When a guy's initial pursuit is particularly enthusiastic...

[Khabarak]

The guy may not even realize he's asking a lot of questions. Stated differently: What you consider to be a lot of questions may not be what he considers to be a lot of questions.

 

On the subject of remember small details... he may just have a good memory. With an interest in a subject (you), and a good memory to compliment it, not a lot of details escape.

 

Personally, I ask quite a few questions about people, especially the ones I'm attracted to. I ask because I like to know the 'why?', if that makes any sense in this context. If something interests me, I want to learn all about that something. Put really simply: I'm curious, and the questions are my means to satisfy that curiosity.

 

Also, I have a great memory -- remembering the small details is not something I have to work hard at doing. It just comes naturally.

 

Basically what I'm saying is I think this guy is probably genuinely interested and is not a "stalker" type. I think he's asking questions because he's interested in you, not because he's "studying" you.

 

All that said, I know him only from your description. You are the one that must make the final decision.

[xenomaniac]

Yup, it's him. Some things have changed since that post, however. He recently explained why he withdrew from me for those weeks...basically, he found himself falling for me & ran because he hadn't felt that way for someone since...you guessed it, "the ex". He was confused and didn't know how to tell me the "full story" then. HOWEVER: it turns out he's NOT interested in pursuing her now. Apparently, he had a change of heart and realized it was better to move forward without her then attempt to "get closure" (and apparently, she's moved on from him long ago). Anyway, he now tells me that she isn't really a factor "between us", but that he himself needs to ease into the role of "boyfriend material" again since it's been years since he last attempted that role. He even said to me that he foresees an actual "formal" relationship for us soon, but he wants us to work on it together when I move into the city (which is actually next week) and he comes back from his promo duties overseas (early April). He said, "as long as you are still there because I don't want to lose you". I really do want to make it work with him. We have a lot between us and I think his interest in me is both significant yet very complex and it either makes him boyishly idealistic or suddenly awkward. I've never met anyone like this before. And my friends say he really is an exceptionally odd case. I guess we'll see how it goes in April...

[Trialbyfire]

xeno, a complicated man isn't complicated. He hides behind complication because deep down inside, he's afraid of commitment and many times, these kinds of guys tend to fool themselves into believing otherwise.

 

Pay attention to Girlygirl1977's comments. I, like her, have been there, done that. It's not worth the heartache of any deeper kind of investment.

 

Just take it slow and easy. He'll bail/withdraw again, if he's commitment phobic, regardless of what he says or promises. Don't expect too much from him or it'll be an excuse to bail, because you're asking for the moon...where realistically speaking, you're only asking for what a truly invested man will give naturally.

[zhsoj]

xeno, a complicated man isn't complicated. He hides behind complication because deep down inside, he's afraid of commitment and many times, these kinds of guys tend to fool themselves into believing otherwise.

 

Gee... Thanks TBF. I can see that you think all men are stupid commitment-probes...

[Trialbyfire]

Gee... Thanks TBF. I can see that you think all men are stupid commitment-probes...

Are you identical to the man that the OP is posting about or the ones that GG and I are posting about? If not, there's no reason to get your thong in a twist over my posts and draw inaccurate conclusions about my attitude towards men.

 

I'm currently engaged to an amazing man and have dated/had relationships with some great guys. I have some very close male friends and are very close to my father and brothers. Most of my esteemed business mentors and many of my contacts are men, who I like and greatly respect.

 

I've also had one experience with a commitment phobe so I'm sharing this experience because this guy sounds a lot like him.

 

How this translates to believing that men are all stupid and commitment phobes, isn't a terribly rational or logical conclusion to come to.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm no expert, but in reading about commitment phobes after breaking up with one six months ago, I learned that the very heavy pursuit phase is trademark of them. My guy did it. He was aaaalllll about us, marriage, kids, the whole shebang, relatively quickly. I was naive and completely inexperienced with his particular type, so I didn't catch it. I trusted him and took what he said and did at face value, and in the end got badly burned. I feel like I wasted two years of my life with him.

 

Not trying to be cynical -- just giving you my experience with an over-the-top kinda guy.

[boxing123]

Wait a second.. The OP seems to be the commitment phobe, yet the guy is being pegged as one?

 

I recently started a thread on here in which the female was acting exactly like you. The universal advice to me was "She is not interested move on.. " Everyone said "No woman will act busy if she is into the guy". I guess that was inacurrate advice, seeing that you really are interested in this guy, and act busy becuse you are scared.

