Don't know how to break the cycle

[frantei2]

Hello. I am fairly new here. I think you are headed in the right direction. Just a little rough around the edges as the saying goes. I sacrificed dating for about eight years. Then I got back in and slowly reentered the dating scene. I think you are right to avoid anger. I suggest getting some advice from good self help books or places online. Just remember you will find a right women to be with. We live in a ever changing society. You are quality person. And it is simply a matter of timing. Another bit of quick advice that works. If you want to meet that certain woman. First impressions do count. After you get to know each other things can adjust. SO if you want a women to enjoy your company. Become a more full you. Mingle. And breath. Resparate. And grow. A nice guy can win. Maybe you will not be first. But definitely not last.

[amerikajin]

I was not out a whole lot this weekend. The weather has been horrible which is why for the most part I stayed home. I talk briefly to a few people each day when I was out, but not a whole lot of opportunity to do little more than a hello. I will be out and about significantly more this coming week and will report on how it goes.

 

I'm gonna advise a slightly different route. I think you need to look at the bigger picture. I sense that you're generally a shy person and perhaps somewhat lacking in confidence in general in terms of your relationships with people. Do you have a lot of male friends? Do you socialize with a group of friends on a regular basis? Do you have friends away from work? Do you have social activities and a social life away from work or school? If not, you need to branch out. I don't know if you should spend all your time focusing on just women although I definitely think you should at least spend some of the time focusing on women.

 

I actually can relate to your situation a lot. I didn't date much at all in high school and didn't even have a girlfriend until I was about 19. I didn't have my first real relationship until I was 25. My relationships with the opposite sex were still somewhat awkward even after that. I don't think I really began to 'get it' with women until I was in my late 20s and early 30s -- not that long ago in fact. Not to brag but now I probably score about as easily as anyone (when I'm single).

 

When I look back on my 'evolution' I realize that a lot of it had nothing to do with learning how to pick up women. A lot of this development also had to do with understanding how to relate to people in general. I relate well to my dude friends and I have become a lot more social and outgoing as a result. I've become more relaxed and developed better overall social skills. All of that has made me a more confident person. And confidence is what helps with women. When women see a confident person who has friends, who has the respect of his peers, who is obviously comfortable being himself and not out to impress anyone with a bunch of internet pick up crap, that women is far more likely to be interested in you. I think you can develop these skills in as little as 3 to 6 months though it might take longer. But just work on building better self confidence and being more social and outgoing. You don't have to be a big comedian or anything, but just invite a co-worker out for a drink after work or go hang out with one of your neighbors whenever he's having a barbecue. Little things like that. Never be afraid to change. It's never too late to change.

[jadelil25]

I understand how you feel and I know that it is hard when you are shy.

 

Have you tried internet dating? It seems to be the in thing to do now days and it does actually work.

 

I am a shy person my self, my friends are all in relationships and im not confident about approaching people in bars and they also normally are just after one thing. Also join clubs related to things that you are interested in. I.e badmington. Golf or a gym or something like that.

 

The good thing about internet dating is it is normally people who are in the same boat who use the website. People who are shy or have never dated or have had enough of other ways of dating. You can search for people that share simular interests and find out about them before actually meeting them in person. It is a good way to build confidence and meet new people and also get practice.

 

Dont worry if people dont reply back, it does happen but just hold your head up high and keep going.

 

If you find people that you are interested in then just send them a casual email saying hi and talk about one on the interests which you share in common. If they dont reply back it is their loss not yours and always remember that.

 

Plenty of fish.com, Match.com, Datingdirect.com and be2 are all quite good websites.

 

Please dont give up. Im sure that all will be fine and you will meet someone. I know people who are a lot older and have made relationships work.

 

I am now in my second relationship from interent dating. The first one was not working out but it lasted 18 months and this one is quite new. I have also made a couple of good friends from the site. I also have friends who have got good relationships from the sites. My current boyfriend is 26 and this is his first relationship. So you are not alone.

 

I hope this helps and if you want any more advice or to ask any questions please feel free to ask me.

 

Good luck. Im sure that all will be fine!

[39388]

First impressions do count. After you get to know each other things can adjust. SO if you want a women to enjoy your company. Become a more full you. Mingle. And breath. Resparate. And grow. A nice guy can win. Maybe you will not be first. But definitely not last.

Thanks for the encouragement! I am working on changing myself now so I can give better first impressions in several ways that were suggested to me in this thread. I hope a nice guy can win.

