She moved out, Is it over???????

[wifesgone]

Why all the powerplays? Why no compromising? Why no understanding? If you loved her and wanted it to work out, why can't it be on her terms? You're building resentment and negative reinforcement. That's just going to bite you later on.

 

You can set ultimatums and they can work, but don't you think that those attempts at control because you feel so out of control, are counterproductive long term?

 

Why would you not be understanding towards a separation? Especially if no one else is involved?

 

 

I just cannot see anything good coming out of her not even living in the same house as me. Why does it have to be on just her terms? I agree I am becoming resentful that is why I am going to back off for a couple of weeks.

I am going to talk to an attorney though. I don't want to make a mistake that can come back to bite me on the azz if we do get a divorce.

The only ultimatum I set was to give me my keys back and she wouldn't. I think she saw that I was serious and it scared her the way she ran to me. I don't know this for a fact but I know her pretty well.

It all seems so permanent her signing a lease and buying furniture, seems as though she is starting her a new life. If she wanted to go stay somewhere else for a month that is one thing but she is already talking a minimum of 3 or 4 months. My kids are involved and my little girl hasn't quit crying for week.

[carhill]

$155 a session

 

Sorry I couldn't pass up a joke.

LOL, yeah, ours was 165 a session and insurance knocked it down to 99. I paid it gladly. My lawyer is cheap at 225 an hour but those hours sure add up.

 

MC can do more than clarify and attempt to repair a M. It can also smooth the way for a more amicable D. Less lawyer fees

[TrustInYourself]

I just cannot see anything good coming out of her not even living in the same house as me. Why does it have to be on just her terms? I agree I am becoming resentful that is why I am going to back off for a couple of weeks.

I am going to talk to an attorney though. I don't want to make a mistake that can come back to bite me on the azz if we do get a divorce.

The only ultimatum I set was to give me my keys back and she wouldn't. I think she saw that I was serious and it scared her the way she ran to me. I don't know this for a fact but I know her pretty well.

It all seems so permanent her signing a lease and buying furniture, seems as though she is starting her a new life. If she wanted to go stay somewhere else for a month that is one thing but she is already talking a minimum of 3 or 4 months. My kids are involved and my little girl hasn't quit crying for week.

 

I know, it's a rough situation. What is her answer to your questions? What do you see she has to gain from this separation? What does she hope to gain? Why has it come to this? What information has she provided for her justification for this action? What is your part? How have you contributed to this stage of your marriage?

 

Answer those on your own and get back to me. You are the man on the ground and your instincts are probably correct, but you also need to see the situation from outside yourself. I think it's a good sign that you can see how you are approaching this. Taking a step back is good, if that's what you need to keep your cool and keep things objective. Best wishes.

[TrustInYourself]

I also want to provide some feedback on your question on what good can come from a separation.

 

Space and time allows the heart to grow fonder.

 

I was complacent and took my wife for granted. I took her feelings for granted. It took her leaving for me to understand myself and what I was doing to our marriage through my inaction/complacency.

 

Your marriage is different of course. You both are different. But human nature makes us all very much alike.

 

I came out of my situation stronger, better prepared, and more loving and understanding. I know that I felt love renewed with her and I also learned from the situation. I turned the crisis upside down. Most people, who get served a separation, get filled with bitterness and a desire to force their spouse to see things their way. I practiced mental judo. I agreed with her and supported her decision.

 

This allowed her to spend less time defending her position and seeing things from my perspective. I became part of her support structure. So, things can work out. Our marriage is better off because of the separation and I feel like we've really fireproofed our love and commitment.

 

Behavior based results and solutions worked really well for us. I read some books and I suggest you to read some books on making things work and understanding marriage dynamics. Understanding marriage and communication is not something you just know. I found that out the hard way. There is no class that you can take. Being married is something we have to work at daily. Some people just choose to give up, especially if they feel like they've been doing all the heavy lifting. It's all perspective, and half the battle is seeing their perspective. Being on their side.

 

This is all based on late nights alone pondering the loss of my marriage and reading and studying and thinking about all the facets of separation and my marriage.

 

Anyways, hope that provides you with some food for thought.

[wifesgone]

I know, it's a rough situation. What is her answer to your questions? What do you see she has to gain from this separation? What does she hope to gain? Why has it come to this? What information has she provided for her justification for this action? What is your part? How have you contributed to this stage of your marriage?

