scarred Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Its been about 6 weeks since I posted on here and the previous thread I posted on has been closed. Thought I would give an update - if nothing else than to be therapeutic for myself. We've been through about 6 weeks of counseling since I last posted and found out about my wife's affair of 14 years ago (I found out in late Jan 09). A few more details have come out through the counseling but nothing significantly different than what was originally discovered. I've also talked to the OM extensively. He has been through counseling with his wife a long time ago so he was pretty frank about what happened. The bottom line is no sex or petting occurred. It was the next step but fortunately they came to their senses and decided they had made a serious mistake in letting this go on for so long - read Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and his description of a Class IV affair - looks exactly like what occurred in this case based on our sessions with the counselor. There have been no additional physical affairs since but both of us have clearly had some level of emotional affair (s) over the years. We've had a pretty disconnected marriage - I always knew it but working through it with a counselor is making it much clearer. We've been through a lot with our children as well as we had a very troubled teen and a son (the one she was pregnant with when this was going on) who is autistic - they helped draw us closer in some cases but created real tension in other ways - we're now figuring thatout. Right now I feel better about our marriage than anytime since we got married. We're so much closer and doing all the little things to focus on each other. We'll continue to work with the counselor to take the steps we need to make sure we continue to have open and honest communication in the future - obviously something which was missing in the past. I still fret and am hurt about the physical affair from so long ago although I expect it to lessen with time (it already has dramatically). The psyche of individuals in secret affairs gripes me too - the last night of the affair, my wife would have been only 5 weeks from having our baby - if they would have had sex, there would have been a chance she would have gotten pregnant as she had been drinking and the last thing she would have been worried about is condoms in that state of drunkenness and arousal. Alas, I can't go back and change the past so I'll slowly let it die. I can call her a liar for all these years, but I've got my own stories which I've had to tell her - while not as "egregious" as hers, clearly betrayals of our vows. - So, good luck to everyone else. We're going to be OK. I love my wife very much and she loves me and we're looking forward to re-building our marriage one day at a time. I'll linger around the boards from time to time to help others to the extent that I can.
Athena Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Do you think you have been able to move ahead with your marriage BECAUSE YOU TOO had some kind of 'straying' in your marriage? In other words, if you had been completely loyal to your W, do you think you would have felt worse than you do, and potentially not been able to forgive her? Did it help her case, that you have experienced some wrong-doing yourself, and therefore can forgive her and try again? Perhaps it's easier on the BS if they experience some form of wrong-doing themselves, so as not to play/act on/ feel subjected to being the Victim
bentnotbroken Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Do you think you have been able to move ahead with your marriage BECAUSE YOU TOO had some kind of 'straying' in your marriage? In other words, if you had been completely loyal to your W, do you think you would have felt worse than you do, and potentially not been able to forgive her? Did it help her case, that you have experienced some wrong-doing yourself, and therefore can forgive her and try again? Perhaps it's easier on the BS if they experience some form of wrong-doing themselves, so as not to play/act on/ feel subjected to being the Victim There is no perfect BS, we all do things wrong. But the difference is the intent. Did we intentially lie, cheat, deceive and abuse our spouses with the potential for disease or/and death?
Lucky_One Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 "The psyche of individuals in secret affairs gripes me too - the last night of the affair, my wife would have been only 5 weeks from having our baby - if they would have had sex, there would have been a chance she would have gotten pregnant as she had been drinking and the last thing she would have been worried about is condoms in that state of drunkenness and arousal." Not a chance in hell that she could have gotten pregnant, since she was already pregnant. And why in the HELL was she drunk while she was pregnant? Good luck with your MC and your working it out. PS. Being a woman who has gone through a pregnancy, I can tell you that 8 months preggers is NOT when I would have contemplated sex for the first time with a man that I was in love with; it would have happened a long time prior. That makes me wonder if MM and your wife had a plan in place of Deny Deny Deny, no matter what.
Author scarred Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 It wasn't when my wife was 8 months pregnant, it was 5 weeks after giving birth. She admits she was infatuated with the guy and had been for about 9 months over the course of 4 conferences - most of which she was pregnant - and from previous threads I do know its my son. As far as the deny, deny, deny, thats always possible, but I've been with my wife for 14 years since. I'm sure she is telling me the truth at this point. I also know now realize there were multiple times over the course of that 14 years she tried to tell me but I didn't pick up on what she was trying to say and just dismissed it - I won't go into our conversations during those times, you'll just have to understand that I now understand what she was trying to tell me. As for the question of whether some of my own infidelities makes it easier to accept her "sin", I'm sure it does. I realize none of us are perfect and that put into certain situations where we are weakest, a great percentage of us will fail. So, I'm taking it for what it was - many factors created the environment in which my wife cheated (including her own character/integrity flaws at the time). In this case, a state wide organizational conference setting away at hotels helped to create the fantasy world which allowed this to start and last - our counselor has indicated to me that he is very familiar with the organization and that I would be amazed at the number of couples he has seen over the years where one spouse worked at that organization. A different set of circumstances might create the environment where I would be prone to cheat if my wife and I were nurturing our marriage. We've discussed how to protect our marriage and the open/honest communication about our feelings for each other and what might create attraction/attachment to others. We plan to continue working with the counselor to build a stronger marriage. Not the way I wish it would have come about, but we're still together and looking forward to a better future.