 

I also remember everything a woman tells me that I am interested in. Everything. I would not be contacting a woman's friends on Facebook however.

 

But if a time passes, and I feel not much is being reciprocated, I do lose all interest, or most of it. It is a sign to me that the woman will sooner or later flake out, and it is not worth it.

[Girlygirl1977]

Most situations which work well in the end are not as complicated as yours is coming out to be at 3 months, so I would def move slowly on this. I would be worried he may do the withdraw/return too many times that it would make me dizzy. Let's see how it goes and I wish you good luck.

 

I just think that usually when it is so complicated and "odd" (as your friends said), there is usually a reason.

[jenniferlm]

well stalkers follow you around, and often see a type of relationship existing between themselves and someone else that is way off base, an exaggeration (as in you meet someone briefly and they assume you have a love match), or think they have a relationship where there Isn't one at all (as in the case of celebrities).

 

Is this the case? Are you returning his feelings? There's nothing wrong with a guy putting forth effort, it just seems as though you're not used to it.

 

Does he show up at places where he knows you will be, time and time again, even though you haven't made plans to see/meet him there?

Does he track your movements, ask you where you've been all the time, or go through your personal things (computer, purse, house, car, etc)

 

Right now it sounds as though he's just being nice.

[xenomaniac]

Wait a second.. The OP seems to be the commitment phobe, yet the guy is being pegged as one?

 

I recently started a thread on here in which the female was acting exactly like you. The universal advice to me was "She is not interested move on.. " Everyone said "No woman will act busy if she is into the guy". I guess that was inacurrate advice, seeing that you really are interested in this guy, and act busy becuse you are scared.

 

I also remember everything a woman tells me that I am interested in. Everything. I would not be contacting a woman's friends on Facebook however.

 

But if a time passes, and I feel not much is being reciprocated, I do lose all interest, or most of it. It is a sign to me that the woman will sooner or later flake out, and it is not worth it.

 

It's interesting how many guys that I relate this situation to try to say I'm the one sending the mixed signals while women peg him as commitment-shy, shady, etc. Everyone agrees that his initial pursuit seemed legit; how much credence people put into our good start really varies.

 

Anyway. I am not a relationship person, but I want one with him, so don't think I am pushing him away. At best, I'm being patient. At worst, being lead on. The reason I asked about his pursuit period is because I remember being pleasantly surprised by all he recalls and the little actions he takes to impress me. In my heart, I feel those are his true intentions and feelings towards me, and as long as I see it that way, I don't mind waiting for his mind to catch up to his heart. Again, I'm not out to aggressively seek other males at the moment.

[xenomaniac]

well stalkers follow you around, and often see a type of relationship existing between themselves and someone else that is way off base, an exaggeration (as in you meet someone briefly and they assume you have a love match), or think they have a relationship where there Isn't one at all (as in the case of celebrities).

 

Is this the case? Are you returning his feelings? There's nothing wrong with a guy putting forth effort, it just seems as though you're not used to it.

 

Does he show up at places where he knows you will be, time and time again, even though you haven't made plans to see/meet him there?

Does he track your movements, ask you where you've been all the time, or go through your personal things (computer, purse, house, car, etc)

 

Right now it sounds as though he's just being nice.

 

Nothing as creepy or extreme as that nothing like what one goal did to kat mcphee... :-x

[xenomaniac]

Most situations which work well in the end are not as complicated as yours is coming out to be at 3 months, so I would def move slowly on this. I would be worried he may do the withdraw/return too many times that it would make me dizzy. Let's see how it goes and I wish you good luck.

 

I just think that usually when it is so complicated and "odd" (as your friends said), there is usually a reason.

 

I should mention that though our "involvement" has lasted 3 months, it's not been a continuous three months. It's been split into various modes: the initial dating period (December), the "cool off"/"I need to think about this" period (January, when we were "friends", not "lovers"), and the reconciliation period (February through now), where we decided we indeed did want to make "us" work romantically, a decision which was based on a reassessment of his own attitudes. So, it hasn't really been your typical 3 month trajectory. We had a fast, passionate kick-off, a burn-out, then a relaunch. :rolleyes: That said, I know what you are saying about when things seem complex, there is usually a reason. In my head, despite all this, our "pros" outweigh our "cons". If it stops seeming worth it, I'll bail. Until then, because it's so rare that I actually connect with a male like this, I feel compelled to weather the storm, so to speak.

