isoleaf Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 So if he instead says he wants someone to clean house, cook and wash laundry, is that also OK? If women expect to be financially supported, what SHOULD a man expect from a woman? the fact of the matter is, you should STOP LISTENING TO WOMEN regarding WHAT THEY WANT. sounding chauvinistic? well hold on... women are all EXTREMELY different and have EXTREMELY different logic and rationalization models from each other. there are some women who prefer financial independence, and some who prefer to be taken care of. you can't take anything any ONE woman says to speak for ALL women. nothing any woman says will help you with a DIFFERENT woman, and it may very well not help you with that woman either. you gotta listen to the woman you're with and THEN adjust yourself accordingly. don't try to pre-figure it out. it's not gonna happen. hate to break it to you but the only way to know for sure and to do it right is to LISTEN AND PAY ATTENTION TO THE WOMAN IN QUESTION (God forbid). most men want the same things. someone who is independent, loyal, will do a few of the things they like to do with an open mind, and who is attractive. that's about it. basically in layman's terms, strength, faithfulness, understanding, and sex. some women require good looks, others are WAY more lenient. some women require lots of money, others are WAY more lenient. some women just need a good connection. some women want a man who'll just do whatever they want. some women don't mind a sensitive and gentle man while some are DISGUSTED by them. some women prefer to be the power person and at the wheel, some women prefer the man to drive. some like it somewhere in between. i'd say it's similar to sexually pleasing the sexes. with men, there's generally one way to do it and everything just floats around the average. with women, EVERY WOMAN likes something different. or take sports or video games for instance. almost EVERY MAN can talk to one another at LENGTH due to these common interests even if all their other interests aside from those are wildly different. while female interests have FAR more variability and those differences seep down to the core. HOWEVER, if you're a real man, you can turn it out regardless. these days, as a man, you gotta blow EVERYTHING out of the water if you want to be competitive anymore. there is no more focusing on either your looks or your money or your approach or your whatever. you gotta have it all or at least a little bit of each. what's nice is that men are now demanding it all as well, and that's why women these days are starting to sweat asking questions like, "Where'd all the nice guys go?" ... "Why are all the guys asking for financially independent women?" ... "I just want a guy to take care of me... is that so much to ask?" it's because the strongest women have demanded the best and set the standard high and got it and now they require the strongest men. but now the strongest men are only content with the strongest women and now all the lesser women are left asking the above questions as are the lesser men. but i gotta say ladies, you started it (this is NOT necessarily a BAD thing by any means). frankly, i worked my ASS off to be successful with women and i AM (thank God). any man or woman complaining about having to actually do **** isn't going to get any pity from me or anyone else. you deserve what you put in. i work hard to live up to standard, and that's the way it should be if i even want to THINK about exercising my own standards. this is all from a feminist who believes in equality. if you're gonna ask for it, you better damn well deserve it. i ain't gonna feel sorry for anyone (man or woman) who doesn't feel like working hard for love.
isoleaf Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Both of you can't see the forest for the trees. Both men and women remain with abusive and cheating partners. Both men and women can make the same or similar mistakes of selecting this type of partner. To blanket all women as people who go back to abusive and/or cheating partners is just...plain...wrong. Just because Rihanna did it, doesn't mean that every woman would do so. Case in point, myself. I found out the ex-H cheated and he got kicked to the curb. Now I'm with someone who treats me the way I deserve. As for women wanting to change men, that's a valid point, to an extent. I'm going to give you my take on changing men. If something annoys me, I'll speak up. If he doesn't listen, I'm gone. I won't nag. In men not wanting women to change, how is that possible when people age, have children and gain experience? This is just as unrealistic a need from men, than women wanting men to change. It's all a push. true but many men do change and it still doesn't work. actually many men go to great lengths to change. from my qualitative analysis after being on forums and hearing many many many stories of married and divorced individuals (both bitter and objective), it seems that the change was to improve the marriage. but this would only work if it was solely the man's behavior causing the marriage to self-destruct. however, usually these marriages deteriorate (surprise surprise) not simply because of the man's actions. these relationships are usually already doomed because the couple simply did not love each other enough in the first place. does anyone really think that high divorce rates are solely the fault of men? it's obvious our society has a hard time selecting mates and that fault lies equally on BOTH sides. i highly doubt a woman's heart could be so easily won over with just a bit of change. if a marriage is failing, it's usually because of severe underlying reasons. not simply because the man isn't listening to the woman when she's asking him to smoke less or put the seat down or if they're having less sex than they used to. any kind of serious love would be able to overcome these barriers without a hitch. i don't really understand how men want women to NOT change, i've never really heard that stereotype. could you elaborate on that? do you mean at the beginning of a relationship when things are fun and the man doesn't want to get serious? are you talking about the fear of commitment stereotype? or do you mean that men are asking that women not age after marriage or something like that? i don't really think men expect this...
clv0116 Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 the fact of the matter is, you should STOP LISTENING TO WOMEN regarding WHAT THEY WANT. Oh I don't - I'm just pointing out the apparent double standard.
