All This Talk About Women Aging....

March 24, 2009

Yes but people fall in love with whom they fall in love. A few years here or there really doesn't matter. One will be happier with passionate, deep love than marrying for numbers or statistics.

March 24, 2009

Yes but people fall in love with whom they fall in love. A few years here or there really doesn't matter. One will be happier with passionate, deep love than marrying for numbers or statistics.

There's truth in both position and exagerating either one usually leads to problems. Picking partners based on a checklist is pretty weird, but so is waiting for some magical, earthshattering spark, after which everything 'falls into place' (personally find this type of view borderline psychotic...). After some basic general preconditions are met (compatibility in life goals, temperaments, and realistic age being some of them), anybody can be happy with pretty much anybody. But, egos get in the way way too often.

March 24, 2009

Yes but people fall in love with whom they fall in love. A few years here or there really doesn't matter. One will be happier with passionate, deep love than marrying for numbers or statistics.

Oh come on. Some people require 'someone taller than me' and no one seems to think that's marrying for numbers. Why? Because there are plenty of prospective men over 5' 10 or whatever. A similar rule applies here.

Heck, even more on point, a lot of people in this thread insist they would only marry 'there own age' which is also marrying for numbers. Where is the scorn for that?

March 25, 2009

There's truth in both position and exagerating either one usually leads to problems. Picking partners based on a checklist is pretty weird, but so is waiting for some magical, earthshattering spark, after which everything 'falls into place' (personally find this type of view borderline psychotic...). After some basic general preconditions are met (compatibility in life goals, temperaments, and realistic age being some of them), anybody can be happy with pretty much anybody. But, egos get in the way way too often.

Well, there IS something called chemistry, and if both people are feeling it, they will commit, whereas if the preconditions are met but there's not a ton of emotional chemistry on both sides, it just won't develop into an R. I agree with you to an extent, but there are people on LS and in the real world who are unable to find partners not because they're too picky but because circumstances haven't yet convened in their favor.

March 25, 2009

Well, there IS something called chemistry, and if both people are feeling it, they will commit, whereas if the preconditions are met but there's not a ton of emotional chemistry on both sides, it just won't develop into an R. I agree with you to an extent, but there are people on LS and in the real world who are unable to find partners not because they're too picky but because circumstances haven't yet convened in their favor.

To some very limited extent - perhaps. Chemistry is much less important than we're egoistically choosing to believe, simply because it is nothing more than a 'black box' kinda term. It is merely a metaphor for some "magic ingredient" of a good relationship. It's an alluring concept, but it is much too frequently just a fantasy people resort to instead of bothering themselves with the need to consciously examine their approach to one another.

March 25, 2009

It's clear that you've never been in love, SamSpade and CLV. That is obvious.

March 25, 2009

It's clear that you've never been in love, SamSpade and CLV. That is obvious.

Aah, time for the nuclear option, I see.

March 25, 2009

Well, there IS something called chemistry, and if both people are feeling it, they will commit, whereas if the preconditions are met but there's not a ton of emotional chemistry on both sides, it just won't develop into an R. I agree with you to an extent, but there are people on LS and in the real world who are unable to find partners not because they're too picky but because circumstances haven't yet convened in their favor.

It really is as basic as that. Coming from a young woman that is impressive that at such a young age you understand things so clearly. I think this is why women in their early 20's usually look go for guys in the late 20's category because women do mature faster, once they hit 25-26 it leverages out since guys at 25-26 typically mature, and a 30 yr old man seems far too old for her.

I believe there are a lot more men out there who don't know what love is than there are women who don't. The typical man line is "romantic love only happens in Hollywood it doesn't exist in real life" of course they change their tune when they meet the real deal, but until then they write things like chemistry or all-encompassing love off. You can't expect them to do otherwise since they never experienced it. They simply don't know any better they convince themselves it's just a myth.

