When does the obsession end?

[Sparta8]

It has been more than 10 months since I learned of my wife's affairs.

 

Until she told me, I thought it inconceivable that such a thing could happen, unless her jealousy triggered it. She comes from a family where rampant jealousy was a big issue, and over the years she has shown jealousy for no reality-based reason. I have never been unfaithful in the 24 plus years we have been married. I am good looking, but not a flirt. I have never considered cheating on her - it is just not in my DNA I guess. She is beautiful, very intelligent, and friendly.

 

I came home from work one night and she said she was unhappy in the marriage. The week before, the morning she left on an out of town business trip, she had been very angry at me. She told she had met someone on the trip and had been exchanging emails with him for the last several nights. She said she thought I was not happy being married to her, either. I responded that until a moment ago, I had been very happy.

 

She left the house and spent the next three nights at a friend's house. It was over 36 hours before she let me know where she was, despite many messages I left on her cell phone.

 

After she left the house, I read the emails, for hours and hours. The worst experience I have ever been through. I printed them and have read them many times since. It was clear from the emails that they had only kissed so far, but there were plans being made to meet in many locations, one of them a remote romantic place special to my wife and I. The first liaison was to take place within two weeks. They had had phone and internet sex, until very late at night, several times that week. She was telling him she was ready to give him "all she had to give". I noticed he not once told her that he loved her, or that he was ready to leave his wife for her.

 

Luckily, or unluckily, he lives thousands of miles away, so I have not paid him a visit.

 

Two days after she left she called me and told there had been another affair about 17 years before. That one had gone physical. The next few days my wife was in a manic condition, and I feared for her emotional and mental health (as well as mine). The "drug" of "being in love" with an affair partner is powerful and has bizarre affects.

 

I have never been through that kind of pain before. It really is inconceivable how bad it is until it happens.

 

I contacted the OM's wife 4 days after DDay. She told me her husband had had many affairs before with lonely, unhappy professional women he met on trips, and agreed to let my wife know that. That slowed my wife's affair down, and prevented the liaisons from taking place. My wife came home that night. The other OM's wife saved my marriage, and maybe my life, as suicide was an option I considered more than once in the early days.

 

I read 12 books about affairs, and read this blog nearly end to end. I have never written a journal of any type before, but have now written nearly plus pages about this affair and the one 17 months ago.

 

For weeks there were lies, gifts sent after DDay, the typical affair behaviour I have read about here and in the books I have read. I thought it was over around late May, but just 3 days ago saw her cell phone bills and it looks like it was around mid June.

 

We have both struggled to overcome this, and our marriage is much stronger than it has ever been. I am paying attention now, and she now realizes the depth of my love for her, and she finally realizes and understands that I have never had an affair.

 

Having seen the emails and the cell phone bills, and having gotten some more details from her, I think I have a fairly complete picture of the lastest affair, and I believe her when she says it is over. I guess I believe her 99 % when she says it will never happen again. She is a professional (as am I), and she travels a lot for work. I go when I can, but not always. The travel, and the fact that there were always men there who shared her work interests, was a large factor in both affairs.

 

I still spend up to 3 hours a day and sometimes more thinking about what happened, and searching for details, obsessing about them. My pain has lessened considerably, and I feel our marriage is now safe, but I wonder why this obsession continues.

 

3 nights ago when I confronted her with what I had learned about the latest affair not ending in May but in mid June (did it really matter?) I learned a little more about the old affair, some of which I wish I did not know. At the beginning she had told me they had been together 4 times, and told me what cities they met in. Later she said they had sex only two of the times. Later still she said they had sex only once. 3 nights ago she told me sex once, but that a 2nd time they were together he had no clothes on, and she had her top off. I guess this is some of the detail I had been obsessing to know, but now (I think) I wish I did not know it. The images of that affair are now much stronger. I still obsess about the order of the meetings, and exactly when they happened. What was I doing during that time period. I am still not sure if it was 1989, 1990 or 1991, but I think 1990 to 1991, for 5 months. I fixate on which 5 months, as if it really matters. I am even thinking about writing a private short story for myself about what happened back then, filling in blanks with my imagination.

