blind_otter Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Whenever we have words or a disagreement, my S/O tends to retreat and withdraw. Most of the time he usually just goes to sleep. While this is probably better than, say, having a screaming argument, it still makes me feel upset. I don't know why - maybe because he withdraws and I feel like I'm frustrated. I, OTOH, cannot sleep and mostly I can't think much about anything else until the issue is resolved, in my head, or I forget about it. By the time he is willing to talk about the issue, usually after he has taken a nap or slept through the night, most of the time either I have forgotten what the initial problem was (I have "momnesia" most of the time, I admit it) or it's gotten to the point where I feel silly bringing the issue back up. So although we do talk about things, it is a cursory sort of discussion and there is never any true resolution. What can I do to make our discussions more meaningful? Should I write a list? Make notes as to why I am upset? It seems so petty to keep track of things like that, and I sort of feel like I should keep equal track of the good things he does, too, if I do that. It's not like we have many major issues any more. Like the most recent one was that we had a disagreement because I wanted him to put a sweater on the baby and he didn't see any reason to because he was walking around in his underwear and he didn't think the baby would be cold. It was stupid, but I feel like it has ballooned into this big thing in my head because I've been stewing about it for the past 4 hours while S/O has been sleeping peacefully.
carhill Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 IMO, better to do it immediately and more calmly. Identify the base emotion and communicate it. Is your BF an avoider? Someone who avoids emotional situations and/or conflict? If so, good luck to you. Being married to one has about destroyed me. IME, avoiders rarely remember the good things (you say to them) but never forget the "bad things" (the conflict). Hence, everything is "bad". The corollary is you're critical and nagging. Reality is irrelevant. Perception rules the day. Seperate domiciles are required :D
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 BO, no offense but it sounds petty to me. I think when he has the baby you should back off. Many women try to control everything when it comes to parenting and it kind of leaves the father feeling like they're not as important. Allow him his time with his son and don't try to control everything. Normally I'd say the "silent treatment" is emotionally abusive and I'd have a big problem with it. But I'm not really getting the sense that he's giving you the silent treatment here. Even you said it's "kind of" a form of it. I think he's just avoiding having a petty argument maybe. "Stewing" for 4 hours over the baby not having a sweater on? That's silly. Is the baby ok? Work on stepping back when he has the baby. Choose your battles wisely. By the time he is willing to talk about the issue, usually after he has taken a nap or slept through the night, most of the time either I have forgotten what the initial problem was (I have "momnesia" most of the time, I admit it) or it's gotten to the point where I feel silly bringing the issue back up. If the above is really the case then maybe it wasn't really worth bringing up in the first place? Just a thought.
carhill Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Was the example just the most recent one? IME, when one is imbued with the mindset over a long period of time, even the little things (like baby sweaters) sets one off. OP, true or no? For me, when the little, inconsequential cr@p starts to become a battle I can consciously see I'm picking, albeit unwisely, it's a clear sign I'm overwhelmed with past behaviors and conflicts. Does that describe your feelings in a meaningful way?
Author blind_otter Posted February 22, 2009 Author Posted February 22, 2009 It may not be worth it to even discuss the issue, I guess you are right. I mentioned to him the other day that I think I may be blowing the petty stuff out of proportion because I haven't really forgiven him for the really bad things he has done in the past - especially with his drinking. He hasn't had any alcohol since halloween of last year, and he has been making really great progress...but I am still resentful for all that we've been through. Or rather, in my mind, everything he's put me through. And I do have to learn to "let go and let Dad" as they say. I am a bit high strung in that respect. Yes, this was the most recent issue. And when I think about it more, it wasn't so much about the sweater, but about how he dealt with it AFTER we had words about the sweater. I was mad and I wanted to talk about it, but he just went into the spare bedroom and closed the door and put a blanket over his face and went to sleep. He does this when we argue. A few times he has tried talking to me right when I get upset, but he ends up putting a blanket over his face and falling asleep in the middle of the discussion! He is a champion sleeper, I admit. He can lay down on asphalt with a shirt under his head and go to sleep with the sun in his face. I think part of the problem is that I have, for no apparent reason, recently had difficulties verbalizing my feelings. He will ask me why I am upset and I simply cannot explain it. I guess it may be lack of sleep for the past 7 months. haha.
