65tr6 Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 But once that is institutionalized and "accepted", then why would it not follow that kiddie porn be considered "normal" or sleeping with the pet dog? Where does it end? that is the price you pay as you "advance" as human beings/as soceity... Here is what I told a friend of mine (after the d-day).... I believe Values, Morals, Materialism, Comfort is all a zero sum game. You cannot have all of them increasing at the same time as the society advances. If get some but loose something else. If you look at other countries/cultures, they put more emphasis on values, morals but miss out on something else. I dont think it remains that way for long though. It changes. Very slowly over time. 200 years from now, who knows, other countries/cultures would have caught up. I told my wife the samething, how long will it be before you say it is fine to be legally married to a dog ? As preposterous as it may sound...it may not be 50 years from now. You can blame all you want on the internet porn, movies, strip clubs but I think we are missing the big picture here. This is the price we pay. Like it or not.
carhill Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I think, rather than plunging into the abyss, sexual mores will cycle back and forth, just as they have done throughout history. The shrinking of the world with instant information and entertainment, topically sexual, is something we're still getting used to as a world society. Personally, even with all the changes in sexual mores and practices in my 50 years on this ball, sex still essentially means the same thing to me as it did when I was a young man. Perhaps that is naive, but no one else has to walk my path nor I theirs. I like to think I'm liberal within my conservative boundaries
carhill Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 I think, rather than plunging into the abyss, sexual mores will cycle back and forth, just as they have done throughout history. The shrinking of the world with instant information and entertainment, topically sexual, is something we're still getting used to as a world society. Personally, even with all the changes in sexual mores and practices in my 50 years on this ball, sex still essentially means the same thing to me as it did when I was a young man. Perhaps that is naive, but no one else has to walk my path nor I theirs. I like to think I'm liberal within my conservative boundaries
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 that is the price you pay as you "advance" as human beings/as soceity... Here is what I told a friend of mine (after the d-day).... I believe Values, Morals, Materialism, Comfort is all a zero sum game. You cannot have all of them increasing at the same time as the society advances. If get some but loose something else. If you look at other countries/cultures, they put more emphasis on values, morals but miss out on something else. I dont think it remains that way for long though. It changes. Very slowly over time. 200 years from now, who knows, other countries/cultures would have caught up. I told my wife the samething, how long will it be before you say it is fine to be legally married to a dog ? As preposterous as it may sound...it may not be 50 years from now. You can blame all you want on the internet porn, movies, strip clubs but I think we are missing the big picture here. This is the price we pay. Like it or not. I would take morals and values any day over materialism and comfort. Other countries and cultures may envy us for our technological, industrial and scientific advances, but they look down on us as we systematically destroy the moral fabric of our own society. We are paying the moral price...FOR WHAT? What is worth sacrificing our integrity and respect for?
Woggle Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 If you want old fashioned morals and values you can always move to Saudi Arabia. You think women are disrespected in this country you haven't seen anything yet. Also many places in Europe and some aspects of Japan are more perverse than we are. Have you ever seen japanese porn?