 

When does the obsession to know details end? And when does the obsession end to do something, anything, to the Other Men? My anger towards the Other Men, particularly the latest one, is still immense, though fading somewhat.

 

We have not had any counseling, and neither of us wish to do so.

 

Sorry for the length of this. I have only talked to one person besides my wife about what happened, and I guess I had the need to tell someone else, and perhaps get some useful advice or insight.

[Owl]

Part of the reason that you're still obsessing is because she's still inconsistent in her responses to your questions.

 

She's STILL witholding information, still lying about what happened. So you're still constantly looking for those holes you know exist and try to fill them.

 

And...you're still obsessing because she's still in a position where she could continue the affair, or resume a new one...and you'd be none the wiser.

 

Her job, her professional lifestyle...haven't changed to allow her to rebuild your trust in her.

 

You have no reason to believe what she's telling you anymore...and she's not taken all the actions she needs to that would help you get to that point.

 

Once you're convinced that you know the truth, or enough of it to truly make a difference...once you're convinced that her lifestyle won't let her do it again...once you're convinced she's truly recommitted enough to the marriage to start telling the full truth and take drastic measures to rebuild your relationship....THEN you'll start to find yourself obsessing less and less.

 

But you ain't there yet, my friend.

 

SHE still has a ton of work to do to get you there.

[2sure]

Whew. Its tough isnt it?

 

I dont have much time left today, but wanted to point you to another thread recently started in which myself and several other posters discuss just this. Please look at my response to the poster there. It might help.

 

I will watch for your posts.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t181119/

[Athena]

Hi Sparta,

Yikes, how painful for you, to believe your marriage was great, then be hit with all that. Anyway, I do believe its normal to be obsessing so much. I think that obsessing over details allows you some form of Control, since that was taken out of your hands by your wife's actions. You seek to gain some power back by trying to own the truth. But she has the truth, and has had it for so long, and furthermore she is in control of whether or not she dispenses it/or parts with all of it or some of it to you, and when she does this, and how.

 

No surprise that this whole power issue is gnawing away at your brain. Not only that, but this new knowledge of two affairs in your otherwise believed- to- be happy marriage, rewrites your marital history, and you are keen to find out the new facts, dates, etc that is part of YOUR history!

 

I have been through D-days like you have, and I have been totally obsessed, like you, on all the details of the affair, where /who /when /how /how much/ why.... sometimes there are straight-forward answers and sometimes there are not, sometimes they simply don't want to tell you the truth, and sometimes they have forgotten the details. You are hungry for the Truth and your quest to get down to the bottom of it is all consuming.

 

How long does this last? I think it lasts longer the more you have to dig around for the details, and it certainly hurts longer the more your spouse lies to you.... every time their story changes, causes you more pain and to reflexively dig in more tenaciously but feel powerless.

 

You mentioned your wife setting up a sex tryst at a romantic place that was special to both of you -- my H took some weekend affair colleague to the very same top hotel in Luxembourg for his sexcapades just a few months after he and I celebrated a wedding anniversary in that very same place!

Yes it hurt. It also made me realize that he was capable of defiling anything special in our marriage to give it away to some one night stand (like the same bed he and I slept in).

 

Another thing I think, is the constant mulling over, remembering, recalling, and writing is to get it into your brain -- to remind you Never To Forget... so that you cannot ever again be caught off guard and hurt like this again.

[Athena]

 

Once you're convinced that you know the truth, or enough of it to truly make a difference...once you're convinced that her lifestyle won't let her do it again...once you're convinced she's truly recommitted enough to the marriage to start telling the full truth and take drastic measures to rebuild your relationship....THEN you'll start to find yourself obsessing less and less.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this!

[Sparta8]

Owl, my wife has actually been very forthcoming with the truth, except during the first two months when she was still in the affair, to one degree or other. I waited until January before I asked most of my questions. Several reasons I guess, the main one being that was when I was at last ready to know more. So far, only two major rounds of questioning, last month and 3 nights ago, and I think she was very open both times. Granted, she said this week she could not remember the late night 74 minute call in mid June, saying that time period was a blur. And, the Clintonesque thinking she seems to be going throughin trying to define when she had had "sex" is disturbing. But I believe she is telling me the truth now, as best she can, while holding back the gory details, which I have not really asked for yet, and know I should probably not ask. These questioning sessions are very hard for both of us, and there will be more, but with less to be "discovered" each time. As to the traveling - I do not want her to have to stop that....yet.