To deny chemistry should be present as part of the love connection is to deny humans are capable of happiness, anger or fear. The types of people who calculate love end up in those relationships 10 yrs down the line tempted and involved in infidelity with the excuse that they married for all the wrong reasons and never loved their spouses. They never experienced true love in all its capacity because they were trying to complete a formula, they didn't marry with their hearts.

March 25, 2009

Yes, we're both little old ladies who can't possibly reproduce! Oh wait, you're pregnant. Hold on, well that kind of blows the bullshyte out the back-end, now doesn't it?

The amnio is recommended for anyone 35 and older here. We have the right to refuse the test although when I do get pregnant, I will have it, for certain.

Oh, I will only have an amnio if the blood test and nuchal fold measurement scan BOTH suggest I am at high risk of having a kid with downs. Those two tests combined give pretty good results.

Amniocentesis is pretty risky- unless your maternity caregiver thinks there is a good justification for it, I would be careful with that.

You might be the next LSer to get knocked up within weeks of their wedding TBF! Fingers crossed huh!

March 25, 2009

While being in your early to maybe mid 30s is fine for having kids it's not fine for starting to date in my opinion, if you want to have kids later. Is that a hard concept to understand?

Now even 30 year old women can't date and expect something serious? But you as a 40 something year old man can? I mean you are already 40 something. How much longer are you planning on holding off? Lets say you hold off another 5 years. That makes you 45. But you aren't even in a serious relationship with any one woman. You are dallying around with three women from what you say. Which isn't fair to any one of them. But as long as you get what you want, what does that matter right? What do the other people in the situation matter right?

So your 40 something, you wait 5 years. Maybe 5 years is mote because you aren't even seriously committing to any one woman. It might be another 10 years. So by the time you are 50 roughly, you have children. By the time they are of age, you are almost 70 years old. I am sorry but I think that's completely selfish. The truth is, the sperm of a 40 year old man is less healthy then that of a 30 year old one. Healthwise, I think we will come to find even more evidence why older men need to be aware of the harmfull effects they have on their own babies. If it takes two people to make a child, it takes two people to contribute to the bad and the good. It's competely atrocious how we are only condemning women here for the quality of a child when I thought I learned that men had a hand in the pot as well. Oh but it must be that only the good things are because of the guys and the bad things are all because of women.

You keep thinking of it in terms of what a woman offers you and I have yet to see you clearly define what you offer a woman on a reproductive front. You don't offer the same health and vitality that a man of 30 would. How long are you planning to wait before you have children? How can a man of 50, 60 or 70 contribute to the energy it takes to have a child the same a man of 20 or 30 could? Will you you be able to contribute the same energy as your younger wife or will she be foreced to take the brunt of it because of your double standard?

It's exactly this kind of crap that makes it hard to trust men or be close to them. How little the apparently think of women. Who wants to be stuck in a relationship where he considers you more a commodity based on age then of value as a woman. I might as give up now because I am in my mid twenties and not close to having a committed relationship. I guess I'm not allowed the same things in life in my mid twenties going into my 30s as a man in his 40s+ plus is by the way some men view it.

March 25, 2009

It really is as basic as that. Coming from a young woman that is impressive that at such a young age you understand things so clearly. I think this is why women in their early 20's usually look go for guys in the late 20's category because women do mature faster, once they hit 25-26 it leverages out since guys at 25-26 typically mature, and a 30 yr old man seems far too old for her.

I believe there are a lot more men out there who don't know what love is than there are women who don't. The typical man line is "romantic love only happens in Hollywood it doesn't exist in real life" of course they change their tune when they meet the real deal, but until then they write things like chemistry or all-encompassing love off. You can't expect them to do otherwise since they never experienced it. They simply don't know any better they convince themselves it's just a myth.

To deny chemistry should be present as part of the love connection is to deny humans are capable of happiness, anger or fear. The types of people who calculate love end up in those relationships 10 yrs down the line tempted and involved in infidelity with the excuse that they married for all the wrong reasons and never loved their spouses. They never experienced true love in all its capacity because they were trying to complete a formula, they didn't marry with their hearts.