Author scarred Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 One other thing. If I had been pristine in our marriage, I think I could have still gotten through this because I can look at the 14 years of marriage since in which she has proven to be a great wife and mother. So, my situation is a little different in that I found out about it so much later after it happened. If I would have found out right after it happened it would have been much more difficult - particularly since she was pregnant most of the time - the idea of my pregnant wife lying on a bed kissing another guy disgusts me. And, if it were 14 years ago, I would probably go deck the other guy even though he lives several hundred miles away. But its not then, its now. And time, proven commitment since that time, and my own "infidelities" do make it easier.
willing Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 There is no perfect BS, we all do things wrong. good then, because I was tired of being the very best wife I could be for over twenty years while my husband ran around on me! I threw in being the perfect BS, and became someone who cheated too. Strange, heh? I was tired of the crap coming from him about how I was miss perfect and I would never be able to understand him, because he has problems. So, I now have a problem too, does that mean I can understand him better? I would love to see his reaction to that one. But the difference is the intent. Did we intentially lie, cheat, deceive and abuse our spouses with the potential for disease or/and death? He did so many times. I had never done so once. But yes, now I have. Call it revenge if you will, or an experiment, or trying to get some power back in our M, whatever, or all of the above. I think my point is that in the end it is all about choice, and not H's crappy excuse of he cant help himself.
jnj express Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I am glad you 2 are doing well, but do not tell us how your W., has been so wonderful for the last 14 years. For the last 14 years she has been coming home to you every day and night, looked you in the face, looked you in the eyes, and said everything was fine, everything was normal. FOR THE LAST 14 YEARS SHE HAS BEEN LYING TO YOU, and DECIEVING YOU. How is it she was trying to tell you all those times that she cheated and you didn't pick up on it. If you are telling someone something you say the words to get your point across like "Oh by the way i had an affair with another man, all during my pregnancy and afterwards."
Author scarred Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 Of course you are right. I'm not making excuses for my wife. She made decisions which were wrong. But, I find it interesting when people make these comments about "absolutes" when you don't know me or my wife, the history or our marriage, the issues we've been through, etc. I've used this board to ask rhetorical questions, to vent, to process my thoughts, etc., not to ask for machine gun type comments that focus on one piece of the story. After making stupid decisions, do we all always tell the truth even though we know it will hurt the other person? I can't truthfully say that I have, so I guess I can't expect my wife to be a better person than me. If you are that type of person, then I congratulate you for having standards you have never deviated from. I can say, you lied to me for 14 years and none of the rest of our marriage makes one bit of difference - you're a liar so get out. Of course, then I will have to look at myself in the mirror and know I've not always been completely emotionally faithful to her. I can't go back and change what happened or the fact that she didn't tell me. But I can see that for the past 14 years since and a total of 17 years, we've had a pretty decent marriage. She has been there for me when I needed her and vice versa - in tough times where we have had to lean on each other. This recent cleansing of our souls has brought us closer - I am (we are) choosing, with the periodic assistance of a marriage counselor, to look forward in terms of how we can make our marriage better, not continue to dwell on the past I can't change. I know others on this board don't have that option, and I'm truly sorry for that. I really do feel for you and wish I could change your situation.
Owl Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 OK...so she's cheated on you, and you've cheated on her. So you have two choices as far as I can see it. 1. End the marriage and walk away. 2. Rebuild a NEW marriage, on completely new and improved foundations. Clearly the foundations of the old one weren't sufficient. If you intend to start a new relationship with her...then I'd suggest that the two of you get some counseling. Look at what worked in your "old" relationship, and what didn't. Start doing some research (both via reading, and via an MC) on fixing those things that clearly didn't work. Work on figuring out what led BOTH of you to cheat...and fix those things. Make it a NEW relationship... Or walk away. Either choice is yours to make.
2sure Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 The psyche of individuals in secret affairs gripes me too - the last night of the affair, my wife would have been only 5 weeks from having our baby - if they would have had sex, there would have been a chance she would have gotten pregnant as she had been drinking and the last thing she would have been worried about is condoms in that state of drunkenness and arousal. Ive been follwing your posts and I have to say, even though I am a BS, the above quote from your post has been bothering me. You both cheated on each other emotionally in the past. No petting, no physical affair. You seem to be working together to overcome both of your infidelities. But you are having trouble forgiving, in part, because of the above. - But it didnt happen. They didnt have sex, they didnt need a condom, the baby is yours. I know the what ifs race through your mind - but they are fantasy when you now know the facts. Both of you have certainly entertained the what ifs - you both cheated - but you cannot bring them into the recovery process - because they are not real. I hope they dont get in your way.
Author scarred Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 2sure - thanks for the kick in the pants. I know reality and most of the time I deal with it well. Occasionally though I really do struggle with my wife being physically intimate (kissing on a bed a couple of different times) and the infatuation she had with this other guy. It sometimes feels hard to believe that your spouse was with someone else - almost surreal. But your advise is wise. My wife has expressed great remorse as have I about our pasts. We're going to continue going through counseling. We have already made our choice to build a new marriage so that is the direction we are headed. But, I am human, and sometimes the what ifs or the "why me's" do creep into my mind.
2sure Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Scarred - if it is any consolation, I can tell you this: Sooner more than later - you will exhaust your imagination and become bored with the what ifs. You are a grown up, a mature and right thinking person . When that point comes, it will be a relief and will allow you more focus.
Author scarred Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 2sure - thanks for the encouragement. I'm getting closer to that day I can tell. Owl - thank you as well. We are working with a marriage counselor and are both very happy with the direction our marriage is going - much more connected to each other with open and honest communication - no excuses.
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