Don't know how to break the cycle

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Great suggestion! I want to buy a bunch of new clothes over the next few months to upgrade my appearance. I could buy from a number of different stores and ask for lots of opinions. I'll always make sure there is a young 20s or 30s attractive (to me) woman working there. Then I could ask questions about cologne, a subject which I know almost nothing about. I might actually like shopping for once

 

I could do this when shopping for other things too. It could give me a lot of practice talking with women.

 

The self esteem is up and down and is typically far more down on weekends. When I am happy, which is gradually more and more often, I know people like to be around me. I'm working really hard to improve this.

 

I teach in a college, but the people in the classes are about 15 years younger than me. I do get practice interacting with people, but obviosly not dating prospects or even people my age. I am a well liked teacher and that helps with the self esteem and in dealing with many types of personalities. I am generally very calm when I teach, as opposed to how intense I can be at some other times.

I'm a self proclaimed shopping guru its my love its my Passion I do it oh so well have been told that actually lol...

 

My advice when hitting the stores if you in the states this is just make sure you don't go many of the real teeny bop shops like in the mall there just tacky for any one over 21 most of them IMO.

 

For older 30ish guys Macy's offer some nice upscale lines and usually have nice staff as a bonus. For just casual wear old navy is OK again just watch the teeny bop factor tho.

 

If you want a fun Cotton candy 99 cent shopping day experience try walmart but don't make it the bulk of your wardrobe of course. That place is always a bonus cause you can get milk there as well if needed lol.

 

 

Oh and another thing I don't know your budget being a collage teacher your prob not short of cash. But anyways don't feel bad to look in the clearance racks nothing wrong with a bargain.

 

Far as Cologne my advice is try Aspen its amazing best of luck and welcome to the wonderful world of retail therapy!

[39388]

SO you're like superman during the week at work and clark kent on the weekends? lol.

 

The confidence you feel in your comfort zone? Apply it to your social life.

 

For sure a bit of a shopping spree will help. Women in those stores working on sales and commission will LOVE a chance to run and back forth bringing you clothes and giving you advice.

 

You overthink this so much. Start recognizing the positive interactions that take place instead of placing emphasis on the what ISN'T going right for you. This may sound dumb- but I have this obsession when driving about red lights. I think red lights are out to get me.... so all I focus on is every red light I hit and I'm like "what the ****- why am I always hitting the red lights???" I did an experiment one day and tallied my red light to green light ratio.... they were about equal- but all I was noticing was the red lights.

 

I felt like the universe was toying with me... but in reality, I just wasn't paying any attention to those green lights. You post, and I notice you hit many green lights as well- but you are stuck on the red ones.

 

Take this next week and take notation of all the positive things that transpire- including the interactions inside the classroom. You think teaching is easy? Being a well liked teacher is a role anyone can step into??? Come on.

 

Tomorrow is Saturday my friend. Why not start tomorrow with the shopping spree. What's stopping you.

 

Teaching is your comfort zone- you have skills and personality that you apply when you teach. Stop thinking it's different outside the classroom because it's not. I'm sure you were nervous when you started teaching- but you grew into your confidence. The same can and will happen in your social environment.

 

Green lights my friend. Physically document your "green light" experiences on a piece of paper (or here) at the end of each day this coming week.

No red light acknowledgements allowed.

That Superman/Clark Kent alalogy really does apply to me in a way. Need my cape to last two more days, Saturday and Sunday!

 

I was very nervous the first day of teaching, literally afraid I wouldn't make it through the hour, but now I can walk in there and teach just about anything in my area of expertise with little to no preparation.

 

Ok, green lights only. All red lights change to green anyway.

 

Tomorrow I start my shopping.

[D-Lish]

That Superman/Clark Kent alalogy really does apply to me in a way. Need my cape to last two more days, Saturday and Sunday!

 

I was very nervous the first day of teaching, literally afraid I wouldn't make it through the hour, but now I can walk in there and teach just about anything in my area of expertise with little to no preparation.

 

Ok, green lights only. All red lights change to green anyway.

 

Tomorrow I start my shopping.

 

Then tomorrow is a new start.

 

That's the attitude- why wait?

 

Teaching those first couple classes? Not much different than life.

It's true- it's really true.

 

Stop trying so hard and sweating and overthinking so much.

Honestly- how many super hot young girls are in your class? You talk to them right? Teach them, guide them, give them advice? Look them in the eye? Why is anything different on the weekend? (they just better not be 15)

 

Think of everyone as your student. They are just another person.

