Dexter Morgan Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Where the hec do you get off saying.........people like you?? Does that not bother anyone esle? No Have you walked in her shoes? No, and I never will. And to hit her and not let her up, etc tells me alot about her husband. I agree. But I do have to wonder, was this the only time he has ever done this? doesn't make it right and he needs to check himself, but he may have been in shock and did so out of a fit of anger he never has had before. Either way, she should have had the cops called on his butt. Unacceptable. And if this is happened before, she needs to get away from him.
Dexter Morgan Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I confessed EVERY THING to my DH (likely more than I needed-he obsessed over every detail for weeks and I answered and answered) and have spent two months rebuilding and recommitting so I know this one will stick. My Marriage (12 years) has been challenging and please don't hate me, I was much mroe attracted to OM (a former international model) than to DH (not a former model) so basically now your husband is probably feeling highly inadequate since now he knows that any pretty face better than his that comes along and you would probably be on it. so was that it? You just were attracted to this other guy? If thats the case, he isn't the last guy you are going to be attracted to. However, I love and respect him deeply and unconditionally and know beyond doubt it's the highest and therefore must be the happiest choice for me to stay (we have two dear boys). I am intensely creative and all of that expression got lost under raising two kids and managing our business and doing service for 12 years. I felt I was half alive. DH is not at all creative nor that interested in my creativity. so you are blaming him OM is an artist and lit a fire under my self-expression daily-that was a HUGE part of the appeal. DH is trying but frankly, he's just not that interested in that part of me. And i feel I am dying without expressing that part of me. I was a lifelong artist when we met and I quit all of it to take care of him, the kids and the business. Now I don't have the heart for it because I have it so tied in with OM. If you are "so tied in with OM", then you are NOT "giving it your all" as the title would suggest. There will be no recovery if you are still pining for the OM. And as far as the OM making you feel "alive"....well of course. he doesn't have to go through the daily trials of marriage and parenthood with you. He is emotionally available and new. Try your family lifestyle with the OM for a few years, and you'll find the same thing more than likely. I am weeping as I write this. I KNOW i was wrong-I didn't even kiss him intimately but we were physical (inappropriate hugging etc.) and certainly no sex but it was an EA with love letters (emails) etc. I did NOT talk about my marriage much at all and RARELY spoke about my DH to OM unless it was respectful. However, if he did what I did, i would be deeply hurt so I UNDERSTAND. I have listened and listened and sometimes DH has been downright abusive about this. Just about this? he is angry, and justifiably so. I said some pretty nasty things to my x-wife that I thought would NEVER come out of my mouth after i found out she was a cheat. I fairly quickly decided I wasn't going to live like that...hence the "x"-wife part. Now if your husband is physically abusive over this, there is NO excuse for that. But if he yells at you and even calls you names over this...its really to be expected. You betrayed him. Other times he's great. I was incredibly honest and answered his hundreds of questions about what I did and did not do. All the while I felt like I wanted to die because I missed OM. My question is, my DH keeps talking about this daily (it's been two months of NC, four months since D-Day) and blames and accuses me. I was wrong, I am doing all i can to reestablish trust How can you do all you can to reestablish trust when you are still pining for the other man. maybe you need to get over the OM before you can claim you are doing all you can. And of course he talks about this daily. This is one of the more serious blows you could ever deal a spouse. If you think your mind wouldn't be spinning in 100 directions if you found out he betrayed you, then you are sorely mistaken. (goes without saying but i will, I'm an open book-all email accounts open to him etc) How much do I have to listen to before it's ENOUGH? as much as it takes. don't expect to get a free pass quickly. You need to take your lumps if you are truly interested in waiting to see if he can get over this. Because you have exiled him to a LONG TIME of thinking about your betrayal of him. Why should you