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 It might very well be lack of sleep. Are you eating right? I remember being quite cranky with H in the early days of motherhood. We bickered and had petty arguments...quite out of character for us. It was a tough time in some ways. You MUST take breaks from your son. Take them whenever and wherever you can. When he has him, you should let them be and go do something for yourself. Maybe YOU should be taking that nap! And try not to hold past transgressions over his head. That's a relationship killer. You're moving forward now. Give him credit for that, BO.
Author blind_otter Posted February 22, 2009 Author Posted February 22, 2009 Thanks, Touche. It is a tough time in some respects. He's teething now, so that is what is causing some sleepless times. I remember when he was a newborn I felt like I could totally handle going without sleep. I did it for weeks on end. Now, though, when he has a bad night I feel so out of it and TIRED. Maybe because he sleeps so much less during the day and he's started dropping a nap every few days. And keeping up with him is harder now that he can get where he wants to go. S/O has his own way of doing things. Sometimes I get a little overprotective. It's good that we have different parenting styles in some respects, so that we can balance each other out. I feel better just talking about this. Thanks!! I don't eat as well as I should, I admit it. I tend to eat most of my calories at night after the baby is asleep. During the day I can get so busy that I end up eating a banana for breakfast at 2pm. Being hungry can make me cranky without me even knowing it.
voldigicam Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Maybe it shows up like this: Whatever he does isn't good enough for you. Why fight this battle, they'll be another one in 10 minutes. And ten minutes after that. Whatever he does, you want to micromanage, at least sometimes. It's the interaction that's the problem. Your post suggests you're driving the interaction.
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 You're welcome, BO. OMG, the teething days were tough. I remember! It's funny because at the time you're in the thick of it all it seems like it will never end. But try to enjoy this tough period because the day will come when you'll yearn for his baby days. It really does go by sooo fast. I know it doesn't feel like it now though. Just as I thought - you're not eating or sleeping as you should. Please try. Landon will pick up on your mood you know. And it won't help your relationship either if you're irritable and cranky. You can do better. How about eating easy things like granola bars, or nuts, cereal? Don't wait until 2 to eat. And yes, it's great to have different parenting styles in a way. Fathers bring things to the table that mothers don't. His role is very, very important. I'm glad you feel better venting about it. That's good. Is that the baby in your avatar? Wow, if that's him he's absolutely adorable...one of the cutest babies I've ever seen (after ours of course;) ). I mean it. He's soooo cute, I could eat him with a spoon.
2sunny Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 IME it's more of a passive aggressive and selfish move on his part. he figure by avoiding it - the issue will go away... knowing he still has you sitting on it with worry. as long as you worry about it - then he can go on acting like it hasn't happened and the issue can be avoided. all the while he can ignore it for his own happiness. he's not dealing with the reality of the situation. he doesn't want to face what the real issue is here (his drinking) so he is perfectly happy to make it about "other" little things (like the sweater) because then the bigger issue (drinking) gets avoided for now. SO - when it's about the sweater - he's happy it's NOT about the drinking. the bottom line is - the arguments aren't REALLY about the sweater. as long as it is about the sweater - he can sleep. you can't sleep because you know it has nothing to do with the sweater. does that make sense?
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 How is it about the drinking when he stopped 4 months ago? You should be so proud of him for that, BO. The guy is walking the walk now.
2sunny Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 How is it about the drinking when he stopped 4 months ago? You should be so proud of him for that, BO. The guy is walking the walk now. it may be the resentment from the unresolved issues that got avoided while he was drinking and her fear that things may return to his old ways. when things are left unresolved - the feelings are still unsettled until he is ready to face the past and move forward... this is where she'll begin to trust that he's not intending to revisit his old behaviors.
voldigicam Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 "It's not like we have many major issues any more. Like the most recent one was that we had a disagreement because I wanted him to put a sweater on the baby and he didn't see any reason to because he was walking around in his underwear and he didn't think the baby would be cold. It was stupid, but I feel like it has ballooned into this big thing in my head because I've been stewing about it for the past 4 hours while S/O has been sleeping peacefully." You have been stewing. You need to get over your problem with stewing before you can work with him to resolve any avoidance problem he has. You need to handle your problem, which is the problem you posted about. The problem with you stewing. You blew up about a minor problem. Your baby will tell you when your baby doesn't have enough clothes on. Your baby, like all the other babies, comes equipped with a call mommy for help system. He's not drinking. He's working very hard to do this, I'm sure. And you stew over little stuff. You might simply step back into gratitude that he's stayed with you, committed himself to making things better. Rather than moving the bar just past where he is all the time. That gotcha game always every single time backfires.
