penumbra Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I was extremely vulnerable when this situation began. I have a history of childhood abandonment, emotional and sexual abuse, which has led to a series of bad choices in my adult relationships, sometimes physically and always emotionally abusive in nature. When I made contact via email with my MM for professional reasons, I was on the tail end of an incredibly painful, verbally abusive and towards the end, physically abusive relationship (which has ended in a restraining order). MM and I had met and worked together a few years ago on a short term project (7 months) in another country and had not been in contact since then. Then, almost half a year ago, I contacted him for professional reasons, asking for a professional favor on behalf of a friend. I was surprised that he responded to my request and not only that, asked if I were interested in working with him again. Why was I surprised at his response? Because he is a very well-known man and highly successful in his field of work. Although I knew he would remember me, as we had worked closely together, I had not expected him to respond at all, let alone with a job offer. Needless to say, I was astonished and flattered. But I was also wary, because he had lost his temper with me (very high pressure situation) on a couple of occasions when we worked together before, something which I later addressed, and for which I received a sincere apology, one that my therapist said could not have been better expressed. He began opening me up via daily email correspondence, asking more personal questions. We admitted that there had been a spark and a deep sense of "knowing" between us when we had first met but that the timing had been off. I was heartbroken at the time, caught up in a long term (3 yr) unrequited love story with another person we were working with. As our email conversation grew more personal, we discovered that we had a startling amount in common, both intellectually and spiritually. He hinted at a sexual element early on, smoothly weaving it into our conversations (no, that did not escape my notice and made me wary at first) and I was attracted to his intellect and his attentiveness, as was he. We developed an incredible rapport and revealed a lot about ourselves to each other with daily contact, first by email, then by IM and phone. It turned out that he has a painful history of abandonment, much like mine. He began expressing that he was falling in love with me. After having been told I was worthless, useless, screamed/shouted at, shunned and ignored for days and weeks on end without touch or acknowledgement from my now xBF of three years, this man's apparent admiration and attention was a salve to the soul and difficult to resist, although I knew I was vulnerable and was guarded, due to this fact. I was not aware he was married; however, as it became clear that his intentions were becoming romantic, I asked him if he were attached. He reacted with apparent surprise. "Of course I am - Didn't you know?" He claimed that he had thought that I knew, as everyone had known, with whom we had worked. I had not known, of course, and told him that I was uncomfortable with where our relationship seemed to be going, considering his relationship status. I inquired more about his M, which is open in nature, according to his description. He travels and is away from home a great deal and I understood how this might make sense in his situation. In general, it seems like he and his W live almost entirely separate lives. I kept asking questions. I told him that I know about open relationships and that open means all the way open, meaning that nothing is kept secret. He said that our situation is different and that it could be "destructive". And that he wasn't ready or willing to tell. In short, I resisted a a great deal, due to the lack of clarity and evasiveness of some of his answers, but succumbed in the end and it became a full-blown EA. He says that he has never felt this way before (which I took with a heavy grain of salt, of course, because it is easy to say this), that I am the best thing that has ever happened to him, that when we had begun our discovering of each other, that it was if everything suddenly made sense (as if he had found what was missing). We truly astound each other and connect on every level, and it is incredible, and amazing. He has been there for me through everything these past few months, even from a distance, and has been a catalyst to many positive changes taking place in my life. If nothing else comes of this, he has been a wonderful and supportive friend and I truly feel our relationship is based on friendship, first and foremost, although the physical attraction is overpowering. With his love and support, I have found the courage to leave a hopelessly abusive situation and have regained much of my life and happiness back. I have begun reconnecting with friends, from whom I was isolated for so long due to a possessive/jealous xBF, and I am now taking care of myself, investing time and energy into myself, going back to the activities I once enjoyed, gaining confidence and pride. It has pleased him to see these changes in me and has been a rewarding experience for us both. We have fallen deeply in love. Or maybe only I have and he is going through the motions? Maybe he made me fall in love with how I feel when I am "with" him? I always doubt everything, so it is not easy for me to be in denial and naive about such things, especially because I have had friends and acquaintances who have been in this situation, before. Despite everything, a realistic