Mountains10 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 While married, my wife did open a credit card or two that I was aware of. Once she wanted to separate, I found out about a bunch more that I had no idea about. Thinking I was doing the right thing, I've paid 50/50 on them even after she moved out. Now I'm at a point where I was laid off and definitely don't see us working this out or reconciling. I live in Georgia btw. Per our Separation Agreement that we discussed, but have not signed on yet, I will be taking on 1/3rd of the credit card debt. She's taking 2/3rds because she feels responsible for running them up w/o my knowledge. My question is, should I continue trying to pay them at this point? I asked her if the payments are retroactive back to when she moved out months ago, and per the agreement we decided upon and she said 'no'. Also, these cards have her name on them, none of them are in my name or joint accounts. I'm really confused on what the right thing to do is at this point. Am I being a doormat? Any opinions would be appreciated. Oh, and I know no one's a lawyer probably, so I'm not asking for legal advice. Once I get the Separation Agreement, I plan to seek legal advice, but right now I just don't have the funds to do so. Please help!
alphamale Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 if the cards are in her name only then you are under no legal obligation to pay anything on them. period.
clv0116 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 That's not really true - it depends on the State. In most places debts incurred DURING the marriage before the separation are shared, while those incurred AFTER the separation are typically not shared. Whose name is on the card is not relevant. If you signed a contract to pay, pay. I assume you had a lawyer for the separation contract?
alphamale Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 That's not really true - it depends on the State. In most places debts incurred DURING the marriage before the separation are shared, while those incurred AFTER the separation are typically not shared. then she should be paying part of his car payment and insurance
Trialbyfire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I'm not a lawyer but here's my layman's take. If she purchased items on her credit card for joint usage, you would have some responsibility towards the debt created by those items alone. Having said that, there are also too many factors involved that affect this, of which one is whether she had/has a separate source of income. I would stop paying her credit cards and put the money towards discussing it with a good divorce lawyer. There are probably jurisdictional nuances to all this.
Touche Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Hoo boy..similar thing happened to my H. His credit was ruined because of the ex. She was filling in those credit card forms that come in the mail under HIS name and using the credit cards for her own purchases. He paid them off eventually but yeah it did ruin his credit for a time. You do need a lawyer because it is different in different states. In my state, BOTH parties are responsible for any debt incurred during the marriage no matter WHOSE name is on it.
alphamale Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I'm not a lawyer this is quite apparent TBF If she purchased items on her credit card for joint usage, you would have some responsibility towards the debt created by those items alone. in most states who "uses" what is not taken into account. its assumed everything bought is joint (while you're married at least). So basically if i'm married and buy a box of condoms then they would be split 50/50 in a divorce. jurisdictional nuances wtf?
clv0116 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 then she should be paying part of his car payment and insurance Yup. Typically a divorce or separation contract modifies this basic rule to be an equitable but more reasonable split.
Trialbyfire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 this is quite apparent TBFThis is an inflammatory and insulting comment alpha. I'm curious why you feel it was necessary. in most states who "uses" what is not taken into account. its assumed everything bought is joint (while you're married at least). So basically if i'm married and buy a box of condoms then they would be split 50/50 in a divorce. How about a box of tampons or a $1500 dollar designer purse? wtf? Is this member American or living in your state, with identical laws and situation as yours for certain?
clv0116 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Is this member American or living in your state, with identical laws and situation as yours for certain? This is an important consideration as laws vary widely. My recommendation is that if the process has been amicable until now try to get a mediator to help you iron out the details together.
Author Mountains10 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Posted February 27, 2009 Just disregard my thread, I'm going to keep paying the bills until I don't have any money left anyways. I just think it's the right thing to do regardless.
Ronni_W Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 if the cards are in her name only then you are under no legal obligation to pay anything on them. period. then she should be paying part of his car payment and insurance Isn't that conflicting advice? If debts are only in HER name, he has no legal obligation to repay...but if they are only in HIS name, she does? Or am I missing something too obvious to see? Mountains, sorry you are going through this. I agree with those who are suggesting that proper legal advice may be your wisest course of action. Even if it is just an hour, to get a few of your more "basic" concerns cleared up, and not hiring the lawyer for your entire divorce proceedings. Hugs and best of luck.
clv0116 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Isn't that conflicting advice? He started by arguing with me but then he seemed to agree. I suspect maybe he looked it up in a legal advice forum or something. The statement you quoted second was part of an argument he started to make and then reconsidered. It's not conflicting advice.
alphamale Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 This is an inflammatory and insulting comment alpha. I'm curious why you feel it was necessary. i was just joking Just disregard my thread, I'm going to keep paying the bills until I don't have any money left anyways. I just think it's the right thing to do regardless. you can do whatever you want but legal advice would be warranted
clv0116 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 you can do whatever you want but legal advice would be warranted This cannot be stressed enough - find a mediation service and use them; they will be committed to keeping the process cooperative and can keep you out of blind alleys for a lot less money than a lawyer.
Author Mountains10 Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 I appreciate all of the advice, like I said, as much as I don't want to, I guess I just need to take the high road until I get the divorce papers and we settle. I'm just getting aggrevated with this whole situation. Maybe it's time for a little NC with the stbxw. Thanks again all! ------------------- New Tagline: Nice guys do finish last.
clv0116 Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I appreciate all of the advice, like I said, as much as I don't want to, I guess I just need to take the high road until I get the divorce papers and we settle. I'm just getting aggrevated with this whole situation. Maybe it's time for a little NC with the stbxw. Thanks again all! ------------------- New Tagline: Nice guys do finish last. Generally speaking debts incurred AFTER a separation are not shared. Get counsel and try to keep it amicable.