[39388]

When I look back on my 'evolution' I realize that a lot of it had nothing to do with learning how to pick up women. A lot of this development also had to do with understanding how to relate to people in general. I relate well to my dude friends and I have become a lot more social and outgoing as a result. I've become more relaxed and developed better overall social skills. All of that has made me a more confident person. And confidence is what helps with women. When women see a confident person who has friends, who has the respect of his peers, who is obviously comfortable being himself and not out to impress anyone with a bunch of internet pick up crap, that women is far more likely to be interested in you. I think you can develop these skills in as little as 3 to 6 months though it might take longer. But just work on building better self confidence and being more social and outgoing. You don't have to be a big comedian or anything, but just invite a co-worker out for a drink after work or go hang out with one of your neighbors whenever he's having a barbecue. Little things like that. Never be afraid to change. It's never too late to change.

I think you really hit it on the head. I am often not relaxed, though I can be very relaxed at times.

 

The majority of my interactions with people are when someone needs something from me. Just scheduling a simple get together with friends is often like pulling teeth and I'm afraid of the phrase "I'm too busy" which I hear constantly. I get so flustered and ask when else is a good time and get nothing or maybe many months from now. I do very few soical things and rarely do I get invited to a group outing or a barbeque or something similar. Usually many months are in between. There is sometimes stress on the friendships I have over this and some have broken over it. It is almost always me who wants to do things with them more than they with me. It may have something to do that they often have 20x the friends I do, but I can't figure it out.

 

I want more friends of either sex, but now I feel I especially want more male friends to hang out with. I really enjoy hanging out with the guys and it is so rare I get to do that. I know The more friends I get, the easier it is to make new ones. I've never been at a threshold where it is anything but very difficult.

 

I'm going to keep trying though and try new techniques. Maybe even try some that are less than comfortable for me.

[39388]

Have you tried internet dating? It seems to be the in thing to do now days and it does actually work.

 

Dont worry if people dont reply back, it does happen but just hold your head up high and keep going.

 

If you find people that you are interested in then just send them a casual email saying hi and talk about one on the interests which you share in common. If they dont reply back it is their loss not yours and always remember that.

 

Plenty of fish.com, Match.com, Datingdirect.com and be2 are all quite good websites.

 

I hope this helps and if you want any more advice or to ask any questions please feel free to ask me.

 

Good luck. Im sure that all will be fine!

I have a profile part way done now for an internet dating site. I got a bit overwhelmed with trying to describe myself so I put it on hold. I do want to complete it and see what happens.

 

Some say it is very difficult for males on intenet dating because there are so many more of them, but I don't know if this true. I'll have to put up my profile and over time I will find out.

[clv0116]

For a person whose socially capable online dating is a great tool, but in your case I'm afraid you might be tempted to use it as a crutch. I'd really just advise you to get out and talk to people. Take up a hobby, join a club, take dancing lessons, whatever.

[39388]

This guy really wants to help you.

I'm working on the advice you gave me.

 

The person you are referring to may well want to help me, but I don't have time for those who choose to personally attack me.

[39388]

I don't know what to make of the "pick up artist" advice. Many men say the techniques help them attract women while many women are very negative about it.

 

I am very confused. I want to find a good woman, but some of what I've read about are things that I would never ever do.

[clv0116]

I don't know what to make of the "pick up artist" advice. Many men say the techniques help them attract women while many women are very negative about it.

 

I am very confused. I want to find a good woman, but some of what I've read about are things that I would never ever do.

 

First of all, holding grudges is childish.

 

I don't believe a lot of that PUA crap honestly, but a few simple things that apply to life are true. For instance, people often say one thing and do another. Pay attention to what they do. If at first you don't succeed, try again. And again. Simple life habits that work and seem to have been adopted by the PUA community.

 

On the other hand the whole deal of insulting the girl you're interested in and stuff like that is just *******ry. Even if it works, and it very well might, I don't want to be that guy.

 

 

For you, just go out and talk to people, be more social. After you get that nailed you can see where you are and proceed. Seriously, when you see a woman you like the look of, just say anything.

 

"Hi, I'm Mr zipcode and I've been trying to think of something creative to start a conversation with you about."

 

 

Or:

 

"I'd really like to talk with you a little"

[39388]

This is going to take a lot of practice in talking to women. It's been hard to even get a hello in this week. I'll keep trying.

[turnshyness]

Somewhere in this string, it was mentioned that there's a book called "The Game" by Neil Strauss.

 

He actually has a workbook that will guide you. He has challenges and exercises for you everyday. You might want to check it out. The book is called "Rules of the Game". Check it out.

 

This is going to take a lot of practice in talking to women. It's been hard to even get a hello in this week. I'll keep trying.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Hey 39388 I don't really have any rock solid advice who dose but you seam like a decent guy from what Ive seen of your posts don't lose that!

