Nikki Sahagin Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Firstly this is not based on loveshack but on my own life experience and what I have seen and known around me. In school, most of my friend came from single-parent families. The dad's either showed up periodically or disapeared entirely. Some had children all over the place but yet had been in serious relationship with the mother of their child. I've grown up supposedly in perfect suburbia but yet a lot of the marriages are false, hollow and complete shams. My mum is very close to pretty much the whole neighbourhood and many of them confide in her. There is cheating, violence, abuse in quite a lot of these supposedly happy families and it really hit me the other day how if perfect surburbia hides these kind of relationships, then where do the positive ones exist? It's seriously like a revolutionary road kind of thing... I'm sure there are some who are happily in relationships but even my own mum and dad who have been together since they are 21....me and my mum are close and she has told me she no longer is 'in love' with my father and in many ways he is disrespectful towards her. But yet my mum says being a mother has fulfilled her and she no longer even feels that need for a relationship because she gets all her love, care and fulfillment from us and her friendships. So I have to ask...why are there so few fulfilling relationships? All the women when they are together, rip the **** out of their husbands but you can tell there is true bitterness and dislike in their voices. It's not loving. Also I don't mean this to literally mean no relationships are functional...but why does it seem to be so few???
OpenBook Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Nikki that is The Question of the Millennium for us humans!! - and the reason why we have established religions, BTW - an attempt to keep us on the straight and narrow, give us goals to be a better person. IMO, as a society we put way too many expectations on marriage. So much so, that there's no way those expectations can be sustained, by anyone. And the facade that so many people present to the outside world... it's all about self-protection. Much like wounded animals - they hide their wounds because if other animals sense that they're wounded, they'll circle in for the kill. Or in the business world - there's no way you can get ahead and advance your station in life if you're always revealing your flaws. I think it boils down to simple human kindness, more than anything else. The functional relationships are ones where the participants are KIND to each other, no matter what happens. In every relationship (no exceptions!) the romance dies after awhile. The very nature of romance precludes it from being sustainable for long periods of time. And then the couple still has to deal with the pressures of everyday life, not to mention the occasional earth-shaking events that hit almost every family at some point. I think every long-term couple goes through it. It's all about how they treat each other through each crisis that comes up... and through each episode of mind-numbing, listless boredom and ennui that inevitably sets in. Not many people are unfailingly kind and considerate of one another. It's extremely difficult to achieve, and most of us humans fail miserably at it. Like you, I could count on one hand the people I know who are actually kind to each other, and others, on a consistent basis. The nature of the beast, I suppose.
Heroic Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Well I have a few ideas... 1. Love is a choice. A choice to share your life and put your partner as your #1 priority. Everything else must come after that. Job, kids, hobbies all have to take a distant second place. 2. People choose a mate on physical attractiveness instead of base compatability. Me and my wife have lots of sex but we talk a lot more. Physically we're both 7's maybe an 8 on a good day (Hey, at 40 that aint bad), but on an emotional level she's a 10. Lets face it when you get old an wrinkly you are not going to get all hot and bothered by your mate on a physical level, without that emotional connection you will just drift apart. 3. Women spend more time fantasizing about wedding dresses than getting prepared for marrriage. I know a co-worker who is spending $30,000 on her daughters wedding. So when the daughter came in I asked her how does he feel about having children, will she work, where do they plan to retire? She had no idea......but she had just picked out $500 worth of doylies and they were very pretty. 4. We have bad role models. TV is fantasy and yet we treat it like reality. I can't think of a single positive depiction of marriage on TV. 5. We live in a disposable society and we treat people that way. People don't invest time in their relationship. Time and commitment builds closeness, clossenessbuilds emotional connection, emotional connection brings a physical conection.
johan Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 It's how people are. They want love and companionship. But finding real compatibility is a crap shoot. It's how it's always been. It wasn't better when marriages were more stable. Those people weren't better at keeping relationships together. They just didn't have nearly as much choice.
movingonandon Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 3. Women spend more time fantasizing about wedding dresses than getting prepared for marrriage. I know a co-worker who is spending $30,000 on her daughters wedding. So when the daughter came in I asked her how does he feel about having children, will she work, where do they plan to retire? She had no idea......but she had just picked out $500 worth of doylies and they were very pretty. Grrrr ! I would have slapped that ho ... She'll bring the same type of attitude into the marriage "Oh, no, but I thought that it'll be an endless Paris vacation!":lmao:
Tony T Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Not many people are unfailingly kind and considerate of one another. It's extremely difficult to achieve, and most of us humans fail miserably at it. Like you, I could count on one hand the people I know who are actually kind to each other, and others, on a consistent basis. The nature of the beast, I suppose. THAT is the most tragically true and unfortunate thing I have ever read anywhere, cyber or otherwise. That two humans can't buckle enough to at least get along...that's two humans who once LOVED EACH OTHER MORE THAN LIFE...and keep a marriage going is beyond comprehension.
Trialbyfire Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Love is never enough. Love dies when trust and/or respect dies. If the relationship is all about me, pretty soon it will be only "me". You have to put something into a relationship, to get something out of it.