part of me has always kept quiet watch, waiting for the other shoe to drop. He has been absolutely wonderful in all respects, but there is just one glaring problem - He is married. I appreciate that he doesn't speak about his W negatively or at all, really, because it is disrespectful. It doesn't sound like there is anything particularly wrong in their M, from what I can tell. Only that she is not who she was when they married. Whatever that means...? I also note his loyalty to his W by not making rash moves based on new feelings of being "in love". It would be difficult for me to respect a man who did so. After several months, we felt the need to see each other in person. He was the first to suggest it, just when the thought had entered my own mind. I feel that he practically reads my mind. It seems I need only to think of something and he already is speaking about it. This incredible connection was only magnified by our visit in person. We met in another country for a few days and it was more incredible than we had ever imagined. We connect on every level and I have never felt anything like it. It was explosive and easy, all at once. We found each other easy to be with... It was both comfortable and passionate. Which only makes the situation that much more confusing and difficult, now that I am solidly back in my own reality, away from him and feeling the weight of that reality. There are so many unanswered questions and I don't really know where this could possibly go. And I don't want it to end in heartache. But isn't that how these things tend to go... At least, in most cases? I am trying to remain realistic and balanced, to not get carried away by emotion, which I have a tendency to do. I don't like secrets and have never intentionally set out to hurt anyone. I hate to be in a situation that lacks integrity and I am ashamed of my weakness for not finding my way out of this, or for have fallen into it in the first place. However, I also understand that it happens. People do fall in love under less than ideal circumstances. But what is the best way to handle it? When I returned home, I nearly broke it off with him... As I see that he is a man that is loyal, but faithless. And I have told him many times that I need a man that is devoted to me. He said that there were certain things he would have to "give up" in order for us to be together. It would not be easy, I know... He is used to getting what he wants, I'm sure, as he is in a position with frequent opportunities. That is part of the reason I resisted giving in. But surely, he could "give certain things up", if his many words were true. And actions speak louder than words. So does inaction. Inaction speaks loudly and clearly. He is twice my age and a very accomplished man. Honestly, hasn't he had enough "experience" by now? Will no amount of conquests satisfy his sad childhood emptiness, I wonder? Does he not recognize this? I know that I can not change him. I see how we are attracted to those with similar childhood issues... And I am well aware that part of our attraction lies in our similar backgrounds. But I feel we can either aggravate those issues or be compassionate and healing to each other. By continuing to be involved with each other under the present terms, I feel we are doing the former, not the latter. And all parties are in for being deeply hurt. He brought up the job proposal again while I was visiting and I said I did not think it wise. He looked obviously disappointed but said he wasn't, when I called him on it. I don't think he is being honest with himself. And if a man can not be honest with himself, then how can he be open and honest with anyone else? Thankfully, we are far enough away from each other that I have enough distance and time to think. And think. And think. And rethink. Thank you for listening. I never dreamed I would find myself in this situation. For those who would cast stones, I understand why; however, I assure you that I am harder on myself than any of you ever could be.
quankanne Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I have told him many times that I need a man that is devoted to me. based on what you've written, he isn't that man. As wonderful as he may sound, there are certain truths about him that he is never going to change, and I think he sensed a certain vulnerability in you that makes it easy for him to pursue you. … "I asked him if he were attached. He reacted with apparent surprise. "Of course I am - Didn't you know?" … I told him that I know about open relationships and that open means all the way open, meaning that nothing is kept secret. He said that our situation is different and that it could be "destructive". And that he wasn't ready or willing to tell. … He said that there were certain things he would have to "give up" in order for us to be together. at this point, I'd say that y'alls relationship is about 70-30, with you making the bigger commitment because he's got too much to lose by ending his marriage to be with you properly. Or his 70 percent is being able to get more out of it because it's a relationship on HIS terms (i.e., an affair) and you're left with very little. either way you look at it, surely you see that this is not in your best interest? That maybe you're looking for something from someone not completely willing to give it (a healthy loving relationship). actually, in re-reading your post, I think you do understand this, and need someone to confirm your thoughts. So I say, hold out until you find the relationship YOU want that can be enjoyed with NO entanglements or issues (um, like him being married?) – you deserve nothing less.
