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In search of an affair-but how?


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Posted

I have been posting on the divorce forum for a year now, off and on.

My H and I were separated for all of 2008. I filed in Aug and the D was supposed to be dinal last week. However, in that time, H could not support himself and I paid him a few hundred a month and gave him back any child support taken out of his check. Then, in Nov., he found out that the business he works for is going under and he will most likely be unemplyed by the end of this year. He is a very involved dad to our young teens and I couldn't let him be homeless. I just couldn't. So I told him to move back in- which he did, 11 weeks ago. The kids , I suppose , were happy about it in many ways, but they were fine with being apart too- no big issues, sinse H and I are so involved as co-parents. Anyway, I canceled the D (for now), and told him we could live as roommates. I am toying with the idea of refiling and living together Divorced so that I could morally date - but there would have to be too much secrecy to that whole situation, and I am not in the mood for it.

Hm....

anyway, H and I are "freinds", if you could call it that, we live as roommates- although everyone thinks we are "back together" and we don't share otherwise- at least to the families. A couple of close girlfriends of mine know the real situation.

We are refinancing the house and working hard to save money. I have no feelings for him whatsoever. After years of MC and IC, there is no reconciliation. We sleep in the same bed but are strictly platonic.

He is content with this arrangement. I am not. I am lonely and tired of being "alone." We do not have an agreement to not cheat, nor that we can see others. It has never been discussed. I am sure he would not want me to see others, not as long as we are married. He doesn't really want the D, as he has feelings for me and wishes things could change. That said, he understands that there is no changing for me.

So...point is: we are together in a marriage of convenience, for financial reasons only, until the economy and his job situation looks better.

I am toying with the idea of an affair- with someone married or single.

But I have no idea how to go about such a thing. I don't know of anyone in my social circle who I think would be in such a position.

Oh, I am nid-40's and decent looking.

I do not want to be judged, yelled at or told that I am a home-wrecker, immoral, slutty or anything. I am not posting to be reamed. Just want to hear thoughts.

Posted

I don't know where you find people! These things just kind of happen when you let them. I suppose you should start by noticing who you are attracted too and go from there.

 

On a side note, I bet there are alot of people in your position with the economy in the shape its in. Good Luck to you.

Posted
I have been posting on the divorce forum for a year now, off and on.

My H and I were separated for all of 2008. I filed in Aug and the D was supposed to be dinal last week. However, in that time, H could not support himself and I paid him a few hundred a month and gave him back any child support taken out of his check. Then, in Nov., he found out that the business he works for is going under and he will most likely be unemplyed by the end of this year. He is a very involved dad to our young teens and I couldn't let him be homeless. I just couldn't. So I told him to move back in- which he did, 11 weeks ago. The kids , I suppose , were happy about it in many ways, but they were fine with being apart too- no big issues, sinse H and I are so involved as co-parents. Anyway, I canceled the D (for now), and told him we could live as roommates. I am toying with the idea of refiling and living together Divorced so that I could morally date - but there would have to be too much secrecy to that whole situation, and I am not in the mood for it.

Hm....

anyway, H and I are "freinds", if you could call it that, we live as roommates- although everyone thinks we are "back together" and we don't share otherwise- at least to the families. A couple of close girlfriends of mine know the real situation.

We are refinancing the house and working hard to save money. I have no feelings for him whatsoever. After years of MC and IC, there is no reconciliation. We sleep in the same bed but are strictly platonic.

He is content with this arrangement. I am not. I am lonely and tired of being "alone." We do not have an agreement to not cheat, nor that we can see others. It has never been discussed. I am sure he would not want me to see others, not as long as we are married. He doesn't really want the D, as he has feelings for me and wishes things could change. That said, he understands that there is no changing for me.

So...point is: we are together in a marriage of convenience, for financial reasons only, until the economy and his job situation looks better.

I am toying with the idea of an affair- with someone married or single.

But I have no idea how to go about such a thing. I don't know of anyone in my social circle who I think would be in such a position.

Oh, I am nid-40's and decent looking.

I do not want to be judged, yelled at or told that I am a home-wrecker, immoral, slutty or anything. I am not posting to be reamed. Just want to hear thoughts.

 

Seriously? I think what you need to do first and foremost is discuss this with your husband. I don't see why you have to have an affair, rather than simply ending the marriage and moving on with your life. It makes no sense.

