Question for a WS

[pkn06002]

Yes, work on the relationship, absolutely. But not because of the f'ed up reason that pkn would have you thinking.

 

Again trying to just pick a fight. You know better that to make this comment since i have agreed with you about this point on multiple threads.

 

HE is the one obsessing about something over 10 years old!!! I would think that in 10 years she has made her amends more than once.

[scarred]

You know what Dexter, I really feel very sorry for you. Somehow you have let your experience rob you of all of the joy in life. Every comment you make about a WS is so self-righteous. I really think all the zest for life and trust in anyone has been sucked right out of you. That is too bad because if so you're doomed to a life of bitterness unless you get some psychological help.

 

In your life, do you ever offer words of encouragement for anyone? Ever forgive anyone for stupid and many times intentional decisions they make? I'm not stupid, I know my wife made the decisions she made - and I know she knows how to cheat. But you know what, its not going to ruin my life like it evidently has yours. If she cheats again, I'll find someone who wants to be with me only - I'm a pretty good looking guy who has a good financial situation so I know I'll not have any problem attracting women - it will just take time to find someone I'm compatible with.

 

So, why don't you do everyone a favor. Spend a little less time putting a negative, self-righteous spin on every entry you post, and a lot more time truly trying to help people - you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself.

[Dexter Morgan]

You know what Dexter, I really feel very sorry for you. Somehow you have let your experience rob you of all of the joy in life.

 

Oh the joy I have. I wouldn't have any joy if I kept a cheater for a wife.

 

Go figure.

 

 

Every comment you make about a WS is so self-righteous. I really think all the zest for life and trust in anyone has been sucked right out of you.

 

then why do I trust my current girlfriend?

 

I just wouldn't trust someone that already betrayed me. Theres a difference my man.

 

But I know you say these things because you seem to HAVE to stay with your wife. I have been where you have been and refused to feel the way you do. You are in despair and are obsessing over this. I no longer obsess because she is no longer my problem.

 

 

In your life, do you ever offer words of encouragement for anyone?

 

Sure, I find it encouraging that people are not obliged to keep a cheating spouse. That is just my view of it. If you think you have to stay with a cheating spouse at any cost for whatever your reason, well my man...you have your reasons and good luck with that.

 

I offer the alternative view...and also, the realistic view. Do you REALLY think there will come a day that you will COMPLETELY forget what she has done?

 

Thats all I'm saying. And I do believe I told you to work on the marriage...just not do it out of fear that she will cheat again. What was wrong with that? I figured that would be highly encouraging? I guess not.

 

 

Ever forgive anyone for stupid and many times intentional decisions they make?

 

Sure, but cheating isn't one of them because cheating isn't a mistake for one thing.

 

 

I'm not stupid, I know my wife made the decisions she made - and I know she knows how to cheat.

 

Uh, then tell pkn that.....he is the one telling you that. I was highlighting what HE said.

 

 

But you know what, its not going to ruin my life like it evidently has yours.

 

It didn't ruin my life. It saved mine. Some people are content with living with a cheater....some are not. I am the latter. Plain and simple

 

 

 

So, why don't you do everyone a favor. Spend a little less time putting a negative, self-righteous spin on every entry you post, and a lot more time truly trying to help people - you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself.

 

Again, I told you to work on the marriage for the right reasons. I didn't want to see you working on it out of fear.

 

I suppose you just totally glossed over that. Yup, looks like you did.

 

And btw, I don't have a username on the lines of "scarred".

 

trust me my man, I'm on your side on this, again why I am telling you to work on your marriage for the right reasons. I don't see anything negative about that.

 

I do see negativity in telling someone pretty much, "do as she expects or you will be cheated on again" which is absolutely NOT what I would say to any BS and is more of what a WS would say to a BS.

[Heather1]

Yikes...that got ugly!

 

The affair "fog" thing isn't a quick decision like someone asking you to go for it. There's a book Gary Nueman put out that explains how & why affairs happen, etc.. That'll probably give you some answers as to the why. You & your wife are human beings. She got caught up in something a long time ago & somehow had the strength to get out of it before a complete train wreck. I'd give your wife some credit. Not discounting your feelings at all, just that it happened & she somehow got out of it.