You have to start accepting your intellect as your asset. Seriously- after your teens... it's the smart dudes that are the real captain of the football team. I'm being serious.

 

I like metaphors eh?

[39388]

For older 30ish guys Macy's offer some nice upscale lines and usually have nice staff as a bonus. For just casual wear old navy is OK again just watch the teeny bop factor tho.

 

If you want a fun Cotton candy 99 cent shopping day experience try walmart but don't make it the bulk of your wardrobe of course. That place is always a bonus cause you can get milk there as well if needed lol.

 

Far as Cologne my advice is try Aspen its amazing best of luck and welcome to the wonderful world of retail therapy!

I live in a big city, so I have many options. Almost all national chains are here. Macy's is an option and I could get some items at a Wal-Mart or other big box store. There are many more expensive stores too, but I don't want to overspend. I have a decent budget, but not a gigantic one. No hundred dollar shirts, unless the saleswoman can prove to me that wearing it will guarantee me a date lol.

 

Trying to get a male to like shopping for clothes is hard, but I think I'll enjoy this type of shopping, especially since I will look for females to help!

[Phateless]

D-Lish is dead-on, as usual. Btw, read my original post in this thread, I gave you the same suggestion.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2062238&postcount=20

 

 

I would honestly avoid Wal-Mart and Target, etc, because the clothes just don't fit nearly as well as clothes from Macy's or Nordstrom or Express. Fit is almost more important than style. If it doesn't fit your body correctly to complement your physique, it's a waste of money.

 

A lot of men wear their clothes a size too big. I'm 5'11, 170 lbs, and I wear medium shirts. I can pull off a large, but it looks a little dumpy. Mediums fit me spot-on and make me look sexy.

[D-Lish]

D-Lish is dead-on, as usual. Btw, read my original post in this thread, I gave you the same suggestion.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2062238&postcount=20

 

 

I would honestly avoid Wal-Mart and Target, etc, because the clothes just don't fit nearly as well as clothes from Macy's or Nordstrom or Express. Fit is almost more important than style. If it doesn't fit your body correctly to complement your physique, it's a waste of money.

 

A lot of men wear their clothes a size too big. I'm 5'11, 170 lbs, and I wear medium shirts. I can pull off a large, but it looks a little dumpy. Mediums fit me spot-on and make me look sexy.

 

But you would have gone on wearing larger shirts until someone said something right!!!!???

 

That's what I did for a long while- I was a stylist, and the biggest obstacle with guys was getting them to wear things that fit- instead of wearing them too big.

 

No Target- No Wall Mart- NO WAY. Go to a mall, look at the mannequins in thw window- when you see something you like, go into that store and ask for some help giving you a "similar" yet custom look.

 

People may slag it- but American Eagle (probably your Abercrombie) is very cool. They have good casual looks. Weekend looks. Not overly expensive at all. Don't department store- go smaller- you'll get the attention and a cheaper but cooler look. Trust me.

 

If you lived closer to me I'd take you out myself!

 

Do it tomorrow- come back and tell us about it.

cheers,

D

[39388]

Teaching those first couple classes? Not much different than life.

It's true- it's really true.

 

Stop trying so hard and sweating and overthinking so much.

 

Think of everyone as your student. They are just another person.

 

You have to start accepting your intellect as your asset. Seriously- after your teens... it's the smart dudes that are the real captain of the football team. I'm being serious.

 

I like metaphors eh?

 

But you would have gone on wearing larger shirts until someone said something right!!!!???

 

That's what I did for a long while- I was a stylist, and the biggest obstacle with guys was getting them to wear things that fit- instead of wearing them too big.

 

No Target- No Wall Mart- NO WAY. Go to a mall, look at the mannequins in thw window- when you see something you like, go into that store and ask for some help giving you a "similar" yet custom look.

 

People may slag it- but American Eagle (probably your Abercrombie) is very cool. They have good casual looks. Weekend looks. Not overly expensive at all. Don't department store- go smaller- you'll get the attention and a cheaper but cooler look. Trust me.

 

If you lived closer to me I'd take you out myself!

 

Do it tomorrow- come back and tell us about it.

cheers,

D

The "real" Captain of the football team in my mid 30s. I like the sound of that. You do have so many great metaphors!

 

I have this feeling some of what I now wear may be a little big. I'll need a nice woman with a nice smile to tell me how the clothes fit. I have all the stores listed nearby and will not go to the big boxes.