 

Think about this, please. You still sleep in the same bed with him - that is confusing to ALL parties. You, him, any potential partners and your children, too!!

 

It is nice of you to want to keep him from being homeless. But why can't you get divorced and let him stay in a spare room? You're just stringing him along, and the fact that you don't even want to TALK about it with him is a very, very bad sign.

 

Do the brave thing and get it all out on the table:

 

1. You do not want to reconcile. Your mind is made up that you want to be divorced, full stop. Tell him that.

2. You do want to date other people. Tell him that.

3. If you want him to stay, he can, but he must sleep elsewhere. You said you'd live as roommates, but nothing more. So, enforce that with action, not just words - otherwise, he'll believe what he wants to believe because he wants to reconcile. If you want to live only as roommates, you MUST tell him that and you MUST back it up with action.

 

Then, he can maybe make up his own mind about whether he wants to stay with you under these conditions. Communication would be a good place to start.

Posted

Ok, Sm, I won't yell.:) If your H truly understands your unwillingness to reconcile( which, from your post, seems to be in doubt) and you're in a platonic relationship, GET THE HELL OUT OF THE SAME BED!!! OK, I did shout just a little. Who would want to have a relationship with a woman, who still sleeps with another man? What KIND of man would you be getting? Do you want a few quickies or are you worth more than that? If all you want is a little slap-and-tickle, wear something slutty and go to a bar. If you want love and attention, STAY AWAY FROM MARRIED MEN, you will only be causing some OTHER woman the same problems that you are having. Go out, get a hobby, join clubs or groups, meet single men, they are everywhere. I can understand lonliness, only don't make more trouble for yourself or others. AND GET THAT DIVORCE!!;);)

  • Author
Posted
Seriously? I think what you need to do first and foremost is discuss this with your husband. I don't see why you have to have an affair, rather than simply ending the marriage and moving on with your life. It makes no sense.

 

Actually- it DOES make sense- its the only ting we can do right now to keep him from having to move back in with his mother in another state (at age 45!)-He wants and needs to stay in this area for the sake of the children. Believe me, we have thought this out logically.

 

Think about this, please. You still sleep in the same bed with him - that is confusing to ALL parties. You, him, any potential partners and your children, too!!

 

No, its not confusing to him nor me- we have an understanding. The kids, well, they don't know the difference because they don't know what does or does not go on behind closed doors. Neither of us mind staying on our own sides. I am usually already asleep when he comes to bed. We have been sleeping together platonically for years anyway.

 

It is nice of you to want to keep him from being homeless. But why can't you get divorced and let him stay in a spare room?

 

 

No can do. There is no spare room. Plus, cohabitating while not married is not an example we want to set for our kids. (I know, fooling around is not moral either)

 

 

 

You're just stringing him along, and the fact that you don't even want to TALK about it with him is a very, very bad sign.

 

I am not stringing him along. He knows exactly how I feel, he has accepted it. We have no need to talk about it anymore, remember , we went thru 2 years of MC- we have it all talked out. But, that said, I would not want him to know if I was seeing someone on the side, that would be rude and hurtful.

 

Do the brave thing and get it all out on the table:

 

1. You do not want to reconcile. Your mind is made up that you want to be divorced, full stop. Tell him that.

 

 

He knows this already. We just have to wait until he can secure the means to support himself.

 

2. You do want to date other people. Tell him that.

 

 

He knows this too- but not in a married situation. (at least not openly)

 

3. If you want him to stay, he can, but he must sleep elsewhere. You said you'd live as roommates, but nothing more. So, enforce that with action, not just words - otherwise, he'll believe what he wants to believe because he wants to reconcile. If you want to live only as roommates, you MUST tell him that and you MUST back it up with action.

 

I told him that- that was the condition of moving back in and canceling the D (for now). I don't want him to sleep elsewhere, I think it would be too hard on the kids. Remember, H and I were NEVER emotionally or physically expressive to one another (many years I tried but found out he has an emotional disability and is unable to) So, really- it doesn't matter if we sleep in the same bed or not.

 

Then, he can maybe make up his own mind about whether he wants to stay with you under these conditions. Communication would be a good place to start.