NewSunrise Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 When I returned home, I nearly broke it off with him... As I see that he is a man that is loyal, but faithless. And I have told him many times that I need a man that is devoted to me. He said that there were certain things he would have to "give up" in order for us to be together. You left an abusive relationship. But you entered one that is just as abusive mentally and emotionaly disguised in the form of "love". There is no love from where it came from. Like you said, he is married. No matter how "open" is his relationship, that's his version. For all you know, his wife may not know his promiscuity. Even if she does, you have to be willing to be part of his "open marriage" that there will or may already be other OWs besides you. Question is do you want to be a part of his harem? Reread what you wrote: ...I need a man that is devoted to me. You're very aritculate and come across intelligent. I think you already know the answer, don't you? On what you must do for yourself. Sometimes the solution is the hardest and most painful thing to do. But to come out of it, you have to go through it. Good luck.
Lucky_One Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 When a man tells you that he is an open marriage, he is telling you (at least) two things. 1) He has had many affairs and ONS. People don't have "open marriages" unless they are having sex with others. 2) He is not going to leave his marriage. Granted, I don't trust much of what a MM says to get a woman into bed anyway. He surely isn't going to tell you that he is deeply in love with his wife and will never leave his marriage but is addicted to the thrill and rush of a new sexual liason and has left a string of broken-hearted women in his wake. He surely isn't going to tell you that his marital sex life is exciting and frequent. He surely isn't going to tell you that he is also f*cking his secretary at work. There are always three sides to the story - his, hers, and the truth. You are only getting one of those sides. What does your therapist say about this affair in regards to your emotional instability and unhappiness?
Author penumbra Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 based on what you've written, he isn't that man. As wonderful as he may sound, there are certain truths about him that he is never going to change, and I think he sensed a certain vulnerability in you that makes it easy for him to pursue you. First of all, thank you Quankanne (and others!) for wading through my very long post. I appreciate your input. The thing is - He is wonderful and he treats me with respect. He is consistent and does everything he says he will. He also loves me dearly, as I love him... And has indicated that it was possible to change... He said he never said it couldn't change. Is this just a way of keeping me on the hook? I don't know. That's what the realist in me says. I talked to my T about it a week ago. People can and do change, with enough incentive. Otherwise, my T said he would not be doing what he is doing for a living. But my MM may ultimately choose not to change, and I must accept that. It doesn't mean he doesn't love me. It means he doesn't love me enough, or more accurately, does not choose to love me in the way I want and need to be loved. It means that he loves what he is doing and his (perceived?) needs, more. I would have to honor that choice, too, because isn't that a form of self-love, too? Honoring your own needs/desires? But that is not Love then, I think... Because Love is somewhat altruistic, isn't it. Not everyone is capable of that, I think. at this point, I'd say that y'alls relationship is about 70-30, with you making the bigger commitment because he's got too much to lose by ending his marriage to be with you properly. Or his 70 percent is being able to get more out of it because it's a relationship on HIS terms (i.e., an affair) and you're left with very little. In truth, I haven't committed to him in my heart or aloud - Not while he is not committed to me. I brought up the possibility of seeing other people. After all, he is a MM. I don't believe the relationship is on HIS terms, at the moment. The terms are agreed, for now, and equal. I do not presently want or demand anything from him before I absolutely know what I truly want. It seems wiser getting to know him slowly and waiting a bit, rather than asking for something right away that will have consequences and must be thought through carefully. I think such a decision would be premature. I suppose that is why I am still here. either way you look at it, surely you see that this is not in your best interest? That maybe you're looking for something from someone not completely willing to give it (a healthy loving relationship). That is what I continue telling myself. Things are going wonderfully, but there is always this nagging doubt; at the same time, I think to truly love someone, you have to love and accept all of who they are, as well. This, of course, is not the same as being with them unconditionally. We can love others unconditionally, but if they don't meet certain expectations or needs of ours, we might choose to not be with them. I need to make that choice. And I think I am a monogamous person who requires devotion from her mate. If I didn't love him more than anyone I've ever known, It wouldn't matter and I wouldn't mind having an "open relationship" with him. But this is not the case. So I say, hold out until you find the relationship YOU want that can be enjoyed with NO entanglements or issues (um, like him being married?) – you deserve nothing less. You know how it is... I've never met anyone like him and don't believe I ever will, again. I think we are in each other's lives for a reason - That reason has yet to be discovered. In love, I don't think there is such a thing as "deserve".
