Sex and what it means to Men

[sxyNYCcpl]

Please tell me what kind of attitude would a person have to have to find that "loving."

 

Personally, I find that disturbing, but frankly when I think "porn" I think good old fashioned sex between 2 (or more) consenting adults where everyone is having a good time, documented in either pictures, video, or both.

 

I only heard about the "two girls and a cup" porn video and read about it after my neighbor girl tried to access it on my computer. Two women groping each other, defacating in a cup, eating it, and then vomiting in each other's mouths.

 

Again, I don't even consider this porn, it's just disgusting and demented. It is funny to watch peoples reactions when the view it, though! I saw it, once, and quite literally almost vomited.

 

But perhaps we (the collective we, not just you and I) need some better definitions, or more precise terms. When I defend "porn" apparently I'm defending something different that what you, and possibly others, are condemning.

[Woggle]

It's hard to explain why sex with a random woman and sex with your wife are two very different things. I don't know how to put it into words that people will understand.

[fral945]

How do you men use the same ACT to express something so important and meaningful as love; and then use the same ACT to have some meaningless "f---" fun. It really makes no logical sense.

 

And you men are supposed to be the logical ones.

 

It's because you're a woman and using female logic.

 

Why is it so hard to accept that men and women might actually comprehend and view the act of sex differently?

 

How do you expect women to feel knowing you "f---" your wives like you "f---" a skanky hooker.

 

We don't know because we're men and not women. We don't think like women and most men realize and acknowledge that men and women are different. I don't think the same can be said for women.

 

We have to be told or taught how it makes a woman feel. We can't read minds.

 

How would you feel if your wife told you she used to "f--" some man-whore at the bar every weekend before you came along...and now she wants to "f--" you the same way? Would that make you feel loved and honored?

 

I don't know about honored, but loved and turned on, yes.

[audrey_1]

How often does that happen? Women tend to fall out of love and reject men on a whim while if a man falls out of love with a woman he must have a very good reason. I know that sounds sexist but men usually don't just stop being attracted to a woman all of a sudden.

 

 

It happened to me. I was seeing what now seems to be a serial dater or commitmentphobe, not sure which, though his best friend says it's the latter.

 

I thought we had great sex. I felt connected, though apparently he didn't. Though he kept having sex with me for several months, it grew more sparse along the way, then he said he was trying to "wean" me off. I was horrified. He should have just said he didn't want to have sex with me anymore.

 

I felt rotten.

[fral945]

It's hard to explain why sex with a random woman and sex with your wife are two very different things. I don't know how to put it into words that people will understand.

 

I think you mean into words that women will understand. I think most men can understand and don't require an explanation.

[taylor]

How often does that happen? Women tend to fall out of love and reject men on a whim while if a man falls out of love with a woman he must have a very good reason. I know that sounds sexist but men usually don't just stop being attracted to a woman all of a sudden.

 

Woggle, I actually agree with you somewhat here.

 

Women do fall out of love and unfortunately they do often reject the man sexually when this happens. Once the emotional connection is gone, the sex is gone. This IS how we are wired.

 

I do believe a man can fall out of love and continue to have sex because he can do it without the emotional connection much easier than a woman can.

 

It would be nice if, in troubled marriages, women could continue to have sex with their spouse, until the other problems in the marriage get worked out. But this just isn't the way it works. The marriage becomes troubled, the woman stops sex, the man gets confused and then gets angry. It's a downward spiral and the lack of sex just makes the problems in the marriage worse and the marriage more difficult to recover.

[audrey_1]

Woggle, I actually agree with you somewhat here.

 

Women do fall out of love and unfortunately they do often reject the man sexually when this happens. Once the emotional connection is gone, the sex is gone. This IS how we are wired.

 

I do believe a man can fall out of love and continue to have sex because he can do it without the emotional connection much easier than a woman can.

 

It would be nice if, in troubled marriages, women could continue to have sex with their spouse, until the other problems in the marriage get worked out. But this just isn't the way it works. The marriage becomes troubled, the woman stops sex, the man gets confused and then gets angry. It's a downward spiral and the lack of sex just makes the problems in the marriage worse and the marriage more difficult to recover.

 

But this happened to me in REVERSE. I am the woman and wanted lots of sex...

[Jersey Shortie]

And you men are supposed to be the logical ones.

