zman Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 Originally posted by midori Oops, wrong: 25.9 million American men (27.1%) and 22.8 million women (22.2%) are smokers. Here's a link: http://www.quit-smoking.net/smokingstatistics.html Whoa, I stand corrected. I guess the stats that I remembered are over 10 years old. I still think that in developing countries women hardly ever smoke and it's mostly a male phenomenon. Of all the people I know, the only regular smokers are women, and the few men I know who smoke only do so occaisionally, with cigars or while at bars. I have known several women who have claimed not to smoke but then smoke when they are out at bars. They often claim that nicotine helps with losing weight.
zman Posted October 13, 2003 Posted October 13, 2003 Originally posted by CaterpillarGirl I'm not offended, I'm righteously angered. Listen, seriously, I'm sorry if you don't want to be educated, but maybe there are others here who do. Not if I end up paying for your Medicare bills, or if I'm sitting next to you in the park. You know what? I already know what the risks are! Suicide is, unfortunately, a risk, but no treatment, or self-treatment, does not seem to decrease this risk significantly. You might be interested in this article: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p000937.html You go Caterpillar Girl!! Whoo Hoo, I'm with you!!
cindy0039 Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 What I find interesting is that this thread started out with the simple question: Would you date a smoker? We're all just answering that question, but for some reason some of the smokers are taking it personally when some of us say no, like it's a personal attack on them. I for one don't mean for it to be. I don't hate them because they smoke. And no, it's not just because it's an annoyance. For me, it's because I'm allergic, it bothers me, and it's my choice not to be around someone who smokes. Sure, you have the right to smoke. But others have the right not to want to be around it. I for one wouldn't want to be married to a smoker, not only because of the reasons I've stated, but because the chances of him developing smoking-related medical conditions is high. I also wouldn't want to be married to an alcoholic for the same reasons, besides the fact that they would make my life miserable.
jenny Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 they haven't found any link between brain cell reduction and smoking, have they?
CaterpillarGirl Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Cindy, your post definitely resonates with me.
Big Brother Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Not if I end up paying for your Medicare bills, or if I'm sitting next to you in the park. Well, that's another can of worms. Do you rail against overweight people, too? Because the health risks there are evenmore significant and costly to society. It is a bit disingenuous to claim moral opposition to smoking based on public health when there are just as many other lifestyle choices -- weight, sexual behavior, alcohol/drug use, etc. -- that are equally or more costly.
CaterpillarGirl Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Originally posted by Big Brother Well, that's another can of worms. Do you rail against overweight people, too? Because the health risks there are evenmore significant and costly to society. It is a bit disingenuous to claim moral opposition to smoking based on public health when there are just as many other lifestyle choices -- weight, sexual behavior, alcohol/drug use, etc. -- that are equally or more costly. Indeed. I also feel obesity, alcohol/drug use, and sexual behavior are problems in society that need addressing. However, I'm not out there grabbing cigarettes from people's mouths or pouring out their drinks in the sink. I'm not trying to be annoying. I'm just trying to get people to be aware that their choices have real consequences that affect not only themselves, but friends, family, and society at large! If they were engaging in self-destructive behaviour of their own volition and if this would have no affect on anyone else, I would say, "sure, go ahead and smoke, you're a big kid." But to make this choice knowing that you could be affecting someone else's life, seems somewhat callous to me. Do you disagree? I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
moimeme Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 they haven't found any link between brain cell reduction and smoking, have they? Finally, smoking will narrow the arteries in you brain just the same as throughout the rest of your body resulting in less oxygenated blood reaching the brain (which has a high oxygen requirement). www.heartsavers.co.uk/smokingeffectsonbrain.htm Men might wish to note: several recent studies have looked at exactly this question in regard to male impotence and found that there is a link between smoking and difficulties having an erectionwww.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2113.html
midori Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Originally posted by CaterpillarGirl Indeed. I also feel obesity, alcohol/drug use, and sexual behavior are problems in society that need addressing. However, I'm not out there grabbing cigarettes from people's mouths or pouring out their drinks in the sink. I'm not trying to be annoying. I'm just trying to get people to be aware that their choices have real consequences that affect not only themselves, but friends, family, and society at large! If they were engaging in self-destructive behaviour of their own volition and if this would have no affect on anyone else, I would say, "sure, go ahead and smoke, you're a big kid." But to make this choice knowing that you could be affecting someone else's life, seems somewhat callous to me. Do you disagree? I'd like to hear other people's opinions. I absolutely agree with this. And while some smokers offer reasons like one that was brought up earlier on this thread -- helping with anxiety, etc. -- I do think that smoking is a more straightforwardly risky behavior that has no benefit to the smoker. We all need to eat; obese people just have a problem with intake exceeding calories burned. As an increasing number of medical studies indicate, careful moderate alcohol consumption can have benefits for people -- but obviously moderation is the key. Not so with cigarettes. Not even one is good for you. So people who are choosing to smoke are taking on a risk that has no potential benefit. Hard to justify.