 

2sure, it was actually that first post on that thread that prompted me to start this one. I had not posted before, and thought I would get my story out before responding to someone else's. The responses I have seen on that are interesting and helpful.

 

Athena, great insight. I agree that regaining control/power may have much to do with it, at the beginning. Does it now? Maybe. I will have to think about that. And you hit the nail on the head regarding the need to know my "new" marital history. In all the books I have read, I don't remember seeing that idea, or at least not so clearly stated.

"Never to Forget" - I actually started journaling 3 weeks into the ordeal, in order to keep my facts and thoughts straight about what was happening during that time. Too much was at stake to forget things. My journal helped me expose some lies in those early days, and was and has been cathartic. The trick may be to know how much journaling and obsessing is too much.

I think and hope she is done lying to me, and that the story will not change more, or if it does, only subtly because of added detail. Part of my quandary now is knowing what else to ask.... and what not to ask.

Sorry to hear of your Luxembourg ordeal. Had my wife's last affair gone physical, I am sure the pain and damage would have trebled, and I doubt I or we could have overcome it. It seems a little easier to deal with something that happened 17 years ago, although unfortunately learning more details seems to overcome the time barrier.

3 days ago I discovered my wife had texted the latest OM 5 times on our anniversary while she was on a trip (she did have to go), while I sat at home crying over the beautifully written sentiments on the anniversary cards she had given to me. That was part of what we "discussed" three nights ago.

 

I believe I am "convinced she is truly committed enough to the marriage to start telling the full truth and (she has) taken drastic measures to rebuild our relationship".................but maybe I am not and that is why I obsess.

[Athena]

 

..............but maybe I am not and that is why I obsess.

 

Obsessing gives you Something To Do, positive or not, at least you don't feel so helpless anymore...

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your direct response.

[NewSunrise]

You are trying to convince yourself that your wife is being truthful. YOu want desperately to believe her for the right reasons---to save your marriage and because you love her. So you obsess until you are convinced. Truth is, you're not convinced and you don't trust she's telling the truth. Quite a natural response. There are too many uncertainties and inconsistencies in her stories which begs the question, "what's next?" What excuse she'll come up next?

 

The "truth" is in her actions not her words. Your wife's action/effort to help in the recovery process may also be superficially sufficient just to pacify you. Understand cheaters have become experts at---cheating and lying. She successfully hid her affairs from you for 24 years.

 

At some point, you'll have to decide if your obsession will either hinder or help in your recovery "independent" of your marriage/relationship. I say independent because YOU have to decide if your obsession will destroy or help you. If you allow your obssession to destroy you, you will not be in any position to help recover your marriage. In the end, your marriage will either survive or it won't. Your wife will either commit to the marriage or she won't and continue her cheating ways on the road.

 

Bottom line: You have no control over your wife's behavior and answers.

Bottom line: You have control over your thoughts.

 

Thoughts can be the most evil thing to the human mind and body. It has no concept of time and reality. So what you may obssess over and over are just "thoughts". They act like "fill in the blanks" for all the doubts that exist in your mind that are not trutfful or real. But they feel just as real as a pinch on your skin. The task to separate the two is tough that have led many people to self-destruction while others emerged much better and stronger individuals. To become the latter, you have to go right through it, not around it.

 

Now may be the time for both of you to consider some counseling.

 

Good luck.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Until she told me, I thought it inconceivable that such a thing could happen, unless her jealousy triggered it. She comes from a family where rampant jealousy was a big issue, and over the years she has shown jealousy for no reality-based reason. I have never been unfaithful in the 24 plus years we have been married. I am good looking, but not a flirt. I have never considered cheating on her - it is just not in my DNA I guess. She is beautiful, very intelligent, and friendly.

 

Sparta, Why is she cheating on you?

 

I don't see that you have a solid answer to that yet.

[silktricks]

10 months is still early times - it only feels like forever...

