redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I just received an email from the ex. It said "Thanks for sending me my mail. I received notification from the post office that it will be forwarded, so you shouldn't have to deal with it much longer. So, I guess, I need to know what you want to do with the ring. " So, I assume this means that he wants the engagement ring back now. We already had a conversation previously where he said that it was mine, and he would never want it to be sold. This was a VERY expensive handmade custom designed ring that is engraved with an inscription he chose. It says "I'll be here for you always" in French. Kinda funny now, huh? I don't want to get in a debate about the law and what people think about returning rings. Been there, done that. I am in NC, so I assume I shouldn't respond. I feel we already had a conversation about the ring. Why is he bringing it up again? To hurt me? He doesn't need the money, that's for sure. Is this all he has to contact me over? I need some feedback. I just spent half an hour bawling my eyes out. A few weeks ago I sent him an email, before I went NC. It was 3 pages long, and I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted to say, and covered a lot of what I felt was good and bad about our relationship, and basically poured my heart out. He thanked me for sending it and said that he wanted to write me back and respond, but that he needed time to think about what he wanted to say and reread my message a few times. I ended up getting 2 or 3 lousy sentences as a response. And what is the frown for, I know this is sad, why state the obvious? I am very, very angry and disappointed right now. I can't even express it in writing, I am just blown away by his lack of effort and caring. We were supposed to be MARRIED, and he just threw it all away for no real reason at all. It makes no sense, he knows it doesn't make sense, it's insane. I can't think about it anymore. What a great day. Between this and having 5 different people ask me about my wedding plans and why I wasn't wearing my ring today, I have had it. How do I move on with this is constantly in my face every friggin day? I am trying to be strong, but how much can one person stand day in and day out? I feel so tired of all of this, and tired of being pushed back down, and tired of feeling like crap. Help!
Truly Lost Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Aww, sweetie, I'm so sorry you are hurt. My advice, at this point, is to return the ring. It offers no solice to your situation. You can't do anything with it. I don't know what caused your break up, but for whatever reason, he is trying to sever himself from you. Not to say that it is permanent, but in any case, since you are no longer engaged, at least on his end, its only the right thing to do to give the ring back. Don't ask questions. Tell him he can have it back. You never know how he will take your willingness to give it back. You may want to fignt for it, but why?? He obviously wants it back to perhaps recoup money. If he owes you money, lets say, with the amount of money you put in to the wedding arrangements, then its a totally different story. You don't want to use the ring in a hostage situation, but if you suffered financial loss because of his decision, then perhaps this is your leverage. I hope you will resolve this situation soon. Good luck.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 I don't know what to do. Am I supposed to respond to his email? That is breaking NC, isn't it? I don't understand why he is asking me about the ring when we already had a conversation about it and resolved it, he said it was mine and that I should keep it. He is putting it on me by saying "what do you want to do with the ring?" He isn't actually saying that HE wants it back. Does he not remember the conversation we had all of sudden? I hate this. I really don't know what to do about it. If he directly asked me to return it, which I don't think he has done, then I will give it back to him. It makes me want to be sick to think of it being sold or destroyed for its parts. It's a work of art that I designed, and it meant so much to me, and not because of what it's worth, because of the sentiment behind it. You will say that the bond is broken, but I guess I am not ready to let go. I may feel different about it down the line, but right now, I think it would really be hurtful to know that his greed was bigger than the original sentiment. He doesn't need the money from the ring, he is more than fine without it. It's not about money. I didn't incur any debt from wedding arrangements because I fought tooth and nail to get my $2500 deposit back from the venue, and succeeded. I am at a loss here...a few weeks ago I was getting texts from him saying "Life isn't life without you" and "I hate this" and "my heart misses you" and now this...I am so bloody confused.