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 I think, rather than plunging into the abyss, sexual mores will cycle back and forth, just as they have done throughout history. The shrinking of the world with instant information and entertainment, topically sexual, is something we're still getting used to as a world society. Personally, even with all the changes in sexual mores and practices in my 50 years on this ball, sex still essentially means the same thing to me as it did when I was a young man. Perhaps that is naive, but no one else has to walk my path nor I theirs. I like to think I'm liberal within my conservative boundaries I can't speak for other women, but I know as a woman, I sometimes have difficulty truly understanding what sex really means to a man. Women like to think men equate sex with love and affection, passion and romance and desire for that one woman who stands above all the rest..for the woman that means everything to them. So many men come on this forum lamenting the lack of sex in their marriages, claiming they NEED the physical intimacy to FEEL LOVED. Other men come on the forum and claim sex is the way they show their wives they love them..it's the way a man communicates love. YET, the millions of dollars and the time men spend fixated on deviant sexual activities..prostitutes, strip clubs, pornography, phone sex...makes you REALLY WONDER what sex truly does mean to a man. If a man needs sex to feel loved, and his wife gives him sex, then why does he also need hookers, strippers, porn stars and phone sex to make him feel loved? And how DOES having sex with these other entities make him FEEL LOVED? Is a man that insecure that he needs to FEEL LOVED thru all these other avenues, as well as by his wife? DOES HE REALLY NEED SEX TO FEEL LOVED? And if he does, like he claims, how many times a week does he need to have sex to be assured that his wife loves him...2 times, 8 times, 17 times? So, tell me, what does sex really mean to a man: If a man has sex with his wife? If a man has a one night stand with a woman from a bar? If a man has sex with an ex-girlfriend? If he has sex with a stripper at a club? If he has phone sex? If he has sex with a girl a month into a relationship? If he has sex with a new girl one month out of an old relationship? Sex is sex. It's all the same act...sexual intercourse. With the same result...orgasm... So, does it mean something or doesn't it. And if it means something, what does it mean? Men in sexless marriages threaten to go get it somewhere else if their wives don't "put out." They might cheat, have a one night stand, resume a sexual relationship with an ex-girlfriend. And when they do seek it elsewhere, do they "feel loved"? How so? I don't understand men who have sexual intercourse outside of a relationship and say, "It didn't mean anything" and then they have sexual intercourse (the same act) with their wife and say, "This is how I show you I love you" and "this is how I need you to show me love." Male sexual intercourse is so contradictory. So, which is it? Do you have sex to communicate your feelings of love, to feel loved, or do you have sex to communicate it means nothing? And how is a woman supposed to know when you have sex with her what your sex is all about..love, feeling loved, just getting your rocks off, or nothing at all? How can one act mean something so profound in one instant and then nothing...or something deviant in another instant? The ACT is the same but the meaning is so polar opposite. How do you have sexual intercourse with your wife to show her you love her... And then how do you have sexual intercourse with someone else without it meaning anything. How can you have sexual intercourse with the love of your life and then turn around and have the same sexual intercourse with a hooker or a stripper? How could you "use" the same activity with a hooker to demonstrate your love for your wife???? It's all the same act!
Lovelybird Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 I can't speak for other women, but I know as a woman, I sometimes have difficulty truly understanding what sex really means to a man. Women like to think men equate sex with love and affection, passion and romance and desire for that one woman who stands above all the rest..for the woman that means everything to them. So many men come on this forum lamenting the lack of sex in their marriages, claiming they NEED the physical intimacy to FEEL LOVED. Other men come on the forum and claim sex is the way they show their wives they love them..it's the way a man communicates love. YET, the millions of dollars and the time men spend fixated on deviant sexual activities..prostitutes, strip clubs, pornography, phone sex...makes you REALLY WONDER what sex truly does mean to a man. If a man needs sex to feel loved, and his wife gives him sex, then why does he also need hookers, strippers, porn stars and phone sex to make him feel loved? Is a man that insecure that he needs to FEEL LOVED thru all these other avenues, as well as by his wife? DOES HE REALLY NEED SEX TO FEEL LOVED? And if he does, how many times a week does he need to have sex to be assured that his wife loves him...2 times, 8 times, 17 times? So, tell me, what does sex really mean to a man? If a man has sex with his wife? If a man has a one night stand with a woman from a bar? If a man has sex with an ex-girlfriend? If he has sex with a stripper at a club? If he has phone sex? If he has sex with a girl a month into a relationship? If he has sex with a new girl one month out of an old relationship? Sex is sex. Does it mean something or doesn't it. And if it means something, what does it