 

 

Please. Men are the ones that say they are more logical. They aren't any more logical when it comes to love and sex then women are.

[fral945]

But this happened to me in REVERSE. I am the woman and wanted lots of sex...

 

I feel sorry for you and it's probably a more difficult problem for women because the man has to want sex and be physically aroused for it to occur.

 

But I think you'd have to admit men are far more likely to complain about lack of sex. The number of women with your problem is equivalent to the number of men who complain about their emotionally unavailable wives.

[taylor]

Please. Men are the ones that say they are more logical. They aren't any more logical when it comes to love and sex then women are.

 

OK, they aren't more logical, but they sure think we should be!

[Woggle]

The issue is that most men don't know what the hell this emotional connection and how the hell to acheive it. You think you have it all of a sudden she tells you that she doesn't feel it anymore. I actually think that this is a reason why many men just decide to become players. You do all the right things that women say they want and they still turn on you. It's much easier to just have sex and dump them when they act up. It's not the first choice for most men but we will figure out the answer to time travel but before we figure how to acheive this emotional connection women keep talking about.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Many male posters in sexless marriage scream on this forum saying sex is what they need to feel loved. They do see sex as love. They aren't screaming for some "f----" fun.

 

Perhaps they put it that way because they feel rejected, which makes them feel unloved. I was once in that boat, I ended up having to get a new boat to fix the problem. That did fix the problem, though, I am happy to report!

 

Yet if they don't get the "love", they threaten to go out and get it elsewhere. What is they are going out to get....the love they need or the "f---- fun."

 

Sex is so many things. It's gentle lovemaking between soulmates. It's vigorous, bang the headboard against the wall between to lovers. It's a spur of the moment, casual thing done strictly for physical pleasure between 6 people who barely even know each others names. One thing it's not for most people is something they want none of in their lives.

 

It's not just the "casual observer" who confuses a man's love making with his "f--- fun" sex. Oftentimes it's the very woman who the man is having sex with. She can't tell which kind of sex he's having with her.

 

If you can't tell what kind it is, you're not doing it right. It's not always one way or the other, even between a committed, monogamous couple. The quickie in the back of the truck under the summer sky? That f**king. The slow, deliberate candle lit encounter after an anniversary dinner? That's making love. Even if they both happen on the same day.

 

Sometimes he lies about it...tells her he loves her, has sex with her, then ditches her. I know of men who have been in relationships for more than a year, professing love, and then ended the relationship saying, "I only kept her around for sex." What kind of sex would that be? Please explain.

 

I have no idea, as I have never been in that situation. My instinct is that "I only kept her around for sex." is more about a defense mechanism than the truth, as it is easier to get over if it was just about sex than if it were actually a meaningful relationship.

 

How do you expect women to feel knowing you "f---" your wives like you "f---" a skanky hooker.

 

I wouldn't know, I've never been with a skanky hooker (in any capacity) before.

 

How would you feel if your wife told you she used to "f--" some man-whore at the bar every weekend before you came along...and now she wants to "f--" you the same way? Would that make you feel loved and honored?

 

My wife has f**ked quite a few men, and women, and as we do not have physical monogamy as a requirement for our relationship, continues to do so, so I guess it doesn't make me feel bad at all. She makes me feel loved in so many ways, and our sex life is just part of it. It is said that when sex is good, it is but 5% of a relationship, but when it's bad it becomes 95%. I believe that is mostly accurate.

[sxyNYCcpl]

If your daughter came home and told you she got drunk and let 7 strange men rub her between the legs and squeeze her breasts while they all laughed and drank, would you pat your daughter on the back, embrace her, and be proud that she was celebrating her sexuality?

 

Assuming she were old enough, possessed sufficient emotional maturity, and I believed that she consented and participated of her own free will, of course I would. Why do you find that humorous? Do you find sexual activity degrading by definition?

[taylor]

Assuming she were old enough, possessed sufficient emotional maturity, and I believed that she consented and participated of her own free will, of course I would. Why do you find that humorous? Do you find sexual activity degrading by definition?

 

I'm an old fashioned girl, sxyNYCcpl. So I am fairly sure you and I will not agree on too much regarding sexual activity. To each his own.