Author blind_otter Posted February 22, 2009 Author Posted February 22, 2009 I am proud of him for quitting the alcohol (so far). I can't help but think that this is just temporary, though. No matter how much I hope it is a permanent change. It's like there's a part of me that I hold back. Maybe I always will. Because I'm afraid to make an ass out of myself all over again, like I've done the past almost 4 years now. I think that's why, no matter how happy we are, I'm not completely "in" the relationship. Protectively. One day at a time, sure, but if I can't be sure of forever, then why invest myself completely? I'm not saying that it makes sense, I'm just sort of saying how I feel right now. I do think, though, that he is avoidant in many respects. I think that his alcohol abuse was just evidence of that fact. I know, we all know, alcohol abuse is never "THE problem". It's a poor coping skill that is proof that there IS a problem. Usually that problem manifests itself more clearly after the alcohol abuse is discontinued. I faced that problem, myself, when I quit a couple of years ago. When he woke up we were OK for about half an hour. He wanted to know if I was still mad and I honestly said I wasn't. But I tentatively broached the subject of why we were initially in disagreement, and it blew up all over again. That was totally NOT my intention, and I wasn't even upset anymore. I just wanted to make sure that everything was ok, and I was sort of feeling things out to see if they really were, and they weren't. Sometimes life is difficult. But I know that if it weren't difficult at certain points, I would not be able to appreciate the good parts.
carhill Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Do you get the feeling that everything is hunky dory and there is little frustration when everything is going his way? IME, alcohol is a medication for something else. I have friends who medicate themselves with alcohol rather than face the issues in their marriages. It's an escape. The underlying dynamic remains. Unless it's resolved, all the medication and/or avoidance in the world won't change it. My unpopular viewpoint is that a man is responsible for engaging when there is conflict. To do less is to patronize and trivialize the perspective of his partner. I hold the same view regarding women, but we're talking about an avoidant man here. OP, what do you think you can do to make these conflicts more of a support and challenge dynamic. I hear the challenge, but what about the support? MC helped me to better communicate that aspect.
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 I don't know why people have to complicate things. If things are good now, enjoy it. The fact of the matter is that there are NEVER any guarantees about anything. If it's not about drinking, it could be about loyalty or about any other number of issues. Why drive yourself crazy? You're going to have to get along with him no matter what anyway...whether as a couple or not, since you now have this baby you're both responsible for. Enjoy what you have TODAY and stop worrying about the future so much. You can drive yourself crazy with that kind of thing. B-R-E-A-T-H-E, RELAAAXXXX! Have faith! Tell your guy that you're proud of him. Give him an incentive to keep pleasing you. And yeah, he may slip up sometime. What's the worst thing that can happen if that happens? Ask yourself that.
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 I think that's why, no matter how happy we are, I'm not completely "in" the relationship. Protectively. One day at a time, sure, but if I can't be sure of forever, then why invest myself completely? Why the half measures? Be IN or be OUT, BO. No one, no matter WHAT the circumstance, can EVER be sure of forever. If everyone thought like you, no one would ever be completely "in." See what I mean?
carhill Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 OP, the above was the primary cause of the breakdown of our M. Due to her past, my wife wasn't fully invested. She always held back. Conversely, having wanted to be married and have a family for some time, I was fully invested. That disparity of commitment and investment led to resentment in myself over time. I communicated it poorly, but understand now that communication has little relevance to the essence of her perspective. My actions stemming from the hurt only served to validate her perspective. A vicious circle. Hope you find a better path
Enema Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Sounds like he knows you're overreacting to everything because of your hormones and if he doesn't engage you, you'll realize you're being silly and will forget / drop it. Also sounds like you're asking for advice on how to engage / prolong a fight.
johan Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Most of the messages that need to be delivered, should be delivered during the argument. And I'm sure they were, whether it was verbal or otherwise. I don't think there is anything to gain by discussing things later. Women like to do this, because they've bought into the now-not-so-pop-culture idea that more communication is always better. From my perspective, lots of talking never solved anything. If you're pissed, then express it on the spot. Don't worry about being accurate or thorough. And when you're no longer pissed, have enough mercy on your partner to let the topic go.