get off easy and quick when you have sentenced him to this kind of torture that he will be thinking about on a daily basis for a long time. It may be weeks, months, or even a year or two. But make no mistake, even if he comes to a point where he isn't thinking about this on a daily basis, and that day will come, he WILL think about it from time to time and he will reel inside, he just may choose to bottle it up. This is what you have done to him. don't expect him to just get over it. He was distant and withdrawn to me before this happened-it didn't come out of the blue. and still I was WRONG. However, if he keeps this up, I don't know if I'll want to stay. Again, you betrayed him. If you are pining for Mr. Gorgeous, and aren't willing to suffer the consequences of your actions, then he must not be that important to you and you should just get a divorce. People who cheat and want their victim to just "get over it" don't need to be married. The BS needs to be spared from that attitude. However, about half the time, he's great and much to his credit he saw how he was driving me away and has stopped withdrawing for the most part-which is one of the many things I love about him. But how long do I need to listen to affronts on my morality and how long do I need to sweetly keep opening my emails in front of him and telling him everywhere I went and reassuring him that I have had NC and will continue NC for as long as he says I need to. And how long will I keep hurting deeply for the OM and my own art along with him. See, here is the thing, you want him to get over this and are wondering how long you have to put up with this, all the time you are still pining over the other man. Do you not see the unfairness here? If you are going to work on your marriage, then you have to put up with it for as long as it takes. It may take a year or two. Now I wouldn't expect him to feel the need after 2 or 3 years, but everyone is different. But here you are with the attitude that you are "putting up" with his oversight of your activities when you are STILL wanting the other man.
Lizzie60 Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I see 2 HUGE MISTAKES here: 1) to divulge this secret.. honestly this was foolish.. you could just have ended it.. and keep it for yourself.. women are way more forgiving... men are NOT.. 2) to have abandon being yourself (artist) for your H and your kids... what did it brought you.. nothing.. except his selfishness. My advice.. I say, have a serious talk with him.. then if nothing changes.. move on.. become the artist you've always wanted to be.. live YOUR life. It's never too late.. Good luck!
Dexter Morgan Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I see 2 HUGE MISTAKES here: 1) to divulge this secret.. honestly this was foolish.. you could just have ended it.. and keep it for yourself what good would that have done? She can't get over the OM even AFTER telling. if she tried to keep it to herself, she'd just end up getting in contact with OM again women are way more forgiving... men are NOT.. And who says we have to be? I don't expect anyone to forgive...blindly or otherwise. And if forgiveness isn't in the cards, the R needs to end. 2) to have abandon being yourself (artist) for your H and your kids... what did it brought you.. nothing.. except his selfishness. Who said she had to abandon being herself? She simply said he isn't into what she does. I didn't hear a word from her that he forbids her to be creative, he just isn't creative himself. Just like my SO is into scrapbooking. She can keep doing it..she enjoys it. i don't. I don't have to be involved in it for her to keep enjoying it. Just as she isn't into golf and I don't need her to be involved so I can enjoy it. In fact, with golf I'd rather her NOT be involved since it takes her 20 strokes on a par 3. So saying he is selfish is inaccurate unless he strictly forbids her to be artistic.
The Collector Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 They didn't even kiss. This 'emotional affair' business is a load of hooey. But the story is so familiar. Marry for the security, get bored and have fling with the type you actually find attractive. And anyone that has done 12 years without getting bored please throw the first stone. What's the solution? To let most men know the woman they marry will probably only behave and stick around while the kids are growing up, and then probably take half your stuff? Or forget this whole life-partnership business? Or, and I may be onto something here, both sides work at solving inevitable problems. Sounds like a plan the OP is trying to make work. 5 years to recover trust? I'd just piss off if the other person couldn't show a bit of understanding and forgiveness before that.
