Ending my M

[jwi71]

It was a hard and bitter fight one I ultimately "lost".

 

And she did "everything" right. She canceled her cell, coughed up all email passwords, was transparent about her activities. She had, IMO, NC with her OM. Sounds good.

 

Except...she never did any REAL heavy lifting. She NEVER faced herself. She didn't CHANGE. She had regret but never remorse. The difference being who is the recipient of the sadness, grief et al - regret is aimed at oneself whereas remorse is aimed at others. She simply can't feel it - whether for me or in general I find immaterial - the point is it isn't there for ME. She quit MC about two months ago...she said for work. I think she quit on change.

 

I accept my role. I was gone at work. I was busy being "successful". I neglected and ignored her. I came home and took out my stress and anger on her. Emotional abuse? I don't think so. Verbal abuse...yeah, like I said...I took my stress and angst and anger out on her. I was a difficult man to live with. I think all BS must understand how they contribute to the A.

 

Because if you don't understand you can NOT change. Something I have embraced wholeheartedly. Too late for her though. And I am sorry. I wish I had been a better man for her. But I wasn't broken enough to see it then.

 

And its ultimately what doomed us. She didn't/cannot change as she sees no problems with HER. For the WS, YOU must CHANGE as well.

 

The clincher to filing now...I just took a 90K pay cut. It was better than unemployment. My boss, the owner, told me it was directly related to my performance - I didn't bill enough hours. Because for several months I was a zombie and incapable of quality work. Affairs are mind numbing to the BS. And my W's repsonse?

 

"Its your fault. You should handle it better and get over it".

 

To me, she still hand no empathy nor understanding. No concept of how she affected me. I understand that she wants to forget and move on - her need. My need? Face it and overcome. Running away is NOT an option.

 

But it iwas hers.

 

And ultimately...one I REFUSE to live with.

 

I will continue down the path of a new me. Let go of my obsession with material things, success and outward appearrance. To find a balance (and in so doing, become a better man).

 

It takes TWO to survive.

[Geishawhelk]

A 90K paycut - ?? 90K - Really??

man, the marriage I could deal with, but the money??

 

No.

I'm kidding.

 

I'm sorry it has come to this for you......

 

Stay close.

You're invaluable, and everything you advise and point out above, is 100% true.

 

 

(90K?? That's a lot.....)

[bentnotbroken]

It was a hard and bitter fight one I ultimately "lost".

 

And she did "everything" right. She canceled her cell, coughed up all email passwords, was transparent about her activities. She had, IMO, NC with her OM. Sounds good.

 

Except...she never did any REAL heavy lifting. She NEVER faced herself. She didn't CHANGE. She had regret but never remorse. The difference being who is the recipient of the sadness, grief et al - regret is aimed at oneself whereas remorse is aimed at others. She simply can't feel it - whether for me or in general I find immaterial - the point is it isn't there for ME. She quit MC about two months ago...she said for work. I think she quit on change.

 

I accept my role. I was gone at work. I was busy being "successful". I neglected and ignored her. I came home and took out my stress and anger on her. Emotional abuse? I don't think so. Verbal abuse...yeah, like I said...I took my stress and angst and anger out on her. I was a difficult man to live with. I think all BS must understand how they contribute to the A.

 

Because if you don't understand you can NOT change. Something I have embraced wholeheartedly. Too late for her though. And I am sorry. I wish I had been a better man for her. But I wasn't broken enough to see it then.

 

And its ultimately what doomed us. She didn't/cannot change as she sees no problems with HER. For the WS, YOU must CHANGE as well.

 

The clincher to filing now...I just took a 90K pay cut. It was better than unemployment. My boss, the owner, told me it was directly related to my performance - I didn't bill enough hours. Because for several months I was a zombie and incapable of quality work. Affairs are mind numbing to the BS. And my W's repsonse?

 

"Its your fault. You should handle it better and get over it".

 

To me, she still hand no empathy nor understanding. No concept of how she affected me. I understand that she wants to forget and move on - her need. My need? Face it and overcome. Running away is NOT an option.

 

But it iwas hers.

 

And ultimately...one I REFUSE to live with.

 

I will continue down the path of a new me. Let go of my obsession with material things, success and outward appearrance. To find a balance (and in so doing, become a better man).

 

It takes TWO to survive.

 

 

 

I agreee that BS contribute 50% if not more to marital problems. I accept my emotional and verbal abuse. No matter what the reason, it doesn't change the pain my actions caused. But for me I will never accept that I had any part in his A. He made that choice. He chose the easy way out. Walk out, get help, or give ultimatums. All are better than f-ing somebody else's wife. I am partially responsible for major issues in our relationship. But not for his penis going for a walk in somebody else's yard.