Author penumbra Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 You left an abusive relationship. But you entered one that is just as abusive mentally and emotionaly disguised in the form of "love". There is no love from where it came from. That is my fear. But that fear is not necessarily more true than the belief that he does love me, but that the circumstances are strange and not ideal. At the moment, I am seeing it from both sides... When I look at it from one side, I feel destructive; when I focus on the other side, I am blissfully happy. Like you said, he is married. No matter how "open" is his relationship, that's his version. For all you know, his wife may not know his promiscuity. Even if she does, you have to be willing to be part of his "open marriage" that there will or may already be other OWs besides you. Question is do you want to be a part of his harem? I suppose you could say I am cautiously giving him the benefit of the doubt. Waiting to see or for things to be revealed, so to speak. I am aware there may be other OW - I have seen that happen in the lives of friends, before. I am not naive. You are right about the real question - If he chooses to have a harem (which is an assumption, of course), would I want to be a part of it? You're very aritculate and come across intelligent. I think you already know the answer, don't you? On what you must do for yourself. Sometimes the solution is the hardest and most painful thing to do. But to come out of it, you have to go through it. Good luck. Thank you, NewSunrise. I don't really know the answer. I waver a lot. Strangely, the only "bad" that has happened between us has occurred in my own mind, due to my own nagging doubts, fear of what may come, and low self-esteem. All the supposedly negative things have only been in my own psyche. He hasn't done anything to promote these doubts, really.
Author penumbra Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 When a man tells you that he is an open marriage, he is telling you (at least) two things. 1) He has had many affairs and ONS. People don't have "open marriages" unless they are having sex with others. 2) He is not going to leave his marriage. Granted, I don't trust much of what a MM says to get a woman into bed anyway. He surely isn't going to tell you that he is deeply in love with his wife and will never leave his marriage but is addicted to the thrill and rush of a new sexual liason and has left a string of broken-hearted women in his wake. He surely isn't going to tell you that his marital sex life is exciting and frequent. He surely isn't going to tell you that he is also f*cking his secretary at work. There are always three sides to the story - his, hers, and the truth. You are only getting one of those sides. LuckyOne, Thank you for taking the time to wade through my tremendously long story. I appreciate what you have to say and often have similar thoughts/feelings about the situation; however, those thoughts and feelings are based on negative assumptions, aren't they? An open marriage does not necessarily equate promiscuity, as so many believe. And not all men are pigs with the only goal to get women into bed. This MM would not have had to try so hard to have me as a conquest, and we have only been physical a few days. I think it is better to ask and find out than to assume, in every case, unless it is revealed that an individual is completely lacking in morals and integrity, which I do not believe to be true of my MM. That is what makes it difficult. My own doubts/insecurities/negative assumptions battle with the rational part of me that says, "wait and see - then decide." What does your therapist say about this affair in regards to your emotional instability and unhappiness? We've talked about it. He is very good in the sense that he does not force his own value system on to me, but allows me to determine what my own value system is, for myself. This is crucial, considering that I grew up in a very controlling environment and have been attracted to controlling males, as a result, and have lost my own voice. He made a point of saying that there were many good things I was getting out of the present situation, and noted that I was not yet ready to let go. He thinks that I have made some rather valid observations, actually... So much of this lies in figuring out who I truly am, what I really want, and where I really stand... Something that was taken away from me at an early age and which I struggle with, continuously. This is a good lesson, I think.