 

Answer those on your own and get back to me. You are the man on the ground and your instincts are probably correct, but you also need to see the situation from outside yourself. I think it's a good sign that you can see how you are approaching this. Taking a step back is good, if that's what you need to keep your cool and keep things objective. Best wishes.

 

She said it is how she is going to handle it no matter what I say. "If you don't like it file for divorce" her words. I honestly don't know what she has to gain. She said we can't work out problems if we are in the same house. I am not really sure why it came to this. We have really never faught much at all. Nothing other than money fights. I do all the cooking , day to day cleaning (she does the dusting and vacuuming), I deal with the kids most of the time, I feel I do a great deal in our marriage, especially working long hours at times.

 

I do have a short temper and I know I do. I always have, but I very rarely even get mad at her even when we are arguing, I get mad at my kids more than her. I have over the last few days I guess over all the stress. I mean one minute she is saying its all my fault the next minute she needs to work on who she is. This is why I am so confused with all this, and why I considered maybe it is her hormones. I don't know. I used to consider myself an intelligent man, but over the last few days I am begaining to wonder.

[TrustInYourself]

She said it is how she is going to handle it no matter what I say. "If you don't like it file for divorce" her words. I honestly don't know what she has to gain. She said we can't work out problems if we are in the same house. I am not really sure why it came to this. We have really never faught much at all. Nothing other than money fights. I do all the cooking , day to day cleaning (she does the dusting and vacuuming), I deal with the kids most of the time, I feel I do a great deal in our marriage, especially working long hours at times.

 

I do have a short temper and I know I do. I always have, but I very rarely even get mad at her even when we are arguing, I get mad at my kids more than her. I have over the last few days I guess over all the stress. I mean one minute she is saying its all my fault the next minute she needs to work on who she is. This is why I am so confused with all this, and why I considered maybe it is her hormones. I don't know. I used to consider myself an intelligent man, but over the last few days I am begaining to wonder.

 

I see that numerous ways.

 

One, she needs space to "find" herself, but at what cost? This is where consequences come into play, which is what you are creating by changing the locks etc.

 

She may be in the haze or fog of not knowing what she wants or what she has. What can you do to bring her out of it though? That's a real question that you can only answer.

 

By forcing her to come to terms with her decision, you can bring her out of it, possibly. Especially if that's what she expects from you and that's the role that you have assumed that created the initial attraction point between the two of you.

 

At the same time, being such a good provider, father, husband comes at a cost of not being a lover and confidant, etc. It's a double edged sword. The more you do, the better you are, the more she doesn't respect or feel like she is a partner in your marriage. She feels detached.

 

Is she a good mother? Does she care that her children miss and need her?

[wifesgone]

I see that numerous ways.

 

One, she needs space to "find" herself, but at what cost? This is where consequences come into play, which is what you are creating by changing the locks etc.

 

She may be in the haze or fog of not knowing what she wants or what she has. What can you do to bring her out of it though? That's a real question that you can only answer.

 

By forcing her to come to terms with her decision, you can bring her out of it, possibly. Especially if that's what she expects from you and that's the role that you have assumed that created the initial attraction point between the two of you.

 

At the same time, being such a good provider, father, husband comes at a cost of not being a lover and confidant, etc. It's a double edged sword. The more you do, the better you are, the more she doesn't respect or feel like she is a partner in your marriage. She feels detached.

 

Is she a good mother? Does she care that her children miss and need her?

 

Something she has said before that has always bugged me is she would always choose her family (mom, dad, sisters) over me if it came down to it. I would never say anything like that, the way I see it is when you are married you have a new family. I know they don't like me and never have. I told her I don't care I didn't marry them I married you.

 

I think she honestly thinks that I should go along with this 100%. If its what she wants give it to her, no questions asked. I can't do that. I need answers. I am not going to sit her doing every thing I can and she won't even talk to me.

 

She does a good bit around the house:laudry, weekly thorough cleanings, cooks sometimes. Yes she loves her kids and is a good mother, but now that you mention it she has been much harder on them lately, emotionally speaking,{ ie. geting onto them for bugging her and such}. She has never been one to get onto them when they need it. She wants to let them do anything they want so she is the good parent, and let me do the punishing.