Trialbyfire Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Men are starting to act more like women? No wonder my brother was so b*tchy last weekend; I bet he was PMSing.Check his medicine cabinet. If he's got a box of tampons with no wife or g/f in sight, get him to a doctor...STAT! More than likely it's just your standard IMSing.
isoleaf Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Oh I don't - I'm just pointing out the apparent double standard. true but men want fewer and more general things. and they prefer it this way. thus they have to deal with the consequences of asking for less. the way to solve the double standard? ask for more. which brings us full circle. men ARE asking for more, thus they are being tagged as "women."
fral945 Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 i don't really understand how men want women to NOT change, i've never really heard that stereotype. You've never heard of the wife that gains 50 lbs and quits putting out? That the kind of change men fear.
isoleaf Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 You've never heard of the wife that gains 50 lbs and quits putting out? That the kind of change men fear. i'm pretty sure that's the kind of change women fear too... what's ur point? fact of the matter is, that type of change is understandably difficult to endure and if TBF is talking about that kind of change then seriously, not gaining 50 lbs and still trying to keep the romance alive isn't some insane principle. it should be a given. if this is the type of "non-change" that TBF is referring to, then i'd say that it's perfectly reasonable for ANY person (man OR woman) to expect this (as long as they are holding their end of the deal as well). you get what you give. and thus you have a right to expect what you give. this goes for anyone. if you're working hard, you deserve to demand hard work in return. problems arise when people don't want to give the effort but expect it all to just roll right in to them.
White Flower Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Perhaps they just dont want a women who expects to be taken care of financially. Would you want to date a jobless guy who expected you to pay for everything? Probably not, why cant men expect the same? There are also adds with women who want a financially secure man as well. There is nothing wrong with wanting to date someone who is stable. I agree with you actually. It is just that as the roles change in one gender, so it changes in the other. In the past, a man wouldn't dream of allowing a woman to work or pay for anything. As women are now working, men seem to be getting more sensitive or weak. Unfortunately, sometimes the changes within each person/R do not mesh. Some of us women worked, paid for everything, did all the work around the house and still got sissy husbands who did nothing. So, if the guy wants to be the boss, he should also do all the hard work and pay for everything. If he wants to be an equal, then he should share the workload equally.
White Flower Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Look at how Rhianna went back to Chris Brown after he beat her to a pulp. It's horrible what happened to her but I can't feel any sympathy when she just goes back for more. OK, I can't claim to have seen anything, but a friend of a friend who is an insider said that Rhianna provokes CB all the time at an unbelievable pace. While I don't believe any man should succomb to provocation, I can see that if it is repetative, and the woman KNOWS what he'll do when he's provoked, she is asking for it. It just becomes their way. Having said that, I was not there, did not see it, and have only heard it as second-hand news. So I agree, she should not go back for more.
White Flower Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Both of you can't see the forest for the trees. Both men and women remain with abusive and cheating partners. Both men and women can make the same or similar mistakes of selecting this type of partner. To blanket all women as people who go back to abusive and/or cheating partners is just...plain...wrong. Just because Rihanna did it, doesn't mean that every woman would do so. Case in point, myself. I found out the ex-H cheated and he got kicked to the curb. Now I'm with someone who treats me the way I deserve. As for women wanting to change men, that's a valid point, to an extent. I'm going to give you my take on changing men. If something annoys me, I'll speak up. If he doesn't listen, I'm gone. I won't nag. In men not wanting women to change, how is that possible when people age, have children and gain experience? This is just as unrealistic a need from men, than women wanting men to change. It's all a push. Great points. And not all women would 'go back for more'. Those who do just take longer in learning their lesson if they learn at all.