 

Yes, he does want to stay here under these conditions, because his only other choice would be to have to move away from the children. He depends on me to support him. And I like it that, even though he doesn't contribute near as much financially, he does all the "guy things" around the house and plus most of the housework. This is how he makes up for not being able to contribute financially so much.

 

he is like a brother to me. He is a nice guy. But I do not love him romantically at all, I feel absolutely nothing. This is all out on the table. He knows it and I am sure he feels stuck. But he also is willing to make that trade off so that he can be the great dad that he is, participating each day in the kids lives and being a co-parent with me- something we do very well together.

 

Hm....

I know its wierd.

But man oh man, after 2 years of celibacy, both physically and emotionally, I am sure longing for a man to pay some romantic attention to me- perhaps to compliment me, tell me I am beautiful, etc (I never had that with H, not in 19 years)........

so can you blame me for being in the mindset to find someone on the side?

I don't want to present myself as a cheap slut or anything (although even a one night stand is beginning to sound attractive)...I want a relationship with someone- both emotional and physical. It has been sinse college sinse I really had anything like that.

 

God, I really hate my situation in so many ways....but I am trapped for now, I really am. You have to believe me!

Posted

Bankruptcy is a solution to the financial trap. Friends and family don't need to know about it. Only your lawyer and creditors will know, unless someone you know has a hobby of researching court records and public documents.

 

What are the other traps?

 

IME, and I've felt trapped like this, all the traps are in our own heads. I can empathize with your desire for a close intimate relationship. Both men and women need and deserve that. It's up to you :)

  • Author
Posted
Bankruptcy is a solution to the financial trap. Friends and family don't need to know about it. Only your lawyer and creditors will know, unless someone you know has a hobby of researching court records and public documents.

 

 

But even bankruptsy won't pay his rent. And it will keep him from being able to financially move on in the future. I can't let that happen.

 

What are the other traps?

 

Well, the only thing thats trapping me I guess, is the economy- his financial situation and how it affects (or would affect if I had him move out again) his ability to see the kids.

 

IME, and I've felt trapped like this, all the traps are in our own heads. I can empathize with your desire for a close intimate relationship. Both men and women need and deserve that. It's up to you :)

 

Yes, I am biding my time. But in the meantime--- an affair is totally on my mind now. I am thinking I have to focus on a married guy- perhaps one in a similar situation. I can't imagine a single guy wanting to be involved with a mid-40's "still married" woman, even one in my situation.

Posted

Why would you not tell your friends, family, even your kids the honest truth of your situation?

 

The only reason he's living with you is because he's broke and you didn't want to see him homeless.

 

Given that...why can't he sleep on the couch instead of your bed?

 

What the two of you are doing right now sends out mixed signals to EVERYONE...friends, family, kids, etc...

 

And give this some thought...they see the two of you living as "roomates" right now, with no intimacy at all. And, they believe that all is well between you...you're teaching them that this is "normal" in marriage. Is that the message you want them to have?

 

Stop the mixed messages. Tell the kids that the two of you are divorcing, but are working through the financial side of it right now...so he's sleeping on the couch, since the the two of you are no longer intimate.

 

This has the added benefit of putting pressure on him to change the situation...to get out on his own, so that the two of you can proceed with the divorce.

 

No mixed messages, no "affair", and he's now working harder to get out so that he's not sleeping on the couch.

 

What's the downside to this?

Posted

Smartwoman,

 

The problem is you are NOT divorced. In today's economic climate it is NOT that unusual for a divorced couple to live together. From your initial post, it sounds as if you WANT to date and enjoy love. Fair enough. And that you have a moral boundary precluding you because you are married.

 

So get divorced and still allow him to live there...albeit in another room.

 

It shows extraordinary heart and courage - for allowing him back in and not cheating. Yes, I know...the M is only paper...but I also fully understand your stance. Mostly because its MY stance as well. No cheating regardless of circumstance. Bravo.

 

Talk to your H. File the D. Allow him time to get back on his feet, perhaps sign a lease of 12 months at a VERY cheap rate?

 

I know the reality of it sucks. I happen to be in a very similar situation myself. But there is one thing you will always have- you did the right thing. And that COUNTS.

 

It DOES mean something. So, from one faceless anonymous internet poster guy...I value YOUR choices. Good for YOU.