 

Yes she missed them, she didn't see them last week and this weekend like I did though, wondering why they were having to leave our house. She got them right after school yesterday and took them to the new place to show them all their new things. Bought them both new big toys, bedroom sets and promised them a trampoline. I would never use this to my advantage, but the oldest is not even my son. I took him in just like my own child at 18 months old because her piece of **** X, wouldn't take care of him

 

All of this makes me question even further whether she is planning on it being temporary or not.

[in a daze]

thank you, i KNEW there was something else in your equation.. now thats out of the the bag, you have have to ask yourself a question. ( without being a hardguy, hero) do i really love this woman and am i willing to give EVERYTHING it takes to make it work for my FAMILY. IF SO, THEN I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO, IF NOT THEN I ALSO KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT TO TO DO . i wish i was in your predicament( sp ).. DO THE RIGHT thing.

[wifesgone]

thank you, i KNEW there was something else in your equation.. now thats out of the the bag, you have have to ask yourself a question. ( without being a hardguy, hero) do i really love this woman and am i willing to give EVERYTHING it takes to make it work for my FAMILY. IF SO, THEN I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO, IF NOT THEN I ALSO KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT TO TO DO . i wish i was in your predicament( sp ).. DO THE RIGHT thing.

 

 

And In A daze, what would you consider the right thing to do?

[Chrome Barracuda]

I dont know how can she move out and yet work on a marriage? that makes no sense. She can work on itwithout moving out, buing a house and getting furniture screams divorce to me. What so he's supposed to sell his place and move in with her if they ever reconsile? is she gonna sell her new place and come back, will they get a new place. I think she's gonna slowly move away from you and date other men. IT's a given that' that situation will happen. Id rather straight up divorce a woman instead of playing around the bush with the seperation title to it.

 

I'd say move on and let her make the moves to reconsile. Go and get your finances settled, child custody handled and date other females, and wear condoms. Because once a woman leaves she may never come back, why would she? she has an ex husband she can lean on for emotional support and a new man for the rest!

[in a daze]

And In A daze, what would you consider the right thing to do?

well, my wife is acting quites similar. she is in the process of switching antidepresaants, her parents business went belly up and they are claiming bankruptcy. we had issues over the past year regarding my anger( my father lives with us and has alheimers, and is getting worse), and i was taking it out on her. un fortuneately she never said too much while it was happening and everything just built up. she admits she should have brought it to the table but didnt want to upset me more. i wish she had and she is working on expressing herself better, as i am working on controlling my anger. she got an apartment on a 3 month lease to clear her head. she isnt banging anyone else and i talk to her daily re: our daughter. i finally after 3 weeks of calling and trying to " quick fix" the problem, am giving her space, and it seems to be working. you sound likie you love your wife, so give her space and you will be amazed at the results. you put too much into your relationship to kiss it all goodbye because of semantics. let her have the space and you will know within 2- 3 weeks if things will work out. gl

[pelicanpreacher]

Something she has said before that has always bugged me is she would always choose her family (mom, dad, sisters) over me if it came down to it. I would never say anything like that, the way I see it is when you are married you have a new family. I know they don't like me and never have. I told her I don't care I didn't marry them I married you.

 

I think she honestly thinks that I should go along with this 100%. If its what she wants give it to her, no questions asked. I can't do that. I need answers. I am not going to sit her doing every thing I can and she won't even talk to me.

 

She does a good bit around the house:laudry, weekly thorough cleanings, cooks sometimes. Yes she loves her kids and is a good mother, but now that you mention it she has been much harder on them lately, emotionally speaking,{ ie. geting onto them for bugging her and such}. She has never been one to get onto them when they need it. She wants to let them do anything they want so she is the good parent, and let me do the punishing.

 

Yes she missed them, she didn't see them last week and this weekend like I did though, wondering why they were having to leave our house. She got them right after school yesterday and took them to the new place to show them all their new things. Bought them both new big toys, bedroom sets and promised them a trampoline. I would never use this to my advantage, but the oldest is not even my son. I took him in just like my own child at 18 months old because her piece of **** X, wouldn't take care of him

 

All of this makes me question even further whether she is planning on it being temporary or not.

 

There be the devil's fault in your crystal seed for it has permeated and expanded in breadth and width throughout the growth of your marriage! This contract was made upon a devil's lie which continues to bind your marriage's soul and has doomed it from the onset. Your conscience railed against this unholy precept when initially proffered but you ignored its pleas in deference to your fear of losing her and your ego's arrogance that your love and importance could change her stance to place you above her family in time. The pain of a decision earned is a lesson learned in time so harken back to your conscience and undo this unholy decision by letting your marriage go!