Woggle Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Most women in general are just big balls of resentment who will end up hating a man's guts no matter how well he treats her. You can be the best husband and father that ever existed yet she will blame you for every single bout of unhappiness she has. And women wonder why many men would just rather marry some submissive foreign woman.
Touche Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 THAT is the most tragically true and unfortunate thing I have ever read anywhere, cyber or otherwise. That two humans can't buckle enough to at least get along...that's two humans who once LOVED EACH OTHER MORE THAN LIFE...and keep a marriage going is beyond comprehension. Who says that they can't? Why is it beyond comprehension? Have YOU ever tried? It's not about being "unfailingly kind and considerate." People aren't robots. We have our moods. We all make mistakes. No one on this planet is "unfailingly" anything. It's about still loving and accepting those times when your loved one is a little less loveable. THAT'S what it's REALLY about in my world. Because after all, it's easy to love when everything is going great and the person you love is not letting you down in some way. Try still loving that person when things aren't so perfect. Now that's the real test. And yes, it happens all the time.
marlena Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Try still loving that person when things aren't so perfect. Now that's the real test. But isn't that what being "unfailingly kind and considerate" means? A noble goal to want to achieve but like Open Book said not always feasible as the "nature of the beast" so often gets in the way.
movingonandon Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Most women in general are just big balls of resentment who will end up hating a man's guts no matter how well he treats her. You can be the best husband and father that ever existed yet she will blame you for every single bout of unhappiness she has. And women wonder why many men would just rather marry some submissive foreign woman. There is some detachment, sincerity and articulation in Woogle's verdicts that is not ppossible to dismis as misogynism . It's like a doctor providing a diagnosis. Too bad it resonates so deeply with me ,
Woggle Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 There is some detachment, sincerity and articulation in Woogle's verdicts that is not ppossible to dismis as misogynism . It's like a doctor providing a diagnosis. Too bad it resonates so deeply with me , I speak the truth that people in their gut know is right.
Author Nikki Sahagin Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 That's not the truth Woggle. Why are only women resentful? Not all women are resentful?
Woggle Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 That's not the truth Woggle. Why are only women resentful? Not all women are resentful? I am convinced that most women are utterly impossible to please. There are a few women that a man can have a good relationmship with but for most women a man can try and try to make her happy and she will still find fault.
Author Nikki Sahagin Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 I am convinced that most women are utterly impossible to please. There are a few women that a man can have a good relationmship with but for most women a man can try and try to make her happy and she will still find fault. I don't personally believe that. I'm not sure - I can't see from a mans perspective! I find it to be more the other way around! That women seem to have to do 101 things to keep a mans interest.
Woggle Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 I don't personally believe that. I'm not sure - I can't see from a mans perspective! I find it to be more the other way around! That women seem to have to do 101 things to keep a mans interest. For me all a woman has to do is don't nag, don't cheat and appreciate the good things I do and return the favor sometimes. If she can do those three I am set.
Author Nikki Sahagin Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 For me all a woman has to do is don't nag, don't cheat and appreciate the good things I do and return the favor sometimes. If she can do those three I am set. But I see myself as being the same. A lot of women are probably resentful but to say all women are is letting your experiences colour your perceptions of all women. Your truth is not there truth or THE truth. All people to some degree are resentful.
Lizzie60 Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Grrrr ! I would have slapped that ho ... She'll bring the same type of attitude into the marriage "Oh, no, but I thought that it'll be an endless Paris vacation!":lmao: that no 3 made me smile.. and reminded me of.. oh never mind.. 3. Women spend more time fantasizing about wedding dresses than getting prepared for marrriage. I know a co-worker who is spending $30,000 on her daughters wedding. So when the daughter came in I asked her how does he feel about having children, will she work, where do they plan to retire? She had no idea......but she had just picked out $500 worth of doylies and they were very pretty. A lot of women fantasize about the ring, the wedding, the dress, etc.. and do not spend enough time getting to know the person... quite typical.. then they are surprised and play victim when they later become a BS..
pkn06002 Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 You know they have done studies where they show the arranged marriages are actually more successful then the traditional western find your mate ones. Because you parents look for those base compatibilities where individuals look for a sexual partner and you get lucky if you get the other stuff. I for one think that marriage should be harder to enter into. Make is such a chore that you really have to want to get married. Include hours of counseling etc... to make sure the match sticks.
Author Nikki Sahagin Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 RE arranged marriages. It's true that when conducted PROPERLY (not when 12 year old girls are sent off to 40 year old men) they can be very effective because they do match the fundamentals and from that a true love can grow - that doesn't mean the passion, lust or desire will emerge (it may or may not) and I think that depends on whether you mind having it or not. I think many people want marriage to be all things. They want security, the nice house and kids but also passion, desire and excitement. It's hard to have both at least consistently and that is when people who become dissiullusioned or disapointed with this seek affairs. Maybe people do expect too much but it's hard not too in a world where we can seemingly have it all.