 

I do understand what you mean by regrets and remorse. I always thought Mr. Messy regretted getting caught, but wasn't remorseful for the damage he helped cause so many. He just couldn't get it. I think part of it is his NPD, but part is that he didn't care enough. Trust and lack of remorse were more than enough for me. God bless you in your new life.

[65tr6]

jw. I dont know what to say. I did not even know you (except through LS) but I feel so much for you.

[whichwayisup]

"Its your fault. You should handle it better and get over it".

 

She's certainly supportive. (add sarcasm)

 

She quit MC about two months ago

 

She quit because she realized that counselling and change IS hard work, and she's afraid of digging down deep, admitting and facing her demons, and issues. What one puts into therapy is what one gets out of it..It's obvious she had no intention of doing the leg work to make herself a better person, or really give the marriage her absolute best. She's self absorbed and hasn't put you first.

 

Sorry that you're hurting..

[2sure]

This is terrible. JWI - I have read and taken heart and good advice from so many of your posts. I have real sadness over what has happened to you right now.

 

The paycut you describe is crushing news, at nearly any level of income.

Its hard to believe a cut like that would be justified more by poor performance than by the economy.

 

A job cut like that is a trauma and a tragedy - as many families are facing.

You feel her infidelity is the reason for your loss of income.

Certainly, the depression that ensues can be severe enough for that.

If your wife feels no sincere remorse, the process of recovery cannot start. It takes two like you said.

 

But, I dont know, saying this as gently as I can...moving forward is your responsibility as well. All fingers cannot point at her all of the time. Still, if you are not dealing with it together, you are not dealing with it at all.

[lostsoulmate]

It was a hard and bitter fight one I ultimately "lost".

 

And she did "everything" right. She canceled her cell, coughed up all email passwords, was transparent about her activities. She had, IMO, NC with her OM. Sounds good.

 

Except...she never did any REAL heavy lifting. She NEVER faced herself. She didn't CHANGE. She had regret but never remorse.

 

How long did you treat her like that before the A?

 

Maybe she waited all those years for you to change and you didn't until the A, which is at the point of no return?

 

There are always two sides to every story.

 

I accept my role. I was gone at work. I was busy being "successful". I neglected and ignored her. I came home and took out my stress and anger on her. Emotional abuse? I don't think so. Verbal abuse...yeah, like I said...I took my stress and angst and anger out on her. I was a difficult man to live with. I think all BS must understand how they contribute to the A.

 

Too late for her though. And I am sorry. I wish I had been a better man for her. But I wasn't broken enough to see it then. And its ultimately what doomed us. She didn't/cannot change as she sees no problems with HER. For the WS, YOU must CHANGE as well.

 

Maybe she was tired of waiting for you to "see" it. Over the years she made changes, sacrifices-you didn't see it then, why should she bow down now.

 

I will continue down the path of a new me. Let go of my obsession with material things, success and outward appearrance. To find a balance (and in so doing, become a better man).

 

It takes TWO to survive.

 

We are animals surviving is our most basic instinct. It only takes you to become a better man, it takes two to make (survive) a marriage happy. Sounds like she tired for years, then gave up just as you finally decided you should "try" too.

 

I am a cheater, that is why I play the devils advocate.

[HappyAtLast]

I also am sorry. I have been in your shoes many years ago, similar professional situation also. While you have a very healthy attitude, it seems, about the BS's culpability in the marriage... please remember that you have no culpability in the decision to cheat.

 

When I was in your situation, I decided to stay (my XW seems to have had much of the same attitude as yours did). But that was in a different time and a different world, and my children were small.

 

Please know that there IS light at the end of tunnel (and it is NOT always a train). You will meet someone that will make you happy and that you will make happy. Use this as a learning experience, use your own mistakes to learn from for your future relationship, that way, this is all not in vain.

 

Time heals all. In the meantime, I am sorry that you are going through this.

[jwi71]

This is terrible. JWI - I have read and taken heart and good advice from so many of your posts. I have real sadness over what has happened to you right now.

 

The paycut you describe is crushing news, at nearly any level of income.

Its hard to believe a cut like that would be justified more by poor performance than by the economy.

 

A job cut like that is a trauma and a tragedy - as many families are facing.

You feel her infidelity is the reason for your loss of income.

Certainly, the depression that ensues can be severe enough for that.

If your wife feels no sincere remorse, the process of recovery cannot start. It takes two like you said.

 

But, I dont know, saying this as gently as I can...moving forward is your responsibility as well. All fingers cannot point at her all of the time. Still, if you are not dealing with it together, you are not dealing with it at all.

