explain how I can learn to accept porn and checking out other women

[Brulee]

Logically I know that I cannot control him, plus most likely I would not respect a man I was controlling. I have read many of your opinions, stating that this is just what men like to do. But I must be honest and admit that when I realize he chooses to fantasize about being with other women, it stings - mostly because I do give him my best - caring so much about him and what his needs might be and then when I know he chooses to focus on fantasizing about other women, I feel hurt. Also, when I see him check out other women, that too stings. Since fighting about it, he just does not talk about it with me, but he sure got angry when I first brought it up, telling me that I should not tell him what to look at. I tried to explain that it hurts me. The ironic thing is that I partially agree with him - how can I respect a almost 50 year old man, if I try to tell him what to do? I am not stupid and realize that he still views porn when I am not in his company.

Are there any tools for me to use, in order to deal with this? One time, before he knew that it would upset me, he even told me when talking during foreplay, discussing fantasies, that wouldn't I like to imagine him doing two twenty years olds, one blonde, one brunette and I could watch and give him input. I cannot even tell you how sad that made me feel. He was surprised that I would get upset or hurt, over anything talked about during sex, as it was just a fantasy idea...But it made me feel that I was not attractive enough...(I am in my late forties, but honestly still receive a lot of attention from other men - most people say that they do not believe my age.)

I am not male bashing, I am honestly asking for help, in dealing with the jealousy and insecurity issues I feel when these things occur. I must be honest when I say that it makes me angry and a little less in love. I thought that if I provide him with sex, which I very much enjoy, that he would not need to look at porn. But it seems that I would want it more than he would, so there is not any underlying shortage of sex, causing hime to seek this out. I do not think that he is addicted to porn, but just enjoys it.

So, any ideas on how I can look at this, what thoughts to put in my head, other than the ones I have now? If he masturbates to these images of other women, and looks women up and down without even realizing it when an attractive women is in his view, why would I believe that if he is presented with an opportunity, that he would choose to actiually turn it down? He is more careful about being so obvious, since undergoing the wrath of my disgust one time. He has been married twice, was not going to get married again, "did not believe in the institution any longer", but did decide to get engaged when I explained that I needed that level of commitment or otherwise I would most likely need to move on, since I know that I wish to have a life time partner that I marry, and we have been dating for a couple of years now, and cohabitate. I must add, that he once told me that he had a six month long affair during his first marriage - simply because the opportunity presented itself to him with an extremely attractive woman. He explained that he felt so much guilt afterwards, that he learned from it, and would not wish to go down that path again. His wife ended up cheating on him years later and left him, and he never told her about his actions.

Is there something wrong with me to feel hurt? Can I fix or control my reactions? Can I learn to believe that fantasy does not need to become reality?

Please only respond if you have any positive ideas for me.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Hi Brulee-

If you've read through some of the other porngood-pornbad threads on this board you may recognize me as being firmly on the porngood side. Most of those threads go nowhere but round and round, and that's okay I suppose, as if nothing else it's entertaining. However, having read your words I think I have some food for thought for you.

 

I believe you are experiencing the effect of unrealistic expectations.

 

You have come to believe in the fairy-tale romance, that when two people are right for each other, they become everything for each other. That is simply not realistic. No one person can provide everything another person needs. Not you, not your man, not me, not my wife, nobody. The idea that we will be the sole focus of our lovers sexuality, and that at no point in time will another human even enter into their stream of consciousness is merely fantasy propogated by the idea that "happily ever after" actually sometimes happens.

 

Because you are hoping to achieve this status in your life, when it comes out that your man does notice other women, views sexual imagery, and has sexual fantasies that include people other than the two of you it causes you to question if you've chosen the right man. I can understand that, and I can't speak to whether you've chosen wisely or not other than to say his fantasies are completely normal and do not in any way reflect on you or the state of your relationship. In fact, I'd go so far to say that you, too, have fantasy interests though you may have had your sexuality repressed by so many years of being taught that "good girls don't" that you don't even acknowledge it. Having fantasies doesn't imply that he would make it a reality.

 

You stated yourself that he doesn't seem compulsive about it, it hasn't negatively affected your sex life (or seemingly any other aspect), so I do not see a problem. In fact, you may wish to consider going down that road with him, who knows what you guys may discover together.

 

I believe that anyone who says they don't fantasize is either lying or in denial, and your reaction to his thoughts and actions will not make them go away, it will simply mean he won't share them with you anymore. I don't see that as a good thing...