Boo, it's exactly the opposite. Think about what are you saying - if you need a magical chenistry ingredient, you're basically saying that you have NO control over your feelings and thoughts. It is up to PURE CHANCE to determine if you are or will be happy in relationships. It is precisely the person with this attitude that will get bored in a relationship 10 years down the road - "Awww, I no longer feel the 'spark'. I guess it wasn't meant to be, after all. Better divorce my husband and find me someone new". And they do, taking all their problems with them.

To say that somebody like me has never been in love is presumptions, uncalled for, not to mention methodologically unsound conclusion. The only relationship I've ended in my life was based precisely on the type of feeling y'all gals describe, only to discover that sticking with it past this stage would be ridiculous (though I did stick with it for 6 years ). In my next relationship, my ex espoused precisely this delusional view of love and ended it for NO reason at all. Then she realised that she had made a huge mistake, but it was too late. Spark or no spark, every real relationship boils down to choice and commitment, and that's what distinguishes women from girls .

So, everybody has the right to choose their own way of wasting their life. While some sit on their azzes waiting for the magical spark to bite them, others consciously get to know other people and attempt to build relationships with them .

March 25, 2009

Boo, it's exactly the opposite. Think about what are you saying - if you need a magical chenistry ingredient, you're basically saying that you have NO control over your feelings and thoughts. It is up to PURE CHANCE to determine if you are or will be happy in relationships. It is precisely the person with this attitude that will get bored in a relationship 10 years down the road - "Awww, I no longer feel the 'spark'. I guess it wasn't meant to be, after all. Better divorce my husband and find me someone new". And they do, taking all their problems with them.

To say that somebody like me has never been in love is presumptions, uncalled for, not to mention methodologically unsound conclusion. The only relationship I've ended in my life was based precisely on the type of feeling y'all gals describe, only to discover that sticking with it past this stage would be ridiculous (though I did stick with it for 6 years ). In my next relationship, my ex espoused precisely this delusional view of love and ended it for NO reason at all. Then she realised that she had made a huge mistake, but it was too late. Spark or no spark, every real relationship boils down to choice and commitment, and that's what distinguishes women from girls .

So, everybody has the right to choose their own way of wasting their life. While some sit on their azzes waiting for the magical spark to bite them, others consciously get to know other people and attempt to build relationships with them .

Hit the nail right on the head.

March 25, 2009

I'm in my early 50's and divorced, I have had exactly one romantic encounter since my divorce. I paid for every single expense associated with that encounter. Men do not hit on me nor do they notice me in any way shape or form, in fact people of either gender don't notice me,it's like wearing an invisibility cloak. My 55 yr old ex OTHO has had several relationships and is currently living with a jaw droppingly beautiful 33 yr old woman.

He has a romantic future, I can look forward to sitting around with a couple of cats and praying for an early death.

March 25, 2009

Death is over-rated

Get a Siamese. They're friendly and loyal. Mine (I guess my wife's now) follows me around like a dog but is independent and self-caring like a cat.

Since you have means, get out and travel. I see women your age and older a lot in my travels and find them engaging and sexy.

March 25, 2009

Death is over-rated

Get a Siamese. They're friendly and loyal. Mine (I guess my wife's now) follows me around like a dog but is independent and self-caring like a cat.

Since you have means, get out and travel. I see women your age and older a lot in my travels and find them engaging and sexy.

I've been a literal cat magnet since I was an infant, so the crazy old cat lady stereotype doesn't bother me:D

What I find interesting is that the cultural tendency to dismiss/ignore older women even extends to online communities, all these relatively young men and women arguing the advantages/disadvantages of aging and romance and the opinions of an actual older woman are pretty much ignored or discounted particularly by younger women.