 

Don't worry about being gentle. Part of wanting change is accepting my own faults and failings. If I don't know WHAT to change how CAN I change?

 

You are of course correct. She is not 100% to blame. I too have role and responsibility. I am moving forward. Slowly. Sometimes even a step back or two - but the overall trend is moving forward. And its easy to maintain momentum - I WANT to CHANGE.

 

I MUST change. Else I will simple make the SAME mistakes again.

 

The A did play a role in my salary hit. I know this because the owner told me so. So the question is one of degrees. I WILL ask...but not now. I think Ill keep my head down for now at the office...

[carhill]

Are you continuing counseling for yourself? How about FC (kid(s))? I would presume, with your household income, you're in a social strata where there will be social repercussions to all this. That will take some adjustment.

 

I've seen a lot of your postings and valued your perspective. Interesting that you've started two threads, first your original D-day, then this. You're a helper. That's a valuable quality. It will hold you in good stead

[Reggie]

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. I can't agree that the BS , neccessarily, always contributes 50% or MORE to the pre-A problems. It is an unanalytical cliche to assume that the climate was contributed to equally.

Both parties may have played a role in the marital issues. But, the decision to handle it by cheating, with other options readily available is wrong.

It seems particularly telling regarding her unwillingness to do the work and change, that she may have been a large contributor in the pre-A issues, as well.

[troubadour]

Jwi71,

 

I am sorry to hear that things in your marriage look the way they do.

 

I can ASSURE you of one thing... your wife would have had her affair even if you had been a better husband. I am not trying to make you feel better... this is just how things are.

 

A few years ago I was dating a very successful psychologist... one of this $250.00 per hour. Her take on affairs was that people have them because the opportunity to have one presents itself. Some of them will not cross this line no matter how bad or good their marriages are... while others just want to have their cake. Of course, they always try to attach some "philosophy" to why they have cheated. According to her the procentage of affairs in good marriages is about the same as in bad ones.

 

Frankly, I since reading your first post a few months back I was getting the feeling that it would end in divorce court sooner or later. Affairs and infidelity are very hard to get over. Your wife is a cake eater... expecting any genuine remorse on her part was childlish.

 

Again, I am sorry...

[jwi71]

How long did you treat her like that before the A?

 

Years. Probably from day one. It was "who I was". Like I said, I wasn't broken enough to see it and change.

 

 

Maybe she waited all those years for you to change and you didn't until the A, which is at the point of no return?

 

I'd agree with that 100%. But the problem is...she WAITED and DID NOTHING. Forget actions...she didn't even TALK about unhappiness. I had NO clue. Instead of waiting and cheating...she SHOULD have been talking and ACTING.

 

Yes, I was horribly disconnected. I was so focused on everything else - I forget her. Not forgot, took for granted. My *****. I wish I could say otherwise. I wish I had behaved differently. I wish I treated her better.

But I didn't. And I can't change that. I can't change the past.

 

I can only change the here and now. I can only change me.

 

Unhappy people need to speak up. Seek change. Act towards change. Not hide, lie and cheat.

 

There are always two sides to every story.

 

Of course. The problem is she NEVER communicated HER side to me.

 

 

Maybe she was tired of waiting for you to "see" it. Over the years she made changes, sacrifices-you didn't see it then, why should she bow down now.

 

Well duh. Of course she got tired of waiting - she cheated.

 

If she was unhappy (and she obviously was), then say something. Don't wait. Don't hope. ACT. Make a POSITIVE change. Move towards closing the rifts and not making them larger.

It only takes you to become a better man, it takes two to make (survive) a marriage happy.

 

Couldn't agree more. It does take TWO. And my M is one person working and changing and the other NOT. In that case, D is a probable outcome.

Sounds like she tired for years, then gave up just as you finally decided you should "try" too.

 

You're going to have to quote me on what in my post, or any post, gave YOU that idea. I must have missed it.

 

I am a cheater, that is why I play the devils advocate.

 

Ah. I get it.

The ONLY problem is...just as the BS must own their *****, so must the cheaters. Instead of blaming the BS as to why you had to cheat, own up to your failings. Your choices. And work on changing you.

 

I would like to point out that the A did NOT end our M.

Her lack of CHANGE did.

[jwi71]

Are you continuing counseling for yourself?

 

Yes. And I have NO intention of quitting.

 

How about FC (kid(s))? I would presume, with your household income, you're in a social strata where there will be social repercussions to all this. That will take some adjustment.

 

Kids are too young. Social effects? Some, but I don't care. And that IS positive change for me. And its an honest and not defensive "I don't care".