 

I know that I would be very disappointed in a daughter of mine if she chose to let 7 strange men touch her all over like this girl did. She was actually being tossed from one horny guy to the next. And yes, it did enrage my senses.

 

How did I feel. I felt sorry for her..that she didn't think highly enough of herself to respect herself and her body. She allowed men to touch her who didn't deserve to use her body like that. They did not respect her or her body.

 

All that may sound very old fashioned to you but I offer no apologies for my opinion.

 

I personally couldn't have sex with anyone unless I cared about them and thought that they cared about me. Nor could I have sex with a man unless he and I were in an exclusive relationship. I don't want to have sex with a man I have to share with another woman. And I wouldn't let a strange man use my body for sexual pleasure, like a man uses a hooker. To him, I am just a piece of flesh. Nothing more. And if I did that, it would make me feel like nothing more than a hooker. I have way more respect for myself than to ever let that happen.

 

I can have tons of sex with a man I love and one that loves me back. I can have the quickie, the just for fun sex, and the romantic candlelight sex..all in the same day...because at the end of the day I would know that man loves me. And that makes all the difference.

 

I don't need a vibrator, a porn video, phone sex, or a magazine to make me feel loved or desired. I don't need 7 strangers groping me to feel good. I only need one man who loves and needs me.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I'm an old fashioned girl, sxyNYCcpl. So I am fairly sure you and I will not agree on too much regarding sexual activity. To each his own.

 

And that is fine, as persuading you to change is not on my agenda, if you're happy with your life, and it works for you and yours, fantastic. However, I've noted that you have a tendency of using some rather charged language, indicating perhaps some judgmental attitudes towards people who choose differently.

 

I know that I would be very disappointed in a daughter of mine if she chose to let 7 strange men touch her all over like this girl did. She was actually being tossed from one horny guy to the next. And yes, it did enrage my senses.

 

There's what I mean. She was being "tossed around" by a "bunch of horny guys". Perhaps she was enjoying herself? Being the center of attention? I know the idea of a woman in a situation like this actually enjoying it goes counter to your grain, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

How did I feel. I felt sorry for her..that she didn't think highly enough of herself to respect herself and her body. She allowed men to touch her who didn't deserve to use her body like that. They did not respect her or her body.

 

More judgmentalism. How does allowing people to touch you (generic you, not you you) indicative of any level of disrespect? Perhaps she was allowing them to touch her, not so they could "use" her body, but purely for *HER* pleasure. Is that so hard to comprehend?

 

I don't need a vibrator, a porn video, phone sex, or a magazine to make me feel loved or desired. I don't need 7 strangers groping me to feel good. I only need one man who loves and needs me.

 

If you're happy, I'm happy. But you seem to think that since you are happy living that way, so should the rest of us, lest we be labeled as "skanky" or "immoral" or "deviant". All words you have used in this very thread.

[taylor]

And that is fine, as persuading you to change is not on my agenda, if you're happy with your life, and it works for you and yours, fantastic. However, I've noted that you have a tendency of using some rather charged language, indicating perhaps some judgmental attitudes towards people who choose differently.

 

I didn't invent the words "sk--k, "sl--" or "wh---e." Some other judgemental people did. And I must say I do hear these words quite often on these threads, particularly from MEN who apparantly are also quite judgemental toward women and their sexual behavior.

 

It's not just old fashioned girls useing these words. In fact, I never heard the word "sk---k' until I logged on to this forum. I had to look the word up on the urban slang dictionary to find out its meaning.

 

 

 

There's what I mean. She was being "tossed around" by a "bunch of horny guys". Perhaps she was enjoying herself? Being the center of attention? I know the idea of a woman in a situation like this actually enjoying it goes counter to your grain, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

Well, from where I was standing the guys looked pretty drunk and horny. They couldn't take their eyes off her and were actually getting into watching their buddies feel her up. So, I assumed they were horny...but then again I could be wrong about that...And when one was done with her they literally did guide her by her hips to the next waiting gentleman sitting with open arms. I would classify that as a kind of "toss." Maybe I should have said "pass." Yeah, "pass her around" was more like it. And you know what I thought was odd..this girl never looked at these men. She had her azz in each of their faces. She had no idea who was feeling her up at any given moment.

 

 

 

More judgmentalism. How does allowing people to touch you (generic you, not you you) indicative of any level of disrespect? Perhaps she was allowing them to touch her, not so they could "use" her body, but purely for *HER* pleasure. Is that so hard to comprehend?