NewSunrise Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 My own doubts/insecurities/negative assumptions battle with the rational part of me that says, "wait and see - then decide." This is crucial, considering that I grew up in a very controlling environment and have been attracted to controlling males, as a result, and have lost my own voice. So much of this lies in figuring out who I truly am, what I really want, and where I really stand... Something that was taken away from me at an early age and which I struggle with, continuously. Penumbra--- I think it'll take a while for you to figure out what you want. Here's why: 1. You use your past experience as an excuse to not grow because that's what you have become accustomed to. Your situation is no different as if a child who grew up abused and then either grow to become abuser themselves or engage in relationships that are abusive. The abuse as we have always seen so often is the destruction of the spirit and self esteem. So the cycle continues. You are allowing the cycle to continue. 2. You are justifying reasons/excuses to remain in this relationship knowing full well the outcome. There is "no wait and see". He's told you upfront what he is, what he wants and has no inteniontion of being faithful to anyone. He won't change for you. Yet, on the same breath, you claim your are "not naive". My point is, you have to DECIDE and take claim and control of your own happiness and destination. To put yourself in a "wait and see" mode as you put it for this MM in order to navigate your life around him is the most debilatiting thing you can do for yourself. Sure he makes you alive, but at what expense? Haven't you paid enough by the people in your past who abused you? My own doubts/insecurities/negative assumptions battle with the rational part of me that says, "wait and see - then decide." What else is there to decide? I know that I can not change him. And you won't. You've been more than willing to be the OW. That's no secret. What makes you think it would be to his advantage to change? What you wrote is most disturbing: It means that he loves what he is doing and his (perceived?) needs, more. I would have to honor that choice, too, because isn't that a form of self-love, too? Honoring your own needs/desires? This speaks volume of where you are. This IS NOT a form of self-love. This is a form of SICK LOVE. Love is two way. And the reason why you must question this is that you haven't begun to learn HOW TO LOVE YOURSELF. Until you learn how to love yourself, you will continue to allow people to take advantage of you, emotionally abuse and use you. To love yourself, you would know that you deserve better than this; that you won't settle for anything less. Think about it. If you haven't heard of the book entitled, "The Shack", I highly recommend it. It's spiritually englightening and will hit you with a lot of soul searching. It allows you to look deep into yourself in relation with people. Might even answer some of your questions. A page turner.
Author penumbra Posted March 14, 2009 Author Posted March 14, 2009 Penumbra--- I think it'll take a while for you to figure out what you want. Here's why: 1. You use your past experience as an excuse to not grow because that's what you have become accustomed to. Your situation is no different as if a child who grew up abused and then either grow to become abuser themselves or engage in relationships that are abusive. The abuse as we have always seen so often is the destruction of the spirit and self esteem. So the cycle continues. You are allowing the cycle to continue. 2. You are justifying reasons/excuses to remain in this relationship knowing full well the outcome. I agree with you in part; however, I would also have to say that I am striving to break the cycle. Why else would I stay in therapy without really feeling it is helping me (yet)? Why else would I be contemplating all of this carefully and trying to remain realistic and rational instead of allowing myself to be completely swept away by the "love" emotions and endorphins? Why else would I have finally kicked my abusive ex to the curb, changed my phone number, moved, and have gotten a restraining order? I could have stayed with him for several more weeks, months, years... But I didn't. You really don't know me and have no idea what I have been through and how much strength it has taken for me to be able to break free and how little support I have had in this situation. It may very well be that I have fallen into another, even more dangerous trap - I have considered that too. That has yet to be determined. That's part of why I'm here and also something I discuss with my T on a regular basis. If I were simply unwisely repeating patterns, I would have agreed to have taken the position to work with him without a second thought - a very tempting and exciting prospect. I don't think you realise just how powerful the tempation is. The job is incredibly lucrative, in an exotic location, and not only am I deeply in love with him and vice versa, he is also a very well-known man and it could be enormously flattering to have his attention. But he is really just a man - albeit a very special one. And I am holding my ground. It is quite easy to judge my situation