[scarred]

Yikes...that got ugly!

 

The affair "fog" thing isn't a quick decision like someone asking you to go for it. There's a book Gary Nueman put out that explains how & why affairs happen, etc.. That'll probably give you some answers as to the why. You & your wife are human beings. She got caught up in something a long time ago & somehow had the strength to get out of it before a complete train wreck. I'd give your wife some credit. Not discounting your feelings at all, just that it happened & she somehow got out of it.

 

 

Heather - do you know the name of the book?

[Athena]

I always say there is no good reason to stay with a cheater.

 

 

Oh but I beg to differ!

There is a good reason to stay with a cheater, if one is a cheater them self! That way, fewer cheaters left to roam looking to betray faithful spouses!

[KismetGirl]

Scarred

 

If i remember your older posts correctly, you have always seemed very fixated on "what kind of sicko makes out with a pregnant woman who is of another man's child".

 

You really need to stop that. If you can't make you need to try therapy, because you will never find an answer that suits you or makes you feel satisfied. I have seen you get plenty of answers, from some men just find pregnant women beautiful, to a plethora of other reasons and none satisfy you, because its become a sort of obsesive image for you. You need to just move on from it. She didn't have sex with him , which in my opinion would be a much harder thing to overcome , especilly while pregnant. It was kissing. It was wrong, but it wasn't the end all of the world.

 

I understand its a recent discovery, but Ive seen far worse stories. You said yourself she has esteem issues and she was probably feeling emotional.

 

Your concerns shouldnt be what some other man was thinking when he kissed your wife, pregnant or otherwise. Your thoughts should be focused on moving forward with your life and your family, and that's it. People stray for any of a million reasons, and I have to tell you, most of them aren't really rational anyway, so trying to find an answer that magically placates you , I think, is going to be a never-ending endeavor for you.

 

You have a good life, right? You love your wife, right? YOU believe she never had sex with another man, and has had no infidelity since that brief kissing affair/EA, right?

 

Then that is all that matters. Forget the naysayers, forget the rationalities behind why a man might kiss a pregnant married woman not his own, forget it all. You focus on what is important or you will ruin a good thing over what eventually is but a blip on the grand scheme of your life.

 

You shoudl be thankful for all you have. There are people on here who have been married 25 years with 3 kids who find out their spouse had been having crazy sex from the cielings with half the neighborhood for years and years.

 

And there are people in the world who are alone, with no wife to love and no kids, and who die alone.

 

Your life, in the grand scheme of things, is pretty good, right?

 

So stop intentionally ruining what you have by obsessing over what doesn't matter. Be happy with the gifts you are given. Her infideltiy was unfortunate, but she told you about it, and more importantly, you believe her. So your issues aren't that you think , well, maybe she did have sex with the guy, or maybe the kid isn't mind, or maybe she still loves that guy, or maybe she's still cheating. In your heart you know none of that is a problem. She is faithful now, she is not sleeping with anyone else nor has she ever according to you, and everything is going well.

 

You will end up solving nothing with your obsessive thinking, trust me. All you will do is push her away, make both her and yourself nervous over nothing, and make problems where there were none before.

 

Be happy with life dude. So few people are these days, don't take for granted what you have now. That's all. Cheers.

[Reggie]

I'd get some counseling to help you deal with this. Your discovery is recent and it is a very big betrayal, very traumatic. You cannot simply turn off your mind and ignore it. Most folks' brains don't allow for this.

I think it is weird that both your pregnant wife and this guy were lying around in bed , necking, on several occassions without taking it further. I'd be skeptical about that.

I cannot imagine a decent guy hitting on a pregnant, married woman, regardless of how attractive pregnanacy is to some.

What has your wife done to get to the bottom of why she did this. Has she had therapy? If not, why not?

[scarred]

KismetGirl and others - I apologize for seeming fixated on something which for many of you may seem trivial in comparison to what others on this board have and are going through. Yes, in the overall scheme of things I have a good life.