mean? Men in sexless marriages threaten to go get it somewhere else if their wives don't "put out." They might cheat, have a one night stand, resume a sexual relationship with an ex-girlfriend. And when they do seek it elsewhere, do they "feel loved"? I don't understand men who have sex outside of a relationship and then say, "It didn't mean anything" and then they have sex with their wife and say, "This is how I show you I love you." Male sexual intercourse is so contradictory. So, which is it? Do you have sex to communicate your feelings of love or do you have sex to communicate it means nothing? And how is a woman supposed to know when you have sex with her what your sex is all about..love, feeling loved, just getting your rocks off, or nothing at all? How can one act mean something so profound in one instant and then nothing...or something deviant in another instant? How do you have sexual intercourse with your wife to show her you love her... And then how do you have sexual intercourse with someone else without it meaning anything. How can you have sexual intercourse with the love of your life and then turn around and have the same sexual intercourse with a hooker or a stripper? How could you "use" the same activity with a hooker to demonstrate your love for your wife???? It's all the same act! great questions ! Unselfish men don't lack of sex (or don't make it a big deal to the degree seek affairs and prostitutes), because they generously give and meet their women's emotional needs
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 If you want old fashioned morals and values you can always move to Saudi Arabia. You think women are disrespected in this country you haven't seen anything yet. Also many places in Europe and some aspects of Japan are more perverse than we are. Have you ever seen japanese porn? No, I don't waste my time looking at porn. Just because there are other countries with more perverse porn than we have, doesn't give us anything to brag about. If you stick your toe in dog crap or you stick your whole foot in dog crap, you still have dog crap on your foot. The only values and morals I strive to uphold...and I have fallen along the way...are the ones set forth by the teaching of Jesus Christ...so I don't think I'll be making any trips to Saudi Arabia in the near future. When I think about porn..I think WWJD? If I had my wish, all the money that men spent on deviant sexual escapades would be spent on children living in poverty around the world. What a difference that money would make. It really wasn't my intention to get into a debate about the morality of porn because it's a never-ending debate and one that no one will ever be able to "enlighten" me about. Nor do I care to shove my own personal views down anyone else's throats more than I already have. So I will respectfully bow out of any more debate on this particular topic. I don't want to add any more fuel to this fire.
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 great questions ! Unselfish men don't lack of sex (or don't make it a big deal to the degree seek affairs and prostitutes), because they generously give and meet their women's emotional needs Sex, to me, is all about giving. But when men have sex, I wonder. Is it an act of giving or an act of taking? When a man hugs a woman, kisses her, gets aroused, penetrates her and ejaculates...is that an act of giving or taking? If it's an act of giving, then he gives to his wife..but he also gives to the one-night stand, the prostitute and the stripper. If it's an act of taking, then he takes from his wife...and also takes from the one-night stand, the prostitute and the stripper. So then how does the physical act of sexual intercourse mean "love" and "not love" at the same time?
Woggle Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Porn and strip clubs are to men what romance novels, vibrators and Ricky Martin or whatever male pop singer women are drooling over these days. It is strictly a fantasy and going to the nudie bar is way for men to bond and hang out together. Any healthy man takes it no further and if he does then he has a problem. Cheating is wrong as well but women are just as bad as men are and this is nothing new. It's just talked about more. You may think WWJD but everybody is not a christian or a believer in religion. You have your right to your religious beliefs but don't try to force others to live up to them.
pyroguy Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Taylor[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana], I'll get back to grandpa and today's woman in another post since you have switched gears here.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Again, I think you are way off base here. I have looked and studied sexuality and what woman are up to for almost 2 years. I once had this crazy notion I could write a book. The research spiraled into looking into more than I needed to. Trust me here, the landscape is just as bad or worse for men regarding porn, strip clubs, etc.,[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Today, there are countless websites geared towards embarassing husbands and giving the notion that most wives would rather have someone else physically besides their husbands. You know what, it's probably true, as sad as that is. See? it even has influenced me.Yes, men probably run those sites too, but women are willing participants. They probably cater to guys who are into that sort of thing, but it's still degrading. Even those sites that are not supposed to be that way, still end up getting their embarassing shots in. I can provide you a list if you wish to see them.