from the sidelines, but there is a lot more to this story than what can be ascertained from a few posts in a public forum. You have no idea where I have been or how far I have come. I think it is a bit premature to determine the outcome. Not all outcomes are the same - I have known of several situations like this one and they have all had different outcomes. Some of them have led to heartbreak, others have led to a civil but cold relationship, still others have led to eventual long term marriage and children. And every situation is unique. There is "no wait and see". He's told you upfront what he is, what he wants and has no inteniontion of being faithful to anyone. He won't change for you. Yet, on the same breath, you claim your are "not naive". I think you have misunderstood me. The "wait and see" is waiting for him to reveal more about who he is and what he is capable or not capable of. In fact, he hasn't said that "he has no intention of being faithful to anyone". That's an assumption. Again, every situation is unique and not all of his relationships have been polyamorous. I don't know why this particular relationship is open and I intend to ask him. Of course he won't change for me. He would change for himself, if he wanted it badly enough. Will he ever? I don't know. Honestly, part of the conundrum lies in the fact that I would not want him to change because of me, if that is really who he is (polyamorous) and what he needs. Of course I would like him to be different, but he is who he is. Who am I to command that he be something different? It would be just as wrong for him to demand that I be something other than what I am, which is not what he asks of me. It is my choice. I suspect, however, that he is the way he is because of some of his own issues and that leads me to believe that by continuing to engage with him, I am not only hurting his wife, but hurting myself AND allowing him to hurt himself. That is another question I have posed to him: Is this a really loving choice for all parties? I may be a great many things, but naive is not one of them. I don't think anyone who knows me well would ever call me naive. In addition to having a personal history that renders it impossible for me to be naive, I've lived in a foreign and very corrupt/politically unstable country on my own for several years and have truly seen a piece of life... Many things I would rather not have seen. My point is, you have to DECIDE and take claim and control of your own happiness and destination. To put yourself in a "wait and see" mode as you put it for this MM in order to navigate your life around him is the most debilatiting thing you can do for yourself. Sure he makes you alive, but at what expense? Haven't you paid enough by the people in your past who abused you? My "wait and see" mode suits me, for now and I am not yet putting him first. I am not waiting around pining for him by the phone, really, as he is far away and I am free to do whatever I please. At the moment, I am focusing on myself and coming back to life, reconnecting with relationships that were stifled under the weight of an abusive, narcissistic controller for three years. I am not navigating my life around him... I have no reason to. He has given me no cause to do so, at this juncture. And I hope that's something I will never choose to do again: make sacrifices and compromises of self for a man who does not love me enough to do the same. I hope I have learned my lesson. I agree with you 100% about having to choose to control one's own happiness and destination. But this is much easier said than done. First comes awareness, I think. Then acceptance. Then action. Or inaction. And you won't. You've been more than willing to be the OW. That's no secret. What makes you think it would be to his advantage to change? I find this statement a bit presumptuous - to say that I won't. No outcomes are predetermined and I am not and never have been a willing OW. It's something I've resisted and fought the entire time and as I have stated, I am contemplating breaking it off. Not to force change, on his part, as that is unloving and manipulative - But because I find it painful and feel it is detrimental to my progress. I have been susceptible, yes, weak, yes, but "willing" - no. The other side of it is that he has also been an incredibly positive influence in my life and has been the catalyst for a great many good changes in my life. That is undeniable. It's not so simple or black & white. What you wrote is most disturbing: This speaks volume of where you are. This IS NOT a form of self-love. This is a form of SICK LOVE. Love is two way. And the reason why you must question this is that you haven't begun to learn HOW TO LOVE YOURSELF. Again, you have misunderstood me... And conveniently left out a crucial part of what I wrote: But that is not Love then, I think... Because Love is somewhat altruistic, isn't it. Not everyone is capable of that, I think. I can see why you read it that way, though... I write as if thinking out loud, sometimes. Until you learn how to love yourself, you will continue to allow people to take advantage of you, emotionally abuse and use you. To love yourself, you would know that you deserve better than this; that you won't settle for anything