 

That doesn't mean, however, that I don't feel pain from this recent discovery. I'm just processing that pain on these boards. I'm not trying to make it sound like my situation is as bad as most - it is not and I realize that fact.

 

My wife and I have used this recent revelation as a catalyst to improve our marriage. I'm more excited and happier about our relationship now than I have been probably since we got married. So, yes I am very fortunate and I won't forget that.

 

As for the point you made about my fixation on "what type of guy would do this with someone's pregnant wife" - yes, I guess that particularly bothers me. I know there is no logical reason - there really are "sickos" who get their jollies from this because either they think they are "in love" or in this case I think the guy just needed his ego stroked after about 6 or 7 years of his own marriage. Yes, that bothers me - and its easier for me to express those feelings on this board and through counseling that bring it up to my wife.

 

So, please don't take my comments as believing I'm going to ruin my marriage by hounding my wife continually with questions for which there is no logical answer. I'm smarter than that. I am, however, very glad I'm finding out about this now 14 years later than right after it happened. If that would have happened, the thought of this guy fooling around with my wife with my son at 2 months from birth in her belly... the other guy would have greatly regretted it....

[scarred]

Reggie - we've done enough discussion and with counseling that I'm confident there was no sex. This didn't really start until my wife was about 1 month pregnant. They saw each other at conferences - there was some "connection" (attraction, and he was paying lots of attention to her at a time I was pretty work focused) and it started slowly. My wife worked for the organization and he was a member who joined one of the committees she headed. The first time it was physical was one evening at a conference when he called her later in the evening to talk about committee business and they decided to get together in her room to talk - obviously I'm not stupid enough to know that my wife knew he was going to come on to her and there was a side of her that wanted it to happen. Anyway, it started slow with an acknowledgement of mutual attraction and some kissing as they said good night to each other that evening. By the next conference she was 4 months pregnant and obviously showing but they still got together and were kissing - longer this time but while sitting in chairs "connecting". By the next conference she was 7 months pregnant and they were making out on a bed. The final conference where anything physical happened was 3 months later - 1 month after she had the baby and only about 10 days after the baby had had surgery to correct a problem in his stomach. By that time, I think my wife was completely infatuated with this guy and they probably would have had sex but I think the guy got cold feet and realized he couldn't do that with a woman who had just had a baby. In other words, I think she was more infatuated with him than he was with her - he was getting his ego stroked and she was enthralled with him - simply from being with him for probably a total of 6 - 7 hours at conferences talking and kissing. She probably thought she was "in love" with him as I've read some of the other WS on this board describe the affair fog.

 

I'm positive they didn't have sex and that my wife has told me the truth about what happened - not all the details because I haven't asked - I don't need to know what the dreamy look was she had on her face when she would look into his eyes.

 

Even though I only found out a couple of months ago, I no longer have anger toward my wife. I've replaced that with working on making our marriage better - there has been quite a bit of disconnect during the 14 years since this happened - even though our marriage has been pretty decent. But, I am fascinated with the human mind - how a woman who just got pregnant with her husband's baby could need the attention of another man, how a man could possibly need to ego stroke from another woman other than his wife to the point he would make out with her even though she was very visibly pregnant, etc. No good rational answers I realize but it is terribly fascinating.

 

Oh, and by the way, since this happened, I've lost about 15 pounds have been working out with weights, running 15 - 20 miles a week. Look better than I did 20 years ago - and I'm a reasonably handsome guy anyway. Not doing it to have my own affair, but its also funny in hindsight how even though this happened a long time ago, I know it was a catalyst for me improving myself. Again, fascinating how the mind works.....

 

Read some Freud or Carl Jung sometime - its good stuff.

[Dexter Morgan]

I am, however, very glad I'm finding out about this now 14 years later than right after it happened. If that would have happened, the thought of this guy fooling around with my wife with my son at 2 months from birth in her belly... the other guy would have greatly regretted it....

 

you say that as if your "wife" isn't more guilty of betraying you.

 

If the other man would have regretted it, then your wife should have suffered a similar, if not more, consequence.....no?