 

Obsessing will stop when it can. If you try to force it to stop you'll probably end up making it worse. I did a kind of reverse on myself, and forced myself to think about it until finally my brain simply refused to obsess any longer - I think it's something along the line of forcing a drunk to drink until they're so sick they don't want the stuff anymore.... :sick: It worked for me, but I can't say that I recommend that course for anyone - it was a pretty disgusting way to exist for awhile.

 

Anyway, though on an intellectual level you know that the details don't matter, you aren't functioning at that level right now. You want to believe her (I assume) so you ask questions, hoping against hope that the answers stay consistent. I wish you the best.

[Sparta8]

Athena Obsessing is something to do in order to not feel helpless? I don't feel helpless in rebuilding the marriage - it is stronger now than it has ever been. I think you may have been closer with the concept of "relearning my 'new' marital history".

 

NewSunrise There have not been inconsistencies for maybe 8 months. What I was promised in late May (that she would stop having even a platonic relationship with OM) and what I thought by the end of May (that it was over) turned out not to be true from what I saw recently (it went on until mid June). But after that, no inconsistencies that I remember. However, my real questioning of her did not begin until January. The inconsistencies are generally all between what I was being told in April/May, and what I learned myself since then or asked in January and lately.

17 years of hiding the first one, not 24 years. Still a long time.

Her actions in helping me overcome this have been very strong and very consistent (since mid June).

 

Untouchable Fire Why is she cheating on me? I prefer to phrase that as why did she cheat on me these 2 times. That question used to be central to my obsession with knowing more, but now I worry more about what happened than why. All my reading I think gives me more of a sens of "why" than she has. She looks back at the last affair with the sense that she was crazy, she does not know what came over her.

 

Several possible answers to why. Likely some combination of the following, in order of likelyhood and importance (I think):

 

1. To resolve insecurities and self doubts with the affirmation of having someone not only very interested in her, but maybe falling in love with her. I read recently somewhere: "There is little that feels more affirming and revitalizing than having someone fall in love with you. (It follows, then, that there's little that feels less affirming than being cheated on.)"

 

2. Jealousy. She thought I had had affairs. I had lied to her about other things, and she lost trust over time. She figured if I lied about other thinkgs, I must also be lying when I told her I had never had an affair.

 

3. Her emotional needs were not filled. She thought the OM were more interested in her than I was.

 

4. She was not satisfied with her life during the two time periods.

 

5. The excitement. From what I gather from her emails and what I read, the excitement must be mind-blowing.

 

6. She felt less need than me to stick to her marital vows.

 

7. She was looking for a better mate. Maybe, at least subconsiously. This one nags me.

 

I believe she is now extremely unlikely to ever have another affair, for the following reasons: 1. She knows now how much I love her. Fighting for her, and staying with her after all of this, gave her an understanding that my love for her is much greater and deeper than she thought. 2. She knows now I have not ever had an affair. This makes her more secure. 3. She knows now how excrutiating an affair is, not only to the betrayed spouse but to the offending spouse.

 

silktricks 10 months is early times? Ouch.

I agree the details don't matter on an intellectual level, that the need for them comes from someplace deeper.

One "benefit" of all of this happening to the betrayed spouse, I think, is finding out more about oneself. About the range and intensity of emotions one is capable of. Fascinating stuff, but much more comfortable reading about it than experiencing it! "That which does not kill you makes you stronger - Nietzche" has come to mind a lot in the last 10 months.

It does feel to me that obsessing will stop when it can. I just wonder when. And why it continues.

 

Thanks to all for the thoughtful answers.

[Dexter Morgan]

Sparta my man. This is the kind of scar cheaters leave you with. I can't say that your feelings of desperation won't subside some, but you will, no matter how much you think you can, EVER get over what she did to you completely.

 

Are you willing to live a life like that? Are you willing to settle for a life where things will never be right with you deep down?

 

Only way I was able to get rid of the pain was to get rid of the source of that pain. do I think about what my x-wife did to me to this day? Sure...once in a blue moon. But does it bother me? Nope, because now she is some other poor saps problem.

 

If you decide to stay, you are going to have to get in counseling and the best you can hope for is to learn to live with the pain when it comes around.

 

or you can get rid of the source.