cherrymoon Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 If there has been violence, I am wondering about this situation. He held her down and she couldn't get away. When my H found out I had already decided I would accept a slap. I had no idea what would happen did. Anyway If there is violence and fear then it can be extremely hard for the Ws to have compassion for the BS. I may not be making sense here but I think this is one of the reasons that she felt so impatient. In my cause and this may mirror hers (or maybe not) If for years there has been cruelty and nastiness that never gets dealt with and then violence it is soooo unbelievably hard not to just throw it at them and blame them for the affair. In my case I listened to I never would have done that if you hadn't had an affair. Just as BS need to see remorse for their actions people who experience fear and violence need to see remorse and also not have the blame shifted. If her situation is anything similar to mine then this gets very complicated and can sadly become more violent. I had to be brave (i don't care who gets sickened by that word because it is true) and bury what happened until he was strong enough to deal with it too. I put my hurt to one side and work on my failings without blaming him. i had to prove myself. 2 yrs on we are scratching the surface of what happened to me and when it gets too much for him he plays the blame card but I won't accept it. We are making leaps and bounds. We are the couple that no therapist will touch because of the violence. I went for domestic violence counselling and it opened my eyes on what was violence. I was given tools to deal with what happened and he went for his own counselling. We will be ok. I will be ok. And he is right it wouldn't have happened but we all have choices. I wish you the best of luck Choosinglove and I hope it was just a once off. Funny though i believe once a beater NOT always a beater.
65tr6 Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Your husband's pain and hurt is manifesting as anger. Recognize that he, too, is grieving losses...the loss of his marriage as it was, the loss of trust in you, the loss of the innocence of your love. The betrayal to his heart is cutting him like a knife. He is also facing tremendous fear...fear of losing the life he had, the wife he had...fear of the unknown. You may answer all his questions. He may ask them over and over again. It's not enough for him to just hear the answers. He has to process them. That takes time. And he has to ACCEPT the answers. That will take even more time. It will take months for his confusion to clear. And know that he may NEVER forgive. Some betrayed spouses just can't do it. And if he can't, your marriage will never recover fully. Great post...Spoken like a true BS (I know you are not) but it does help a lot when you start "seeing" things from other side, doesn't it ? Just wanted to add that anger though natural in these situations, depends on the individual how they channel it. I was not one bit angry with my wife (strange as it may sound) after what she had done. OP, I missed the part about the physical abuse....You need to let your husband know....take care of yourself.
Owl Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I see 2 HUGE MISTAKES here: 1) to divulge this secret.. honestly this was foolish.. you could just have ended it.. and keep it for yourself.. women are way more forgiving... men are NOT.. 2) to have abandon being yourself (artist) for your H and your kids... what did it brought you.. nothing.. except his selfishness. My advice.. I say, have a serious talk with him.. then if nothing changes.. move on.. become the artist you've always wanted to be.. live YOUR life. It's never too late.. Good luck! If these were REALLY the "issues" (which the are clearly not), then the only REAL issue would have been the OP getting into ANY kind of committed relationship of any kind at all...ever. I would agree that these would be "issues" for you, Lizzie...given your specific...ummm....lifestyle. But it's not clear that the OP here wants to live like you do. But for people who actually enjoy a committed relationship to one person...they clearly are NOT the "base issues" here.
65tr6 Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 They didn't even kiss. This 'emotional affair' business is a load of hooey. I agree with you. For women, though, PA is only a logical extension of EA. Most dont even differentiate it (during the affair). Damage wise, it is no less. But the story is so familiar. Marry for the security, get bored and have fling with the type you actually find attractive. It is amazing how many posts I have seen here in the last few weeks similar to OP....They all seem to follow text book script. What's the solution? To let most men know the woman they marry will probably only behave and stick around while the kids are growing up, and then probably take half your stuff? Or forget this whole life-partnership business? great question. I dont know if there is one. Except hope it does not happen to you. I really wish WWs ask themselves the question "What kind of an example I am I setting for my kids" ? "Do I want my son or daughter to cheat like I did ?" Really....I think it takes that one moment in their wayward life when they innocently get involved with OM/MM. Next thing you know they are knee-deep in this s*. Now they want out or think that they are too undeserving to be loved. Too late the damage has been done. Worse, now it takes months/years to build all that back. In some cases, it is gone for good.