 

Any stores you give are almost certainly in my city. What's cool is I'm there for two purposes, to get a new look and talk to women. Multitasking

[39388]

D-Lish is dead-on, as usual. Btw, read my original post in this thread, I gave you the same suggestion.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2062238&postcount=20

If a male and female give me the same advice, you can't get closer to certainty of it being correct!

[clv0116]

I am saying hello some of the time. Other times I get so nervous I can't get the words out of my mouth. I'm almost constantly *very* self conscious about my appearance.

 

It's like I want the conversation so badly that I fall apart and get nervous.

 

Well if it helps, in my experience women will notice the nervousness and lack of confidence more than your appearance most of the time.

 

 

 

I've made a decision I will never give up on this, even on tough days.

 

That's the key; eventually you will become more accustomed to leading off, and the fact that you got rejected and didn't die will condition you to fear the potential downside a lot less.

 

Chin up.

[39388]

I looked at some clothes today, but only made it to the department store. I didn't buy anything, but got some ideas. No young females seemed to work there out of all the people I saw. I'll be going shopping again tomorrow when I should have more time.

 

I completed an EHarmony profile only to get rejected. I'm really not bothered by it and happy I tried. I think I'll try again soon, but I don't want to put all my hopes in online dating. I'll just use it as one component of finding a woman.

 

I won't be giving up. My confidence is improving little by little.

 

I'll post another update soon.

[D-Lish]

I looked at some clothes today, but only made it to the department store. I didn't buy anything, but got some ideas. No young females seemed to work there out of all the people I saw. I'll be going shopping again tomorrow when I should have more time.

 

I completed an EHarmony profile only to get rejected. I'm really not bothered by it and happy I tried. I think I'll try again soon, but I don't want to put all my hopes in online dating. I'll just use it as one component of finding a woman.

 

I won't be giving up. My confidence is improving little by little.

 

I'll post another update soon.

 

You filled out an E-Harmony profile and E-harmony rejected it?

 

No- you won't find cute youngish girls in the box stores.... and it's not their job to help you out anyway. Only the perfume/cologne girls are posied to help.

 

You are in your 30's? Do the American Eagle/Abercrombie thing.

It's stylish and age appropriate. You don't even have to approach the sales people- they will approach you. If guys ask... just say you're okay, just lookin'...lol.

 

Just look at the mannequins- when you see a look you like, go into the store and get them to fix you up.

 

Also, Phatless read that book he keeps talking about- maybe that will work for you as well!

 

The best times to shop are when the mall isn't busy. During the week, mid day.... or right after work. Weekends might cut down on your attention time with salespeople.

[39388]

You filled out an E-Harmony profile and E-harmony rejected it?

 

No- you won't find cute youngish girls in the box stores.... and it's not their job to help you out anyway. Only the perfume/cologne girls are posied to help.

 

You are in your 30's? Do the American Eagle/Abercrombie thing.

It's stylish and age appropriate. You don't even have to approach the sales people- they will approach you. If guys ask... just say you're okay, just lookin'...lol.

 

Just look at the mannequins- when you see a look you like, go into the store and get them to fix you up.

 

Also, Phatless read that book he keeps talking about- maybe that will work for you as well!

 

The best times to shop are when the mall isn't busy. During the week, mid day.... or right after work. Weekends might cut down on your attention time with salespeople.

Yeah, that's exactly what I did. EHarmony said that about 20% are rejected, which I knew going in. I didn't get mad though No need for me to take it personally. I think once I build up more confience I will try again and hopefully have better answers.

 

I'm in my 30s. I'll definitely do Amercrombie and stores like that tomorrow and will try to work it so a woman helps. That is a great idea to look at the mannequins. Never thought about that.

 

I'm about to order the book Phateless suggested. If there is a technique I'm not sure I should use, I could always get opinions here.

[D-Lish]

What are their reasons for rejecting someone???

I didn't know they did that! Do they think you're not serious enough or something? What kind of questions do they ask?

 

Tomorrow is Monday- a good day to shop!

 

Yes, looking at mannequins is important when you are a guy shopping alone and you don't know where to start. If you see a look you think is cool- get them to put it together for you.

 

Just say to the salesperson- "You know what? I really like the clothes on that mannequin- can you help me put something together?"

 

Also- you could tell the sales girl you have a date and want to get a good look. Girls go nuts for that kind of stuff. Firstly- saying you have a date says "I'm dateable".... But most women eat that stuff up and will anxious and happy to help you out.

 

It all starts with a good pair of jeans... Just so you know!

 

I think it would be cool to do a TV show where they do a guy make over- and give him hints and guidance on how to flirt and meet women.