 

Remember... just about everything you've been taught about how your sexuality is "supposed to be" is wrong.

[Geishawhelk]

His looking at porn, is not the problem.

His fantasizing about other women, is not the problem.

 

His complete dismissal of your feelings and opinions, and the disrespect towards you, is the problem.

 

He could be a car mechanic and out to rallies and under cars all day, to the exclusion of everything else.

He could be a nut about motorbikes, and be out haring around on two wheels, attending meets and conventions and you'd never see him.

But it's porn.

Other fermale forms.

That's what the threat is.....

 

I used to have a BF who looked at porn, but he always made sure he did it when I wasn't around, kept all porn material out of my sight, and honoured me properly and respected my feelings when I was with him.

He always made me feel like number one in his life.

 

I only ever objected once.

That's all I had to do, at the time, and he responded immediately.

 

But even then, the porn wasn't the problem.

It's how I was worried that it would impact on our relationship, that was the problem. And he understood that.

Porn is a massive industry.

There's no getting away from it, and I don't object to it at all.

I find it's harmful when it becomes the polarised object of desire, which then in turn affects the way couples interact.

 

Plenty of couples enjoy porn together.

It turns them both on.

 

But any insecurities within the relationship will only get worse, if the couple doesn't address the issue with maturity, sensitivity and understanding.

 

There's your problem.

[pyroguy]

Brulee,

 

I think sxyNYCcpl has the right idea, albeit it's a bit slanted because he's an active swinger. Still, this issue goes both ways- see my posts in the thread regarding male sexuality.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately for sxyNCYcpl) we do think of other people. I do think we can do more to focus on our partners and not look to other people so fast. For example, I haven't been to a strip club in years. I find the idea of giving some woman my money to dance around stupid, and I can see it as somewhat disrespectful of my wife. I know, if I went, I wouldn't come home and attack her sexually. why? because I know if she came home from a male strip show and was all sexual, I would just feel like the prop.

 

So, yes, despite what NYC said, it's also natural to feel "less than" at these times. you can be attractive, but when you know your SO is watching, lusting over someone who is out of your class physically, it can make you feel a little down- and yes, sometimes I even feel that it CAN be a reflection on the SO, we just don't ant to admit in this society. Honestly, how often do you think Angelina fantasizes about other men besides Brad Pitt? maybe never? and if she does, then Brad can rest assured that it really is just variety:D. The rest of good looking guys may be desirable, but when we see the SO lusting after someone in anoter class, of course it's a reflection on us- if we looked that, they wouldn't be lusting. So, it can drive you crazy.

 

The point is, you can't go crazy with those thoughts. It will consume you. Also, you should try and compromise, and he SHOULD take your feeling into account. Perhaps you can watch some porn with him, if it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable. Afterall, the men watching have plenty to worry about too with all the well endowed porn stars.

 

LAstly, the constant looking at other women when he's with you should bother you, and you should demand his attention.

[Dexter Morgan]

I take it this is just your boyfriend and you are not married.

 

So its simple....get rid of the jackass. You don't have to put up with him looking at porn and being disrespected by him checking out women all the time in your presence.

 

Find someone more sensitive to your needs and that will show you the respect you deserve.

[fral945]

My advice: Your degree of worry should be equal to the degree of control you have. The less control you have over something, the less you worry, and vice versa. Come to accept the fact that you have little control over a man’s thoughts or actions.

 

Acknowledge that men and women are wired differently. Accept that our behaviors and actions are not simply a product of our environment and how we were raised. We are a combination of nature and nurture, and you will never be able to fully comprehend the parts that are natural to us and not to you. The same goes for men. While I many times cannot understand the logic and reasoning of the female mind, I accept that there are certain innate differences which I will never fully understand. And that's ok.

 

The reality is porn is almost NEVER a reflection on a real life wife or GF. You have to realize that even if you were a porn star in real life and did all the things they do, he will still think about and look at other woman. A man's sexual nature is insatiable.

 

The reality is the average guy who watches porn spends much more time thinking about his wife or GF than the porn stars.

[Untouchable_Fire]

One time, before he knew that it would upset me, he even told me when talking during foreplay, discussing fantasies, that wouldn't I like to imagine him doing two twenty years olds, one blonde, one brunette and I could watch and give him input. I cannot even tell you how sad that made me feel. He was surprised that I would get upset or hurt, over anything talked about during sex, as it was just a fantasy idea...But it made me feel that I was not attractive enough...(I am in my late forties, but honestly still receive a lot of attention from other men - most people say that they do not believe my age.)