I'm here to tell you that older women do become pretty much invisible socially. Aside from the forced interactions at work, I can literally go for days without seeing/speaking to anyone save for consumer transactions, people look thru me,around me or over me, as if I'm not there at all or is if I'm a blight on the landscape, something distasteful to be avoided/ignored.

A work peer dragged me to one of those meat market dances/social functions for middle aged people.. there were tons of middle aged women there and a smaller number of men, guys with comb overs/ bad hair pieces, grossly overweight guys, guys missing a lot of teeth wearing plaid pants etc... totally ignoring me,literally physically pushing me aside to get to 40 yr old women.

I am a relatively slim gal who's dress size is in the single digits, I'm in good health and physically active, I earn a decent living and am quiet,soft spoken and well mannered. I can only imagine

how hard it is for my female age peers who haven't fared as well with the aging process.

March 25, 2009

Spark or no spark, every real relationship boils down to choice and commitment, and that's what distinguishes women from girls.

That's a very nice summary right there.

March 25, 2009

What I find interesting is that the cultural tendency to dismiss/ignore older women even extends to online communities, all these relatively young men and women arguing the advantages/disadvantages of aging and romance and the opinions of an actual older woman are pretty much ignored or discounted particularly by younger women.

It always saddens me to observe this but it does seem to be true. I suspect one major reason for younger women ignoring your input is simply that it's extremely unpleasant to deal with certain ideas. The truly sad thing is that as a society we don't seem to be raised to value and respect our elders much any more. People assume there's something kinky going on between me and the sweet little widow lady (age about 70) next door simply because I visit her and help her with household chores. Her family is far away and if I don't do it, who will? Why is it odd, it should be normal. She can sure cook a wicked apple pie.

I honestly believe that a marriage would be more stable in the older model where the man takes the family lead and the woman is a respected and trusted lieutenant. This dynamic seems easier to maintain if the man is a little senior, I personally think 7 to maybe 10 years. The age gap I'm looking at for myself isn't optimal, I'll gladly admit that but sadly it's required if I want to raise a family.

I fail to toe the feminist line and I'm the target of multiple shaming and other compliance techniques because of it, but it's OK.

March 25, 2009

Spark or no spark, every real relationship boils down to choice and commitment, and that's what distinguishes women from girls .

I hate to break it to the guys here but that is easily also what seperates men from boys. It's a choice of a commitment for both.

Clv are you going to aswer the questions I asked or dodge around them ? Please refer to my earlier post with questions. already being a 40 something year old man, how much longer do you actually ahve to have children and still be an engaging, energentic father that can parent them and contribute to a family and wife with the same energy and vitality that a man of 30 can?

March 25, 2009

Clv are you going to aswer ....

I figure middle forties to start a family will be fine. Not optimal but acceptable.

March 25, 2009

It always saddens me to observe this but it does seem to be true. I suspect one major reason for younger women ignoring your input is simply that it's extremely unpleasant to deal with certain ideas. The truly sad thing is that as a society we don't seem to be raised to value and respect our elders much any more. People assume there's something kinky going on between me and the sweet little widow lady (age about 70) next door simply because I visit her and help her with household chores. Her family is far away and if I don't do it, who will? Why is it odd, it should be normal. She can sure cook a wicked apple pie.

I honestly believe that a marriage would be more stable in the older model where the man takes the family lead and the woman is a respected and trusted lieutenant. This dynamic seems easier to maintain if the man is a little senior, I personally think 7 to maybe 10 years. The age gap I'm looking at for myself isn't optimal, I'll gladly admit that but sadly it's required if I want to raise a family.

I fail to toe the feminist line and I'm the target of multiple shaming and other compliance techniques because of it, but it's OK.

We don't discount the value of all elderly people.. just the women.

To be really frank with you,the thought that I could live alone and invisible well into my 90's terrifies me, it frightens me enough that if I were to be seriously ill I would possibly consider refusing expensive chemo and other life prolonging treatments. Staying alive just to exist holds no appeal to me.