White Flower Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 So if he instead says he wants someone to clean house, cook and wash laundry, is that also OK? If women expect to be financially supported, what SHOULD a man expect from a woman? I kind of answered your question to another poster on page 11 of this thread but I will elaborate here. It is actually fine to post whatever you are looking for on a dating website whether it be old-fashioned values or modern ones. I just find it interesting that more and more men are looking for professional women and 'financially secure' ones. They may be seeking this for a myriad of reasons. One could be that they don't like spendaholics and I don't blame them. Another reason could be that they have spending issues themselves and a woman who makes lots of $$$ can aide them in their habit. The second kind is the kind I married. I made 20% of what he made yet I was expected to pay for half of everything. So I get a little antsy when I see a posting like that on a dating website. I hope they are just looking for someone who can take care of herself and is financially responsible but I get leery that he just hopes to find someone who he can take advantage of financially. And gamble my future away.
little101 Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 ok i can tell u right now that i agree 100 percent. i dont know how young the men are that you have been dating or seeing but many of the men i know are always the ones who never pursue they stand and let you do all the work into capturing their attention. along with that they always get upset over the littlest things like "you never hangout with me anymore!" ok what man gets upset over you not spending time with him every day this was my friends boyfriend, she has been in a relationship with him for about 2 years now and this is how hes acting along with many other guys i know who have been acting just as weird and annoying i feel like they have all lost confidence
Trialbyfire Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Great points. And not all women would 'go back for more'. Those who do just take longer in learning their lesson if they learn at all.Yes, and same goes for men! For example, if a poster is rude and is blatantly looking to agitate, sometimes I ignore them completely until they display modified consistently good behaviour.
Author 9Lives Posted March 5, 2009 Author Posted March 5, 2009 I tend to stop talking when I am being hassled for no good reason or when I know she is in the wrong. Why? because us men, if we fight back and let our feelings be known are seen as controlling jerks, and some would even call a man that yells back, or says anything in defense as "abusive". Why do I stop talking? Because she can't stand it when I am not talking. It makes her step back and take a look at her behavior. I usually say something like, "until you apologize, I have nothing to say to you" see this a man acting like a b/tch. Why cant just deal with it situation instead of running and backing up like a scare little baby? I am not attacking you per say..I am saying, talk about it or tell her what you think or something. How can you see the situation for what it is if you fallback when the heat is on. It is rediculous
White Flower Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Yes, and same goes for men! For example, if a poster is rude and is blatantly looking to agitate, sometimes I ignore them completely until they display modified consistently good behaviour. LOL, gotchya.
Woggle Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 If a woman is being unreasonable I tell her that I never argue with crazy people, drunks or junkies and I walk away. It lets her know that she is crazy and there is no use trying to reason with her. I have no problem whatsoever standng up to a woman but you just don't argue with wackos no matter what gender they are. If it happens too much she will be out of my life.
clv0116 Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 I kind of answered your question to another poster on page 11 of this thread but I will elaborate here. It is actually fine to post whatever you are looking for on a dating website whether it be old-fashioned values or modern ones. I just find it interesting that more and more men are looking for professional women and 'financially secure' ones. They may be seeking this for a myriad of reasons. One could be that they don't like spendaholics and I don't blame them. Another reason could be that they have spending issues themselves and a woman who makes lots of $$$ can aide them in their habit. The second kind is the kind I married. I made 20% of what he made yet I was expected to pay for half of everything. So I get a little antsy when I see a posting like that on a dating website. I hope they are just looking for someone who can take care of herself and is financially responsible but I get leery that he just hopes to find someone who he can take advantage of financially. And gamble my future away. I see no flaws with your plan. I just object to being saddled with all my traditional tasks PLUS half yours. If we're gonna split the load, you get half of mine, I take half yours. If not, I do mine, you do yours. Fair is fair.
Dexter Morgan Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 see this a man acting like a b/tch. Why cant just deal with it situation instead of running and backing up like a scare little baby? I am not attacking you per say Because, the silent treatment gets to her better. She can handle the yelling, she just yells right back. But when I give her the silent treatment, she can't stand it...and eventually apologizes. In other words.....I win. ..I am saying, talk about it or tell her what you think or something. That is what we do BEFORE the silent treatment. The silent treatment comes when she is being unreasonable and doesn't want to see that she is in the wrong, at that point she isn't worthy of my dialogue and eventually comes around. and during the silent treatment, I do what I want, come and go as I please...hit the gym...whatever. The silent treatment actually gives me space too. How can you see the situation for what it is if you fallback when the heat is on. It is rediculous Again, it makes her take a look at herself and she ends up tucking her tail between her legs and apologizing. That and it just eats at her when I won't talk to her...that is MY version of giving her "heat". And it works quite well. Again....I win.