 

Nice guys can finish 1st let that show threw in real life and I'm sure you will do fine best of luck Spanks....

[39388]

Somewhere in this string, it was mentioned that there's a book called "The Game" by Neil Strauss.

 

He actually has a workbook that will guide you. He has challenges and exercises for you everyday. You might want to check it out. The book is called "Rules of the Game". Check it out.

A few people have suggested this book and I'll take a look. If I learn a few things that is good. That does not mean I will blindly take all the advice or follow all the techniques. IOnly the ones I feel ok doing.

[39388]

Hey 39388 I don't really have any rock solid advice who dose but you seam like a decent guy from what Ive seen of your posts don't lose that!

 

Nice guys can finish 1st let that show threw in real life and I'm sure you will do fine best of luck Spanks....

An encouraging post like this gives me a smile, a smile which I will take out into the world!

[turnshyness]

Right I understand. I've actually done some, not all, of the exercises. It's actually nice because it forced me to do it - I had to journalize/field report the results, troubleshoot and redo it again. Take a shot at it. It'll be a good learning experience.

 

A few people have suggested this book and I'll take a look. If I learn a few things that is good. That does not mean I will blindly take all the advice or follow all the techniques. IOnly the ones I feel ok doing.

[Phateless]

The thing about all that PUA stuff is that it's built upon basic social principles that a lot of men don't inherently understand. I'm guessing these are the things you need help with. There are certain things you don't agree with and wouldn't try, but remember what I said about pushing your comfort zone? Sometimes you need to try something specifically because you wouldn't usually do it. The main benefit of studying game is that you will learn some basic principles about human interaction, and more specifically, how to interact with women. You don't have to use lines and routines, but there are certain little tactics that will really help you.

 

You're a smart guy. Don't discount it until you've read and learned about it thoroughly.

 

And for the others who are saying "don't insult women," etc... Don't you hate it when people take some tiny little part of something out of context and use it to make an untrue point? If you haven't read the book, don't tell him about how it doesn't work. There is no part that advocates insulting women. There is a part that can advocate a backhanded compliment if a woman is being a bitch to you in the first place. Example, "nice nails. are they real? oh... well they look nice anyway."

 

Mostly it just teaches you how to flirt, and how NOT to screw it up by seeming too needy or misreadings signs.

 

I do agree that memorizing routines is a bit much, but studying the rules behind those routines will teach you a lot. That material explained certain things to me that my whole life I never understood! Now that I get it, I am completely myself, yet I know how to charm a woman that I want to get to know.

 

I don't feel useless and invisible anymore. I feel like a man who deserves to get to know the women he wants to. I never use memorized lines or routines, but I have learned how to handle certain situations.

[39388]

Right I understand. I've actually done some, not all, of the exercises. It's actually nice because it forced me to do it - I had to journalize/field report the results, troubleshoot and redo it again. Take a shot at it. It'll be a good learning experience.

Just about willing to try anything now. This past week, for the most part I can't even get a hello from people.

[39388]

You're a smart guy. Don't discount it until you've read and learned about it thoroughly.

 

Mostly it just teaches you how to flirt, and how NOT to screw it up by seeming too needy or misreadings signs.

After this last week where virtually no one would even say hello to me, I'm ready to give the book a try. This week I kept wanting to start conversations with people, but either got nervous or when I said hello I didn't even get a hello back.

 

Even if I only try some of the things in there, I can't do worse than I did this last week.

[D-Lish]

Just about willing to try anything now. This past week, for the most part I can't even get a hello from people.

 

Are you saying hello first?

[39388]

Are you saying hello first?

I am saying hello some of the time. Other times I get so nervous I can't get the words out of my mouth. I'm almost constantly *very* self conscious about my appearance.

 

It's like I want the conversation so badly that I fall apart and get nervous.

 

I've made a decision I will never give up on this, even on tough days.

[Phateless]

I am saying hello some of the time. Other times I get so nervous I can't get the words out of my mouth. I'm almost constantly *very* self conscious about my appearance.

 

It's like I want the conversation so badly that I fall apart and get nervous.

 

I've made a decision I will never give up on this, even on tough days.

 

Yes! Now it's gonna start happening. It will take time, but you will get there. I LITERALLY used to be exactly as you described, only 2 years ago...

 

Honestly, some of the things that you think are the least likely to work might be the most important for you to learn. Some of the things you don't want to try might be the missing link. Remember, you're pushing your boundaries.