 

I wonder what that girl thought of herself the next day. I wonder what she will think of her behavior that night in 5 or 10 years from now. I wasn't the only person there who had enraged senses. There were many people who felt very uncomfortable by what they were witnessing.

 

Respect - to feel or show honor for; to be courteous, to show polite regard.

 

Respectability - patterns of living or behaving that are regarded as respectable.

 

 

Blatant displays of sexual activity in public places, to that extent, is not considered acceptable behavior in our society. Men can't even "flash" without getting arrested.

 

Now you are going to tell me that where you live men and women can have sex in the park while everyone walks their dog and plays ball with their kids, but where I live, it's not the norm.

 

I will never believe in a million years that the girl at the bar was the only one getting any pleasure from the experience.

 

In fact, I doubt she even remembered what she did the next day.

 

But you seem to think that since you are happy living that way, so should the rest of us, lest we be labeled as "skanky" or "immoral" or "deviant". All words you have used in this very thread.

 

You can and you will live however you choose to live. I'm only expressing my opinion of how I feel about certain sexual behavior. Certain words help me get my opinion across. If it sounds judgemental, so be it. I said earlier, I make no apologies for my value system. But I also will not stoop to name calling people who choose a lifestyle different than mine. Like I said, to each his own.

 

I have made mistakes. Big ones. I have made horribly bad moral decisions. I had an emotional affair with a coworker nearly a year ago. I am the last person who would ever judge people for what decisions they make in their lives. But I will judge their behavior, just as I judge my own behavior.

 

I have a value system in place for myself (as I am sure you do) and I strive to hold on to it even tho I often miss the mark, as I did last year.

[Jersey Shortie]

The issue is that most men don't know what the hell this emotional connection and how the hell to acheive it. You think you have it all of a sudden she tells you that she doesn't feel it anymore.

 

I agree with this much of your statement.

 

 

 

And I also agreed with everything you've said Taylor. There is not many fathers who would like knowing their daughters were treated thus. And there are not many women that would really truly in their hearts want to be treated thus. That has nothing to do with sexual equality or freedom or social norms that are or aren't excepted. Not only do I feel sorry for that girl. I feel sorry for those men and the women in those men lives.

[Lovelybird]

What you witnessed was a woman who has decided that she gets to decide how to deal with her sexuality and not some backwards societal standard that "good girls don't". That she is going to embrace and celebrate her sexuality, rather than keep it bottled up under conditions that others have dictated to her. And I believe it's happening more and more and will continue to do so.

.

 

Women may want to embrace their sexuality along with love, but NOT want to be treated as sexual object, and be degraded and be treated like a prostitute. The later isn't about "embrace sexuality", but about "embrace brutal self-devaluation"

 

The porn numbed people's sensitivities to others, the watchers are indulging in releasing of own lust in the price of others' pain and humiliation. when they are used to these porns, they play them on their wives.

[Lovelybird]

It is said that when sex is good, it is but 5% of a relationship, but when it's bad it becomes 95%. I believe that is mostly accurate.

 

This is a judgement that come from your view of point. To the women, before the lacking of sex, the emotional connection were all gone, maybe long time ago. Lacking of sex isn't the root, but a manifestation. Women like sex, but if she cannot feel loved, the sex is "violation to her", like rape, or prostitute.

 

you cannot degrade her on daytime, and expect sex at bedtime; cannot lust after other women on daytime, and expect sex at bedtime. Women aren't machine, we have emotions.

 

Have you ever wonder why women are so much different from men??? To draw men from their self-centerness.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I didn't invent the words "sk--k, "sl--" or "wh---e." Some other judgemental people did. And I must say I do hear these words quite often on these threads, particularly from MEN who apparantly are also quite judgemental toward women and their sexual behavior.

 

No, you didn't invent them. Nor did I. For the most part, they were created by a society that teaches women that they had best suppress their sexuality, or else! And you are right that far too frequently men use these terms in a disparaging way. Alas, unfortunately, many men have bought into the idea that "good girls" don't enjoy their sexuality, rather they should live as prudes. I think it's slowly getting better, but we're not there yet.

 

Despite the fact that you didn't invent them, and perhaps only recently learned them, you seem to have no problem throwing them around. Seems to me you think your values are better than theirs.