[taylor]

She probably thought she was "in love" with him as I've read some of the other WS on this board describe the affair fog.

 

Or she may have just liked the way he made her feel. She may have just enjoyed the attention he was giving her...Or she may have had a strong sexual attraction to him and lust drove her into his arms.

 

 

 

But, I am fascinated with the human mind - how a woman who just got pregnant with her husband's baby could need the attention of another man,

 

Pregnant or not, a woman who is not getting attention from a husband at home may seek it from another man who is willing and able to give it to her. Being pregnant does not diminish a woman's need for attention or her need to feel desired. In fact, pregnancy may more than likely increase a woman's need for attention and assurance that she is still desireable.

 

I know when I was pregnant, there were times when I felt ugly and fat and undesireable. I needed that little extra assurance from my husband that he didn't mind the changes he saw in my body. I needed to still feel like a desireable woman...sexy...even with looming motherhood drawing nearer.

 

how a man could possibly need to ego stroke from another woman other than his wife to the point he would make out with her even though she was very visibly pregnant, etc.

 

He wasn't thinking about her pregnancy or her pending state of motherhood. He was looking past that...at a desireable woman. Something about her turned him on and I'm sure it wasn't her belly.

[65tr6]

I'm smarter than that. I am, however, very glad I'm finding out about this now 14 years later than right after it happened.

 

I am not WS. But I hear you loud and clear. My wife was not pregnant...My son was 4 when she started the affair. I asked her how in the world she could do that. Me taking care of him while she was screwing around with OM. That phase went quickly.

 

My advice is....dont obsess. When woman check out, to them, it does not matter what they are checking out of. It is not worth spending the time in over analyzing it. Your wife was possibily in love or infatuated with him. It does NOT matter. What matters is, are you willing to move forward with it ? Looks like you are. I am not saying dont talk about the affair or show her how much she hurt you, just dont obsess over "how could she do this with a little one on the way". Your story reminds me of that movie.."Waitress" ? I saw that with my wife after the d-day.

[Reggie]

Some folks, apparently, have a strong desire for external validation and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it, without regard to the damage they do to others. It must be somewhat scary knowing that your spouse is among this type person.

Funny thing about Ws's and their justifications, is that they seem to fail to realize that the Bs may be just as much in need of similar validation from the Ws. And, rarely is the WS giving as much to the relationship with the BS as he or she expects for him/herself. It is this sense of entitlement and the attendant lack of mutuality that amazes me about WSs. It is one of the reasons that an affair is often a sign of a personality disorder where the Ws is devoid of empathy and has an inflated sense of entitlement.

[scarred]

First - Dexter, I want to apologize for my comments from a couple of weeks ago. I don't know your situation so I can't fully appreciate what may be shaping your opinions and perspective. I am sorry, however, for picking a fight. As for your comment below. Yes, if I would have found out back when this happened, more than likely I would have divorced my wife - maybe not, but certainly a greater chance than there is finding out now. I've had too many years of marriage where we have dealt with some fairly significant child-rearing issues together to chuck it all based on some events which happened a long time ago. As for him, he would have been toast if I'd have found out back then. This guy wasn't in an affair fog - trust me on that based on the two conversations I had with him. He was getting his ego stroked by having another pretty woman agree to be with him - and the fact that she was pregnant he obviously did not care about - he obviously liked the attention which he started by continuing to pursue my wife which he admits. So, any guy who would do that with some other man's pregnant wife is scum - and I would have made sure he realized that in a very painful way (if I'd have found out back then, not now - now I think he is simply fortunate I didn't find out back then and he is still scum).

 

Taylor - my guess is she liked the way he made her feel - the idea that another attractive person is pursuing you would certainly create a great deal of arousal (for some/most people) and if you have low self-esteem which my wife has struggled with since child-hood then even more so. I wasn't ignoring my wife at the time but I obviously wasn't putting the full-court press on like this guy has admitted to doing - and if pregnant, I'm guessing my wife was feeling even less certain about herself and this guy validated her. Obviously lust plays into it - my wife has said there was a connection which included physical attraction. As for him, he liked having an attractive woman validate him as well. I am not at all excusing my wife's behavior, as selfish as it obviously was. But, I and our counselor who has spent time with her both believe this guy "preyed" on my wife to get his jollies - and my wife being such a low self-esteem person as she is and particularly was, soaked it up and it became like a drug - ie the "affair fog" phenomenon.

