JerseyShortie Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I can't help but think that men do make less time and effort to persue women today. For a million different reasons. The internet for one, now everyone just makes a "profile" and "tries" to connect with people but there doesn't seem to be any real effort or connection going on. So many options it presents that no one seems to want to focus on one person. Also for the internet, porn. I think more men probably just take the easy outlet instead of putting in the effort it takes to engage a real women and risk the rejection. Porn is great because it's all about what men want and need and lets face it, real women don't live up to it. Do you think men approach women in public today more or less then 20 years ago? And do you think men put in as much effort, or even want to anymore, to have a relationship? Guys? Do you not put the effort in anymore ? Or do you only put in the effort when it's for easy sex? Are women this worthless to men now-a-days? I am sadly beginning to think that is the case. I just don't see guys pursuing women in public or asking women out. Girls? What say you? Do you think there is a decline in how men engage with real women? I am not an unattractive girl but I can't seem to get a real connection with a guy going for over a year now when my last relationship ended. Guys just seem so tuned out to wanting to put the effort in and not having the expectations that I am only there to provide him with sex.
boxing123 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Well you ladies now are "sexually liberated". So it is easy for guys to have sex. Also you do not cook. A primary motivator for men to get married young, used to be sex.. Now young women do NOT want to get married. They want school, work, career, etc. So, they can't offer much BUT sex.
Alan430 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I can't help but think that men do make less time and effort to persue women today. For a million different reasons. The internet for one, now everyone just makes a "profile" and "tries" to connect with people but there doesn't seem to be any real effort or connection going on. So many options it presents that no one seems to want to focus on one person. Also for the internet, porn. I think more men probably just take the easy outlet instead of putting in the effort it takes to engage a real women and risk the rejection. Porn is great because it's all about what men want and need and lets face it, real women don't live up to it. Do you think men approach women in public today more or less then 20 years ago? And do you think men put in as much effort, or even want to anymore, to have a relationship? Guys? Do you not put the effort in anymore ? Or do you only put in the effort when it's for easy sex? Are women this worthless to men now-a-days? I am sadly beginning to think that is the case. I just don't see guys pursuing women in public or asking women out. Girls? What say you? Do you think there is a decline in how men engage with real women? I am not an unattractive girl but I can't seem to get a real connection with a guy going for over a year now when my last relationship ended. Guys just seem so tuned out to wanting to put the effort in and not having the expectations that I am only there to provide him with sex. The Dynamics have changed too much. Women are not longer as they once were. When i met an old fashioned woman like that i will pursue the hell outta her.
tanbark813 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 The internet for one, now everyone just makes a "profile" and "tries" to connect with people but there doesn't seem to be any real effort or connection going on. Internet dating definitely requires effort. By no means is it the easy route, it's just another way of approaching things. Guys? Do you not put the effort in anymore ? Or do you only put in the effort when it's for easy sex? I definitely put in effort and I know other guys do as well. It's not easy to keep you people happy. Are women this worthless to men now-a-days? I am sadly beginning to think that is the case. I just don't see guys pursuing women in public or asking women out. Men still pursue women or ask them out more than the other way around? How often do you ask a man out? If it's infrequent, does that mean you consider men worthless? I am not an unattractive girl but I can't seem to get a real connection with a guy going for over a year now when my last relationship ended. This isn't meant as a slam but I think your opinion of men has much to do with that. A man generally isn't going to want to spend time with a woman who has so little an opinion of him/his gender.