[youknowmyname]

Hey, I'm wondering, when you went into your "let's give this a shot, romantically" phase, was that something you both agreed to verbally (meaning you had "the talk"), or did you two just fall into it and you just know that's where you are based on behavior?

[xenomaniac]

Hey, I'm wondering, when you went into your "let's give this a shot, romantically" phase, was that something you both agreed to verbally (meaning you had "the talk"), or did you two just fall into it and you just know that's where you are based on behavior?

 

Both. It was an unspoken thing at first (which I semi-documented in my thread in the Friends/Lovers forum). I sensed extreme resurgent interest on his end, and I responded to it. After a few weeks, I finally requested "the talk". Much to my pleasant surprise, he agreed and even seemed relieved to discuss our "status". And he confirmed what I suspected: he still cares about me, thinks about me, and wants to be with me. He wasn't sure how to "reapproach me" after he withdrew from me in January. When he realized I was still willing, it really cleared the air. Right now, he's abroad but things are secure between us. I guess that because I tend to be cynical, I just find myself worrying that we will relapse.

 

Anyway, if you are feeling similar vibes from someone you are involved with (that they are still interested), then I suggest you do have "the talk" with them. If I hadn't, I'd still be torturing myself everyday. And don't assume the other person will resume their initial pursuit after they've messed things up. In my case, he was actually AFRAID to approach me again...

[clv0116]

I couldn't agree more. Hard to get doesn't pay. Guys that want girls to play hard to get, either have issues, don't want commitment, or are extremely insecure.

 

I guess there are couples who need drama, maybe they would be perfect together but for me, I agree. I want less drama, not more.

[Trialbyfire]

xenomaniac, one more time...BE CAREFUL! You're invested and determined to make this work out. How will you handle it when he pulls again?

[xenomaniac]

xenomaniac, one more time...BE CAREFUL! You're invested and determined to make this work out. How will you handle it when he pulls again?

 

 

I ask that to myself everyday! I mean, of course, I'll be upset. And this is the part that fractures not only myself, but those I ask for advice. Some people say that risk is worth taking. Others don't. Interestingly, it's mainly the men who say, "He's clearly into you! Stop being so damn impatient and be willing to compromise with him! You may lose your best chance at true love if you demand too much right away!". While the other court (mainly females) argue the opposite: "Make him work for you! Always put yourself first etc" or even worse, "Cut your losses! He's just going to hurt you." Obviously, their own personal experiences shade their opinions, and I keep this in mind (most of my friends are in "embittered" states at the moment, haha ).

 

So, you can see why I am always questioning this! I mean, I see validity in both perspectives. And I have seen similar situations work out for the best, and I've also seen them fall apart. I know it's a huge gamble, and honestly? I don't usually make much effort romantically at all. I'm sort of notorious for being the distant, aloof one. I always *DO* put myself first -- almost brazenly so. This is the first time I've actually ever fallen for a guy to this extent. I almost always am the one who does the breaking up/withdrawal routine (yup, I'm a former "Ice Queen" ), actually, so this is quite a role reversal for me! Karma?

[BubblyPopcorn]

I am going to have to agree with Trial. I’m not an expert by all means but based on my own experience, and someone who has been in two long term relationships, I understand the dynamics of which she speaks of.

 

And looking back, at my last LTR which lasted for six years, there were clear warning signs going into it such as what you’ve described. Although different circumstances, I am more hesitant and cautious these days to move forward with someone when I see that type of behavior.

 

You withdrawing is a normal response when reassurance is lacking. And based on what you’ve posted, I can understand why. He is not stepping up to the plate, so to speak. All you can do is focus on your response/reaction to it and like the others have said, go slow and proceed with caution.

[carhill]

OP, no real clues about your guy, but I can tell you that accurate memories for this man are formed when emotions are involved. Perhaps, in another few decades, when he can remember those same memories like they happened yesterday, you'll have a clearer view of his perspective. I wish you well in the journey

 

None of us is perfect. Some of us go overboard (that's both men and women).

 

I'll change my opinion about clues....I recall being somewhat like him during my 20's and I believe it was due to emotional immaturity and insecurities from my younger years, particularly with girls and women. So, see if that fits. Good luck!