 

65tr6 - I've about gotten to the point of not obsessing anymore - being able to banter back and forth with those on this board have been very therapeutic. I'm not like the guy who was the husband in the "Waitress" movie. I've always been a caring, supportive husband. A bit too focused on work, particularly back when this happened, but not jealous, demanding, or controlling. Have always been very supportive of her as she struggled to find herself personally and professionally. Our personalities were different and we didn't really have any tools to help us work through those differences, so I'm sure at the time my wife may have clearly felt significant distance in our relationship as well as being pregnant and the hormones/mental state that can create for some women, and low self-esteem combined with another attractive man showing significant interest as well as her own lust which she didn't control contributed to this. She has said a big contributor to this was her inability at the time to maintain appropriate boundaries - which is a kind way of saying she was attracted to him, he was pursuing and she slid off the edge of a slippery slope and before she knew it she was hooked on the feeling.....

 

Thanks all. I think I can stop obsessing and go in search of the perfect opportunity for a revenge affair - didn't someone once say on here that if your spouse has an affair, you get a "freebie"?

[65tr6]

I'm not like the guy who was the husband in the "Waitress" movie. I've always been a caring, supportive husband.

lol, i thought you were going to say that. well, great minds think alike.

 

and go in search of the perfect opportunity for a revenge affair - didn't someone once say on here that if your spouse has an affair, you get a "freebie"?

 

ok, now that is a joke, right ?

[scarred]

Well - I wanted you to realize I'm not perfect but have been a pretty good guy.

 

As for the "freebie", yes I'm kidding. But, I suspect if I slid off that slope like my wife did, I wouldn't feel quite as bad as if she had never preceeded me - at least with the physical part. That being said, I'm not the type of guy who once I went down that path I could stop at kissing - so, I'll probably do my best to refrain from going down that path....

[taylor]

Well - I wanted you to realize I'm not perfect but have been a pretty good guy.

 

As for the "freebie", yes I'm kidding. But, I suspect if I slid off that slope like my wife did, I wouldn't feel quite as bad as if she had never preceeded me - at least with the physical part. That being said, I'm not the type of guy who once I went down that path I could stop at kissing - so, I'll probably do my best to refrain from going down that path....

 

So what you are saying is if you kissed another woman you wouldn't be able to stop and put your boundaries back in place?

 

Even your wife and her scumbag OM were able to do that...

 

You are going to refrain from going down the affair path? You don't sound too convincing.

[taylor]

But, I and our counselor who has spent time with her both believe this guy "preyed" on my wife to get his jollies

 

Isn't it possible this man also had low self-esteem and sought to validate himself by attracting the attention of women. He didn't get too many jollies...they only kissed.

 

 

 

Thanks all. I think I can stop obsessing and go in search of the perfect opportunity for a revenge affair - didn't someone once say on here that if your spouse has an affair, you get a "freebie"?

 

I hear a sense of entitlement talking, don't you, Dexter?

 

OP, you could just contact the scumbag OM. Perhaps he has a little black book of affair partners he'd be willing to share with you.

[scarred]

Taylor - no, I'm not thinking about having an affair - at all. But, I don't really think my wife was prior to this happening either. I think it just happened - which is probably how it happens for most who have affairs - due to circumstances, opportunity - out of town with another attractive person showing interest, our own character failures, lack of connection with spouse, etc.

 

What I'm saying is - I would never ever (yes I'm certain of this) mess around with someone else's pregnant wife unless I couldn't stand my wife and thought the other woman was the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with - ie I would divorce my wife and propose to her - no ifs ands or buts. That didn't happen in this case. The guy simply wanted to get his ego stroked.

 

I'm not sure I could stop myself from having sex if I had an affair which is why I've not engaged in one although I've had several women make overtures since I've gotten married - I knew it would lead to sex and I couldn't live with myself if I had sex with someone else outside our marriage - although the kissing sounds kind of fun!!!