Author blind_otter Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 Do you get the feeling that everything is hunky dory and there is little frustration when everything is going his way? Well, yeah, but it's actually more the case that when everything is going MY way, everything is hunky dory. I think that most of the time he really does bend over backwards to make me happy and though I reciprocate, I do think he does a bit more bending than I do. OP, what do you think you can do to make these conflicts more of a support and challenge dynamic. I hear the challenge, but what about the support? MC helped me to better communicate that aspect. That's what my question really was, I think - it was poorly worded, as always. But you know, I think some of the other posters are right. I am hormonal, and sleep deprived. I do all the nighttime parenting for the baby because I have the boobs, ha ha, and 99% of the time that's all that baby wants when he is wakeful or fussy at night. So I get really tired, especially when my son is teething (like last night when he woke about 6 or 7 times between the hours of 4am-7am. This morning, though, my S/O took the baby for me as soon as he woke fully, at his usual 7am time. He went and got the baby dressed and played with him and made coffee and he let me sleep an extra hour and I felt SO much better and less emotional after that extra 70 minutes of sleep. Today I actually feel like a human being who is capable of interacting with the public. Yesterday I was kind of a hot mess. After 70 minutes, though, baby wanted to nurse so S/O brought him to me in bed and made me a cup of coffee while I nursed. He also did 2 loads of laundry for me. It was nice that he woke up extra early and did all that before he went to work today. He tends to apologize by doing chores or home improvement projects and I can't say I'm too upset by that. I, OTOH, tend to apologize with sex and cooking. But he doesn't seem to mind that at all! I agree with Johan and Touche also - if anything, I overanalyze and talk things to death. There is a bit of a navel gazer in all of us, I just tend to indulge in that a little too much. I spend several hours a day immobilized with a nursing infant, so my thoughts will wander. But I am glad I started this thread. It is good to get different perspectives, most especially when you are inside your own head a bit too much.
carhill Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Glad today is a good day. Sleep deprivation is a killer. D@mn near killed me. Another tool I learned in MC is to respect the validity of the past and to live in the present; go with the tone and dynamic which exists now. Evaluate the relationship in today's terms and with today's feelings. Overall, would you say today's feelings and the relationship tone are positive? Go with that. I think you know what I mean. Invest in the positive.
JackJack Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Hey BO, seems like I remember you mentioning this kind of behavior before. Its one thing for someone feel the need to withdrawal at times regardless of what the reason might be, but different if this is their method of how the choose to deal/not deal with things on just about whatever is said to them. I think it boils down to what you feel you can and can not tolerate. If this is how he reacts by withdrawing every time you say something no matter how you say it, and he doesn't want to hear, then perhaps this is a learned behavior and one that keeps him where he wants to be. If so, and he isn't willing to learn new ways of communication then expect that to probably continue. Anyway I hope this is not the case.
Author blind_otter Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 I think it boils down to what you feel you can and can not tolerate. If this is how he reacts by withdrawing every time you say something no matter how you say it, and he doesn't want to hear, then perhaps this is a learned behavior and one that keeps him where he wants to be. If so, and he isn't willing to learn new ways of communication then expect that to probably continue. Anyway I hope this is not the case. Well this is the key for me, I think. I can be pretty harsh, verbally, according to my S/O. What I consider brevity, he considers rude. That was something we discussed yesterday after he took his older son back down to S. FL to his mom's house.
JackJack Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Well this is the key for me, I think. I can be pretty harsh, verbally, according to my S/O. What I consider brevity, he considers rude. That was something we discussed yesterday after he took his older son back down to S. FL to his mom's house. I think that is my concern here....because sometimes its not always what one says or the way its said (sometimes it is too) but sometimes it can be the way its perceived. If he ALWAYS perceives the things you say as an attack or you being critical, When you know you're not, then that is on him, not you. And, then that's just his way of justifying his behavior and putting the blame off on you.
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