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Strip clubs is another great example. The behavior at some male strip clubs is not to be believed. A couple of years back I posted here with a few clips from some male strip shows, and the silence from female readers was deafening. It was great stuff, making out with the guys, feeling their dicks, and simulating sex acts. I'm pretty sure I saw some rings on fingers in some of these clips. Hey, you look at it as "men did it, so we shouldn't be surprised". Mayb so, and I guess men did start it(I'll address that in another post), but i'm just setting the record straight here. Porn can degrade both if you look at it that way, but to be honest, I don't see any porn that has the husband having sex with other women, all the while telling the wife how hot the girl is, how small her tits are , and she doesn't do for him what this hot young girl does.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Personally, I don't have a problem with porn in general, but some is bad- period, and it should never come between regular sex with your spouse or SO. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Also, you ask about what sex means to men and how they can have sex with the wife to show love and then do the same thing with some girl they hardly know. Well, the same way today's woman will. They separate love from sex. One sex has meaning, and the other is just an act. Funny, I get it , and I don't get it, myself. The scary thing for men is that it seems more and more women are assuming that "separation of sex and love" position more and more- maybe even more than men. They seem to want "relationship and secure man", and then the hot guy they fantasize about. This is sort of an insult to a man without intentionally trying to do so.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Lilke I said, I think most men are wired to want to be relevant sexually. Knowing that your woman wants a relationship with you, but may want to have sex with someone else can be devestating, or troublesome. We are wired that way. When that is not present, I'd argue that we are not so gung-ho about the rest of the relationship, regardless of what women may think of how great it is. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think women are this way too, but far far less than men. It's realted to the fact that most men have a more difficult time with a wife's phyisical affair, and women have a worse time with a husbands emotional affair. See the corrolation?[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I just think the sexes today are so closely related in behavior, that it's hard to distinguish anymore.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Maybe the swingers have it correct. If we all have these thoughts and fantasies, why are we bothering to stay with this one person?. If it's so much torture, why bother?[/FONT][/COLOR]
pyroguy Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Wow, that was crazy how that just came out-sorry. I was working at the same time, and it timed out on me. I copied it over , logged back in and pasted it in the rsponse box. sorry.
Els Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 @Taylor: I would highly suspect that the girl was merely curious as well -- that video certainly achieved much...uh.. 'fame' and renown especially among high school and college kids, so most likely she would've heard her friends talking/laughing about it and wondered what it was about. I highly doubt that she wanted to watch because she was INTO scat -- possible but less likely. @OP: I really don't agree with the general stereotype of all men 'needing' sex as a 'basic need' and all women 'not really needing it that much'. Not too long ago, I was in a relationship with a guy who truly did NOT need it -- I needed it far more than he did. That's partly why it ended. Reading these forums, I've come across quite a few cases resembling my own as well, in which the woman has a far higher sex drive. Admittedly, however, there does seem to be a greater number of cases which are the opposite... but not by THAT much.
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 @Taylor: I would highly suspect that the girl was merely curious as well -- that video certainly achieved much...uh.. 'fame' and renown especially among high school and college kids, so most likely she would've heard her friends talking/laughing about it and wondered what it was about. I highly doubt that she wanted to watch because she was INTO scat -- possible but less likely. I agree with you here, Elswyth. I am sure her friends peaked her curiosity. But the point is that porn is everywhere in our culture, creeping even into the minds of our most innocent. The other point I wanted to make with that example is that there are various types of porn, some more disgusting than others, but, nonetheless, disgusting. What I dislike the most about porn is it takes what should be the most loving act between an man and a woman and turns it into something sordid. I've come across quite a few cases resembling my own as well, in which the woman has a far higher sex drive. Admittedly, however, there does seem to be a greater number of cases which are the opposite... but not by THAT much. I think alot of men just don't want to admit or accept that women have sex drives as strong as theirs. If they define themselves by their sex drive, who are they if our sex drives are as strong as theirs? And I think men want their girlfriends/wives to have unsatiable sex drives WITH THEM, but don't even want to consider the possibility that their women have sex drives when they aren't around. Ridiculous thinking. It's an ego thing.