less. Think about it. Thank you. That is what I am striving to do. If you haven't heard of the book entitled, "The Shack", I highly recommend it. It's spiritually englightening and will hit you with a lot of soul searching. It allows you to look deep into yourself in relation with people. Might even answer some of your questions. A page turner. Actually, funny you should mention it - I have "The Shack" on my bookshelf and have actively been engaging in a lot of deep soul searching for the past five years or so. Again, never assume. I think anyone who knows me would tell you that I am an old soul and tend to look more deeply into myself in relation to other people than most. Hard to believe, I know, considering that I am in my present situation. I now believe it could happen to anyone. But our fear and self-righteous feelings won't allow us to believe that it could happen to ME. His M is open and his W agreed to the arrangement. But the "falling in love" part was not part of the agreement. And that is largely why i am uncomfortable with it. I don't set out to hurt others, I do see how we are all interconnected and realize how my actions ripple out to affect others. On another note: Strangely enough, your book suggestion was recommended to me by the person who molested me and is now in prison for molesting children, as well as another who emotionally/verbally abused me throughout childhood, and yet another who beat me in church. All of whom have contributed to my present-day predicament. How is that for ironic? Throwing Christianity at me, via "The Shack", is not helpful and dare I say: all Christians sin. It may be difficult for you to believe that i have actually done a lot of soul searching and have had profound spiritual experiences. I think about spirituality a lot. Which is why I am wondering about the spiritual implications and reasons for being in this situation, at the moment. What am I here to learn? I ask.
NewSunrise Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 I agree with you in part; however, I would also have to say that I am striving to break the cycle. Why else would I stay in therapy without really feeling it is helping me (yet)? Why else would I be contemplating all of this carefully and trying to remain realistic and rational instead of allowing myself to be completely swept away by the "love" emotions and endorphins? Why else would I have finally kicked my abusive ex to the curb, changed my phone number, moved, and have gotten a restraining order? I could have stayed with him for several more weeks, months, years... But I didn't. You really don't know me and have no idea what I have been through and how much strength it has taken for me to be able to break free and how little support I have had in this situation. It may very well be that I have fallen into another, even more dangerous trap - I have considered that too. That has yet to be determined. That's part of why I'm here and also something I discuss with my T on a regular basis. If I were simply unwisely repeating patterns, I would have agreed to have taken the position to work with him without a second thought - a very tempting and exciting prospect. I don't think you realise just how powerful the tempation is. The job is incredibly lucrative, in an exotic location, and not only am I deeply in love with him and vice versa, he is also a very well-known man and it could be enormously flattering to have his attention. But he is really just a man - albeit a very special one. And I am holding my ground. And this will be an ongoing test and a challenge. I think it is a bit premature to determine the outcome. Not all outcomes are the same - I have known of several situations like this one and they have all had different outcomes. Some of them have led to heartbreak, others have led to a civil but cold relationship, still others have led to eventual long term marriage and children. And every situation is unique. Which outcome will be yours? Reread your quote: I think you have misunderstood me. The "wait and see" is waiting for him to reveal more about who he is and what he is capable or not capable of. In fact, he hasn't said that "he has no intention of being faithful to anyone". That's an assumption. Again, every situation is unique and not all of his relationships have been polyamorous. I don't know why this particular relationship is open and I intend to ask him. Do you hear yourself double talking? What part of the word "open" do you need clarification on? In fact, what's the first thing that comes to you when someone tells you "I have an open relationship with my wife?" It is quite easy to judge my situation from the sidelines, but there is a lot more to this story than what can be ascertained from a few posts in a public forum. You have no idea where I have been or how far I have come. Without judging you, oh, I do know what you have gone through or going through. I have been in your situation. Molested by family member. But there comes a time when you have to do what you gotta do to get back on your feet. Dwelling over something that's happened will constantly knock you down emotionally and mentally. Our past causes us to often question our inablities, inadequacies and choices. To muddle through, the process depends