Truly Lost Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Tell him simply if he wants it back he can have it. What could it hurt? Right? You should let him know that you are confused by his email. He is obviously hurting and confused too. You probably just need to call him. I hate to give you this advice, but sometimes talking it out is the best resolution. If he doesn't pick up, then don't call him again. But.....DONT CALL HIM TONIGHT. Wait till tomorrow or a better time. I hope you aren't using my advice as the only reason to call him.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 I don't want to call him, I have told myself that I am on strict NC and have adhered to that promise to myself, come hel*l or high water, for 17 days. I went NC because I learned the hard way that being in contact was inhibiting my ability to heal and move in a positive direction. So, he can just waltz in with his stupid email and I am supposed to throw my progress by the wayside? This doesn't make sense to me, especially when we already had a conversation about it. It will set me back to talk to him, I know this. Why would I willingly do that to myself? I don't have possession of the ring. I gave it to my mother for safe keeping when this all happened. I literally took it off my finger and handed it to her. I can't look at it without losing it and bawling. I feel like if I do anything, I should respond to the email and say that I thought the issue of the ring was resolved when we talked about it before, but if you've changed your mind, and want it back, then you can call my parents and set up a time to get it from them. Maybe when you do that you can explain to them why you asked for their blessing to marry me, and then threw it all away on a whim over something so insignificant that it's a joke. I am sure they'd love to know why you have broken every promise, especially the one engraved in that ring, and broken their daughter's heart into a million pieces. How does that sound?
Truly Lost Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Well, it sounds like you have thought about it extensively and should perhaps reply to his email with what you just told me. I don't know what else to tell you. Nothing is going to happen by ignoring every attempt this guy has to come back at you. Obviously its not another woman, but issues with the heart, or is it? Every situation is unique. I don't want you to contact him to break your own rule of no contact, but what else is there to do. Just forget that each other is there and move on....he sent you an email in a feeble attempt to contact you. Should you just ignore it and move on...I don't think you want to "just move on", with no resolution. You conversation is not over yet. I guess you just need to pick and choose your battles with him. What are you willing to do about that....you tell me?
Island Girl Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I don't think you should contact him at all! And you already had the conversation about the ring so that is a closed subject. When you poured your heart out he had the opportunity to talk to you then. He chose not to - so be it. Communication with him does not sound like it would be healthy for you. And YOU are the only one you need to worry about.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 He is at a mental crossroads. He is in therapy. He has extensive problems with going into "fight or flight" mode over what end up being miscommunications. He ended our life together in a premarital couples counseling session because I was telling the doctor about some of his less than desirable behaviors on our recent vacation. (buying Vicodin and Xanax in Mexico, and taking those pills while drinking and taking antidepressants. He also has sleep apnea and is not supposed to take stuff like that, they won't prescribe it to him). He knows that there is a huge problem and that it stems from issues related to his childhood. He was adopted and raised in an emotionally neglectful environment. I think he probably has adult attachment disorder, along with many other issues, and has been diagnosed with dysthymia (chronic depression). He doesn't know how to feel safe in a relationship. So when I pointed out his behavior in that session, he got defensive, felt attacked, and lashed out impulsively. Since then, he has apologized, said that he still loves me, wishes he didn't react that way, and misses our life together so much. But then, he cant promise that it wouldn't happen again either, because he doesn't fully understand what is going on with him. Not even at square one. It's really so sad, I can't even tell you. But yes, he let me down, and my whole family, too. He spent 2 years worth of holidays and birthdays and dinners and good times with my family, and became a part of it. I think he owes them an apology too. I really do. Not sure what I am going to do, guess I will sleep on it and let all the emotions and sadness and puffy eye bags from crying subside, and figure it out when my head is clearer.
sunshine1 Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I really don't have any advice as I am going through my own problems with a guy who seems to react in a similar way. I just wanted to tell you that your post seemed intelligent and helpful to my situation. You have enlightened me a little bit and I feel that you are a strong person on the right path. If he is meant for you he will grow through his problems to be with you, but you must do what you are doing and heal yourself and go your own way. Best of luck!