wicar Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 A cheater can never create, a cheater can only destroy. Boldjack... this part is not true. Cheating has been always flying high in artistic circles. Trust me on this... I am a painter with "some" international recognition... artists actually cheat quite often. I am not trying to say that cheating is O.K. I am just stating the fact. But I have to say that "the rest of the world" doesn't seem to be far behind right now. So what do you mean artists have the right to cheat. Then we can take it this way, if you wanna cheat your partner you can start by becoming an artist. Is it???
wicar Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 To all-Thanks for taking the time to reply. To answer Reggie's questions, I have done EVERYTHING you asked and more!!!! I confessed everything without being asked. Yes, I wrote a NC letter. Yes, I have been trying to get my husband to marriage counseling for YEARS. He has not wanted to go but has been willing to. He did go with me a few times but was closed during the sessions and not much shifted. Yes, I gave him full access to every form of communication (email, cell etc). At my request we just did a relationships workshop and workbook and i just enrolled us in another that lasts three days. Yes, I recommitted to him and have been earning his trust in every way ever since. I have been the one to initiate almost every effort to heal our marriage for most of the 12 years. When I told him about the EA, he slapped me and threw me to the floor and then would not let me get up or leave until I crawled away. And you are all (I notice only BS responded) telling me I am the abusive one and have all the many problems you list. Didn't I start the post saying I was WRONG- I know it and I have taken many steps to be there for my husband in every way ever since I ended it and told him everything? Are you REALLY trying to help or just unleash your own anger at me? I'm SORRY for my husband and I'm sorry for your pain as well but I do hope you're more compassionate with your partners. I would really love to hear from others as well as BS. Thanks So you cheated, he slapped so I suppose it means the last one who does the mistake is the wrong person. I agree he has no rights to slap you, eventhough you cheated him, backstabbed him, made him feel like a piece of sh**, betrayed him for a better face but still I am very sure he shouldn't have slapped you. you want him to get over it and trust you 100% ok I get it, still whatever hard you try whatever mc you go to you can never get his 100% trust back, I think even 50% is very hard. You know he might say and even pretend to trusts you, but inside he will never trust you fully again. When you too go out whenever you come accross a nice looking guy he will doubt you...it is human nature. The other's might say that it is possible to make him trust you, but take my word, even if you think he trusts you it's faking. I really think it will be very hard for you guys to go along the road. It is very hard for you to convince him to trust you, and he can be more and more abusive in the future, it is his pain coming out as anger towards you. I strongly believe no one has the right to physicaly or mentaly hurt another human being. Unfortunatly your husband hurted you physically. His actions can never be justified. I don't know whether he did something like that before but, if he slapped you for the first time then you are the main cause of it. You have made a man become an animal, because of your cheating. What you have caused him is an emotional assault, which is far more painful and long lasting than a physical assault. Your reason, cheating cause the other guy had more creativity etc... more than you husband does not give you the right to do so. The best think you can do is to tell him the truth about your feelings for the other man and divorce him, cause you never know, in the future how vilont he might become, may be a divorce can stop him from getting into jail.
Reggie Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Why is this being characterized as an EA? She said there was a physical component. They both hurt the BS, but it is interesting that she does not consider hugging and groping as physical. As for not waitng the lenght of time it normally takes to recover, that is her choice. Folks just do not get past this very quickly. That is the reality and what many cheaters fail to realize until busted or confessing. Move on and free your husband if you are not attracted to him and love him so little, if at all. I have no idea how being artistic factors into this in her mind. I'm sure her husband has made similar sacrifices in curtailing some of his interests. It goes with being married with young kids and having to grind it out to provide.