carhill Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Look around for the guys who are out in the world and are pursuing women in real life. There's the answer Before meeting my wife, I traveled halfway around the world to do just that. All this internet stuff is just a bunch of electrons. Relationships are forged in the flesh. My dad was an accountant and my mom was a men's clothier when they met. He just kept buying suits
You'reasian Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I can't help but think that men do make less time and effort to persue women today. For a million different reasons. The internet for one, now everyone just makes a "profile" and "tries" to connect with people but there doesn't seem to be any real effort or connection going on. So many options it presents that no one seems to want to focus on one person.. Women are sometimes wishy washy about whom they like in the first place or game playing - because of this, a guy who is a great catch is just going to sit back and let the women chase him. And in many cases, it works. Also for the internet, porn. I think more men probably just take the easy outlet instead of putting in the effort it takes to engage a real women and risk the rejection. Porn is great because it's all about what men want and need and lets face it, real women don't live up to it. Females look at porn too and there's nothing wrong with this. Do you think men approach women in public today more or less then 20 years ago? And do you think men put in as much effort, or even want to anymore, to have a relationship? Guys? Do you not put the effort in anymore ? Or do you only put in the effort when it's for easy sex? Are women this worthless to men now-a-days? I am sadly beginning to think that is the case. I just don't see guys pursuing women in public or asking women out. Girls? What say you? Do you think there is a decline in how men engage with real women?. I've learned to put in less effort into the dating scene in general. Why? Because its not rewarding and I can find better things to do with my free time. Add to it, many women in their mid to late 20's to early 30's (my approximate dating pool) have already experienced marriage and have no desire to be in one for a while, which still makes for great dating. One of the advantages of being *friendzoned* is that you get valuable information about women and why marriages fail, which is wisdom learned. I am not an unattractive girl but I can't seem to get a real connection with a guy going for over a year now when my last relationship ended. Guys just seem so tuned out to wanting to put the effort in and not having the expectations that I am only there to provide him with sex. Sorry to hear this, JerseyShortie.
clv0116 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Are women this worthless to men now-a-days? I am sadly beginning to think that is the case. I just don't see guys pursuing women in public or asking women out. Oh I chased one down in a mall just the other day she was swift little gazelle, but it's often the case the young ones are too fleet of foot for an old duffer like me. Particularly the slim hot ones. Sigh. Seriously. I ask women out if I fancy them; I pursue them. Women sure as heck don't ask men out very often. How about you go out and show your equality by approaching a few gents tomorrow?
samspade Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 We don't do the same things our fathers did; neither do they do the same things THEIR fathers did. Courtship is a much easier process these days. I'm not sure what you mean by "effort," but if it's writing sonnets and carving sculptures, I think you're living in the wrong epoch. I agree that there is no substitute for a face-to-face approach, and that there is something passive about finding women on dating sites. But I don't think there has been a generational drop in men going after women aggressively and with gusto. Modern American women are in a MUCH better position to select their mates, so the smart male knows when to give up the pursuit and move on. I can't speak for everyone here, but if there isn't interest early on (including clear sexual attraction), I'm not putting in effort when I know there won't be any real return on investment - not when there are plenty of other women out there. In this sense, guys who put lots of "effort" toward women who are clearly not interested in them are wasting their time.
boxing123 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 If you are a guy whom pursues, then you are quickly labeled a "stalker" as we live in this feminized society.(Believe it or not, stalking actually works as I have friends that are happily married from what could be called "stalking") If you comment a woman on her looks, that might be creepy, or you can get sued/lose your job.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I have to give my last three serious boyfriends credit for putting forth a LOT of effort to win me over and to meet my needs and keep me happy during the relationship. Ultimately, those relationships didn't work out for various reasons, but I definitely don't think it's because they weren't trying. I think in all cases, both of us were busting our butts to make it work. Personally, I think one of the most serious negative effects on male-female relationships caused by modern societal trends is the illusion that there's always something better around the corner. Of course, some women are susceptible to this idea, but I think men, in general, are much more likely to be influenced by the notion. The airbrushing/photoshopping, rampant plastic surgery, fake hair/boobs/eye color/etc. in the media and porn create an illusion of near-perfection/fantasy woman that I believe makes men less satisfied with real women. Women sense this, and overall it degrades the happiness of both parties.
