Lizzie60 Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I think that a young woman can be attracted to a powerful man, (rich, etc.) even if he's ugly.. lots of examples comes to mind (like Pierre Péladeau)... but for a young man to be attracted to an older, powerful woman.. I think she would need a minimum of 'beauty'... if she's ugly.. I very much doubt... I know it sounds like double standard.. but I honestly think that if an older woman looks like a man, (butch)... unless the guy is gay or blind... but then again.. who knows.. probably male gold diggers or male who are after power or a better career... so I guess it could be possible..
carhill Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 BEG, I can cite an example from one of my journals... One of the "cats", a friend of my wife's, is a long-time business owner who is very aggressive and assertive and "out there". She works in the competitive advertising world in Las Vegas. She's our age and divorced for a number of years. My first impression of her was negative, like she had her arm out into my chest and saying "stay away" (this was my perception, not actual physical reality); she was sending out signals. Remember, as I posted on another thread, I don't find career women intimidating at all. OK, fast forward to a few weeks ago. We visited and she mentioned that she's been having lousy luck meeting men. I took that opportunity to mention, sensitively, what I had been observing in the past (we've had a fair amount of contact). Later in the visit, while my wife was otherwise occupied, she opened up and began to share a fair amount of personal stuff, like women tend to do with me, and during that process I could literally see that hand lower. We later went shopping for a few grocery items and, during that trip, I began to feel a whole different vibe from her, the kind of vibe which attracts men. I told her about the change and suggested that, by being more open and taking some risks, she could attract a compatible man. Turning the business side off and being the attractive woman she is was really all she needed to do. Think of the man who is out in the world battling with other men and women (figuratively) every day in the business world and then comes home and switches to the gentle, loving side of his personality to be with those he loves. It's really as simple as that. When I discover a professional woman's personal side, if she is willing to share it openly, that's when I can become attracted. So, conditionally, my answer to the OP would be yes
Cherished Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Aerin Lauder has a high powered job at Estee Lauder, she is in her mid to late 30s, very feminine yet intelligent and powerful.
Sam Spade Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I'm just wondering if you are say in your 30's and a guy would 5-10 year older female that is WAY more sucessful than you, earns more, ultra-confident kind of manish but still not too unattractive be attractive to you? I guess I am asking if those traits are a turn on? I hope you know the type I'm talking about: very dominant, talks a lot but also passionate about her job... Would does traits be more attcractive than youth, beauty and kindness? If she is indeed WAY more succesfull than I am, that would be a turn on. Otherwise - no because she will be just my second best - will bring me only the negatives of a career woman, without any of the positives.
Sam Spade Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I'm being serious. Think Hilary Clinton for example. There IS some attraction and sexiness in being powerful, confident and dominating. ...that is completely cancelled out by her unsophisticated, calous personality. Now, Michelle Obama - completely different story. More succesfull than most, yet perfectly feminine and motherly and attractive.
Holding-On Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 lol What kind of question is this?? How can a man possibly answer this? This is apples and oranges. I as a woman would not want to marry, give my heart to and be emotionally vulnerable with someone who wasn't kind. So if my choice was financially successful, driven versus someone who was kind well I'm going to take kind any day of the week. If I go looking for a business partner I'll talk to the driven person.
boxing123 Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 It is a strange question, most likely because the OP is worried about her married boss that is on a business trip with older women. Or something related.
Isolde Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 If she is indeed WAY more succesfull than I am, that would be a turn on. Otherwise - no because she will be just my second best - will bring me only the negatives of a career woman, without any of the positives. So you're saying moderately successful women aren't dating material, but super successful women are? By your logic, the women with the most stressful, drama laden schedules are sexy, but the ones with more manageable schedules, who still make good money are not attractive?