 

I've seen a lot of your postings and valued your perspective. Interesting that you've started two threads, first your original D-day, then this. You're a helper. That's a valuable quality. It will hold you in good stead

 

Thank you

[Mr. Lucky]

Wow! Except for the time frame (mine was 25 years ago), I could have written your post. My own culpability, focused on career instead of marriage, her inability to address our impasse, her affair, etc. Also eeriely similar was my feeling that her regret was more over getting caught than the actual cheating.

 

I wish you well. I have been happily remarried for 20+ years, hope the same fate awaits you!

 

Mr. Lucky

[pkn06002]

You may of expected something she was never going to give (remorse). Not all WS's feel remorse. Sounds like that was your deal breaker.

 

But it does sound like you have a clear idea of how you want to move forward. Good luck to you.

[jasminetea]

Gosh!

 

Sounds like you're very secure in your decision and have a strong plan for the future. All the best

[Chrome Barracuda]

Good for you JW I wish you the best in your futre dating relationships.

 

Some cheaters can just coast through life without doing the hard work. I'm sorry she's not putting in the effort. I think you'll do better off on your own. It sounds like mentally your strong to survive you dont need her to bring you down.

[jj33]

Im sorry to hear things didnt work out differently for you. You sound like you gave it your all and ackonwledged your role in the problems, which should provide you with a sense of strength going forward.

 

All the best 90k down or not it sounds like you have a bright future ahead.

[Untouchable_Fire]

It was a hard and bitter fight one I ultimately "lost".

 

You didn't lose. You won.

 

It may take some time for you to see that.

[NewSunrise]

Hey JW-

 

Your post is dejavu. Walked in your shoes 2+ yrs ago.

 

50% of the blame towards BS? That's a little too harsh and would disagree. Marriage requires 2 people. Communication is a must in any marriage or R if it has a shot to survive. If your WW didn't communicate to you (as my XWH did not) of her unhappiness, how could/would you fix what you didn't know was broken? I posed this to XWH and he didn't have a good answer. What was his answer inquiry mind wants to know? He said, "I guess you're right...I don't know". WS usually don't have logical answers.

 

Because you have decided to move on, I can tell you that you will BECOME a much stronger person. For every relationship we are forced to leave either by choice or not are life lessons thrown at us. Sounds like you have found your own challenge---to want to change.

 

One day at a time JW. And yeah, emotionally/mentally, you'll find yourself taking two steps back once in a while. But as time goes on, the load gets a little lighter to keep you from falling back.

 

Hang in there. It will be even better.

[NewSunrise]

All the best 90k down or not it sounds like you have a bright future ahead.

Yeah I'd say.

 

The short fall might be a blessing in disguise in the event your W decides to want to make you pay for divorcing her? Just a thought....

[jj33]

That wasnt what I meant but true as well.

[desertmoon]

ohhhhh gosh..well, at least you are no longer in limbo...now you do not have to worry about other things healing in your life but yourself...time to focus solely on jwi71! more power!

[jwi71]

I'm at a loss.

 

Had my MC...really IC today. First one after filing for D and asking the W to move out.

 

About ten minutes into it I hear someone come in the reception followed by a soft knock on the door. Dr. "X", looking a bit perplexed said excuse me and opened the door.

 

Yup. Her. She was standing looking very nervous, scared and afraid.

 

I was stunned. I would have been less surprised had Darth Vader been there.

 

She asked to come in and Dr X looked at me. 1000 thoughts raced through my head but it boiled down to yes or no. She had to have taken time off work and had something to say to return to our MC. So I said yes.

 

She sat down and said:

 

I don't want the divorce. I want to rebuild our M.

She then proceeded to tell me of what she has learned and said more of all the right things (The A is my fault, I was just as neglectful, I took you for granted, etc).

 

Honestly, I got a little cross. I mean it was the same **** all over.

 

And then she changed my perception. She produced three pieces of paper. Receipts - for hour long sessions with our MC that I didn't know about. She was using her CC so I never saw them hit our bank accounts. She had been going for 6 weeks, working on herself.

 

So wtf. Color me confused. I have been in turmoil ever since this afternoon. I don't know what to do. I had already "turned the corner". I was "ok" with the D.

 

Our MC did tell me that she had been seeing her and she requested it be kept from me. He also said and she concurred that this was not a setup and she knew of the appt because I had told her. I don't remember but its not top secret info or anything. She said she wanted to prove that she was sincere with concrete actions.

 

So...I went from the turmoil of D to this turmoil.

 

She is asleep in bed (no sex). The kids are asleep in their room. We talked at length until almost midnight. And I am here typing away trying to grasp today's events.

 

This limbo sucks. Its hell. I find myself questioning her and myself. Second guessing sucks.

 

This sucks.

 

Confused.