dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I was listening to the radio during work this morning, and they were doing a call in about lying/cheating. One girl said... "If you have to lie about something that has to do with the opposite sex to your SO, then you're cheating." She backed that up by saying that by lying you obviously feel your doing something wrong. Another called in saying, "Sometimes it's okay lie because you want to spare your SO's feelings, if it's something that will make them feel bad, even if you didn't actually do anything wrong". My personal opinion is to just always be up front and honest. Because even if you aren't doing anything wrong, by hiding it, you come across like you are, and could possibly in the future.
northstar1 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I was listening to the radio during work this morning, and they were doing a call in about lying/cheating. One girl said... "If you have to lie about something that has to do with the opposite sex to your SO, then you're cheating." She backed that up by saying that by lying you obviously feel your doing something wrong. Another called in saying, "Sometimes it's okay lie because you want to spare your SO's feelings, if it's something that will make them feel bad, even if you didn't actually do anything wrong". My personal opinion is to just always be up front and honest. Because even if you aren't doing anything wrong, by hiding it, you come across like you are, and could possibly in the future. Sadly a lot of people lie to avoid confrontation and honesty. Or they rationalize things as not being that big a deal. Is there a fine line? I had a friend whose gf went out for coffee with an ex, just as 'friends', as they hadn't talked in a few years. She didn't tell him. He was very angry and felt betrayed, not because she was actually cheating, but rather the secrecy of it.
voldigicam Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 That's a good question. Seems to cut to the very nature of relationships. We've inherited a world where ownership seems part of relationship, and contracts. We're in a transition where the nature of relationships seems changing. In past times, wives tacitly accepted their husbands would have outside love interests, and pretended not to know. Husbands actually "owned" their wives in many ways. Now, who knows? The norm is broken. Few people are willing to negotiate or renegotiate the "rules." Most women want that fairy tale. Some don't. And so on. So I'm no longer sure what constitutes cheating. I must say that an occasional trip to a hooker doesn't pose nearly the real risk to a relationship that developing an intimate non-sexual relationship with someone not committed to your primary relationship does. Oddly, it's possible to have a confidant highly committed to your primary relationship, while maintaining a great deal of intimacy. Rare. I've had a couple of profoundly helpful and quite naughty, in a matter of fact way, coaches and friends. The flip side - I've had one intensely disruptive friend who turned out to be behind much weirdness. So what on earth is cheating? IMing with a friend suggesting I try XYZ with my SO so she can orgasm more easily? Meeting that friend for a drink and laughing? Getting a hug from that friend? Where' the line? I don't know any more. I'm pretty sure getting a cabin for a weekend and screwing the whole time would count as cheating, but I'm not otherwise sure where cheatng begins! I'm finding the very term less and less useful
serial muse Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I must say that an occasional trip to a hooker doesn't pose nearly the real risk to a relationship that developing an intimate non-sexual relationship with someone not committed to your primary relationship does. Possibly true, but they both suck. Having glanced at a few of your threads, I'd certainly feel like what you're doing is cheating, voldigicam - but I think the point is that if your partner's okay with it, then it's ok. I agree with the idea that lying is generally (although not always!) a good indicator of cheating behavior. The tricky thing is that it isn't always true - sometimes I think people do lie because their partners really are overly controlling about who they can see or talk to and they just don't want/aren't able to deal with it. To me, that indicates a much deeper problem in the relationship - contributed to by both people - but it doesn't constitute cheating.
Author dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 I can sort of understand the point of lying because there's a controlling person in the relationship (not saying it's healthy, just why they would lie), however, I think it some cases, the person who is controlling is doing it for a reason. Perhaps they know they've been lied to before by their SO. I'd never want to be lied to. Honesty is a huge thing for me, and lies send up red flags in my book. Because, if you get lied to, how are you suppose to know to believe them in the future?
mr.dream merchant Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I was listening to the radio during work this morning, and they were doing a call in about lying/cheating. One girl said... "If you have to lie about something that has to do with the opposite sex to your SO, then you're cheating." She backed that up by saying that by lying you obviously feel your doing something wrong. Another called in saying, "Sometimes it's okay lie because you want to spare your SO's feelings, if it's something that will make them feel bad, even if you didn't actually do anything wrong". My personal opinion is to just always be up front and honest. Because even if you aren't doing anything wrong, by hiding it, you come across like you are, and could possibly in the future. I agree with you. If you lie about something, it could really open up a can of worms. Sooner or later you'll have to lie about the lie, then lie for the lie about the lie, and so on....just be honest, and if you have to, sugar coat it.