Dexter Morgan Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 They didn't even kiss. This 'emotional affair' business is a load of hooey. But the story is so familiar. Marry for the security, get bored and have fling with the type you actually find attractive. And anyone that has done 12 years without getting bored please throw the first stone. This is an inaccurate way to look at it. It should be let anyone that has done 12 years without getting bored AND without cheating or straying, emotional or otherwise, cast the first stone *Dex starts looking on the ground for a nice jagged one*
Author choosinglove Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 THANKS to those who gave some great advice and support. To answer some questions, the man I had the EA (which was NOT a PA as well) with is NOT married nor involved with anyone. He was single. What do I call him (MM, OM?). And NO, my best friend of 23 years did not suddenly abandon me because of the EA-they abandoned me right before it which is partly why I started becoming close friends with the EA-he filled a void. He was someone who I've known longer than my husband (14 years) who was JUST a friend first. And unfortunately, that is not the first time my H slapped me. Two other times (long before the EA)-neither left a mark. So to the posters who keep saying I 'deserved it' because of the EA, I don't think your POV is justified. And after 11 and a half years of fidelity, I really don't think it's fair to say that "She's obviously going after any prettier face".I am really confused now-the posts seem to be widely varied depending, understandably, on whether one is a BS or whatever initials signify the one who strays (WS?). Do you (either) really think a EA is harder than a PA? Wouldn't it be much harder if it were both? Please, can any other WS/BS (especially of EA only) tell me of other websites/books they've found especially helpful? Thanks.
gopher Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 THANKS to those who gave some great advice and support. To answer some questions, the man I had the EA (which was NOT a PA as well) with is NOT married nor involved with anyone. He was single. What do I call him (MM, OM?). And NO, my best friend of 23 years did not suddenly abandon me because of the EA-they abandoned me right before it which is partly why I started becoming close friends with the EA-he filled a void. He was someone who I've known longer than my husband (14 years) who was JUST a friend first. And unfortunately, that is not the first time my H slapped me. Two other times (long before the EA)-neither left a mark. So to the posters who keep saying I 'deserved it' because of the EA, I don't think your POV is justified. And after 11 and a half years of fidelity, I really don't think it's fair to say that "She's obviously going after any prettier face".I am really confused now-the posts seem to be widely varied depending, understandably, on whether one is a BS or whatever initials signify the one who strays (WS?). Do you (either) really think a EA is harder than a PA? Wouldn't it be much harder if it were both? Please, can any other WS/BS (especially of EA only) tell me of other websites/books they've found especially helpful? Thanks. Why didn't the EA turn into a PA?
Author choosinglove Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 It didn't become a PA because I didn't allow it to and he didn't press it
troubadour Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 So what do you mean artists have the right to cheat. Then we can take it this way, if you wanna cheat your partner you can start by becoming an artist. Is it??? Wicar, you have to try to read with comprehension. I also would like to mantion that one doesn't become an artist by choice... it is a matter of talent. A true talent is a gift not a choice... actually it is a very rare gift. Unfortunately, adjectives like creative and artistic belong to a grup of the most abused words today as we, as sociaty, are getting more and more narcissistic and everyone wants to feel special. I hope it will help you to clear your confusion.
signedin2008 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 And unfortunately, that is not the first time my H slapped me. Two other times (long before the EA)-neither left a mark. Tell us about those two times. What happened and how long ago was that? Do you have any kids? If so, how old?
Reggie Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 You can call it what you want , but it was more than an EA if you were hugging etc . Bill Clinton might agree with you, though. The violence is really bad, I agree.
Author choosinglove Posted March 13, 2009 Author Posted March 13, 2009 You can call it what you want , but it was more than an EA if you were hugging etc . Bill Clinton might agree with you, though. The violence is really bad, I agree. Reggie, Hugging is a FAR cry from oral sex (in reference to your Bill Clinton remark) I did NOT kiss him, NO genital contact whatsoever. Nothing close. That is NOT Bill Clinton.