Posted
Yes, he does want to stay here under these conditions, because his only other choice would be to have to move away from the children. He depends on me to support him. And I like it that, even though he doesn't contribute near as much financially, he does all the "guy things" around the house and plus most of the housework. This is how he makes up for not being able to contribute financially so much.

 

he is like a brother to me. He is a nice guy. But I do not love him romantically at all, I feel absolutely nothing. This is all out on the table. He knows it and I am sure he feels stuck. But he also is willing to make that trade off so that he can be the great dad that he is, participating each day in the kids lives and being a co-parent with me- something we do very well together.

 

Hm....

I know its wierd.

But man oh man, after 2 years of celibacy, both physically and emotionally, I am sure longing for a man to pay some romantic attention to me- perhaps to compliment me, tell me I am beautiful, etc (I never had that with H, not in 19 years)........

so can you blame me for being in the mindset to find someone on the side?

I don't want to present myself as a cheap slut or anything (although even a one night stand is beginning to sound attractive)...I want a relationship with someone- both emotional and physical. It has been sinse college sinse I really had anything like that.

 

I don't blame you for wanting love and attention, not at all. But I don't agree that you are being straightforward with your husband about your state of mind. And I also don't see any real reasons why you can't just be divorced and live together. Do you really think you're setting a good example for your kids of what marriage should be, if you have an affair? Come on now, think more reasonably about this. Don't just look for justifications for what you want to do - think it through.

 

I get that you feel trapped, but this is not a black or white situation. You do not have to either pretend to be married or else kick his butt out to the street. I sense that you don't want to hurt him, so you're simply avoiding the tough discussion that really needs to happen. But that hurts him too, and it hurts you, and it hurts your kids. Stop pretending, to yourself, to him and to your family. It's not fair to anyone, it does not set a good example for your kids, and it's making you unhappy.

 

And yes, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it makes your husband pretty damn miserable, too.

 

If you can't talk to him about dating others, then you haven't really been honest with him. Bottom line. You let him move back in, but didn't make the line firm - so yes, I'd guess he's hoping against hope that that means something it doesn't. It is absolutely up to you to define those boundaries more precisely, and yes, you obviously still need to talk about it - otherwise, you wouldn't be considering sneaking around behind his back in an affair! Do you see how that just contradicts itself??

 

It seems so pointless, when you could just be honest with each other and you could seek a new relationship openly. You're not as trapped as you feel.

Posted
We sleep in the same bed but are strictly platonic. .

He doesn't really want the D, as he has feelings for me and wishes things could change. .

 

You mean platonic from your standpoint, right ? Because you say he has feelings for you. Do him a favor, print your OP and share with him. Who knows he might be fine with you having an affair.....actually a relationship with om. That way you dont have to lie or hide it. You think you can do that ?

Posted

How long are you going to live like this? As I've said before you really have to take a step back before you can move forward. Things are never as bad as you think they're going to be. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. (I've been there)

 

I know your in a lot of pain and feel like you're in an untenable situation but perhaps your energy should be spent trying to correct your situation. Don't you think an affair will just add more stress to your life?

Posted
I can't imagine a single guy wanting to be involved with a mid-40's "still married" woman, even one in my situation.

 

That depends on what you want. There are plenty of guys who don't mind no-frills casual relationships with married women. You know you wouldn't have a deeper relationship with any man until you moved on from your M and situation anyway.

 

In a D, you can negotiate any terms mutually acceptable to the parties, absent statutory child support. Get creative, as another poster suggested. :)

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Posted
Why would you not tell your friends, family, even your kids the honest truth of your situation?

 

Well, the truth of the matter is that we cannot live together if we are divorced. I have a business (would rather not say what) and living with a man I am not married to would adversely affect it. I wouldn't get any clients. And then I too would be homeless!

 

The only reason he's living with you is because he's broke and you didn't want to see him homeless.

 

Given that...why can't he sleep on the couch instead of your bed?

 

If we were divoced, we would. But why bother now?

 

What the two of you are doing right now sends out mixed signals to EVERYONE...friends, family, kids, etc...

 

yes, I know. Thats the point. We don't want anyone to know how we are living. Its embarrassing and wouldjust cause my family to worry. The kids are not an issue, they are clueless.

 

And give this some thought...they see the two of you living as "roomates" right now, with no intimacy at all. And, they believe that all is well between you...you're teaching them that this is "normal" in marriage. Is that the message you want them to have?