Brady_to_Moss Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 If you are a guy whom pursues, then you are quickly labeled a "stalker" as we live in this feminized society.(Believe it or not, stalking actually works as I have friends that are happily married from what could be called "stalking") If you comment a woman on her looks, that might be creepy, or you can get sued/lose your job. Its true. I just dont even try to purse anymore. I am just going to live life and see who pops up. If someone interesting comes into my life, then i will take advantage. If not...no biggie.
Author JerseyShortie Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Well you ladies now are "sexually liberated". So it is easy for guys to have sex. Also you do not cook. A primary motivator for men to get married young, used to be sex.. Now young women do NOT want to get married. They want school, work, career, etc. So, they can't offer much BUT sex. Boxing, you forget that men don't want to support women like they once did. We have to go to school and get jobs so that we can survive. And we are able to work, have careers and offer more then just sex. Thanks though for your high opinion of us. Females look at porn too and there's nothing wrong with this. I am not getting into a dicussion about porn being good or not. The fact I presented had nothing to do with that. It had to do with relating that alot of men probably turn to porn instead of looking for something real. I definitely put in effort and I know other guys do as well. It's not easy to keep you people happy. Well, that's probably true...you people aren't any easier. Men still pursue women or ask them out more than the other way around? How often do you ask a man out? If it's infrequent, does that mean you consider men worthless? I don't ask men out because I have never once had a promising experience with it. Guys say they like it in theory but I don't think guys take women seriously that take the first step in reality. And that didn't really answer my question Tanbark but I think you understood it differently then how I meant it. This isn't meant as a slam but I think your opinion of men has much to do with that. A man generally isn't going to want to spend time with a woman who has so little an opinion of him/his gender. Well, ironically, if you really read any of my posts, you would see that I think it's men that seem to have little opinion about women. Seriously read the comments around here about women, trying to view it from a female perspective and it's like we don't even have a chance with you men. Look around for the guys who are out in the world and are pursuing women in real life. There's the answer That's the answer to what? That's exactly my point is that I don't see men pursuing women and I think the way society is today is the reasons why with the computer and internet. Oh I chased one down in a mall just the other day she was swift little gazelle, but it's often the case the young ones are too fleet of foot for an old duffer like me. Particularly the slim hot ones. Sigh. You're lowly opinion of women doesn't need to be put in this thread.
Kamille Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 My experience doesn't match what you describe at all and I'm kind of concerned that you feel this way, especially when you say I am not an unattractive girl but I can't seem to get a real connection with a guy going for over a year now when my last relationship ended. Guys just seem so tuned out to wanting to put the effort in and not having the expectations that I am only there to provide him with sex. Is it at all possible that this is not the result of who men are but of how you approach them? I don't know the details of your last relationship, but could your perception of men be jaded because of this? Or perhaps perhaps because of LS and its resident women-bashers? You might be creating a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby since you expect men do disappoint you, they invariably do. No matter what, I like you Jersey and I would much prefer you didn't feel this way. Personally? The more I mature and feel secure with who I am, the more I love men. I'm not sure what you mean by 'making an effort' for, the way I see it, men will return the amount of "effort" I put into things. And usually, it's not so much effort as playfulness. They smile, I smile. They approach, I engage with them. They don't all pursue further, but those who do usually come up with great fun plans.
confused_2008 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I'm definitely willing to put in the effort for a relationship. The problem is, there's a lot of fickle women and it gets draining trying to 'persue' anything. Believe me, I'm young enough to not be bitter yet (thank god! ) but it's still frustrating. It sounds weird but I blame the internet, text messaging, social networking, etc. for this. I've said this before, but people do too much communication through facebook (and I guess myspace which I don't do). It's flighty communication and feels so impersonal. Same thing with texts. Nothing but pixels on a screen... I think this is fundamentally changing the way people communicate, and not for the better. It's easier for both men and women to flake on each other. Look how many people get dumped through texts! Ridiculous! And I'm not talking someone you've been on two dates with, but relationships that have lasted months. I've got a buddy that texts his girlfriend constantly. I mean like over 100 texts a day. What they talk about could all be accomplished in a 10 minute phone call. I mean seriously, 5000 texts a month? So yes, I agree there's a major disconnect going on. It's everybody's fault and up to the individuals involved to change things for the better. Next time you have something to say to the guy/girl you're interested in, give that personal a call instead of a text message or writing on a damn facebook wall. Oh and for the rest of your post, guys aren't all looking for easy sex. I know I'm not. And as far as porn goes, that's bull. We all know porn is nothing like the connection with a woman, so don't even bring that up.