[D-Lish]

I am saying hello some of the time. Other times I get so nervous I can't get the words out of my mouth. I'm almost constantly *very* self conscious about my appearance.

 

It's like I want the conversation so badly that I fall apart and get nervous.

 

I've made a decision I will never give up on this, even on tough days.

 

What about the suggestion of talking to women who are already in that customer service role where talking to you is a part of their job? It's a perfect way to test the waters.

 

Go to a department store to pick out cologne- just wander in front of men's fragrances (make sure you pick the counter with the girl behind it and not the gay guy)... And spend some time sampling and chatting. She's a sales person- she's going to chat you up. She gets a sale, you get practice and some new cologne.

 

Start with easy steps and build.

 

It's obvious your self esteem suffers. It's important to stay positive with your thoughts. Never play "I can't" statements in your head.

 

What about where you work- do you work with women?

[39388]

What about the suggestion of talking to women who are already in that customer service role where talking to you is a part of their job? It's a perfect way to test the waters.

 

Go to a department store to pick out cologne- just wander in front of men's fragrances (make sure you pick the counter with the girl behind it and not the gay guy)... And spend some time sampling and chatting. She's a sales person- she's going to chat you up. She gets a sale, you get practice and some new cologne.

 

Start with easy steps and build.

 

It's obvious your self esteem suffers. It's important to stay positive with your thoughts. Never play "I can't" statements in your head.

 

What about where you work- do you work with women?

Great suggestion! I want to buy a bunch of new clothes over the next few months to upgrade my appearance. I could buy from a number of different stores and ask for lots of opinions. I'll always make sure there is a young 20s or 30s attractive (to me) woman working there. Then I could ask questions about cologne, a subject which I know almost nothing about. I might actually like shopping for once

 

I could do this when shopping for other things too. It could give me a lot of practice talking with women.

 

The self esteem is up and down and is typically far more down on weekends. When I am happy, which is gradually more and more often, I know people like to be around me. I'm working really hard to improve this.

 

I teach in a college, but the people in the classes are about 15 years younger than me. I do get practice interacting with people, but obviosly not dating prospects or even people my age. I am a well liked teacher and that helps with the self esteem and in dealing with many types of personalities. I am generally very calm when I teach, as opposed to how intense I can be at some other times.

[D-Lish]

Great suggestion! I want to buy a bunch of new clothes over the next few months to upgrade my appearance. I could buy from a number of different stores and ask for lots of opinions. I'll always make sure there is a young 20s or 30s attractive (to me) woman working there. Then I could ask questions about cologne, a subject which I know almost nothing about. I might actually like shopping for once

 

I could do this when shopping for other things too. It could give me a lot of practice talking with women.

 

The self esteem is up and down and is typically far more down on weekends. When I am happy, which is gradually more and more often, I know people like to be around me. I'm working really hard to improve this.

 

I teach in a college, but the people in the classes are about 15 years younger than me. I do get practice interacting with people, but obviosly not dating prospects or even people my age. I am a well liked teacher and that helps with the self esteem and in dealing with many types of personalities. I am generally very calm when I teach, as opposed to how intense I can be at some other times.

 

SO you're like superman during the week at work and clark kent on the weekends? lol.

 

The confidence you feel in your comfort zone? Apply it to your social life.

 

For sure a bit of a shopping spree will help. Women in those stores working on sales and commission will LOVE a chance to run and back forth bringing you clothes and giving you advice.

 

You overthink this so much. Start recognizing the positive interactions that take place instead of placing emphasis on the what ISN'T going right for you. This may sound dumb- but I have this obsession when driving about red lights. I think red lights are out to get me.... so all I focus on is every red light I hit and I'm like "what the ****- why am I always hitting the red lights???" I did an experiment one day and tallied my red light to green light ratio.... they were about equal- but all I was noticing was the red lights.

 

I felt like the universe was toying with me... but in reality, I just wasn't paying any attention to those green lights. You post, and I notice you hit many green lights as well- but you are stuck on the red ones.

 

Take this next week and take notation of all the positive things that transpire- including the interactions inside the classroom. You think teaching is easy? Being a well liked teacher is a role anyone can step into??? Come on.

 

Tomorrow is Saturday my friend. Why not start tomorrow with the shopping spree. What's stopping you.

 

Teaching is your comfort zone- you have skills and personality that you apply when you teach. Stop thinking it's different outside the classroom because it's not. I'm sure you were nervous when you started teaching- but you grew into your confidence. The same can and will happen in your social environment.

 

Green lights my friend. Physically document your "green light" experiences on a piece of paper (or here) at the end of each day this coming week.

No red light acknowledgements allowed.