 

He is a jerk. He does not have the right to be that insensitive to your feelings. He should be understanding of where your coming from.

 

If he is substituting porn for you... that is bad. If he is just using porn when you are unavailable, that is fine.

[anne1707]

I was going to quote the same piece as Untouchable Fire. Whilst I personally would not find the porn such an issue (as long as he was 'discrete' about it), I find these comments he made to you totally out of order. Even if he has sexual fantasies, which is perfectly normal, to impose these on you when surely he realises you would not be comfortable is disrespectful.

 

You need to tackle him on this and make it clear you will not tolerate such behaviour. If he does not (or even worse, chooses not) to understand or change his behaviour then get out as soon as you can. If he can't respect you then don't waste your time on him.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Even if he has sexual fantasies, which is perfectly normal, to impose these on you when surely he realises you would not be comfortable is disrespectful.

 

Are you suggesting that the nature of his sexual fantasies is problematic? Or that sharing them was inappropriate? I'd suggest a relationship where both parties feel comfortable sharing their fantasies without fear of judgment is much healthier than one in which that sort of openness is punished and condemned.

 

To me, sharing a fantasy is not "imposing" it unless it happened to include and unwelcome and undesired living out of said fantasy.

 

I don't understand why this guy is being thrown under the bus by so many people. At no point did the OP say that he was ogling people, or disrespecting her, or anything else yet some of you folks are acting like she caught him inflagrante delecto with a child. Her concerns were that he noticed attractive women (I'll grant her description didn't say he WASN'T being obnoxious about it, but that's the impression I got), was looking at porn when she wasn't around and had sexual fantasies that included people other than her and he's being villified by some of you guys. I don't think that's a appropriate response for thoughts and behaviors virtually everybody has and does at some point. Hell, I'd even go so far as to congratulate her that her relationship was so close he felt comfortable sharing, but unfortunately due to her reaction I don't think he'll be doing that again anytime soon.

[anne1707]

It's not about having fantasies - that is perfectly healthy and normal. But respect for your partner must be paramount. If they do not share that fantasy or find it distasteful then keep it to yourself.

 

As I said in my earlier post, the porn would not be an issue to me. The respect not being demonstrated is the problem.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree, I don't understand the mindset that the contents of a fantasy can rise to the level of disrespect. Unless my wife were literally fantasizing about sexual encounters with children, there is nothing she could come up with I would consider disrespectful, and even then it wouldn't be a matter of respect for me, but bigger picture considerations.

 

At the risk of being repetitive, I find a relationship where those things can be shared without fear is much healthier than ones where the attitude is don't ask, don't tell, because I don't want to hear it. Putting ones head in the sand and pretending something doesn't exist doesn't make it so.

[anne1707]

We don't disagree as much as you think. To me a man fantasising about being with 2 women is about as normal as it gets. However the OP has found it upsetting because she feels her partner does not see her as attractive or desirable compared to the young women he talks about. Her confidence is part of the issue but he is also showing a lack of consideration and undertstanding of her feelings. Everybody has different boundaries and to force someone beyond theirs is wrong.

 

I also accept that to if having to hide too much of your desires and fantasies, assuming they are within whatever could generally be considered healthy and normal, can be suffocating and just as hard. This all demonstrates the need for sexual compatibility.

[manugeorge]

I used to have a BF who looked at porn, but he always made sure he did it when I wasn't around, kept all porn material out of my sight, and honoured me properly and respected my feelings when I was with him.

He always made me feel like number one in his life.

 

I only ever objected once.

That's all I had to do, at the time, and he responded immediately

 

ding ding ding!, I don't have and I've never had an issue with men looking at porn but that's because none of the men I've been with has ever made me feel disrespected by looking at it.

 

I think this is why you have pro-porn women and anti-porn women. There is a way a man can check out other women both on and offscreen, discreetly and respectfully(slight irony I know).

 

Like anything else in life, moderation is key, don't rub it in your SO's face and don't make them feel like they are less than. Don't do it to the point that it affects your intimacy and don't leave the evidence strewn all over the house/computer for your SO to come across.

Which is not to say you should keep it a secret like it's some shameful, sinful thing either.

[anne1707]

Manugeorge

 

I don't know what you have done but you have my name attached to a quote from Geisha!