Sam Spade Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 So you're saying moderately successful women aren't dating material, but super successful women are? By your logic, the women with the most stressful, drama laden schedules are sexy, but the ones with more manageable schedules, who still make good money are not attractive? Nah, if the woman is any kind of a "career" woman, she'll probably have hard to manage schedule and attitude regardless of type and level of career. Or in other words, having aby kind of career, comes with a major fixed cost, even it is not extremely high powered. There are marginal increases in this "cost" of course the higher you are, but there is an initial major inconvenience that comes with any career... So, if I'm going to deal with this anyway, might at least be with one that's actually succesful (e.g. financially). Otherwise I'll probably be better off with a woman with a mediocre job that's not too stresfull and allows her to be 'softer' and more nurturing at home... The grey areas are so wide that the distincitons are almost pointless, but, that's what i meant...
Isolde Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 There may be some truth to the fact that any career is difficult to manage. However, I will take exception to the assertion that having a career makes you Type A. Career doesn't have to equal corporate ladder climbing, you know. There's nonprofit organizations, academia, working for yourself or as an independent consultant... and so forth. Dating preferences such as you've mentioned are fine, but having a mediocre job doesn't necessarily mean there won't be stress in your life, and having a career doesn't mean you can't be nurturing (it may be a rare combination, just like the strong & sensitive dynamic in men, but it does exist).
fral945 Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 I hope you know the type I'm talking about: very dominant, talks a lot but also passionate about her job... Would does traits be more attcractive than youth, beauty and kindness? Not to me. I know a woman just like that. She is single, mid 30s, physically attractive (teaches fitness classes part-time at a gym, so she definitely doesn't have a problem attracting men), makes a lot of money, owns her own home, and has a successful career. She seems to have everything going for her except being able to keep a man around. I've though about what it would be like to be involved someone like that. I really don't think I could deal with her personality (very dominant, type A). Her confidence and career success do not attract me at all and are a turn-off if anything. Being dominant and having a passion for her job do not make her attractive as a wife or mother potential. The bottom line is I do not like extreme personalities. The type of woman you describe falls into that category.
Cherished Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Just because she is single doesn't mean she has problems keeping a man around. She probably is choosy and only wants one who she feels passionately for. You guys think women should take any man who wants to date them. It is better to be alone than to be with a man you do not feel passionate love for. She simply hasn't found the man who she feels so passionately about she wants to spend her life with him. Or maybe she has, but that relationship didn't work out for some reason. So she is simply living the single life, and when she meets the right guy, great, but why should she settle for less than love and passion? Being unmarried is better than living without love and passion. You would show a single 30 year old man and not state that he has trouble keeping a woman around. You would say that all the women are trash or "career" women and he hasn't found the right "foreign" woman to own.
carhill Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 She seems to have everything going for her except being able to keep a man around. Does she complain about that to you? IMO, that's key, that it is perceived as a negative reality by her. Something she wishes were different or would change. Further, if she is ambivalent about how to go about changing it, that might (and I stress might) be supportive of your perspective about career women. Some of my wife's friends are like that. Very successful and single. Some are sweet, loving women and some are just plain ballbusters. Only way to know is to get to know them
Isolde Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Some are sweet, loving women and some are just plain ballbusters. Only way to know is to get to know them Thank you, carhill, for adding a balanced perspective. You know, a lot of professional women are very vulnerable and bury themselves in work, as a way to escape their emotions (men do this too). Get to know them, and you might be surprised what such women are like when their guard is down.
Trialbyfire Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 There's someone for everyone. For example, I have careerist female friends who are married to careerists and have children. I also have ex-careerist friends, now SAHMs, who are married to careerists, with children. My fiancé is also a careerist and so am I. We plan to have children, while both of us retain our careers. So it depends on the man and the woman involved.
Author BlueEyedGirl Posted March 15, 2009 Author Posted March 15, 2009 Hi Carhill, Would you perhaps, maybe, please be willing to look at my thread "crush on a married boss" in rants and conffesions section and give me your thoughts or advice (if any?). I have always found your posts incredibly insightful and something I can relate to.
boxing123 Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Not to me. I know a woman just like that. She is single, mid 30s, physically attractive (teaches fitness classes part-time at a gym, so she definitely doesn't have a problem attracting men), makes a lot of money, owns her own home, and has a successful career. She seems to have everything going for her except being able to keep a man around. Gosh, I know more than a few women like that.. Inside they are most likely miserable. Alone.. Aging.. They keep themselves HYPER busy so they do not have time to even think about it. Men can work, come home, relax.. Many of these hyper busy women are afraid to stop and face the situation they are in.