[Trialbyfire]

I ask that to myself everyday! I mean, of course, I'll be upset. And this is the part that fractures not only myself, but those I ask for advice. Some people say that risk is worth taking. Others don't. Interestingly, it's mainly the men who say, "He's clearly into you! Stop being so damn impatient and be willing to compromise with him! You may lose your best chance at true love if you demand too much right away!". While the other court (mainly females) argue the opposite: "Make him work for you! Always put yourself first etc" or even worse, "Cut your losses! He's just going to hurt you." Obviously, their own personal experiences shade their opinions, and I keep this in mind (most of my friends are in "embittered" states at the moment, haha ).

 

So, you can see why I am always questioning this! I mean, I see validity in both perspectives. And I have seen similar situations work out for the best, and I've also seen them fall apart. I know it's a huge gamble, and honestly? I don't usually make much effort romantically at all. I'm sort of notorious for being the distant, aloof one. I always *DO* put myself first -- almost brazenly so. This is the first time I've actually ever fallen for a guy to this extent. I almost always am the one who does the breaking up/withdrawal routine (yup, I'm a former "Ice Queen" ), actually, so this is quite a role reversal for me! Karma?

I don't suggest you go either way. I do suggest that games are never worth the effort. All I'm going to do is to caution you, time and again over someone who's not committed.

 

Games can be fun until someone pokes out an eye...

 

Just ramp up on your moving on skills, for the next time he pulls on you. It will probably be at the worst time, when you've let down your guard. It's not a deliberate attempt to hurt, most likely. It's just that when you let your guard down, it's a terrifying feeling for a commitment phobe. It's suddenly becomes a reality v. a challenge in the distance, a challenge to be conquered. Think of how he pulled the first time and then, when you pulled back, his interest sparked. When he didn't have to take responsibility for his actions of pulling or give any real accounting for his pulling, he was fine to pursue more, except this time, he doesn't have to put out as much. He's got a bolt hole. EXPECT that he will pull again. Prep yourself for it.

[xenomaniac]

I guess I have two questions, then:

 

1.) How do I go about distancing myself (just in case) from someone I love?

2.) Why do commitment-phobes even pursue relationships to begin with? Do they begin each new quest thinking that "this time" it will be different? (Would love to hear a guy's take on this).

 

p.s. Not totally sure he *IS* a commitment-phobe. I don't know enough about his history to know for sure if this is part of his pattern or not. I do know that "his issues" are something he wants to rectify this year specifically. Idealistic? Probably, but at least he's making an effort to resolve his demons. Some people never do...

[carhill]

1. it's a detachment process, IMO. The emotional bonding becomes more and more superficial and then it's essentially gone. The partner again appears as two-dimensional and instinctive caring and empathy are replaced by polite indifference.

 

2. Why do diabetics want to pig out on carbs and sugar? We crave what is bad for us. It's a fundamental psychology of stimulation. As far as the reasons, IMO, it's mostly ego and intellectual processing. The person thinks they have their demons under control, but, when a certain level of intimacy is reached, those fences come down and the crap spills out all over the street. I've seen some real ugly emotional outbursts as a result of decades of "baggage" slamming to the surface. The childhood stuff appears especially insidious. A whole bunch of anger, hurt and fear cascade and the person withdraws, almost instinctively. Mix in the male wiring to subdue and subvert emotion and you get inexplicable and sudden distance.

 

Think of your guy's enthusiastic pursuit as the diabetic craving the sugar, which eventually tips him over and he runs. When this happens repeatedly, I call it a rubber band relationship. After awhile, you can predict exactly when and how it will happen.

[xenomaniac]

God, it seems like such a tragic cycle. For both parties involved! There's got to be a way to get past it (for his sake, too!)

[carhill]

Therapy and medication, IMO.

 

Our psychologist uses a simple rule: If a behavior or behavioral dynamic interferes with the formation of healthy relationships, it should be examined.

 

As an example, I've never run from women emotionally (or physically) when they have responded positively to my interest. I prefer to have intimate relationships. If I didn't, and feared them, and pursued women but then ran away once they showed real interest and the potential for an emotional bond, then I would be the one with the behavioral/psychological issues interfering with the formation of a healthy relationship. My wife had this issue in our marriage and I was forever chasing her, also an unhealthy behavior. Hence MC

 

Wish I had better news...sorry..

[xenomaniac]

Aw, well, at least you can share your perspective on this. I mean, I'm not even totally sure my guy is as fatally flawed as it seems, but I guess he sort of fits the "prototype". Yet he also seems to CRAVE to have someone care about him. Ugh...