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Today, there are countless websites geared towards embarassing husbands and giving the notion that most wives would rather have someone else physically besides their husbands. But, you see, pyroguy, women have felt this way for years AND STILL DO. Check out the thread on this forum by Brulee, agonizing over thoughts that her husband desires other women. She is just one of millions of women dealing with men whose lustful desires are turning their heads away from their wives/girlfriends. This problem didn't start with Grandpa and it didn't end with Grandpa. Men in relationships who lust after other women have ALWAYS existed. The only difference now is women don't have to put up with it unless they want to. women are willing participants. They probably cater to guys who are into that sort of thing, but it's still degrading. Even those sites that are not supposed to be that way, still end up getting their embarassing shots in. I can provide you a list if you wish to see them. I agree with you here, pyroguy. If there were no women willing to participate, the only porn men would find on the internet or in magazines would be gay porn. But, truly, I do not blame the men or the women who participate in porn videos or pose for porn magazines. I BLAME THE CONSUMER. If there wasn't a market, there would be no porn. Strip clubs is another great example. The behavior at some male strip clubs is not to be believed. A couple of years back I posted here with a few clips from some male strip shows, and the silence from female readers was deafening. It was great stuff, making out with the guys, feeling their dicks, and simulating sex acts. I'm pretty sure I saw some rings on fingers in some of these clips. Did it ever occur to you that these videos were made to create a fantasy that gives a man the impression he has the power to seduce a married woman...steal her from her husband. I don't think these videos were made to empower married women and embarrass their husbands. They were made for men fantasizing about having sex with a married woman. Hey, you look at it as "men did it, so we shouldn't be surprised". Mayb so, and I guess men did start it(I'll address that in another post), but i'm just setting the record straight here. Porn can degrade both if you look at it that way, but to be honest, I don't see any porn that has the husband having sex with other women, all the while telling the wife how hot the girl is, how small her tits are , and she doesn't do for him what this hot young girl does. And I agree with you again, that porn degrades everyone. Yet the money continues to pour into the industry in the name of "entertainment" and justified as "freedom of speech." I wonder what our forefathers would have thought seeing their wives or daughters in a porn video? Also, you ask about what sex means to men and how they can have sex with the wife to show love and then do the same thing with some girl they hardly know. Well, the same way today's woman will. They separate love from sex. There may be a few women who can separate sex from love, but more often than not, they become emotionally attached if the sex continues. I also think women are more discriminatory when it comes to sex. A man can put a paper bag over a woman's head and have sex with her; but women don't do that. There would be absolutely no motivation for sex whatsoever. One sex has meaning, and the other is just an act. Funny, I get it , and I don't get it, myself. I appreciate that you have given this some thought and replied to it. I'm still left scratching my head, though. How the sex act itself could hold such profound meaning in one instant and no meaning in the next instant. Perhaps that is why we women want so desperately to SEE the emotional connection. If we see the emotional connection with you, it reassures us that the sex we are having with you is far different from the sex you have with hookers and strippers. There is no wife or girlfriend on the face of this earth that wants to be thought of or treated in the same way as a hooker or stripper...the "you are doing to me what you did to that hooker/stripper' kind of thought. How do you men see it as two different things. Just can't wrap my head around that. The scary thing for men is that it seems more and more women are assuming that "separation of sex and love" position more and more This should give you some clarity as to what women have had to endure for centuries. YES, it is scary, especially for women who notoriously open their hearts to men in such a vulnerable way not really knowing 100% if the sex means something to the man or not. You men have an easier time of separating sex from love and so I would venture to say you should have an easier time dealing with women who can also separate the two. They seem to want "relationship and secure man", and then the hot guy they fantasize about. This is sort of an insult to a man without intentionally trying to do so. But isn't this exactly what men do..and have done for centuries? Women have been insulted by this dynamic for generations. The question is why was it allowed to continue when everyone knew the injury is was doing..and is still doing? Maybe in some ways it's good men are feeling what women felt for centuries. Maybe if men are feeling it too, both genders can get on the same page and DO SOMETHING about it. Lilke I said, I think most men are wired to want to be relevant sexually. Knowing that your woman wants a relationship with you, but may want to have sex with someone else can be devestating, or troublesome. We are wired that way. When that is not present, I'd argue that we are not so gung-ho about the rest of the relationship, regardless of what women may think of how great it is. Pyro, women feel the same way. It's devestating loving a man knowing he may desire another woman, despite our efforts to be as desireable as we can be. Check out Brulee's post. She sums it up very well. Some men tell women their desire for another woman "has nothing to do with them." Bull---t. It's insulting, just like it would be if a woman told her husband she desired another man. No man or woman whose spouse desires another person is going to be gung-ho about the rest of the relationship. This is not a gender-specific feeling. It's realted to the fact that most men have a more difficult time with a wife's phyisical affair, and women have a worse time with a husbands emotional affair. See the corrolation? Yes, I do see the correlation. I think men are very territorial when it comes to their wives and their bodies. They want to know their wives bodies are reserved and preserved for them only. Women, on the other hand, because we value that emotional connection so much, concentrate on the heart of the man. We want to know his heart is reserved for us and us alone. But if your man wants to give his love to another woman by having sex with her, we feel like we have lost his heart. We feel uttely threatened. And we do take it personally.