Trialbyfire Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Generally speaking debts incurred AFTER a separation are not shared. Get counsel and try to keep it amicable. Agreed, although they haven't filed their legal separation agreement so this might impact, reliant on jurisdiction. In my jurisdiction, there's no such thing as a legal separation agreement, to be filed in a court of law. The minute you stop cohabiting, is the minute you're considered separated. The only time legal agreements are filed, are for the purposes of custody, if you have children. Then, of course, as at the time of actual divorce. OP, I'm Canadian, living in the province of British Columbia. I don't know what country you're residing in.
Author Mountains10 Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 Agreed, although they haven't filed their legal separation agreement so this might impact, reliant on jurisdiction. In my jurisdiction, there's no such thing as a legal separation agreement, to be filed in a court of law. The minute you stop cohabiting, is the minute you're considered separated. The only time legal agreements are filed, are for the purposes of custody, if you have children. Then, of course, as at the time of actual divorce. OP, I'm Canadian, living in the province of British Columbia. I don't know what country you're residing in. I'm in Georgia, USA. Here, the minute you stop cohabiting, you are separated as well. I appreciate the advice.
Trialbyfire Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I'm in Georgia, USA. Here, the minute you stop cohabiting, you are separated as well. I appreciate the advice. Okay, now that might help for getting advice from people in Georgia who've gone through the process. I should define that we do have legal separation agreements but this is more a civil issue between the spouses, to do with asset splitting. I'm guessing that's what you're referring to, as well, in your opening post.
Gunny376 Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 As I see it your under no moral, legal, nor ethical obligation to help pay her debt that she undertook in and of own free will and without your knowledge. Alabama and Georgia have similar laws, (in that if the Georgia legislature passes a stupid @ss law, the Alabama legislature will do the exact same thing two weeks latter! ) Think about you probably agreed to paying 1/3 of the total credit card debt when freshly separated and you held out hope of an eventual reconciliation. But now you know that isn't going to happen, and what is all the more is you recently laid off in one of the worse economies since the Great Depression with no end in sight. Even if you feel morally obligated to do so, I would do so only in the privacy of the two of you and would not agree so in writing. If she goes under? Oh well that's something that she should have thought of before she walked out on you and the marriage, and before she took out all those credit cards! Now its the time to pay the piper! I wouldn't help with it were I you, and recently laid off and I'm retired military. I sure as hell wouldn't deplete any and all precious savings. Its every man and woman for themselves. Besides you said that you and she worked in the same place, who's to say that she want get caught up in the next round of layoffs, in which case she's screwed anyway. Don't make short term decisions that have long and I do mean potentially long term consequences. She will probably try and guilt you with "But you promised ~ or agreed to do this?" To which I would laugh and respond with, "Yea! Back when I had a job?"
Author Mountains10 Posted February 28, 2009 Author Posted February 28, 2009 As I see it your under no moral, legal, nor ethical obligation to help pay her debt that she undertook in and of own free will and without your knowledge. Alabama and Georgia have similar laws, (in that if the Georgia legislature passes a stupid @ss law, the Alabama legislature will do the exact same thing two weeks latter! ) Think about you probably agreed to paying 1/3 of the total credit card debt when freshly separated and you held out hope of an eventual reconciliation. But now you know that isn't going to happen, and what is all the more is you recently laid off in one of the worse economies since the Great Depression with no end in sight. Even if you feel morally obligated to do so, I would do so only in the privacy of the two of you and would not agree so in writing. If she goes under? Oh well that's something that she should have thought of before she walked out on you and the marriage, and before she took out all those credit cards! Now its the time to pay the piper! I wouldn't help with it were I you, and recently laid off and I'm retired military. I sure as hell wouldn't deplete any and all precious savings. Its every man and woman for themselves. Besides you said that you and she worked in the same place, who's to say that she want get caught up in the next round of layoffs, in which case she's screwed anyway. Don't make short term decisions that have long and I do mean potentially long term consequences. She will probably try and guilt you with "But you promised ~ or agreed to do this?" To which I would laugh and respond with, "Yea! Back when I had a job?" Gunny, All good points. Man it's tough, I swear. If she was just a b!tch all the time, yeah it wouldn't be hard. Problem is, we're trying to work on the house together and get it fixed up to sell. When she's around, like today when we were fixing up the house, she's constantly flirting with me, it's the oddest thing. Most people I talk to that are going thru a divorce, can't relate with me. They all tell me their stbxw's won't even talk to them, then there's my stbxw, she's poking me and flirting. She's telling me how she has no plans to date anyone for a while. Maybe I'm just being a sucker here, don't know. As for the cards, I looked back thru the history and it wasn't like she went on shopping sprees, the credit was racked up buying stuff for the house or gas when gas was really expensive, instead of from our checking account. So that's why it's an ethical/moral decison. I went ahead and paid for them this time. I guess I'm the 'too nice' guy. I can't seem to become the guy that is willing to watch is wife drown, I still care too much about her, wish I did not. She even offered to give me money should I need it, how do you screw someone like that? I just don't have the heart to do it. Am I still hopeful for reconciliation? Not really. I've pretty much put that behind me, I'm still waiting for the papers. They were supposed to be delivered 2 weeks ago and she says she can't get a hold of the attorney? Does that seem normal or is she stalling now? Everything is just so odd. Wish I had more answers. Even Google doesn't know everything .
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