You'reasian Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 The airbrushing/photoshopping, rampant plastic surgery, fake hair/boobs/eye color/etc. in the media and porn create an illusion of near-perfection/fantasy woman that I believe makes men less satisfied with real women. Women sense this, and overall it degrades the happiness of both parties. None of my girlfriends have had fake boobs - boob size is generally proportionate to the woman's body type and I've found all kinds of body types attractive, because it wasn't just a physical attraction. Does that make sense?
tanbark813 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Well, ironically, if you really read any of my posts, you would see that I think it's men that seem to have little opinion about women. Seriously read the comments around here about women, trying to view it from a female perspective and it's like we don't even have a chance with you men. I've been around LS for years and if there's one thing you can count on here, it's a variety of opinions. There are certainly some negative comments about women, but there are also positive ones. Similarly, there are the man-haters here, and those who love men. It's like that thread about if guys like "easy" girls. You posted that women are damned if they do, damned if they don't but there was a wide range of opinions posted. LS, and especially entire genders, aren't that one-dimensional.
You'reasian Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I don't ask men out because I have never once had a promising experience with it. . You just came up with one of many possible answers to your own question - just insert women instead of men.
sb129 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 My H made a huge effort when we first got together (via internet dating). We both did. The internet was simply a tool that got us to meet in person, we didn't use it for much else. We made alot of time for eachother and put in alot of effort to get to know eachother and our friends and families. His proposal was very traditional- he saved up for a ring, went out and chose it all by himself and asked not only my dad for my hand in marriage, but my mum and my brother as well. He is very interested in my friends and they all think he is great. He helped organise our wedding too, he didn't just leave it all up to me. He is wonderful with my family, and uber tolerant of some of the nuts in it. We still do make an effort with eachother to an extent, to show eachother respect and we help eachother out around the house- there are no "gender specific" defined roles in our house, we just both do what we need to do to get things done to keep it running and clean and tidy. We share the cooking and other chores. If anything, I think my husband makes FAR more effort than my father and his generation ever did, from what I have observed. My H and I have travelled extensively together, explored, been to lots of cool things together, he is an amazing cook, he does way more around the house than my dad ever has done (and my mom works full time, so its not just because of that). My H is educated and intelligent, and well read, and I respect his opinions on things and see him as an equal. And another thing that I think cements the fact that I know he makes more of an effort with our R is that he is going to be a very hands on dad when our baby arrives, and is even going to stay at home with the baby for 6 weeks when I go back to work and his work is on summer break. To my knowledge my father has never changed a nappy and I don't recall him ever cooking dinner unless my mom was away which was almost never. Most of my friends partners are just like my H in the way they share chores and childcare and still do nice things for their partners like take them out to dinner and buy them little presents etc, and generally treat them like equal partners, which is what they are.
Trialbyfire Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 JS, I can't say that men were better or worse 20 years ago since I was 14 at the time. Men do still pursue. I'm guessing it's environmental, that you're not seeing the amount of pursuit. With this in mind, you might want to change your environment in some way, so there are more assertive men to come into contact with.
Kamille Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Great points SB. It's true that most of my guy friends are a lot more involved in the housecleaning and parenting then my uncles seemed to be. Another thing, I find that because of the internet, internet dating and the emergence of "dating" books, and dating advice sites such as these ones, men are now so afraid of being "friendzoned" that they are usually a lot more upfront about showing romantic interest then they used to be. I love that. It makes my life so much simpler. No more wondering "is he or isn't he interested?"
