we will just continue to go in circles. There's really nothing fundamentally new in the questions we ask: are you dressed well? Do you feel confident? Where are you trying to make contact? Do you get (and give) smiles and eye contact first? ... and so on.

 

The questions and the answers and the advice are still pretty much the same as they were last year and the year before that, when you were trying to "communicate to a culture," or "eradicate rude rejections," or were just feeling plain miserable and frustrated with your job and your life.

 

If doing the same thing isn't helping, consider doing something different.

 

Have you considered some counseling?

[stepka]

It strikes me too that we're dealing with depression here. Uh, what a sad place to be, but it can be helped--don't be ashamed, I take meds for my ADD and I"m a much happier person. The meds have actually improved my social skills, so it's possible that you may get treated for an underying problem and see a similar improvement.

[Lights]

I second this. You may well be in a vicious cycle - you feel beaten on due to a lack of success with social interactions, so your self-image suffers, which makes successful social interactions even less likely, which just loops back around to continue the negative spiral.

This is exactly what has always been happening.

 

The questions and the answers and the advice are still pretty much the same as they were last year and the year before that, when you were trying to "communicate to a culture," or "eradicate rude rejections," or were just feeling plain miserable and frustrated with your job and your life.

I'd have to disagree here; those issues in those threads were respectively more about hypocrisy, respect, and job frustration.

 

Have you considered some counseling?

 

It strikes me too that we're dealing with depression here. Uh, what a sad place to be, but it can be helped--don't be ashamed, I take meds for my ADD and I"m a much happier person. The meds have actually improved my social skills, so it's possible that you may get treated for an underying problem and see a similar improvement.

 

I've been doing what I can with that...

[tkgirl]

Yes, I'll just "snap out of" more than a decade of almost total rejection and start somehow enjoying it instead.

 

I realize that's probably sounds like the lamest advice to you... like you can just "snap out" of something... but then again, why not? WHY NOT just change your attitude about life, WHY NOT be happy? Just quit dwelling on the bad stuff.. it is only bringing you more down and then brings everyone else around you down too. Seriously, nobody wants to be around negative energy like that...

 

I really think it's time you quit trying to find the answers on here... if you even are doing that anymore.. seems to me this is just a place for you to rant. Anyways, my only advice to you now is seek some serious counseling, maybe get on some meds... or whatever! Live is too short...

[Trimmer]

I'd have to disagree here; those issues in those threads were respectively more about hypocrisy, respect, and job frustration.

All situations - like the one currently under discussion - in which you allow the stimuli, inputs, and responses you get (or don't get) from your environment and those around you to deeply affect your happiness, your confidence, your hope, your sense of power over your life, and your sense of who you are. Big picture here, I'm talking big picture.

 

I've been doing what I can with that...

That's a non-answer. What does that mean? Have you sought counseling, or any kind of professional help where a real human being sits in the same room and you talk honestly and openly about your life, and what is and isn't working for you?

[Trialbyfire]

Lights, finding excuses or excusing behaviour isn't going to change anything for you. Being trapped with minimal interests is also a self-made prison. If there are no interests in common, what will you discuss with someone who gives you the least bit of attention? Yourself?

[Lights]

All situations - like the one currently under discussion - in which you allow the stimuli, inputs, and responses you get (or don't get) from your environment and those around you to deeply affect your happiness, your confidence, your hope, your sense of power over your life, and your sense of who you are. Big picture here, I'm talking big picture.

 

I could be terse and respond with just one word: "Allow"? But I don't feel like being terse. If the "stimuli, inputs, and responses" all chronically indicate things that totally crush confidence, hope, and so on, what's left? Avoiding the evidence by living a life of self-delusion?

 

That's a non-answer. What does that mean? Have you sought counseling, or any kind of professional help where a real human being sits in the same room and you talk honestly and openly about your life, and what is and isn't working for you?

If you're really that interested in the answer to that, I've sent you a PM.

 

Lights, finding excuses or excusing behaviour isn't going to change anything for you. Being trapped with minimal interests is also a self-made prison. If there are no interests in common, what will you discuss with someone who gives you the least bit of attention? Yourself?

 

Those weren't excuses. You asked why I never learn anything. I told you why. I'd definitely change that if I could, but I don't know how to.

 

As for what to discuss, that would depend on what I am looking to accomplish with the given person. If I am looking to pick up the person on the spot for a fling, I'd be unlikely to bother to mention that I spent, say, a given Tuesday night at the gym or a given Wednesday night at the library. In other situations, though, I suppose common interests would be a more important consideration as you point out.

[Lights]

Damn it all to hell...

 

I don't know if there's anything left to do.

[Lights]

I did finally once again get someone to actually respond to a hi today.

 

I have no idea what I did right that time that I had been doing wrong all these past times, though, so rather than learning from the relative positive experience I ended up merely dodging another potential slash to the ego.

 

Are there any ways to get actual useful feedback from experiences, so I can know more about what I do right and what I do wrong?

[spiracles]

hold up. are you just going up to random people and saying "hi"? i mean, it's one thing if you are smiling and bubbly, that's just annoying. but if you're channeling the gloomy, morose vibe you got going on, that is straight up creepy. seriously. but you could try this: the next time something good happens in your life - say you get a promotion or bench 315 or ace a final - when you're feeling good about yourself, and dare i say, feeling a glimmer of pride, see if that changes how people react to you. of course, the bigger question is why the **** you even care what some random jack*** thinks about you. they don't even know you dude. you don't need their approval.

[Lights]

hold up. are you just going up to random people and saying "hi"? i mean, it's one thing if you are smiling and bubbly, that's just annoying. but if you're channeling the gloomy, morose vibe you got going on, that is straight up creepy. seriously.

It can vary. This last time was quite random, and it happened to actually get a response back; I was in another area helping a friend move some stuff outside, and a cute woman passed by on the sidewalk as I was moving by. Just said hi, and she actually said hi back as she walked by. Not like I was in a position to have a social conversation (in the middle of moving some stuff), but at least it's a good change. Though I do fear it may be merely statistical noise, rather than something resulting from real improved skill on my part or from reduced hostility from the local culture.

 

of course, the bigger question is why the **** you even care what some random jack*** thinks about you. they don't even know you dude. you don't need their approval.

 

Because, no matter how independent-minded one is, it does matter what other people, even if they're jackasses, think about one. If no one in one's range of operations views one as being dateable, one will be dateless whether one likes it or not. So yes, if being viewed as dateable constitutes "approval", then yes, I do need "approval"--otherwise I remain dateless by force of circumstance, like it or not.