 

This is not to say that you can never get remarried again but if you do then start anew with a crystal unblemished by the weaknesses of fear or ego to know and enjoy a marriage fit for GOD's blessing to sustain the tests of time!

[wifesgone]

well, my wife is acting quites similar. she is in the process of switching antidepresaants, her parents business went belly up and they are claiming bankruptcy. we had issues over the past year regarding my anger( my father lives with us and has alheimers, and is getting worse), and i was taking it out on her. un fortuneately she never said too much while it was happening and everything just built up. she admits she should have brought it to the table but didnt want to upset me more. i wish she had and she is working on expressing herself better, as i am working on controlling my anger. she got an apartment on a 3 month lease to clear her head. she isnt banging anyone else and i talk to her daily re: our daughter. i finally after 3 weeks of calling and trying to " quick fix" the problem, am giving her space, and it seems to be working. you sound likie you love your wife, so give her space and you will be amazed at the results. you put too much into your relationship to kiss it all goodbye because of semantics. let her have the space and you will know within 2- 3 weeks if things will work out. gl

 

 

I told her yesterday "you have your space, I won't call you, come see you or make contact with you. If you want to talk you can call me, but I will not tolerate a heated argument and will hang up if you get hostile. You made the decision to leave not me." I wrote that down before I called her so I would remember exactly what I wanted to say, and not go off on some stupid tangent to nowhere. I did tell her however to have my kids call everynight before they go to bed and everymorning on the way to school. I think I am going to get them a cell phone so I don't have to call her phone. IT'll have been 2 weeks on Sunday. I am not filling for divorce as of yet. I am going to give it about a month, but I won't wait forever for her to work out her problems, while living in another house.

[wifesgone]

There be the devil's fault in your crystal seed for it has permeated and expanded in breadth and width throughout the growth of your marriage! This contract was made upon a devil's lie which continues to bind your marriage's soul and has doomed it from the onset. Your conscience railed against this unholy precept when initially proffered but you ignored its pleas in deference to your fear of losing her and your ego's arrogance that your love and importance could change her stance to place you above her family in time. The pain of a decision earned is a lesson learned in time so harken back to your conscience and undo this unholy decision by letting your marriage go!

 

This is not to say that you can never get remarried again but if you do then start anew with a crystal unblemished by the weaknesses of fear or ego to know and enjoy a marriage fit for GOD's blessing to sustain the tests of time!

 

 

Pelican you are a wise bird. I have been praying daily that he give me the strength to make the right decision. I feel I know what I need to do but there is always that hope. But each day of her not being there that hope gets dimmer and seems further out of reach.

Thank YOu.

[wifesgone]

Update.

Finally maybe we are getting somewhere. She finally opened up to me. She said she is not happy with herself. She got pregnant out of high school and feels she has never accomplished anything in her life. Also she went off on my on what I thought was a wild tangent but before she got through I really started thinking.

When we met I took her in and was babying her. I bought her everything she wanted didn't matter what it was. We spent all my savings $75k in year. We didn't even know how to pay the light bill. Then she got pregnant and we got married. I swore I would never go broke again. Well I haven't gone broke and have more now than ever, but I didn't realize I was putting her second to money. She said she told me but I never believed I guess. Well I thought last night ALL NIGHT. No sleep at all. I realized hey she is right. We have money but no happiness. I work 80-90 hours a week and don't apply any of my time to her needs. I have held resentment from our past for all of this. Blaming it all on her but I realized it was me also, the whole time. She didn't even have access to my money. I would leave for work and leave money for her everyday to go shopping, bought her new cars, house, clothes, and then when she got pregnant I just stopped all together. Now don't get me wrong I do not think all of this is my fault. She still has her issues with herself and so do I.

I for once in 2 weeks think maybe there is hope.

I told her from now on if she starts yelling or I start getting mad when we are talking I am walking out or hanging up. We can't get anywhere with negative communications.

Anyway I feel maybe there is hope for us. I see what I have done and what I need to do. I see what she has done and so does she. Now I just hope we haven't waited to late to work this out. I am still hurting with her being gone but maybe she will come back with time.