 

I think you can learn to live with it...question is, do you want to just live with it?

[Owl]

I'll post the other side of Dexter's Dark Coin...

 

You CAN get over it. I have. Not everyone ends up unhealed, not every marriage is completely and totally devestated to a point where it becomes a living hell...I know...because MY marriage recovered very well.

 

Dexter's didn't. Dexter didn't see anyway that HE could have moved on, have gotten past the damage done by his wife's affair. That's ok...but it's NOT how everyone ends up.

 

Which will you be?

 

That depends.

 

It depends on a LOT of things.

 

It depends on how hard BOTH you and your wife work to rebuild/repair the damage done.

 

It depends on the effectiveness of the counselor you choose, it depends on the "plan" he uses to help your marriage recover...to help you EACH recover individually as well.

 

It depends on what your marriage was like BEFORE the affair ever came along...what kind of "foundation relationship" you two shared before the affair.

 

It depends on your own personal ability to recover, to deal with things. It depends on your mental and emotional ability to heal, to learn, to cope.

 

It depends on your wife's abilities to do the same...and her willingness to truly own what she's done, and to assist YOU in recovering from her actions.

 

And yes...10 months after d-day is still early on. I was still obsessing daily then as well. Typically, it takes 2-5 years for a marriage to recover from infidelity, assuming both parties do follow the normal "script" of these things.

 

You've been dealt one of the most traumatic emotional blows that any can be...it's going to take a lot of time, and a lot of work, for you to heal from this. But it CAN be done.

 

If you want some additional advice...pick up a copy of "Surviving an Affair".

 

Hope this helps.

[Dexter Morgan]

I'll post the other side of Dexter's Dark Coin...

 

You CAN get over it. I have. Not everyone ends up unhealed, not every marriage is completely and totally devestated to a point where it becomes a living hell...I know...because MY marriage recovered very well.

 

Dexter's didn't. Dexter didn't see anyway that HE could have moved on, have gotten past the damage done by his wife's affair. That's ok...but it's NOT how everyone ends up.

 

I think it comes down to how much unreasonable amounts of pride one has to swallow and a certain level of desperation one may feel when faced with the possibility that a marriage might be over.

 

I think alot of people want to stay in the marriage for the wrong reasons.

 

Yes, some can survive(if you can call it surviving), and some don't.

 

Everyone always tells a BS that things can recover and that counseling can do wonders...yadda yadda. and thats fine.

 

i provide the alternative view. And yes, its what I needed to do and am giving a BS that alternative.

[65tr6]

Glad to hear you say that your marriage is much stronger now. I see some similarities between how you handled the aftermath and the way I am doing it. Can learn from each other I hope.

 

When does the obsession to know details end? And when does the obsession end to do something, anything, to the Other Men? My anger towards the Other Men, particularly the latest one, is still immense, though fading somewhat..

 

Sparta, mine is still in early stages compared to yours...just some comments..I still obsess but nothing like what it was the first two months.

 

I spent several hours per week just talking to my wife about the affair. I read a lot about not wanting details that does not help the healing process...In my case, I just had to know. My wife told me everything. Every little detail I asked for. I brokedown several times (never cried in my life since i was 12 ?). My wife saw the hurt she caused me. Those talks were very intense and it would have been very difficult for my wife to lie even if she wanted to. I would have seen right through her. Make sense ?

 

And the obsession took a nice dive...I still have triggers but knowing that she is in complete NC and has been very honest since the dday went a long way in managing those triggers.

 

 

Do you think you will be less obsessed if your wife gave you all the missing details ? (such as the affair ending in June and not in May - in this case honestly she may have just forgotten the actual dates when it ended....so be mindful of that)

 

or you still have nagging suspicion that there is something else she is not telling you about ?

 

We have not had any counseling, and neither of us wish to do so.

 

Sorry for the length of this. I have only talked to one person besides my wife about what happened, and I guess I had the need to tell someone else, and perhaps get some useful advice or insight.

Make that two of us....No C here and also keeping this to pretty much to myself on what happened. I am not sure if that is a good idea. You have done it for 10 months, that is remarkable. I dont know if I can wait that long.

 

Some questions....