Isolde Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Another thing, I find that because of the internet, internet dating and the emergence of "dating" books, and dating advice sites such as these ones, men are now so afraid of being "friendzoned" that they are usually a lot more upfront about showing romantic interest then they used to be. I love that. It makes my life so much simpler. No more wondering "is he or isn't he interested?" Wow, I wish I could say I've had that experience but I still get a lot of equivocal vibes. Maybe it's more a function of my age (early 20's).
Isolde Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 JS, 100 years ago you may have had suitors eagerly courting you but most of them would have been old and fat, lucrative family ties. Really, freedom of choice may come with its price, but once a relationship gets going, romance is not dead.
Author JerseyShortie Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Kamille: Is it at all possible that this is not the result of who men are but of how you approach them? I don't know the details of your last relationship, but could your perception of men be jaded because of this? Or perhaps perhaps because of LS and its resident women-bashers? You might be creating a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby since you expect men do disappoint you, they invariably do. Well you make some valid points. I am a little jaded due to real life experiences and sometimes comments on LS re-enforce the negative. Honestly, I think that could be possible that it's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy but I don't hate men and I don't walk around being an angry person. I think I come off more angry here just by my rather errr "passionate" posts. Overall, I do have issues connecting with men anyway and maybe it is a self-fulling prophecy or maybe men just aren't interested and get more satisfaction from looking at porn of perfect women then trying to have a relationship with an imperfect one. No matter what, I like you Jersey and I would much prefer you didn't feel this way. Personally? The more I mature and feel secure with who I am, the more I love men. I'm not sure what you mean by 'making an effort' for, the way I see it, men will return the amount of "effort" I put into things. And usually, it's not so much effort as playfulness. They smile, I smile. They approach, I engage with them. They don't all pursue further, but those who do usually come up with great fun plans. Maybe you are more attractive then me. Or younger. More seriously, I do think you make some valid points. Rub Slippers: ...., but I think men, in general, are much more likely to be influenced by the notion. The airbrushing/photoshopping, rampant plastic surgery, fake hair/boobs/eye color/etc. in the media and porn create an illusion of near-perfection/fantasy woman that I believe makes men less satisfied with real women. Women sense this, and overall it degrades the happiness of both parties. I agree with this. I've been around LS for years and if there's one thing you can count on here, it's a variety of opinions. There are certainly some negative comments about women, but there are also positive ones. Similarly, there are the man-haters here, and those who love men. It's like that thread about if guys like "easy" girls. You posted that women are damned if they do, damned if they don't but there was a wide range of opinions posted. LS, and especially entire genders, aren't that one-dimensional. TankBark, if you keep this up, I will actually end up liking you. You also make a good point.
Kamille Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Wow, I wish I could say I've had that experience but I still get a lot of equivocal vibes. Maybe it's more a function of my age (early 20's). Yeah it could be. Or it could be a function of one's attitude. As much as I like to criticize "He's just not that into you", I did read it and I did find applying the philosophy liberating. If a guy seems wishy-washy, then I just assume he's got other things on his plate and if ever he really wants to be with me, he will let me know. Basically, I stopped wondering if guys were interested in me, analyzing their every moves to evaluate whether or not they liked me. Perhaps paradoxically, this leaves me free to just be myself around them and to really get to know them for who they are, without hopes and expectations.
Author JerseyShortie Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 JS, I can't say that men were better or worse 20 years ago since I was 14 at the time. Men do still pursue. I'm guessing it's environmental, that you're not seeing the amount of pursuit. With this in mind, you might want to change your environment in some way, so there are more assertive men to come into contact with. Well, how I am suppose to do that? They don't have an assertive man club in the local Tri -State area that I don't know about do they? JS, 100 years ago you may have had suitors eagerly courting you but most of them would have been old and fat, lucrative family ties. Really, freedom of choice may come with its price, but once a relationship gets going, romance is not dead.
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