I actually smiled this morning.

[TrustInYourself]

Update.

Finally maybe we are getting somewhere. She finally opened up to me. She said she is not happy with herself. She got pregnant out of high school and feels she has never accomplished anything in her life. Also she went off on my on what I thought was a wild tangent but before she got through I really started thinking.

When we met I took her in and was babying her. I bought her everything she wanted didn't matter what it was. We spent all my savings $75k in year. We didn't even know how to pay the light bill. Then she got pregnant and we got married. I swore I would never go broke again. Well I haven't gone broke and have more now than ever, but I didn't realize I was putting her second to money. She said she told me but I never believed I guess. Well I thought last night ALL NIGHT. No sleep at all. I realized hey she is right. We have money but no happiness. I work 80-90 hours a week and don't apply any of my time to her needs. I have held resentment from our past for all of this. Blaming it all on her but I realized it was me also, the whole time. She didn't even have access to my money. I would leave for work and leave money for her everyday to go shopping, bought her new cars, house, clothes, and then when she got pregnant I just stopped all together. Now don't get me wrong I do not think all of this is my fault. She still has her issues with herself and so do I.

I for once in 2 weeks think maybe there is hope.

I told her from now on if she starts yelling or I start getting mad when we are talking I am walking out or hanging up. We can't get anywhere with negative communications.

Anyway I feel maybe there is hope for us. I see what I have done and what I need to do. I see what she has done and so does she. Now I just hope we haven't waited to late to work this out. I am still hurting with her being gone but maybe she will come back with time.

I actually smiled this morning.

 

I told you there is always a dynamic there. You have to focus on the dynamic you have the most control over, and that's you. You have the power to change, if you want to. Don't do it for her either, do it for you.

[wifesgone]

I told you there is always a dynamic there. You have to focus on the dynamic you have the most control over, and that's you. You have the power to change, if you want to. Don't do it for her either, do it for you.

 

 

Now I guess I just have to get past her not being there. Man that's the killer. She said she isn't coming back though, until she sees things change.

Does anyone have any input on how to show her I am changing? I know it will be gradual and won't happen over night.

[TrustInYourself]

Now I guess I just have to get past her not being there. Man that's the killer. She said she isn't coming back though, until she sees things change.

Does anyone have any input on how to show her I am changing? I know it will be gradual and won't happen over night.

 

You know the answer to this question better than any of us. I don't know what you do or how you do it, but there has to be a compromise on making money and putting your wife first. You have a behavior or habit ingrained inside of you. You have to address that. You have to make the decision to cut that behavior down or completely out. That behavior/habit has made you successful. You see what needs to be changed, but can you change? You now face a question that has no right or wrong answer.

 

Time and patience is the only way your wife is going to have time to see your changes man. This is the perfect time to reinforce the change you want to make. She needs perspective and time away as well, because she is taking you for granted as well. It's hard to appreciate someone when you are both angry and short with eachother, all the time. If you can change your perspective to see this time as an oppurtunity for the both of you, then you can treasure the times you are together even more. You come to realize your wife's importance and why you truly love her, even more.

 

Use this as a catalyst for change and growth. Sure you could force her back, but what have you gained? Gain something from this. For you and your children.

[wifesgone]

You know the answer to this question better than any of us. I don't know what you do or how you do it, but there has to be a compromise on making money and putting your wife first. You have a behavior or habit ingrained inside of you. You have to address that. You have to make the decision to cut that behavior down or completely out. That behavior/habit has made you successful. You see what needs to be changed, but can you change? You now face a question that has no right or wrong answer.

 

Time and patience is the only way your wife is going to have time to see your changes man. This is the perfect time to reinforce the change you want to make. She needs perspective and time away as well, because she is taking you for granted as well. It's hard to appreciate someone when you are both angry and short with eachother, all the time. If you can change your perspective to see this time as an oppurtunity for the both of you, then you can treasure the times you are together even more. You come to realize your wife's importance and why you truly love her, even more.

 

Use this as a catalyst for change and growth. Sure you could force her back, but what have you gained? Gain something from this. For you and your children.

 

 

Thank TIY. you have been a tremendous help. I thank you and may God bless you.

I'll let you all know how things go in the future.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I'm glad she's finally starting to open up to you. But I still dont get seperating to clear your head. I dont buy it. The thing is, what she resents you from being a hard worker and providing for your family??? WTF is that it? y'all could have worked that out in counciling? She wants to be her own woman and feel more useful around the house, she wants to follow her own dreams is that it?