pyroguy Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Yup, you're right, and I guess I'm guilty as charged too. We want a sexual wife, but cringe if it includes another man. Another man being the key phrase there. You termed it "while they're not there". Even know we know intelectually that they will be attracted to other men, the thought of them wanting them over us is tough-unless you are a swinger. But, being an evolved man, I realize that she will notice others, have a drive while I'm not there, but hope she doesn't lust over them constantly. Afterall, I'm not chopped liver, and can also get other female attention too. I think women today are like that too. Like I mentioned before. They seem to want to separate love from sex much more, and I see plenty of women who don't want the really hot guy because THEY don't feel comfortable, they'll have to worry about him and other girls, and maybe they just like knowing that they can get a more attractive male, and the husband cannot do the same. Maybe it's a power or control thing.
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Porn and strip clubs are to men what romance novels, vibrators and Ricky Martin or whatever male pop singer women are drooling over these days. It is strictly a fantasy and going to the nudie bar is way for men to bond and hang out together. Any healthy man takes it no further and if he does then he has a problem. Cheating is wrong as well but women are just as bad as men are and this is nothing new. It's just talked about more. You may think WWJD but everybody is not a christian or a believer in religion. You have your right to your religious beliefs but don't try to force others to live up to them. Not into Ricky Martin but I doubt he shakes a naked penis in front of a woman while she half-orgasms. He'd have to charge alot more for those concerts I would guess. And I just don't see how reading any book can possibly compare to live bodies taunting men already motivated to get aroused. Vibrator. Don't know. Never even held one, so can't compare the experience. They're plastic, aren't they..perhaps similar to some of the body parts on some of those strippers, yes? Again, I don't see how a vibrator can compare to a full grown woman's half naked body gyrating a few inches from a man's crotch, can you, really? You say a healthy man would not take it any further. I will bet there are alot of men whose friends would call him gay if he DIDN't take it further. Who knows..but if what you say is true, there must be alot of unhealthy men out there. My husband and I went to an upscale bar to hear a live band a few months ago. We watched a female patron make her way around a table full of men giving them lap dances. She was fully clothed, albeit, in tiny white shorts. Every single man had his hands all over her azz, boobs and between her legs. This was not even a strip club and she wasn't even a stripper. Maybe we will have to overhaul the healthcare system in this country to provide treatment for these "unhealthy" men.
sxyNYCcpl Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 What I dislike the most about porn is it takes what should be the most loving act between an man and a woman and turns it into something sordid. I would say it is the attitude of the observer that determines if something is loving, sordid, or otherwise.
sxyNYCcpl Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 So then how does the physical act of sexual intercourse mean "love" and "not love" at the same time? You are right, of course, the physical act of sexual intercourse is the same. What you are forgetting are the emotional connotations. Sex is not love, and love is not sex, but sometimes they are intertwined. There is a difference between "making love" and just plain f**king for fun, even if they appear identical to the casual viewer. I don't know that I speak for all men, but I want both.