The male version of TLC's "What not to wear"... except they do a makeover AND teach techniques.... Then send him into a social setting and let the guys loose on the ladies.

[39388]

What are their reasons for rejecting someone???

I didn't know they did that! Do they think you're not serious enough or something? What kind of questions do they ask?

 

Tomorrow is Monday- a good day to shop!

 

Yes, looking at mannequins is important when you are a guy shopping alone and you don't know where to start. If you see a look you think is cool- get them to put it together for you.

 

Just say to the salesperson- "You know what? I really like the clothes on that mannequin- can you help me put something together?"

 

Also- you could tell the sales girl you have a date and want to get a good look. Girls go nuts for that kind of stuff. Firstly- saying you have a date says "I'm dateable".... But most women eat that stuff up and will anxious and happy to help you out.

 

It all starts with a good pair of jeans... Just so you know!

 

I think it would be cool to do a TV show where they do a guy make over- and give him hints and guidance on how to flirt and meet women.

The male version of TLC's "What not to wear"... except they do a makeover AND teach techniques.... Then send him into a social setting and let the guys loose on the ladies.

EH never tells you the reason and it has caused some controversy. There are over 400 questions and most have you rate personality chacteristics from 1-7. They ask all about your various beliefs and behaviors. I've read some articles about the rejection and there do seem to be a number of reasons. If they think your answers are inconsistent they may throw you out. If you are not confident enough, you might get thrown out, which could very well have been the "problem" with mine. There are several other reasons that people think are likely reason for rejection too. I'll just try again at some point and see what happens.

 

I'll keep everything you said in mind when I go to the store tomorrow. I think what I wear now is for the most part kind of boring. Not horrible, but not exciting either. Hopefully they can find something more exciting. The kind of thing that I'd be proud to wear and the saleswoman will know what colors go well together.

 

I'd watch that show, though I don't know if I'd want to be on it. Having a million people or whatever number see everything I do would be too much stress. I could use all of that help, but without the cameras!

[Phateless]

D-Lish is absolutely right, I would have gone on with baggy clothes until someone said something.

 

39388, I'm so glad you are pushing forward on this. You are well on your way.

[IcemanJB]

Ok, I'm going to go a little on the harsh side with my reply. Well first off, good for you for recognizing this and trying to fix it.

 

You're over 6 feet, well-off financially, and sound like a pretty sharp guy. I claim the problem lies within; specifically the confidence. I mean I'm a 5'6" pale dude and I've had friends say to me: "how the hell did you date that girl?" if she was real purdy. Getting a girl to like you has nothing (well, maybe a little) to do with looks.

 

Boost that confidence. Others have said small things like new clothes help. Do it! Just drop a pair, get yourself out there, accept every invitation that even has the slightest chance of meeting women. Just be your funny, charming self and you should have no problems; you seem well off.

[clv0116]

I completed an EHarmony profile only to get rejected.

 

Don't waste time with online dating, for you in the place you're at now, it's just a crutch to prevent you from actually interacting with people.

 

You know what to do; execute execute execute.

[39388]

It all starts with a good pair of jeans... Just so you know!

 

You are in your 30's? Do the American Eagle/Abercrombie thing.

 

You are very smart D-Lish! I went to an American Eagle and got a pair of jeans. They didn't have my size in the store so they are mailing them to me. I'm started now! I next need a shirt to go with them.

 

I found two young women to help me, but felt nervous around them. I need to keep practicing, right? The more women I'm around the less nervous I will be.

 

I'm going to keep doing this for awhile and get a new look and hopefully some new confidence around women.

[Dirkus]

 

Also- you could tell the sales girl you have a date and want to get a good look. Girls go nuts for that kind of stuff. Firstly- saying you have a date says "I'm dateable".... But most women eat that stuff up and will anxious and happy to help you out.

 

Try this move: Say you're going on a date with a girl ask to be hooked-up, like D-Lish suggests, and tell her you'll come back and tell her how it went.

Then ask her if she has a coffee break coming up so you can tell her about it.

 

 

I think it would be cool to do a TV show where they do a guy make over- and give him hints and guidance on how to flirt and meet women.

The male version of TLC's "What not to wear"... except they do a makeover AND teach techniques.... Then send him into a social setting and let the guys loose on the ladies.

 

Hey D-Lish,

I work in reality television maybe I'll pitch this idea.