Trialbyfire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Couples need to define their own boundaries of what constitutes cheating. Lying or deception is unacceptable and before anyone starts the rationalization argument that everyone lies or deceives, your conscience if you have one, will tell you where to draw the line. If your partner is overly controlling, then why are you with this partner? Conflict avoidance is very different from conflict resolution or de-escalation.
Author dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Couples need to define their own boundaries of what constitutes cheating. Lying or deception is unacceptable and before anyone starts the rationalization argument that everyone lies or deceives, your conscience if you have one, will tell you where to draw the line. Isn't it amazing, though, how everyone's conscience draws the line at a different point?
Trialbyfire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Isn't it amazing, though, how everyone's conscience draws the line at a different point? That's why it's important that couples draw the line themselves, in that they have honest discussions about where the line is. For some couples, like swingers, they're on one end of the spectrum. For some couples like my SO and myself, we have a pretty intolerant line for what constitutes cheating. Compared to other couples though, our line is pretty tolerant. Also, don't confuse conscience with rationalizations. I think a lot of people rationalize away their conscience.
Author dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 That's why it's important that couples draw the line themselves, in that they have honest discussions about where the line is. For some couples, like swingers, they're on one end of the spectrum. For some couples like my SO and myself, we have a pretty intolerant line for what constitutes cheating. Compared to other couples though, our line is pretty tolerant. Also, don't confuse conscience with rationalizations. I think a lot of people rationalize away their conscience. Very true. I think that the excuse "Well I didn't want to hurt you" is more of a rationalization. I never really thought to have this talk with any of my SO's. I didn't put much thought into it like this because I just don't lie. I stay honest.
Trialbyfire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Very true. I think that the excuse "Well I didn't want to hurt you" is more of a rationalization. I never really thought to have this talk with any of my SO's. I didn't put much thought into it like this because I just don't lie. I stay honest. Yes because it's more like "I wanted to do this but didn't want you to find out because then, you'd be pissed off at me, maybe even walk". It's a way to avoid the consequences for actions taken. When you have this type of discussion, you can keep the discussion at the back of your mind as to what your partner supposedly "believes" in. It's a great way to match words to action, to see if what he says, is how he acts. If the two don't jive relatively consistently, you know he's either full of it or has malleable core values. Either way, someone prone to rationalizing away their conscience, since the internal strength isn't there.
Author dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Yes because it's more like "I wanted to do this but didn't want you to find out because then, you'd be pissed off at me, maybe even walk". It's a way to avoid the consequences for actions taken. When you have this type of discussion, you can keep the discussion at the back of your mind as to what your partner supposedly "believes" in. It's a great way to match words to action, to see if what he says, is how he acts. If the two don't jive relatively consistently, you know he's either full of it or has malleable core values. Either way, someone prone to rationalizing away their conscience, since the internal strength isn't there. If two people have a different view on what is appropriate, do you think it's a bad match, or still can be a good relationship?
Trialbyfire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 If two people have a different view on what is appropriate, do you think it's a bad match, or still can be a good relationship? If both won't budge to some form of acceptable middle-ground and each roll-over for certain issues, if necessary, then you're asking for serious trouble in the future.
Author dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 If both won't budge to some form of acceptable middle-ground and each roll-over for certain issues, if necessary, then you're asking for serious trouble in the future. Agreed. I wonder if/when I should have this talk with my honey.
serial muse Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 If two people have a different view on what is appropriate, do you think it's a bad match, or still can be a good relationship? What TBF said. If someone's too stubborn to be willing to see their partner's point of view, there's a serious problem. And the flip side is that there are some people who are just very uncomfortable with confrontation in any form, even when it can ultimately lead to better understanding. How well two people can negotiate their differences and respect each other's viewpoints is, I guess, a better indicator of a good match than perhaps initially different perceptions of where the line should be.
Trialbyfire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 dreamergirl, we did it almost right away, since the perfect opportunity came up when we were discussing our ex-spouses. As you probably know, I divorced my ex-H due to his cheating, so we took the convo from there and...organically...grew our boundaries!
Author dreamergrl Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Well I don't really have anything to branch it off of like that. I also don't want him getting the wrong idea, like I'm accusing him of lying. It's been a little over a month since we started dating. I'm sure there's other topics I'd be curious to know where he stands on.
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 My personal opinion is to just always be up front and honest. Because even if you aren't doing anything wrong, by hiding it, you come across like you are, and could possibly in the future. And, You are right! If you can't say or do it in front of your SO... it's wrong.
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