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 I would say it is the attitude of the observer that determines if something is loving, sordid, or otherwise. well, I've only seen one porn video in my life. It was 2 "jailers" in a women's prison. One of the female prisoners was begging the jailers for food and water. They tell her no food or water until she complies with their requests. They proceed to have sex with her doggie style despite her protests. They leave the jail cell chuckling while she whimpers in the corner with bruises on her arms and legs. Please tell me what kind of attitude would a person have to have to find that "loving." I only heard about the "two girls and a cup" porn video and read about it after my neighbor girl tried to access it on my computer. Two women groping each other, defacating in a cup, eating it, and then vomiting in each other's mouths. Again, please tell me what kind of an attitude would a person have to have to find this "loving."
sxyNYCcpl Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 My husband and I went to an upscale bar to hear a live band a few months ago. We watched a female patron make her way around a table full of men giving them lap dances. She was fully clothed, albeit, in tiny white shorts. Every single man had his hands all over her azz, boobs and between her legs. This was not even a strip club and she wasn't even a stripper. What you witnessed was a woman who has decided that she gets to decide how to deal with her sexuality and not some backwards societal standard that "good girls don't". That she is going to embrace and celebrate her sexuality, rather than keep it bottled up under conditions that others have dictated to her. And I believe it's happening more and more and will continue to do so. It's interesting in reading some of the debates and back and forth's that happen on a board like this, much of the time the theme is men are bunch of pigs and woman are just prudes. My theory is that our natural sexual desires and instincts are not so different between men and women, but because of historical precedent, our message to girls and women has always been "you better not do it, and if for some reason you do, remember that you don't enjoy it!", and that has resulted in woman who have repressed relationships with their own sexuality causing a rift. That said, because I believe that the repression message is being rejected by more and more people as we continue to evolve as a society, I think over time that rift will slowly heal as men and women learn to celebrate their sexuality instead of intentionally denying it. We'll see.
audrey_1 Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 I love sex but if no woman is available it is just as easy to masterbate. The problem is that sex is a big way of how a man feels loved in a relationship and when a woman cuts it off it is obvious there are issues on her part. When a woman cuts him off a man wonders what the hell is wrong. But what happens if the MAN cuts the woman off?!
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 You are right, of course, the physical act of sexual intercourse is the same. What you are forgetting are the emotional connotations. Sex is not love, and love is not sex, but sometimes they are intertwined. There is a difference between "making love" and just plain f**king for fun, even if they appear identical to the casual viewer. I don't know that I speak for all men, but I want both. Many male posters in sexless marriage scream on this forum saying sex is what they need to feel loved. They do see sex as love. They aren't screaming for some "f----" fun. Yet if they don't get the "love", they threaten to go out and get it elsewhere. What is they are going out to get....the love they need or the "f---- fun." Oh, I am not forgetting abouth the emotional connection. Most women have that connection when they have sex. It's men that forget about it when they have sex. It's not just the "casual observer" who confuses a man's love making with his "f--- fun" sex. Oftentimes it's the very woman who the man is having sex with. She can't tell which kind of sex he's having with her. Sometimes he lies about it...tells her he loves her, has sex with her, then ditches her. I know of men who have been in relationships for more than a year, professing love, and then ended the relationship saying, "I only kept her around for sex." What kind of sex would that be? Please explain. Sometimes I wonder if men,themselves, know what kind of sex they are actually having. How do you men use the same ACT to express something so important and meaningful as love; and then use the same ACT to have some meaningless "f---" fun. It really makes no logical sense. And you men are supposed to be the logical ones. How do you expect women to feel knowing you "f---" your wives like you "f---" a skanky hooker. How would you feel if your wife told you she used to "f--" some man-whore at the bar every weekend before you came along...and now she wants to "f--" you the same way? Would that make you feel loved and honored?
Woggle Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 But what happens if the MAN cuts the woman off?! How often does that happen? Women tend to fall out of love and reject men on a whim while if a man falls out of love with a woman he must have a very good reason. I know that sounds sexist but men usually don't just stop being attracted to a woman all of a sudden.
taylor Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 What you witnessed was a woman who has decided that she gets to decide how to deal with her sexuality and not some backwards societal standard that "good girls don't". That she is going to embrace and celebrate her sexuality, rather than keep it bottled up under conditions that others have dictated to her. And I believe it's happening more and more and will continue to do so. If your daughter came home and told you she got drunk and let 7 strange men rub her between the legs and squeeze her breasts while they all laughed and drank, would you pat your daughter on the back, embrace her, and be proud that she was celebrating her sexuality. OMG, this was my laugh for the day:laugh::laugh:
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