 

Well, from where I was standing the guys looked pretty drunk and horny. They couldn't take their eyes off her and were actually getting into watching their buddies feel her up.

 

I did not object to your assessment of the situation because you called the guys "horny". I suspect you were right about that. But what you missed was the fact that the girl in question may have also been horny, and may very much have enjoyed being touched by 7 guys. Certainly, when I am horny the idea of being touched by 7 women in a sexual manner is quite appealing.

 

And you know what I thought was odd..this girl never looked at these men. She had her azz in each of their faces. She had no idea who was feeling her up at any given moment.

 

So what? You say they were using her, I say it's the other way around. She was using them to get her jollies and it didn't matter who the were or what they looked like, she just wanted to get off. Good for her!

 

I wonder what that girl thought of herself the next day. I wonder what she will think of her behavior that night in 5 or 10 years from now.

 

Well, unless her behavior was a result of gross alcohol intoxication I suspect she woke up with no guilt whatsoever. Which is a good thing as her behavior required no guilt.

 

I wasn't the only person there who had enraged senses. There were many people who felt very uncomfortable by what they were witnessing.

 

I don't possess enough information to know if this is reasonable or not, as I don't know the place or circumstances in question. Everything has a time and a place that is appropriate, and likewise a time and place that is not. Based solely of my memory of your original description, which is consenting adults getting a little freaky, but not too much, in an adult drinking establishment, IMO it was not inappropriate.

 

Blatant displays of sexual activity in public places, to that extent, is not considered acceptable behavior in our society. Men can't even "flash" without getting arrested.

 

Apparently you do not frequent the same bars I do. Which may be a good thing for both of us.

 

Now you are going to tell me that where you live men and women can have sex in the park while everyone walks their dog and plays ball with their kids, but where I live, it's not the norm.

 

Nope, I don't live there. But I do live in a place where consenting adults can come together and have sex in an environment where it is welcome and outsiders do not interfere.

 

I wish.

 

I live in a place where judgmental asses can come along and decide that, because they do not wish to engage in consensual non-monogamy, others should not be allowed to. A place where people who are non-participants have more to say about what happens than those who are. In other words, I live in 21-st Century USA, where judgmental asses tell us and our friends what we are and are not allowed to do, and nobody stops them. Yes, we truly live in freedom. Or not.

 

I will never believe in a million years that the girl at the bar was the only one getting any pleasure from the experience.

 

You're projecting. I know many, many women who would have thoroughly enjoyed that, including my own lovely wife. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean nobody would.

 

If it sounds judgemental, so be it. I said earlier, I make no apologies for my value system. But I also will not stoop to name calling people who choose a lifestyle different than mine. Like I said, to each his own.

 

You're being contradictory, in the same paragraph. "I also will not stoop to name calling, but if it sounds judgmental, so be it." Which is it, as you have indeed stooped to name calling?

[Lovelybird]

yeah, some freedom leads you right into deeper pit.

 

freedom of watching porn lead you to a porn addicter

freedom of using drug leads you to a drug addicter

 

you are a slave, a slave that only feed your own selfishness, and make excuses to make others to suit you. It is all about consume others

 

One step back, think about what you do will benefit your wife?

[taylor]

No, you didn't invent them. Nor did I. For the most part, they were created by a society that teaches women that they had best suppress their sexuality, or else! And you are right that far too frequently men use these terms in a disparaging way. Alas, unfortunately, many men have bought into the idea that "good girls" don't enjoy their sexuality, rather they should live as prudes. I think it's slowly getting better, but we're not there yet.

 

Despite the fact that you didn't invent them, and perhaps only recently learned them, you seem to have no problem throwing them around. Seems to me you think your values are better than theirs.

 

I think in this day and age all humans need to suppress their sexual urges a bit...STD's and unwanted pregnancies tells us that.

 

Saying we are "slowly getting better" is your opinion. All depends on what the intended goal is. I respectfully disagree that we are "getting better." I would we are getting much worse, but that's just my opinion.

 

I throw the words around to illustrate behavior. I do not and will not specifically call a particular person by one of those names. For example, I did not call the girl in the bar a particular name; nor will I call the men in the bar a particular name. Nor will I call you or your wife or any other poster on these threads a particular name.