[scarred]

Thanks Taylor - that is a great idea. I will call the OM. Because you are right, I am entitled to kiss another woman - are you cute?

[Dexter Morgan]

First - Dexter, I want to apologize for my comments from a couple of weeks ago. I don't know your situation so I can't fully appreciate what may be shaping your opinions and perspective. I am sorry, however, for picking a fight.

 

don't sweat it. I call it like I see it and don't sugarcoat anything.

 

Usually with a response like that, i give it right back. But believe it or not, I'm in your corner. So I am not going to fire back at someone that has been betrayed. About the worst of it may be saying something along the lines of, "then by all means, keep her and take your lumps"..not saying that to you, just an example of the worst I'd give a fellow BS back.

 

I've been where you are my man, I don't say things just because they sound good. I have just pushed emotions aside and thought things through.

 

Hopefully the turmoil you can be dealt with, whether you keep her or end up ditching her in the future. You deserve to live a life without fearing that it may happen again.

 

 

As for your comment below. Yes, if I would have found out back when this happened, more than likely I would have divorced my wife - maybe not, but certainly a greater chance than there is finding out now. I've had too many years of marriage where we have dealt with some fairly significant child-rearing issues together to chuck it all based on some events which happened a long time ago. As for him, he would have been toast if I'd have found out back then.

 

Understandable...but if HE were to be toast, then you'd have to be equally, and more so, angry enough at your wife and be willing to dole out the same type of retaliation to her...afterall, even though the OM is not absolved of any wrong doing, your wife was the one that directly betrayed you....you should be more angry with her.

 

 

This guy wasn't in an affair fog - trust me on that based on the two conversations I had with him. He was getting his ego stroked by having another pretty woman agree to be with him - and the fact that she was pregnant he obviously did not care about - he obviously liked the attention which he started by continuing to pursue my wife which he admits. So, any guy who would do that with some other man's pregnant wife is scum

 

Agreed. But what does that make your wife?

 

I agree with your sentiments to a T and you have every right to be angry with the OM, but you should have been more so at your wife.

 

 

and I would have made sure he realized that in a very painful way (if I'd have found out back then, not now - now I think he is simply fortunate I didn't find out back then and he is still scum).[/qutoe]

 

If back then you wanted to dole out some pain to him, you would have to have been prepared to divorce your wife(since obviously its not acceptable to hit a woman....or anyone for that matter)

 

Good luck my man.

[Dexter Morgan]

I hear a sense of entitlement talking, don't you, Dexter?

 

well he already said he was kidding.

 

But you know what?...I really don't know how I'd feel about the idea of a revenge affair.

 

I know I'd never do it. I would refuse to become what I despise and know that instead of cheating in revenge, that I'd break up first.

 

But even though I'd never do it...and I'd still have a very low view of it, I'd almost think to myself that I wouldn't blame them.

 

But would still advise leaving before cheating in return.

[taylor]

Thanks Taylor - that is a great idea. I will call the OM. Because you are right, I am entitled to kiss another woman - are you cute?

 

MOOT QUESTION, scarred. I am married and have no intention of ever kissing another man besides my husband. Almost did. Would not have been worth it. Learned that lesson the hard way.

[scarred]

Taylor - that was the right answer! No, I have no intention of going down that path. Just pissed my wife did. But we're all imperfect in some way - she had her major screw-up and it didn't end up worse. Thanks for the feedback.

 

Dexter - all of your comments are correct. I guess I'm giving my wife the "benefit of the doubt" because we've been through so much else together and I know a little bit about her from back then that no one else knows about and I haven't disclosed which helps me understand a bit better why she might have been in an unusual mental state during this period. Doesn't excuse her behavior but helps me understand it a bit better. But, I simply can't fathom a guy wanting to mess around with a pregnant woman - just boggles my mind. I guess I'm one of those guys that believes there is a code amongst "real men" and not only did this guy cross it but he did it while my son was present (in the womb). Guys like that deserve even worse judgement in my mind.