 

I know. This has always bothered me. They think this is how a normal marriage goes. I don't know of any way to correct that now. Someday I will have a "talk" with each of them, after we are divorced. I don't know if it willd o any good. BUt, at least we don't fight, are freindly and respectful to each other- and we always have been, so that hasn't changed.

 

Stop the mixed messages. Tell the kids that the two of you are divorcing, but are working through the financial side of it right now...so he's sleeping on the couch, since the the two of you are no longer intimate.

 

This has the added benefit of putting pressure on him to change the situation...to get out on his own, so that the two of you can proceed with the divorce.

 

Actually, he HAS tried, he continues to look for a better job each day. But we live in Michigan, the worst hit state in the US- literally, there are NO jobs right now. Its terrible. Not even minimum wage jobs (which wouldn't support him anyway)

Posted

Have you really thought this through?

 

If you want to date a single person, then that is one thing, but will they be up for being in the dark and your little secret. Maybe.

 

Having an affair with a married person is another story. While its the most likely scenario, its not a good way to go. You know the heartache you are going through in your marriage. Even if the man is open to a a fling why partcipate in wreaking that havoc on someone else's life.

 

Be yourself be open and you may just meet a single man with whom you click. You will be honest about your situation and see where it goes from there.

 

Just saw your other post. If living with someone to whom you are not married would put your professional reputation in jeopardy, what would an affair to do it.

 

You cant afford this. If finances are the reason you are continuing to be married then finances need to be the reason you dont get into an affair. You cant put your business at risk.

  • Author
Posted
You mean platonic from your standpoint, right ? Because you say he has feelings for you. Do him a favor, print your OP and share with him. Who knows he might be fine with you having an affair.....actually a relationship with om. That way you dont have to lie or hide it. You think you can do that ?

 

 

LOL_ no he wouldn't be fine with it! I wouldn't be fine with him knowing as well. POint is, as long as we are married, I feel that it is wrong to cheat- and so does he. But he is content in our present situation, I am not. I would never hurt him further by actually letting him KNOW I wanted to cheat- thats pretty rotten. I know, I know, its rotten to cheat. But he KNOWS that our marriage is convenience only. No, we are not into an "open" marriage! And yes, he has some feelings for me- but not much. He mostly just THINKS he does.

Posted
LOL_ no he wouldn't be fine with it! .

 

You know i was being a bit sarcastic there, right ?

 

I would never hurt him further by actually letting him KNOW I wanted to cheat- thats pretty rotten. I know, I know, its rotten to cheat..

 

So you agree it is NOT ok to cheat behind his back ?

 

Oh, another point about having an affair with a married person....Dont do it.

 

So, your best case scenario....(you have to pay me for this now!)

 

a) Tell your husband that you want to date other men (as you cannot divorce him right now until the economy picks up)

 

b) Find a single person and start dating

 

c) Your husband might actually agree (however painful it could be for him)

 

 

You are being honest with your husband and you wont feel guilty for wrecking someone else' marriage.

 

You are a smart woman right ? Does that make sense ? Not difficult is it ?

  • Author
Posted
Have you really thought this through?

 

LOL- well, yes and no. Thats why I am posting here. I have been wanting to have something on the side for YEARS now, ever sinse I checked out of my marriage- at least 5 years ago.

 

If you want to date a single person, then that is one thing, but will they be up for being in the dark and your little secret. Maybe.

 

Having an affair with a married person is another story. While its the most likely scenario, its not a good way to go. You know the heartache you are going through in your marriage. Even if the man is open to a a fling why partcipate in wreaking that havoc on someone else's life.

Yes, I certainly don't want to do that. Thats why it would be ideal to meet someone in my situation- just biding time but a divorce inevitiable. Guess I can't counting on having such luck though.

 

Be yourself be open and you may just meet a single man with whom you click. You will be honest about your situation and see where it goes from there.

Yes, thats true. I think you are right. Maybe there is a divorced man somewhere, in my age group, who would understand and be open to it. When I meet people, should I say intitially that I am "seperated"? and then if anything happens to go from there, only then reveal my situation? I guess that would be the best way...then if they want to bolt, they can! LOL

 

Just saw your other post. If living with someone to whom you are not married would put your professional reputation in jeopardy, what would an affair to do it.