 

You also throw around judgemental words as well such as "prude."

 

No, I do not think my values are BETTER than anyone else's. But they are the values that work best for me. If I can uphold my own set of values, that's what makes me feel good about me. And if I fail to uphold my own self-imposed values, I feel bad about myself. Everyone sets their own bar.

 

 

 

I did not object to your assessment of the situation because you called the guys "horny". I suspect you were right about that. But what you missed was the fact that the girl in question may have also been horny, and may very much have enjoyed being touched by 7 guys. Certainly, when I am horny the idea of being touched by 7 women in a sexual manner is quite appealing.

So what? You say they were using her, I say it's the other way around. She was using them to get her jollies and it didn't matter who the were or what they looked like, she just wanted to get off. Good for her!

Well, unless her behavior was a result of gross alcohol intoxication I suspect she woke up with no guilt whatsoever. Which is a good thing as her behavior required no guilt.

 

Yes! That was it...gross alcohol intoxication.

 

 

 

 

I don't possess enough information to know if this is reasonable or not, as I don't know the place or circumstances in question. Everything has a time and a place that is appropriate, and likewise a time and place that is not. Based solely of my memory of your original description, which is consenting adults getting a little freaky, but not too much, in an adult drinking establishment, IMO it was not inappropriate.

 

She and the men should have gotten a private room IMO.

[sxyNYCcpl]

One step back, think about what you do will benefit your wife?

 

What a silly question. She gets the same benefits I do. We are partners, we are equals, we are lovers. We do what we do because we want to. And because we can.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I think in this day and age all humans need to suppress their sexual urges a bit...STD's and unwanted pregnancies tells us that.

 

Just about any action you can take involves risk of some kind. Even mundane things like getting out of bed or driving to work. STD's and unwanted pregnancies are mostly preventable, though you cannot take the risk to 0. In my experience, it's close enough to 0 to be acceptable. BTW, if you care to do a bit of research you'd find that STD infection rates are near all-time lows.

 

Saying we are "slowly getting better" is your opinion. All depends on what the intended goal is. I respectfully disagree that we are "getting better." I would we are getting much worse, but that's just my opinion.

 

I suppose you are right, but I fail to see the appeal of sexual repression, for either gender, as a good thing.

 

I throw the words around to illustrate behavior. I do not and will not specifically call a particular person by one of those names. For example, I did not call the girl in the bar a particular name; nor will I call the men in the bar a particular name. Nor will I call you or your wife or any other poster on these threads a particular name.

 

A petty distinction, IMO. While I do in fact appreciate that you have not stooped to calling me any names, and indeed you haven't, it doesn't change the fact that you've labeled behaviors that I engage in with them.

 

You also throw around judgemental words as well such as "prude."

 

I've typed that word exactly once in my entire experience on LS, but I wasn't making a judgment, I was merely observing that many of the threads here are variations on the "men are pigs vs. women are prudes". I stand by that observation, and even though I have now doubled my historical use of that word here, I have yet to label anyone with it. Though I've been tempted.

 

No, I do not think my values are BETTER than anyone else's. But they are the values that work best for me. If I can uphold my own set of values, that's what makes me feel good about me. And if I fail to uphold my own self-imposed values, I feel bad about myself. Everyone sets their own bar.

 

Good for you. As I said before, if you're happy with your choices, decisions, and boundaries, than so am I. However:

 

She and the men should have gotten a private room IMO.

 

You don't seem to be happy letting others have their own.

 

Yes! That was it...gross alcohol intoxication.

 

Yes, it HAD to be that, because no woman would ever get pleasure from having multiple men touch her. I have news for you, you're grossly mistaken.

[rlindzie]

[back with the orininal topic] i agree as lovers we all have to do things at times we dont want to, for the benifit of the relationship. But like some other ppl said , for me it is not a libido thing i find i have the same if not some times more of a sex drive than my bf, it is a connection thing. If he has hurt me in some way then i wouldnt want to touch him, at least untill we tallked it out first. I have to have the connection, and i think that is normal for everyone man and woman. But i am young and that is just what i have gathered from my expierences.

 

on a side note: ppl need to do less jabbing at one another here, i mean we are all hear for support and or to learn things. We deal with enough negatives in life. this should be a posotive open place, if ppl want to argue i bet there are blogs for that