fral945 Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Does she complain about that to you? IMO, that's key, that it is perceived as a negative reality by her. Something she wishes were different or would change. Further, if she is ambivalent about how to go about changing it, that might (and I stress might) be supportive of your perspective about career women. Some of my wife's friends are like that. Very successful and single. Some are sweet, loving women and some are just plain ballbusters. Only way to know is to get to know them Yes, she complains often that all the good ones are taken. My personal opinion is that she (like most women in general) wants a man more accomplished than she is. When you're a highly successful career woman that really limits the field. I am actually fairly comparable to her in a number of ways (except that I don't quite make as much money as she does). Physically speaking, we are both attracted to each other. But her dominating personality is a complete turn-off to me.
carhill Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Get to know them, and you might be surprised what such women are like when their guard is down. Yes, the example I posted in this thread is a marked example of that. When my wife's friend came to trust me enough to let her guard down, she became literally a different person, a person more easily cared for and loved, even as a friend. I hope she can translate that to romance. Great lady. I'm rooting for her I watched her in action in the casinos when we were there and men were attracted to her but she was always defaulting to business mode (even when there was no business going on) and it was just off-putting from a personal standpoint. That's why I took the risk to tell her what I was seeing and sensing. I'm glad I did. She was very accepting. Crikey, I need a shopping buddy
boxing123 Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Yes, the example I posted in this thread is a marked example of that. When my wife's friend came to trust me enough to let her guard down, she became literally a different person, a person more easily cared for and loved, even as a friend. I hope she can translate that to romance. Great lady. I'm rooting for her I watched her in action in the casinos when we were there and men were attracted to her but she was always defaulting to business mode (even when there was no business going on) and it was just off-putting from a personal standpoint. That's why I took the risk to tell her what I was seeing and sensing. I'm glad I did. She was very accepting. Crikey, I need a shopping buddy Yes, but you are sounding as if you talked down to her as a child, as though she had no idea how to conduct herself..
Sam Spade Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Yes, she complains often that all the good ones are taken. My personal opinion is that she (like most women in general) wants a man more accomplished than she is. When you're a highly successful career woman that really limits the field. I am actually fairly comparable to her in a number of ways (except that I don't quite make as much money as she does). Physically speaking, we are both attracted to each other. But her dominating personality is a complete turn-off to me. I miss the good old days when there were only 2 professions for women: teachers and secretaries at the local social security branch. None of these problems existed back then . Things in society change, mostly for the better, but there are always tradeoffs. As the native geniouses have discovered, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I am happy for all super succesfull women out there, but quite frankly, I can't see myself loving one. And no, it's not because I'd feel inferior with my middle clas job...
carhill Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Yes, but you are sounding as if you talked down to her as a child, as though she had no idea how to conduct herself.. Buddy, do you have any friends? Do you ever tell a friend they're screwing up? I know I do, and trust my friends to do the same for me. That's not treating them like children; it's telling them what I see. Hope you can figure that out eventually
boxing123 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Well it ties into my theory actually.. Why is it that a woman has a hard time working, and still staying feminine? Why must she have somebody explain this to her at an advanced stage of life? Do you really think she was never told this before? I am guessing she is at least in her 30's or 40's. Do you really think it is something people can turn on and off? It is easy to tell people what mistakes they make, but rarely do they change. At her age it might be too late to find what she wants.
Woggle Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Men can work, come home, relax.. Many of these hyper busy women are afraid to stop and face the situation they are in. Thus us very true. Many of these women are always on. They never ever stop to take life in and always seem high strung and stressed out. They just go and go and go and never seem to be accomplishing much. I accomplish more at work in 2 hours than they do in a whole day.
Woggle Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Not all super successful women are ballbusting misandrists who are incapable of loving a man. There are many women that work at the grocery store or are on public assistence who have attitudes that are rotten to the core. Let's not taint all successful women because of the stereotypes that give them a bad name.
Recommended Posts