 

Well, I would have to be VERY cafeful on that- secretive. One of my freinds has been seeing someone for about 2 years now (married!) and absolutely no one but me knows.

 

You cant afford this. If finances are the reason you are continuing to be married then finances need to be the reason you dont get into an affair. You cant put your business at risk.

Again, I wouldn't let that happen. SO much is at stake that I would be EXTREMELY careful. I am considering going onto a dating site to meet someone in another town.

  • Author
Posted
You know i was being a bit sarcastic there, right ?

 

 

 

So you agree it is NOT ok to cheat behind his back ?

 

Yes, I agree. However, that does not mean it would stop me from doing it if the opportunity presented itself.

 

Oh, another point about having an affair with a married person....Dont do it.

well, I am at the point where I will take what I can get.

 

So, your best case scenario....(you have to pay me for this now!)

 

a) Tell your husband that you want to date other men (as you cannot divorce him right now until the economy picks up)

 

can't do that. It would make him feel like he has to leave again and he has no where to go. I can't do that to him.

 

b) Find a single person and start dating

 

c) Your husband might actually agree (however painful it could be for him)

 

 

You are being honest with your husband and you wont feel guilty for wrecking someone else' marriage.

 

Again, I don't want to wreck someone elses marriage- I would assume that a man who pursues an affair is in a marriage that has already ended- like mine (excpet perhaps on paper)

 

You are a smart woman right ? Does that make sense ? Not difficult is it ?

 

well, actually its not as simple as all this. Not by a long shot. I cannot simplify this, no matter howmuch I try- too many factors.

Posted

My main concern is that you will do something dumb and fall for a married man and end up destroying TWO marriages instead of just one. Then you WOULD be a cheap slut, and I don't think you are. You are in a bad situation. Everyone needs and deserves emotional and physical outlets, but there is an honest way and a dishonest way. To have an affair with a married man, will only cause hurt to someone you don't even know, and make your problems much, much, worse . so please find a single man, explain the Whole problem to him, and see where it goes. Make ABSOLUTELY sure that you communicate ALL this to your H, then you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you have been honest and straightforward with him. But you have GOT to do something about the bed situation. If I were a single man and we became close, I could understand the financial problem and the desire to protect the children, but I think I would have a problem with you two still sleeping in the same bed. I COULD fix you up with my brother-in-law, but you have enough problems.

Posted

Is it possible to retract a post?

 

Really, I misread you entirely. I thought you were struggling on how to handle your loneliness. That you wouldn't cheat because of this little thing called morality. Guess I was wrong.

 

Turns out your title to the post was spot on - you are looking for a way to justify cheating. You don't need one...just do it. But be warned, it will take its toll on you.

 

You will NOT D your H because of your compassion for him. But you will cheat on him which is the world's worst form of abuse.

 

You won't D and live with your xH for your job. But you'll have an A.

 

**shakes head**

Posted

Um, if your kids are teens they are most certainly NOT clueless. You are affecting the way they will be in relationships now and years to come. I understand you didn't want your H out on the streets but to retract the divorce, sleep in the same bed and have family think you are together is just sending nothing but mixed signals to your kids and everyone else, including H. If H wants to be there and is content in this platonic marriage, what is going to make him get a job and get the heck out? Nothing. You are going to enable him and end up resenting him. No one is going to move forward, including your kids.

 

That all said, I don't care if you choose to have an affair but why try with a married man? Just because your marriage is in the ****ter doesn't mean you have to make another marriage crap as well.

Posted

Go online through Adult Friend Finder. There's also something online called Ashley Madison, which facilitates affair hook-ups with other marrieds.

 

Good luck, have fun, but be careful out there.

Posted

SM, You have mentioned married men three or four times in your posts. You seem obsessed. Do You WANT to be dishonest? Do you want to destroy someone's marriage,because your own is so bad? You pay lip service, saying you hate cheaters, you 're not a cheap slut, etc, then tell about your"friend's" 2 yr affair, and how "secret" it is, as if that is something to be proud of. If you continue to think this way, you are well on your way to being as cheap, and disgusting as she is.

Posted

Have you seen a lawyer to see what your financial options are?

 

As mentioned you could always just have your ex live as a true roommate.

 

But what you are doing is sending mixed signals and is cruel.

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