My children are grown and gone, it's nobody's fault but my own that I chose my husband poorly, now I'm alone and aging, no man wants me. Better to take the dirt nap early than to becoming increasingly more fragile,infirm and lonely with each passing year.

March 25, 2009

I've been a literal cat magnet since I was an infant, so the crazy old cat lady stereotype doesn't bother me:D

What I find interesting is that the cultural tendency to dismiss/ignore older women even extends to online communities, all these relatively young men and women arguing the advantages/disadvantages of aging and romance and the opinions of an actual older woman are pretty much ignored or discounted particularly by younger women.

I'm here to tell you that older women do become pretty much invisible socially. Aside from the forced interactions at work, I can literally go for days without seeing/speaking to anyone save for consumer transactions, people look thru me,around me or over me, as if I'm not there at all or is if I'm a blight on the landscape, something distasteful to be avoided/ignored.

A work peer dragged me to one of those meat market dances/social functions for middle aged people.. there were tons of middle aged women there and a smaller number of men, guys with comb overs/ bad hair pieces, grossly overweight guys, guys missing a lot of teeth wearing plaid pants etc... totally ignoring me,literally physically pushing me aside to get to 40 yr old women.

I am a relatively slim gal who's dress size is in the single digits, I'm in good health and physically active, I earn a decent living and am quiet,soft spoken and well mannered. I can only imagine
how hard it is for my female age peers who haven't fared as well with the aging process.

This analysis of how women are perceived as they age is what I see and what concerns me. What if your spouse dies, you never were able to get married, or you are divorced and you still want companionship after a certain age? The prevailing cultural meme is that men at any age (of course men get better as they age and will have options regardless) have access to any type of aged women but women, if they are not blessed with genetics, good looks, and solid financial security are seen as invisible women. Women have a running start from say 18-maybe 50 while men's commodities keep going up and up as long as they are merely financially stable and they have no visible health problems.

This specter of the future is frankly horrifying, thus one should be married and hope to hang on for 30-40 years or risk being an irrelevant, invisible anachronism.

March 25, 2009

Women have a running start from say 18-maybe 50 while men's commodities keep going up and up as long as they are merely financially stable and they have no visible health problems.

What is the running start stage for women happens to be the roughest time for a lot of men. There is no excuse for bashing or otherwise disrespecting anyone because of their age, but the dating/relationship prospect struggles faced by older women and young men are really two sides of the same coin.

March 25, 2009

What is the running start stage for women happens to be the roughest time for a lot of men. There is no excuse for bashing or otherwise disrespecting anyone because of their age, but the dating/relationship prospect struggles faced by older women and young men are really two sides of the same coin.

There's one big difference though.. a younger man has hope that his situation will only continue to improve, his prospective pool of eligible partners will widen

as he grows more mature. Older women cannot say the same thing.

March 25, 2009

Oh, I will only have an amnio if the blood test and nuchal fold measurement scan BOTH suggest I am at high risk of having a kid with downs. Those two tests combined give pretty good results.
Amniocentesis is pretty risky- unless your maternity caregiver thinks there is a good justification for it, I would be careful with that.

You might be the next LSer to get knocked up within weeks of their wedding TBF! Fingers crossed huh!

No way sb! We're not planning for kids until at minimum, two years after the wedding. We want time as a married couple, to do what married couples do!

In other words, we'll only start baby making when I'm somewhere between 37 - 41 years old. He's 2+ years older than me, so he'll be 39/40 - 43/44. Ag-ed eggs and dog-paddle sperm UNITE!

March 25, 2009

There's one big difference though.. a younger man has hope that his situation will only continue to improve, his prospective pool of eligible partners will widen
as he grows more mature. Older women cannot say the same thing.

I completely agree... that's why I don't believe in long term when there's a big age gap.. (for women and men)

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