Big Brother Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by CaterpillarGirl Indeed. I also feel obesity, alcohol/drug use, and sexual behavior are problems in society that need addressing. However, I'm not out there grabbing cigarettes from people's mouths or pouring out their drinks in the sink. I'm not trying to be annoying. I'm just trying to get people to be aware that their choices have real consequences that affect not only themselves, but friends, family, and society at large! If they were engaging in self-destructive behaviour of their own volition and if this would have no affect on anyone else, I would say, "sure, go ahead and smoke, you're a big kid." But to make this choice knowing that you could be affecting someone else's life, seems somewhat callous to me. Do you disagree? I'd like to hear other people's opinions. I agree completely with what you wrote. What bothers me is the hypocricy of singling out smoking while ignoring other behavioral/lifestyle issues that are equally or more damaging to society. For some reason, it is socially acceptable to berate smokers whereas it is absolutely not acceptable to berate people who are overweight, even though the latter is just as harmful overall as the former. Why is that?
moimeme Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 It's no more acceptable to berate smokers; it's just that smokers tend to be more militant about their 'rights', whether or not they impinge upon others'. The alcoholic doesn't force booze down your throat; the obese person doesn't shove food into your mouth, but smokers exhale their poison into the air around people who have no desire to inhale poisons and many insist it's their 'right' to do so.
Big Brother Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by moimeme It's no more acceptable to berate smokers; it's just that smokers tend to be more militant about their 'rights', whether or not they impinge upon others'. The alcoholic doesn't force booze down your throat; the obese person doesn't shove food into your mouth, but smokers exhale their poison into the air around people who have no desire to inhale poisons and many insist it's their 'right' to do so. Thanks for proving my point. You have justified your actions to yourself but that doesn't make them fair or logical. The cost to society of alcohol use and over-eating is huge. No, the alcoholic doesn't force liquor down your throat (you knew that) but the effects of "second hand drinking" -- from job performance, to being behind the wheel of a car to family relationships -- are every bit as damaging (perhaps more so) as second-hand smoke. Just ask the family of an alcoholic how much damage it has endured. And the overweight don't force food down your throat (you knew that, too) but just look at the rates of heart disease and diabetes -- that we ALL pay for -- among the overweight. Here in the US, escalating health care costs have made it impossible for many families to even afford health insurance. Smokers do, in fact, have a right to smoke. It is legal. Whether or not it should be is a matter of debate, imo, but given that it is legal, a right certainly does exist. Do you attack folks who drive cars, too? After all, cars "exhale" all sorts of poisons into the air around them. Do some research on air pollution and the causes of lung disease in non-smokers and you will find that cigarette smoke is neither the only nor the largest cause. Are you familiar with environmental issues to the extent that you understand how your actions affect those around you? Everything you do -- from the car you drive to the food you eat to the clothes you wear -- makes a HUGE impact on your fellow inhabitants. Smoking has become a scapegoat for many of the societal/cultural behaviors that harm us all. But it is in no way to worst offender and I do believe that smokers bear more than their fair share of the brunt of people's largely misplaced anger. Don't want to date one? That's fine. Beating people up for smoking? That's over the line.
midori Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by Big Brother After all, cars "exhale" all sorts of poisons into the air around them. Do some research on air pollution and the causes of lung disease in non-smokers and you will find that cigarette smoke is neither the only nor the largest cause. Are you familiar with environmental issues to the extent that you understand how your actions affect those around you? Everything you do -- from the car you drive to the food you eat to the clothes you wear -- makes a HUGE impact on your fellow inhabitants. I was just thinking the other day how ironic it is that California is the locus of much anti-smoking zeal, but Californians' dependency on cars makes their entire environment toxic. Going back to the question at hand: I don't smoke but I have dated smokers in the past and if I were really attracted to him I probably would date someone who is a light smoker who never smoked inside. A social smoker -- although I suppose those will fall by the wayside to a large extent now that more and more bars in the US are smoke-free.
Ryan Posted October 16, 2003 Posted October 16, 2003 I tear into the obese and the drunks equally. Smokers do, in fact, have a right to smoke. And I have a right to cough on you.
Author d.stevens Posted October 19, 2003 Author Posted October 19, 2003 Originally posted by Ryan I tear into the obese and the drunks equally. As do I, especially if they try to justify their decision to continue... Regarding the smoking, I am completely amazed at how selfish smokers can be. They only seem to limit their views to themselves and their immediate surroundings that affect only them. Does a person’s early death only affect them? NO! How about the young kids that loose that mother, father, sister or brother? How does that loss affect them? If it were an accident...then a different story. But people decide to do this. Those family members needlessly lost out because that person had the “right” to make a poor decision? Not a very responsible position to defend in my opinion. People justifing their choosing to do this… amazing
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