isoleaf Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 see this a man acting like a b/tch. Why cant just deal with it situation instead of running and backing up like a scare little baby? I am not attacking you per say..I am saying, talk about it or tell her what you think or something. How can you see the situation for what it is if you fallback when the heat is on. It is rediculous actually, the silent treatment is usually a response to the WOMAN acting like a b/tch and being otherwise unreasonable. men aren't good at talking down women generally speaking and when a woman is upset and needs something resolved, sometimes resolving the matter doesn't resolve the upset feelings and the argument continues in circles. there are two scenarios for these conditions: 1. the woman is right. 2. the man is right. as long as the issue is resolved and all points on the table, in EITHER scenario the "silent treatment" works to the man's favor. 1. if the woman is right then the silence is asking her to stop and shows contrition and acceptance. 2. if the man is right then the silence says that the issue is resolved and all points are on the table. stop talking and look at those points and see my point of view before we begin discussion again. that way we'll be moving forward vs one step forward two steps back. just because silence isn't how a woman deals with certain things doesn't mean that it's completely useless. i'm a VERY open and communicative person but sometimes people are just upset and take it out on you. men respond to irrationality with silence as words are seen as a waste at that point whereas women feel like the words will clear up the space. in my opinion, both are important. but silence is VERY useful as it forces one to think more about the different perspectives in the situation vs trying to talk about your own perspective.
White Flower Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 I see no flaws with your plan. I just object to being saddled with all my traditional tasks PLUS half yours. If we're gonna split the load, you get half of mine, I take half yours. If not, I do mine, you do yours. Fair is fair.Sounds very fair to me.
clv0116 Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Sounds very fair to me. I agree, however I should be clear; when I say do your half of my job I mean that if you want me to do half the housework, you pay half the bills, so if you earn 20% of what I earn you're gonna have money issues.
Author 9Lives Posted March 6, 2009 Author Posted March 6, 2009 Because, the silent treatment gets to her better. She can handle the yelling, she just yells right back. But when I give her the silent treatment, she can't stand it...and eventually apologizes. In other words.....I win. That is what we do BEFORE the silent treatment. The silent treatment comes when she is being unreasonable and doesn't want to see that she is in the wrong, at that point she isn't worthy of my dialogue and eventually comes around. and during the silent treatment, I do what I want, come and go as I please...hit the gym...whatever. The silent treatment actually gives me space too. Again, it makes her take a look at herself and she ends up tucking her tail between her legs and apologizing. That and it just eats at her when I won't talk to her...that is MY version of giving her "heat". And it works quite well. Again....I win. Okay but what if you are wrong. Meaning you are mistreating her and she is standing up for herself. It is not fair to give her the silent treatment when you are disrespecting her. That is so painful because it is like you want me to feel bad when you mistreat me and you want me to feel bad when I stand up for myself. This is very hard a woman
White Flower Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 I agree, however I should be clear; when I say do your half of my job I mean that if you want me to do half the housework, you pay half the bills, so if you earn 20% of what I earn you're gonna have money issues. Actually, now you don't sound so clear. Are you saying that you work where women get paid the same as men for the same job? If so, and you were married to a woman who you worked with and made the same income, who would be doing the 'traditional' work at home? Is it then and only then that you share the workload at home equally? Or do you prefer a stay at home woman who cooks three meals per day and scrubs and cleans and raises your children? No judgment, just asking. And if so, would you give her an allowance? How much is she worth? Her providing you with offspring who will take care of you when you're old isn't priceless to you? I know plenty of men whose wives don't work outside the home but still share the work load at home because it takes a lot to run a household. It is so obvious if not ignored. Look at all the single/D guys who hire housekeepers, gardeners, and daycare providers to help raise their kids. So many men understand how they benefit financially from having wives and live-in girlfriends. To the OP, whatever the changes are between men and women in today's society it is so important to discuss it to the death before marriage!!! And make sure they DEMONSTRATE behavior that is to your preferences and not just empty words.
Hughesy Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 If women want men to act like men, women had better start acting like women instead of men. Isolde's comments are laughable, no wonder she can't find a bf, who would put up with her Nazi-Feminism.
Eweezy Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Hi LS, I have noticed that so called men these day are more and more acting like they are the women in relationship. Let me explain i notice that if a man is dating a woman and she gets upset about something he did or said....the guy will....stop talking to her for a while or...get upset because she mentioned it....even if she did it nicely. He just wants her to shut up and deal with the bul/s on her own. I another thing I notice is that guys want you to take them out and will ask you ....when are you talking me out or you buying me lunch? It is strange. It is like they are the prize and we are lucky to have them. Is it me? or are guys starting to act like b/tches in relationships these days hell I want to write a book called..."Thinking you a man, Acting like a b/tch" LOL That's all I can say.
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