 

Though not objecting to the association

[Trialbyfire]

Brulee, have you always felt this way about every significant other? If not, I'm guessing this is what's driving your concern:

 

I must add, that he once told me that he had a six month long affair during his first marriage - simply because the opportunity presented itself to him with an extremely attractive woman. He explained that he felt so much guilt afterwards, that he learned from it, and would not wish to go down that path again. His wife ended up cheating on him years later and left him, and he never told her about his actions.

 

[Geishawhelk]

Manugeorge

 

I don't know what you have done but you have my name attached to a quote from Geisha!

 

Though not objecting to the association

 

No, but I see your point.....

 

EDIT: I would add that since then, my opinions on porn have changed, because I have very healthy levels of self-esteem.

My only issue here is the level of scorn and disrespect the OP is being shown. Like I said, it's not what he's looking at, it's his attitude.....

[clv0116]

I find a relationship where those things can be shared without fear is much healthier than ones where the attitude is don't ask, don't tell, because I don't want to hear it. Putting ones head in the sand and pretending something doesn't exist doesn't make it so.

 

I agree completely. Keeping secrets is the beginning of the end for a relationship. One of the major compatibility factors I look at is whether I can tell her EVERYTHING I've done in life without fearing she will judge me harshly. If I can't we probably have no future together.

[Dexter Morgan]

It's not about having fantasies - that is perfectly healthy and normal. But respect for your partner must be paramount. If they do not share that fantasy or find it distasteful then keep it to yourself.

 

I agree. Everyone fantasizes.

 

But some people take it to the extreme and for some stupid reason, feel the need to rub their SO's nose in it.

[Brulee]

all for your thought and opinions...

I will start my saying that inside I wanted to tell him that, I wonder how he would like it, if I asked him to observe me with two twenty year old men one blonde and one brunette and then he could offer me advice on how to best please them. Of course I did not want this to occur in the first place, but I wish he could feel what it is like to be a woman in this world, which sometimes I feel is difficult.

 

Yes it scares me that he was able to carry on a 6 month affair years ago, especially when he first told me about it, he said how she was so attractive, tall blond, short hair, long legs, and that she was such a good temptress that she really seduced him into it. It bothered me because it seems that her appearance is not a good enough reason to justify having an affair - to be completely fair, there were some female medical problems his wife was having, he would hold her at nights when she was in pain. He mentioned that he would sometimes let her win a disagreement because he felt guilty about what he was doing to her. I asked if during his second marriage he ever cheated, and he said no, that he did not want to feel the guilt he felt prior.

 

I was raised catholic, and yes, was told that masturbating was wrong when I was a child.

 

Yes, I admit, I tend to be jealous. I do not know why I have these tendencies. He does not appear to be, even when he sees men paying special attention to me. He smiles and seems to enjoy it, teases me a little about it. Maybe it is because it is so obvious that he has nothing to worry about - he definately has all the power, because I wear my heart on my sleeve and he knows I have never cheated on anybody. He knows that I do not show interest in other men.

I feel as a woman, that men sometimes give mixed messages. On one hand they say they are commited to only you, but they show that they desire other women. I say that I am commited to him and my actions definately support this claim. That is where I am confused. How can I truly believe that he loves me, if he lusts after other women (he is more respectful now that I pointed it out, I think it is just a strong reaction to attractive women) Maybe the person on this board was right, and I repress sexual feelings towards other men, since I am being a good girl. My Mother thinks porn is wrong also, so I learned this as a child from a source I truly love and respect...

Does a man who is very much in love with a woman, automatically lust for an attractive woman who he does not even know? I guess deep down I fear that he does not love me enough, or he would not be that interested in others.

I just want jealousy to go away and I want to be happy and at peace with myself.

It is so funny, often I get a lot of men flirting with me, and never before felt inferior to a younger woman, because the attention from others was never lacking even though I work with younger women. They have talked about how our male customers seek me out as much as any of them. But since he told me that fantasy thing, and since noticing him noticing others, I have doubted myself more.

 

I want to realize my fears/concerns - shouldn't I take back some of the power balance in the relationship? Maybe he should be worrying about me. Of course I know that neither one of us should be worrying at all about the other.

 

At this point, I do not want to have to worry or try so hard. Should I stop being such a good girl, so dependable, so reliable, so into all of his needs, often putting him first, but instead worry more about my satisfaction, my happiness. - maybe I became a sort of door mat.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I wonder how he would like it, if I asked him to observe me with two twenty year old men one blonde and one brunette and then he could offer me advice on how to best please them.

 

How would you react if you asked him that and the answer was that it wouldn't bother him in the least? I can't speak for him, but that would be my answer.