Author choosinglove Posted March 13, 2009 Author Posted March 13, 2009 This is an inaccurate way to look at it. It should be let anyone that has done 12 years without getting bored AND without cheating or straying, emotional or otherwise, cast the first stone *Dex starts looking on the ground for a nice jagged one* Dexter, so now you're looking for a 'nice jagged stone' to throw at me? You have made only angry, mean posts to me and I have said NOTHING unkind or even directly to you. Is that really the point of this forum? Please stop now.
tami-chan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Hi choosinglove! I actually can understand why you chose to have an emotional affair. Your husband (ironically, a therapist, himself) did not fill some of your basic needs(recognition, validation) and not only that, he also disregarded your plea to seek help in your marriage long before your EA. He is arrogant and selfish. The only reason why he is ANGRY at you is because you insulted him by going to another man. No loving, unselfish husband would stifle or ignore a very important part of you-your being an artist. He should have nurtured you, as you have nurtured your children and him. That I understand why you chose to go outside of your marriage to seek validation of your WHOLE person does not mean, I think it WAS the best solution, I don't. There must be some compromise out there, but I, myself do not know what it is. Some people here do-they are also the ones who know ALL the answers to all of life's mysteries Anyway since you have now broken the EA and realized that you love your husband despite his shortcomings, it is really not for you to demand when he heals...if you love him enough, you wait and you endure..However, how much of your life can you spare waiting for this man (yet, again)? Remember, you gave up a huge part of yourself to sustain the marriage and waited for him to realize that you need to be allowed and supported in that aspect of your life? Or you can just tell him...that you are not going to answer any more questions about the EA (and mean it). Tell him that you are not going to tolerate the verbal and physical abuse from him. (and mean it). He is either willing to work on the marriage and get professional help or not. Be ready to leave your marriage.
Mr. Lucky Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Dear Taylor, Owl and others, THANK YOU for taking the time to give me really helpful, compassionate advice-all of which I can act upon immediately and all of which was supportive and positive. Frankly, after several posts where BS just seemed to want to direct their anger at me with no intent whatsoever to educate or support, I was never going to post again. That's exactly the sense of entitlement that came across in your original post. I find it ironic that you say that you don't understand why your H feels the way he does yet you reject the input from those that have walked in his shoes. Perhaps the "BS who just seemed to want to direct their anger at me" are trying to give you some insight into the pain your cheating caused him. If you listened, you'd know that going back on your promise of NC was a serious error and that a couple of months are just a small part of the recovery time. Let your guard down a little bit... Mr. Lucky
Author choosinglove Posted March 13, 2009 Author Posted March 13, 2009 Hi, This is my last post but I wanted to say to those who took the time to give me helpful, caring advice and support, THANK YOU. You are appreciated and wonderful and I hope you get all the support you give returned multiplied! Blessings and Light to you. I wish you the healing and love you so richly deserve. To those who use this forum to judge others and say unsupportive and unproductive things when they can't pretend to know enough about them to do so, I hope you also get the support you need to actually BE of support to others. I, frankly, don't want to be the recipient of your misplaced anger. I won't be reading or posting here anymore. I wish all of you the very best. Peace to you.
Reggie Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Sorry, I thought you wrote that the two of you engaged in inappropriate hugging( I assume that means you expressed your romantic feelings physically. This is a minor point, as EA's are just as much a betrayal. But, based on your description, it went past confiding in each other, expressing feelings verbally, etc. I suppose what constitutes a PA is defined differently by different people. Clinton drew the line further down the line than you, and still did not consider oral sex as sex. I don't think this is all that important, as betrayal is betrayal. I just find it interesting how, despite going further than merely emoting, you call it an EA. And, Tami, I missed the part about her husband stifling her creativity. Apparently, he has been physically abusive in the past and currently and that is absolutely wrong. But, I did not see her allege that he had forced her to abandon her interests or stifle her in any way. When my kids were born, I had to give up many of my pursuits and put some of my interests and aspirations on hold. It was not my wife's fault .I had no resentment, although I missed them sometimes. It was my choice. Most parents do this. Choosing acknowledges that her H has a different make up than her. Her makeup is neither better or worse. I suspect that if his interests are differentand he has different strengths, he may have felt similarly about her inability to fully participate in those things he holds important. And, going into this, she could see he was not a supermodel or artistic. Yet, she willingly vowed to remain faithful. No one forced her and she went in with her eyes open. Using your logic, her husband is entitled to cheat, as well, should he feel she is not cerebral enough, busty enough, whatever.
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