 

If your wife truely remorseful of what she has done ? How much she hurt you ? What has she done to make you think your marriage is stronger than ever before ?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Your story brings to mind Joseph's Letter. Read it and see if that rings some bells for you.

 

As for the obsession, well that unfortunately is a symptom of what I've seen called 'emotional herpes'. Just like herpes, that obsession and thoughts about the infidelity will come and go, flare up horribly sometimes and at other times you may even find you can do days, weeks without thinking about it. But, it is never gone completely. You can learn to cope with it, avoid triggers and find yourself going longer and longer between 'outbreaks' though.

 

It takes time to get there though. Usually 18 months or so. Sometimes longer. It depends on the person.

[Sparta8]

Dexter How long ago did your wife cheat on you, how long was her affair, and did you make any attempt to overcome it and stay together with her? And thanks for the alternative view.

 

Owl Thanks for the input. I have already read "Surviving an Affair, along with many other books. It has been months, so maybe I will look at some of them again soon.

 

65tr6 Several hours a week? A lot more than I have done. But then again I had a ton of questions answered, at least about the last affair, just by reading the emails. I think I may understand that one better than my wife does.

My obsession diminished a lot after the long session with her in January. It slowly increased, then jumped when I saw the June vs May discrepancy. I found out this weekend she had the OM on the phone when I got home on DDAy, which added another spike. What a FU to think now about him being on the phone the first few minutes I came in the door. I can't remember if I ever asked if it was him the first few days. Those days are a blur.

I see now it will take several more sessions or Q and A. I still don't want to go with a counselor. Early on, she recommended a counselor, now neither of us wants one. She would do it if I asked.

Yes, my wife is truly remorseful for what she did and the pain it caused, to the point of considering suicide. She seems to be much more sorry for the latest one than the first.

What has she done to make me think the marriage is stronger than ever before? Apologized a thousand times. Verbally and non verbally. We are much closer now.

Do I have a nagging suspicion that there is something else she is not telling me? Yes. I know there are many things, because I don't have all the details (because I have not asked for them all yet). Do I think it is something big, or something that will make a difference to me in the long run? No. And that is why I question the length and intensity of the obsession.

[Sparta8]

Lucrezia, I did read Joseph's letter. I think I may have given a copy to my wife before starting in on the January session. If she has trouble answering next time, I will keep a copy handy, just in case. Yes, I am filling in pieces of the puzzle.

[65tr6]

Do I have a nagging suspicion that there is something else she is not telling me? Yes. I know there are many things, because I don't have all the details (because I have not asked for them all yet). Do I think it is something big, or something that will make a difference to me in the long run? No. And that is why I question the length and intensity of the obsession.

Sparta, read your own answers to both these questions. I suggest, get all your other questions answered asap. I believe that will help a long way in easing your pain of obsession. It is working for me. You are just like me. Want to know all the details. About your wife being on the phone with OM on the d-day...again. That is d-day. I would not obsess over that part.

 

For most part, I think you are doing very good.

[jj33]

Sparta I have never been in your position but I would not say 10 months is too long to be concerned. We all wish that the pain and hurt of betrayal of a long relationship would disappear quickly that trust would magically be rebuilt and that things could go back to the way they were with hardly a beat skipped.

 

But that is not how it is. You feel your marriage is stronger than it was, you feel you are making strides which is far more than many people can say 10 months after D day.

 

It may take time to get over the "obsession" as you call it. But I wouldnt be hard on yourself. I wouldnt even call it an obsession. It seems perfectly natural that even if she came clean with all the facts right away it would still take time for the dust to settle.

 

Take good care.

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter How long ago did your wife cheat on you

 

Oh, it was little quickies throughout the marriage, but I didn't find out about them until the "affair" was found out just not quite 2 months before I filed for divorce.

 

 

and did you make any attempt to overcome it and stay together with her?

 

yes, I did. But I realized that I'd never look at her the same again and she was now a cheater to me. I realized I wanted to stay for the wrong reasons...money, kids. If I were to have stayed with her, I'd be living in hell in my own house.

 

So yes, I tried, but realized there was no way I'd ever trust her again, would always be suspicious of her, and I didn't want a life of having to babysit someone and try to keep them from straying.