[39388]

Much of the problem certainly is with confidence. Getting new clothes probably will help in terms of looks, but may well help even more with confidence. I get nervous approching women that are in the age range that I would date. I'm going to practice and see how that helps. If it was already easy for me, I'd have no reason to even ask since I'd already be doing it. Maybe one day it will be easy and hopefully soon!

 

I don't see a reason not to try all different methods. I'll see what works. Online dating can only add more potential women into the mix.

[Phateless]

Try this move: Say you're going on a date with a girl ask to be hooked-up, like D-Lish suggests, and tell her you'll come back and tell her how it went.

Then ask her if she has a coffee break coming up so you can tell her about it.

 

 

 

 

Hey D-Lish,

I work in reality television maybe I'll pitch this idea.

 

VH1, "The Pickup Artist." It's already been done and the show is very entertaining to watch.

[Phateless]

Much of the problem certainly is with confidence. Getting new clothes probably will help in terms of looks, but may well help even more with confidence. I get nervous approching women that are in the age range that I would date. I'm going to practice and see how that helps. If it was already easy for me, I'd have no reason to even ask since I'd already be doing it. Maybe one day it will be easy and hopefully soon!

 

I don't see a reason not to try all different methods. I'll see what works. Online dating can only add more potential women into the mix.

 

You're doing well, and you hit on an important point - you have to get used to women. That's why swing and salsa really helped me. You become accustomed to being surrounded by and interacting with beautiful women. After a time, beauty alone just doesn't impress or intimidate you anymore.

[IcemanJB]

The nervousness of talking to a pretty girl that you've just met will never completely go away. It's just a matter of how you deal with it and present yourself. I always get butterflies if a pretty girl smiles and says hi while walking by, and I don't imagine that will ever stop.

 

Now I don't consider myself super good at approaching and picking women up, but I have learned some things. You're making strides and putting forth the effort to do this, so as long as you DON'T do the following, you're probably in good shape:

 

-look at the floor, or break eye contact first

-speak in a non-confident, squeeky way - they say it's "7% what you say, and 93% HOW you say it"

-compliment her way too much early on (this is a biggie - don't do it)

-give her questions where it's easy for her to turn you down - like "so do you want to get coffee sometime?" instead phrase it like this: "you seem like a cool person, and I'd love for you to join me over coffee" etc.

-keep talking when you should just get her number (or not) and leave

-huge goofy smile, haha

 

If you're confident inside, you won't have any of the problems listed above. But as others have said, sometimes you have to fake it until you make it. I still do to some extent - mainly because I KNOW after that first difficult encounter, I have no problems making things progress.

 

You seem like you're well on your way, let us know how things go.

[Phateless]

The nervousness of talking to a pretty girl that you've just met will never completely go away. It's just a matter of how you deal with it and present yourself. I always get butterflies if a pretty girl smiles and says hi while walking by, and I don't imagine that will ever stop.

 

Now I don't consider myself super good at approaching and picking women up, but I have learned some things. You're making strides and putting forth the effort to do this, so as long as you DON'T do the following, you're probably in good shape:

 

-look at the floor, or break eye contact first

-speak in a non-confident, squeeky way - they say it's "7% what you say, and 93% HOW you say it"

-compliment her way too much early on (this is a biggie - don't do it)

-give her questions where it's easy for her to turn you down - like "so do you want to get coffee sometime?" instead phrase it like this: "you seem like a cool person, and I'd love for you to join me over coffee" etc.

-keep talking when you should just get her number (or not) and leave

-huge goofy smile, haha

 

If you're confident inside, you won't have any of the problems listed above. But as others have said, sometimes you have to fake it until you make it. I still do to some extent - mainly because I KNOW after that first difficult encounter, I have no problems making things progress.

 

You seem like you're well on your way, let us know how things go.

 

All solid advice, every bit of it.

[39388]

so as long as you DON'T do the following, you're probably in good shape:

 

-look at the floor, or break eye contact first

-speak in a non-confident, squeeky way - they say it's "7% what you say, and 93% HOW you say it"

-compliment her way too much early on (this is a biggie - don't do it)

-give her questions where it's easy for her to turn you down - like "so do you want to get coffee sometime?" instead phrase it like this: "you seem like a cool person, and I'd love for you to join me over coffee" etc.

-keep talking when you should just get her number (or not) and leave

-huge goofy smile, haha

 

If you're confident inside, you won't have any of the problems listed above.

I've messed up on nearly all of the above many times in the past, but that does not mean I have to mess up tomorrow. I feel more confidence than I have in awhile so I'll see over the next days how much that helps. I think starting to buy some new clothes and starting to exercise is gradually helping my confidence.