 

I was raised catholic, and yes, was told that masturbating was wrong when I was a child.

 

Whoever taught you that was just plain wrong. The only time masturbation is "wrong" is if and when it interferes with your willingness and ability to get freaky with your lover.

 

Yes, I admit, I tend to be jealous. I do not know why I have these tendencies.

 

It's because you are concerned that any attention he pays to someone else means he doesn't want you. He either does or he doesn't. If he does, then whatever attention others attract is irrelevant, if he doesn't, then it simply doesn't matter.

 

He does not appear to be, even when he sees men paying special attention to me. He smiles and seems to enjoy it, teases me a little about it. Maybe it is because it is so obvious that he has nothing to worry about - he definately has all the power, because I wear my heart on my sleeve and he knows I have never cheated on anybody. He knows that I do not show interest in other men.

 

Whatever attention you pay, or don't pay, to other men is not the point. If he loves you, he trusts that you are his regardless, if he doesn't then it doesn't matter. As another poster pointed out I am an active swinger. In case you don't know what that is, it means that both myself and my wife routinely have sex with people other than each other. It does not bother me in the least that she does so. Why? Because I know that when the party is over she's going home with me, no matter what pleasure she may have experienced with someone else. And that's the only thing that matters.

 

On one hand they say they are commited to only you, but they show that they desire other women.

 

To expect to be the only object of desire is completely and totally unrealistic.

 

Maybe the person on this board was right, and I repress sexual feelings towards other men, since I am being a good girl.

 

The idea that "good girls don't" is complete bovine excrement. Good girls do, and they enjoy every minute of it. You've been taught a bunch of bunk.

 

My Mother thinks porn is wrong also, so I learned this as a child from a source I truly love and respect...

 

That you love and respect your mother is reasonable and understandable. However, her opinion of porn is old school, and not justified. It simply isn't a problem, in and of itself. Unless it is being used in LIEU of, instead of in addition to, a normal, healthy sex life, it doesn't matter.

 

 

Does a man who is very much in love with a woman, automatically lust for an attractive woman who he does not even know?

 

Yes. And so do women who accept their own sexuality, instead of agreeing to whatever they've been taught.

 

I guess deep down I fear that he does not love me enough, or he would not be that interested in others.

 

Why? We're all interested in variety, whether we are willing to admit it or not.

 

Should I stop being such a good girl, so dependable, so reliable, so into all of his needs, often putting him first, but instead worry more about my satisfaction, my happiness. - maybe I became a sort of door mat.

 

No need to be a doormat. But no need to continue being what you've been taught is a "good girl" either. In fact, that's counterproductive.

[Brulee]

Thank you for taking the time to offer your thoughts - that is kind.

The most important thing I am getting out of this, is to just stop being so afraid that I will lose him, because as you pointed out, if he loves me, these others will not be able to take him away and if they do, I am actually better off.

[sxyNYCcpl]

If you love someone, set them free. If they come back to you, they're yours forever. If they don't, they never were.

 

Yes, you are starting to understand. I wish you luck and happiness.

[Brulee]

I have is that for some reason, if I am with him and he notices or intereacts with an attractive woman, if friends/family notice it, I almost feel embarressed or some type of shame - like I am somehow failing...I guess that is called having false pride? I want to reprogram myself, regardless of any man I would be with. I want to be at peace with myself, because it is not fun living with these issues any longer.

[Trialbyfire]

While much of it has to do with internal thought patterns, as in trusting your instincts, the balance also has to do with external stimuli and the choices you make for partners.

 

If you review your historical patterns about when you feel jealousy/territorialism, have you been right about the man?

 

The reason I ask is that in the past, I've felt this way about two men. One was my ex-H, who cheated on me, the other someone who wasn't all in and realistically speaking, remained on the prowl, inconsistent with me. Beyond these two, no one else triggered those reactions from me, albeit nothing to do with porn.

[sxyNYCcpl]

if I am with him and he notices or intereacts with an attractive woman, if friends/family notice it, I almost feel embarressed or some type of shame - like I am somehow failing.

 

Define "notices or interacts". If his tongue literally falls out of his mouth and he stops min-sentence to drool and stare, well that's just obnoxious. But merely "noticing" an attractive woman? The idea that he, or anybody else, wouldn't is simply preposterous. No disrespect intended, but your lover noticing people should not, unless it is indeed obnoxious, cause you embarrassment as it's a normal, universal occurrence.