from one individual to the next. For some it will require years of T while others don't. You are going through the process. How long it will take? Only you can decide. On another note: Strangely enough, your book suggestion was recommended to me by the person who molested me and is now in prison for molesting children, as well as another who emotionally/verbally abused me throughout childhood, and yet another who beat me in church. All of whom have contributed to my present-day predicament. How is that for ironic? Yeah, I'd say that is ironic. Actually I found it both spiritually enlightening and humorous. Throwing Christianity at me, via "The Shack", is not helpful and dare I say: all Christians sin. It may be difficult for you to believe that i have actually done a lot of soul searching and have had profound spiritual experiences. I think about spirituality a lot. Which is why I am wondering about the spiritual implications and reasons for being in this situation, at the moment. I didn't look at the book as "Christianity" nor am I a "Christian". The messages in the book parallels what we often do as humans. There's a strong message (quite a few actually) that rings true for all of us and that is we want indenpendence but virtue of getting it, we end up screwing ouselves and others in the process. There's another strong message in the book---things are not always what they seem. Mull on this for a moment and let me know what you think about it. We've got ONE shot at life. What we do with it is up to us. We can blame our past and people who've done us wrong, succumb to temptations that will give us the world and power, navigate through life and take what life throws at us OR we can appreciate what we've got now and make each day count no matter how tough it is because we may never get that chance tomorrow. But to make each day count, it will require us to "rewire" our thinking---a tough process.
jj33 Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 Penumbra. It sounds like you have had some really rough breaks with the people you have trusted in your life. And as you have probably discussed with your counselor that makes it less surprising that you would hang in this situation. Sometimes things do work out. But far less likely when someone has an open marriage. If someone really has an open marriage they more freedom than is normally available in a marriage (understatement). Lets be practical for a moment. Why would he break up his existing marriage (not a small decision) and leave a situation like that to be faithrul to one woman? Would you be happy really happy and content with an open relationship if he was with you? As New Sunrise said you need to rewire your thinking. You need to come to terms with why this would be acceptable. Because in your heart of hearts it is probably not.
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 This man will never be what you want for him to be for you. I suspect that subconsciously you know that. It is precisely why you are with him - to perpetuate that feeling of despair that is your 'norm'. People who are abused over a lifetime or have emotionally absent parents, and continue abusive relationships and emotionally absent or unavailable people generally do so for a reason: to perpetuate feelings of what for them is 'normal'. Women in particular in these situations tend to look for the 'abusive father' - the one that they love, and loves them even while abusing them and keeping them steeped in equal parts love and agony. Women want to win over 'daddy' and make him love her, approve of her. You see it all the time with young OW and much older cakemen MM. Generally speaking, a good deal had emotionally unavailable and/or philandering fathers. I suspect that if you were to have a man come to you who is closer to your age, 100% available, emotionally and physically, will be monogamous, will cater to your needs, and treat you with true love and respect that you would be lost and anxious. And bored. The men you end up wit, may not be the best for you - but it is what you know best, and people generally stick with what they know. They are more comfortable that way. Abuse has different faces. Some are angry faces that beat you. Others smile and shatter you from the inside. Both serve to feed the need for abuse that some women have (not consciously, of course - that is something that eventually comes out with therapy). As for his faithfulness, well - let's just say that as much as you would like to be the exception, you won't be. Men like him are not monogamous by nature, and even a choice to be monogamous will be reversed eventually. Men like that don't become monogamous until they literally cannot get another woman, and even then their minds continue on in a cheating fashion right on up until they die. You can't change him. He will never be what you want him to be. At best, he will simply continue to be what you 'need' him to be - emotionally unavailable, and keeping you in a perpetual state of ups and downs. Mostly downs. I hope you can pinpoint what it is inside yourself that keeps you choosing these dead end situations, and learn to open yourself to more positive opportunities. Breaking the cycle isn't easy.
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