Ronni_W Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Big hugs, redmelon. I'd look at it as serious enough to require my response -- if my ex contacted me about a high-value financial thing (as if I owe it to him or am trying to rip him off), you bet your life I'd respond! "We've already discussed about my ring. Nothing has changed, or will change." I wouldn't add hello, goodbye or any freakin' emoticons -- who knows WHAT he was thinking, about that? To me, breaking N/C is about unimportant/frivolous communications, looking for any old excuse to contact, etc. I wouldn't see this as being such a case, so I'd not even count it as really breaking N/C. Red, I'm sure it is very painful when people ask you about your (former) wedding plans. Possibly you can find relief/forgiveness for their clumsiness by considering that they don't know what has transpired and are actually only demonstrating their caring and interest. I know it sucks. But there is value in that saying about trying to turn lemons into lemonade -- if/when you can, focus on those things that will help you feel a tad better. he let me down, and my whole family, too. He spent 2 years worth of holidays and birthdays and dinners and good times with my family, and became a part of it. I think he owes them an apology too. I really do. Nah, he doesn't really. But. It's up to your family members to decide what, if anything, he does "owe" them. (Goes to what I mentioned in your other thread -- getting caught up in things that are out of your personal power, control and/or authority -- over-responsibility/lack of appropriate boundaries.) Wishing you brighter days ahead.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 Well, I slept on it and woke up with a killer headache. Figures! I am angry that he just swoops in and I am left to feel like garbage. I think I will reply to his message on Monday. I will say something like: "We already had a conversation about the ring and came to an agreement, which I plan to uphold. My feelings about this have not changed from our previous discussion." For some reason, I feel like I am going to be hurt a lot more by this person before I really get to be free. Knowing that is the root cause of my incessant anxiety. It all just continues to shock me.
Ronni_W Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I feel like I am going to be hurt a lot more by this person before I really get to be free. Hate to say it, but I was thinking along those same lines -- could be that he will start bugging you about that ring...and perhaps whatever else he can think to bug you about . Except. I'd have put it a little differently. (because) It is within your own power, control and authority to choose whether or not to be continuously hurt and shocked by his insensitive, under-developed antics. Instead of just leaving yourself vulnerable and exposed, why not start preparing, planning and building your appropriate defenses to minimize his further hurtful/negative impact on you? "Fore-warned is fore-armed" type of thing. Block his phone numbers and email addresses, cut him off on Facebook, IM, etc. That is, exert your appropriate authority, set your own boundaries, take full control of your own emotional healing and freedom -- IMO, that's what your Self needs and, especially, deserves from you. Hugs...hope your headache has subsided, or soon will
gwynieatpain Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Redmelon. HUG!!!! I have been there too. Same thing. At the beginning he said he broke his promise and felt awful about it so I should keep the ring. Two months later, he asked me back for the ring. I ignored him completely. Difference is. I have given him a ring as well and I bet he wasn't going to return that ring to me. Let me guess! He's blaming you for the break up as if you are the one forcing him to do it. He's keeping your stuff as well? Coz my ex did. The ring? Ignore him. Subject closed. Don't entertain him.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 I suppose I have been looking at the demise of the break-up from a certain vantage point. I have been seeing it as a tragedy, of sorts. Through our relationship, he grew so much, become so much more self aware, and was working toward understanding the root causes of his insecurities and behaviors. This is also the reason that the relationship ended. I never told myself that he doesn't love me, doesn't want to be with me, doesn't see the good things in me as a person. He's said that he loves me through all of this messiness. I just saw this as a period in time where he honestly is up against the wall and needs to decide what he wants out of his life - as it can't work well in the current fashion. I have no idea what he is thinking. He could very well have decided that nothing is wrong with him and it's just all been caused because I am not the right person for him. Who knows?! It just doesn't seem right that it's all been so easily dismantled -when it took so much to build. I have no real understanding of his side of things, and what I do know doesn't make any sense. It seems ridiculous to me that the issue of the ring is even on his radar right now, when the focus should be him and his many problems. i guess there is a small part of me that sees him pining for me eternally, knowing he lost the best thing he ever had, the most loyal and loving person he has ever known. I think that should impact him always. I guess this current email makes me feel like he doesn't care, he isn't regretful, and doesn't see what he has lost. Am I reading too much into it? UGH! Maybe he is just feeling me out, doesn't remember the other conversation, or doesn't have any other concrete reason to contact me? He, of his own accord, said to me before when we spoke about the ring, that HE WANTS ME TO KEEP IT. I said I would, and that I would never sell it. WTF WTF WTF.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 I simply said: "We already came to an agreement about the ring. You said you didn't want it back and wanted me to keep it, as it was made for me. We both agreed that it shouldn't be sold or destroyed for its parts." If he writes back that he has changed his mind, then I will tell him to contact my mother to arrange to pick it up. The burden should be on HIM to specifically say I WANT IT BACK though, and he hasn't done that. So, until the time where he grows the balls to do so, I am holding him to what he said previously. Coward.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 Gwyn: The main reason I decided to go NC with him is because YES he was trying to blame me for the break up. He actually would go back and forth between crying and saying he was miserable and loves me and wishes he didn't react the way he did and knows it was wrong, to saying that I shouldn't have acted the way I did and didn't communicate properly and blah blah. So, I couldn't deal with the wishy-washy push and pull anymore and told him I was moving on. It was too hurtful to listen to him talk about it. Regardless of who was to blame, this was NEVER a good reason to break off an engagement, and especially on a whim in a split second decision because he felt "backed in a corner" and "defensive". It's obvious the he is emotionally stunted and immature. He has problems, big ones, and cannot cope with or process anger. I see that it's for the best and he can't provide a stable environment for a relationship or a potential family, but it still hurts me so very much. I just had to close the door, and I don't relish this sort of contact from him. I guess it's all that's left to talk about - even though he had already said that he made a decision about it.
Author redmelon Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 He wrote: "I'd like it back. How can I get it?" I wrote call my mom, she has it and gave the number. Then I added, please refrain from contacting me any further. Thank you. After that, I received a phone call, which I ignored, and another email asking, "Why does your mom have it?" Is it that hard to surmise that I didn't want to look at it and gave it to her for safekeeping until I was ready? What a dipsh*it. I am not going to make this easy for him, if he wants it, he will have to face the music, and my sweet loving mother, who was so very sweet and kind to him. I am out. I am done. There is no going back. Onward with NC.
Fiaman Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I say simply return the ring without saying anything.
darby1 Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 If ya don't want the guy.. why do you want the ring? If ya already had a conversation about the ring that was not vague and he clearly stated that you keep the ring, then yes you keep it. BUT if you assumed by his comment that it meant you could keep the ring in wishful thinking.. ha! well there's one reason your relationship didn't work in the first place.. you expect him to read between your lines and you assume he speaks in code too, when meaning does not go beyond the words he speaks. Personally, I would let the ring go with he man to make room for a ring that fits. Do as you will.. you have every intention to. He got the ring for the woman who he thought would love him forever. Its his choice for you to have the ring, not yours. A ring is more than a gift.. it's a symbol of your unity.. an expensive symbol you don't have the right to, without consent. Loose contact him, and let it go. he will pop up again and again.. keep ignoring him. But get him back the ring.
sunshinegirl Posted March 1, 2009 Posted March 1, 2009 I think the etiquette in broken engagements is this: if the guy breaks off the engagement, the woman has the right to keep the ring. If the woman breaks it off, she should return the ring to the guy. He sounds like a mess - and not just from how he's handled the breakup. He sounds like a mess of a human being. Sorry for your pain.