 

Then why hasnt she told you about it, why must it take a seperation for her to open up to her own husband? I hate it when couples cant just speak their minds. men are not mind readers.

[TrustInYourself]

I'm glad she's finally starting to open up to you. But I still dont get seperating to clear your head. I dont buy it. The thing is, what she resents you from being a hard worker and providing for your family??? WTF is that it? y'all could have worked that out in counciling? She wants to be her own woman and feel more useful around the house, she wants to follow her own dreams is that it?

 

Then why hasnt she told you about it, why must it take a seperation for her to open up to her own husband? I hate it when couples cant just speak their minds. men are not mind readers.

 

Exactly, there are always two ways to view the situation. Perspective is everything. This goes back to what is more important? Providing financially? Or being poor and just being there emotionally? The values and language of love varies between people. We are all different. Just having the ability to see things from multiple perspectives is one of the things many couples just don't have the ability to do.

 

Sure, she has her issues with communicating her feelings but look at the context. She's dealing with a man's anger. That's intimidating for a woman. Ask any woman if she feels like opening up and not being understood or rebuked.

 

It's a matter of creating an environment where communication can happen. If you don't understand her perspective and refuse to compromise your own position, how can you both effectively communicate? You're too busy telling her the way it is.

[wifesgone]

I'm glad she's finally starting to open up to you. But I still dont get seperating to clear your head. I dont buy it. The thing is, what she resents you from being a hard worker and providing for your family??? WTF is that it? y'all could have worked that out in counciling? She wants to be her own woman and feel more useful around the house, she wants to follow her own dreams is that it?

 

Then why hasnt she told you about it, why must it take a seperation for her to open up to her own husband? I hate it when couples cant just speak their minds. men are not mind readers.

 

 

I don't understand it either. I don't understand her leaving and probably never will. I have put my job over her, I don't deny that. But our plans were for us to retire at 45 when the kids move out and travel. She has always wanted to travel. Of course with the economy like it is, my plans may be shot to hell anyway.

May as well work 40 hours a week and never retire.

[wifesgone]

Exactly, there are always two ways to view the situation. Perspective is everything. This goes back to what is more important? Providing financially? Or being poor and just being there emotionally? The values and language of love varies between people. We are all different. Just having the ability to see things from multiple perspectives is one of the things many couples just don't have the ability to do.

 

Sure, she has her issues with communicating her feelings but look at the context. She's dealing with a man's anger. That's intimidating for a woman. Ask any woman if she feels like opening up and not being understood or rebuked.

 

It's a matter of creating an environment where communication can happen. If you don't understand her perspective and refuse to compromise your own position, how can you both effectively communicate? You're too busy telling her the way it is.

 

Thats what I am trying to do, is see it from her perspective for a while. I dont like it, and am not going to like it. I have still told her I cannot make any promises and cannot guarantee we can work out our problems. Even if we can it will take a while i guess. I have emailed her back and forth today. We had some pretty good conversations today. At least we weren't at each others throats.

She did say she doesn't know if I can change, I don't either but I can try.

[TrustInYourself]

Thats what I am trying to do, is see it from her perspective for a while. I dont like it, and am not going to like it. I have still told her I cannot make any promises and cannot guarantee we can work out our problems. Even if we can it will take a while i guess. I have emailed her back and forth today. We had some pretty good conversations today. At least we weren't at each others throats.

She did say she doesn't know if I can change, I don't either but I can try.

 

You can either do or not do. Why waste time if you want to just half ass it. Just tell her it's over?

[in a daze]

I don't understand it either. I don't understand her leaving and probably never will. I have put my job over her, I don't deny that. But our plans were for us to retire at 45 when the kids move out and travel. She has always wanted to travel. Of course with the economy like it is, my plans may be shot to hell anyway.

May as well work 40 hours a week and never retire.

i am in the same boat, almost exactly. i agree with you 100%, b ut that is our opinion. i am going with the flow, and am going out next fri with her. i want it to work and if she is not comfortable the way it was ( mostly because or me forcing the issue) , then it would not work. bottom line, how mmuch do you love her and what would you do to make it work? it took me m2.5 weeks to manswer this, but i did and i am doing whatever it takes. gl