65tr6 Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 You know they have done studies where they show the arranged marriages are actually more successful then the traditional western find your mate ones. Because you parents look for those base compatibilities where individuals look for a sexual partner and you get lucky if you get the other stuff. I for one think that marriage should be harder to enter into. Make is such a chore that you really have to want to get married. Include hours of counseling etc... to make sure the match sticks. pkn, I come from one of those.........Arranged marriages are successful BUT then again you have to define what is considered a successful marriage. My parents have been together from the day they got married. They argued at times. My dad screamed at my mom at times and my mom would give it back at times, but then that is how it was around us. They didnt have perfectly fulfilling marriage but then they stayed together. They stayed together for different reasons...Society expects them to stay together for starters. They stayed together because they had low but realistic expectations in a marriage. They stayed together because they were committed to each other. They stayed together for us. I will be forever be thankful to my parents. They did not have greatest marriage but when you start expecting perfection you are setting yourself up for a failure. We put too much emphasis on ourselves and our needs for us to lead a meaningful and long lasting relationship. My dad and I were never that close (as I was to my mom) but one thing I truely appreciate about him is that he always put our interests in front of his own. We put lot of emphasis on our needs such as affection, intimacy. I am not saying that is wrong. It is a good thing. It is just that when it becomes a focal point of our life then we could loose sight of the bigger picture. There was no overt display of affection or intimacy by my parents and there was always that occasional bickering but deep down we knew they always cared, respected, loved each other. A different kind of love. Love that believed in doing things for each other. All of us siblings are very educated and very successful in our careers. And none of us have any personality disorders that I can think of !. My parents are very proud of what we have achieved in life so far. So you tell me, did they have a successful marriage ? Staying together, longterm, it has more benefits than the downside. I am not advocating staying together for the sake of children alone - Though children in my opinion are the biggest beneficiaries. I dont believe in staying in a marriage that has no place for intimacy, affection, respect, love. Nor staying in a marriage where there is abuse. We live in a culture that believes in active dating so you get to know the SO before you are committed and yet there is over 50% of divorce rate. And a stunning 80% or so due to infidilety. Either we give up too easily or readily look outside when things go downhill.
Trialbyfire Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Forgive me for my ignorance, but it's always been my understanding that arranged marriages are based on fiscal compatibility. The woman is the object, the man pays for the object. Or the man and woman come from very wealthy backgrounds and so, it's a way to "bond" the wealth into compatible families. Also, within arranged marriages in different cultures, men have side chippies and in modern times, women also have boy toys. Overall, the arranged marriage is less for the couple and more for the families involved.
65tr6 Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Forgive me for my ignorance, but it's always been my understanding that arranged marriages are based on fiscal compatibility. . fiscal alone is not the criteria..various others too...I dont think there is anything wrong with that. What about e-harmony adopting a 26 dimensions compatibility for matching couples ? How is that very different from what arranged marriages look in terms of compatibility ? I know. You dont consider someone's familiy background when you date...But strangely...here on LS I have seen many posters whose marriage is in trouble, pointing fingers to their SO's previous relationships, or their "broken" family history. The woman is the object, the man pays for the object. Or the man and woman come from very wealthy backgrounds and so, it's a way to "bond" the wealth into compatible families.. Hmmm. Not sure what you mean. Overall, the arranged marriage is less for the couple and more for the families involved. Less for the couple...In what way ? Once they are married, they are on their own to make it work. Yes, they may not have the "in love" attraction to jump start their marital life. In a way, you are bonded with the entire family when you get married. And that in itself acts as a boundary. I started to think that most of the affairs have an element of immaturiy built in it - you need strong boundaries to keep those in place/check. Either via Societal pressures or via strong comradarie - family or friends. That alone wont keep the relationship healthy but can go a long way in policing it. There are times in your marriage, when your relationship is extremely vulnerable and these things comes in handy in preventing a family from being destroyed. Sorry, went off on a tangent there.
Trialbyfire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I understand where you're coming from but arranged marriages aren't my thing. But then, neither is online dating. Regardless, if people are happy having their marriages arranged and remain happy within their arranged marriages, it's all good. My only problem is when people are forced into them, then remain for the "honour" of their family unit, fear of being ostracized or fear for their lives. This is sad.
65tr6 Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Regardless, if people are happy having their marriages arranged and remain happy within their arranged marriages, it's all good. . Happy is relative. You could say more than 50% of the married couple here are unhappy because they end up divorcing. (And I dont think they are happy about divorcing). And same thing applies to couples who got together in an arranged marriage. I dont know if it matters how you got there...though you can argue vehemently on that....arranged or via hollywood movie style....it falls on the couple to commit and sustain the relationship. There is where almost all the marriages fall short of being truely a happy and successful marriage. (yes this includes most arranged marriages too). Not many make it there. Because it takes lot of work and commitment to get there and stay there. Not easy but can be done. So if they do fall short, can they fall short in such a manner as to minimize the impact ? Either continue living in a bad marriage and prey that it gets better or divorce. Unfortunately, divorce is the one that has maximum impact.
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