Author redmelon Posted March 1, 2009 Author Posted March 1, 2009 If ya don't want the guy.. why do you want the ring? If ya already had a conversation about the ring that was not vague and he clearly stated that you keep the ring, then yes you keep it. BUT if you assumed by his comment that it meant you could keep the ring in wishful thinking.. ha! well there's one reason your relationship didn't work in the first place.. you expect him to read between your lines and you assume he speaks in code too, when meaning does not go beyond the words he speaks. Personally, I would let the ring go with he man to make room for a ring that fits. Do as you will.. you have every intention to. He got the ring for the woman who he thought would love him forever. Its his choice for you to have the ring, not yours. A ring is more than a gift.. it's a symbol of your unity.. an expensive symbol you don't have the right to, without consent. Loose contact him, and let it go. he will pop up again and again.. keep ignoring him. But get him back the ring. Excuse me DARBY, but you sound quite bitter, and come off as rude. I specified early on that I am not starting this thread as a place for people to debate their views on engagement ring etiquette. There was nothing "vague" about my conversation with him about the ring and I assumed nothing. I think him saying that I should keep it and it was made for me is quite clear. I know very well what the ring symbolizes, I don't need you to clarify that for me. What an idiotic rant. You are preaching and I don't need to hear this crap. AS IT TURNS OUT - he was using the ring as a way to initiate contact with me. He texted me and said that he needed contact and had no other recourse than to bring up the ring. Since I was not in possession of the ring, he did call my parents and DID go to their house under the guise of retrieving said ring. He did not ever want the ring. He went and spoke to my parents, cried, apologized for his behavior, and thanked them for being so loving and treating him like a son. My parents are moved. My family is in an uproar. I had a glass of wine on my lunch outing with a girlfriend and feel like I am drunk somehow. It's a mess. I would love input from someone who isn;t preaching to the choir. UGH.
Island Girl Posted March 1, 2009 Posted March 1, 2009 You can be sure he will not give up so easily. He will try to contact you - and it may come out of the blue so just get your nerves steeled against that. Obviously don't live thinking, "is it going to be today?!!". But just realize that with his issues he is prone to emotional reactions and who knows when it will be a trigger for him. He may send an e-mail again. He may show up on your doorstep. Expect any excuse or the truth. You sound very together and extremely intelligent. So I am sure you know all of this already. I feel for you. I really do. I am glad you didn't get all the way through with the vows before he flipped out. It may take some time but you will move on from this.
Author redmelon Posted March 1, 2009 Author Posted March 1, 2009 Island Girl: Thank you so much for the compliment. I appreciate it more than you know. I don't know how together I am, but I am doing my best. Today I feel emotionally drained. Just worn out. Yesterday was a pretty dramatic ride. I like your idea of preparing for the next high tide, and will give it some thought. I read some of your posts the other day and was amazed by your story. Talk about a rollercoaster ride! You are a devoted and loyal woman. Most people wouldn't have the strength to persevere as you have. My best to you.
Island Girl Posted March 1, 2009 Posted March 1, 2009 Now it's my turn to thank you! And you know most all of my friends are married and they all have said many times over that they'd never have done what I have even for their current spouse which I just find amazing. To me, there is no choice. You must know that although your ex doesn't handle his feelings well, and blames you for things that are very clearly his problem, he still is aware that he had a great thing in you. He probably swings back and forth from anger to complete devastation. So he will be driven to contact you. He still wants to hear your voice at times or know that you haven't completely walked away. I know you have. You have had to and there was no other choice. It doesn't make things any easier when he springs contact on you. But it should make you feel better to know that you have escaped misery for the chance at a life with sunshine. I know it wasn't your choice to split but it is the best thing for you. HE has so much to work through and without proper medication I am afraid he is in for a long journey and not an easy one at that. It will take some time to get back to a stable feeling in your life but it will happen now. It just takes time. Keep yourself busy with things you like to do and just remember to expect the unexpected when it comes to your ex. I wish you the best. IG
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