friends with ex, but something doesn't feel right

[pandagirl]

Lovershackers, I need to knock some sense into me and tell me how it is.

 

I posted about this here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t180376/ but didn't get much feed back. This isn't a second chance at a relationship, but it's one for a friendship.

 

Basically, a guy i dated for one month in May 08 are currently attempting to build a friendship, after our first attempt did not work. We weren't friends before we dated and we didn't talk or see each other much between then and now. We have a lot of chemistry, in the sense we just get along really well.

 

I bumped into him on the street a few weeks ago with his girlfriend. From what he told me, she got a bothered by that way he reacted towards me, but he dismissed it as her being drunk and emotional. I don't think he told her that we had dated.

 

Since then, we have hung out a couple times. It's great when we hang out, comfortable, fun, easy, laughs all around. We can talk about anything. Now here's the part that makes me uneasy: he is in a new relationship with a girl he is crazy about -- we talk openly about their relationship -- but I am 99.9% sure he hasn't told her he sees me.

 

I tried to broach the subject by telling him I'd like to meet her more properly someday soon, and he just sort of avoided the question. Not good.

 

As far as I can tell, there is nothing fishy going on. He is head over heels for her and I am happy for him, and truly just enjoy his company. BUT, I don't want to be some dirty little secret. I've been in this position before, and it's not a good one.

 

What should I do? My gut tells me I am doing something wrong. And why does he even want to be my friend? When you are in a new blissful relationship, why would you pick that time to get reacquainted with an ex?

 

I want to do what's right.

[EasyHeart]

Your instincts are right. Men are not naturally monogamous. If we had a choice, we'd all have a harem. He likes getting attention from you, because it feeds his ego. You're a 'spare', in case anything goes wrong with his current relationship -- he's got you all set up for a rebound.

 

That's my best guess.

[whichwayisup]

Listen to your gut.

 

And why does he even want to be my friend? When you are in a new blissful relationship, why would you pick that time to get reacquainted with an ex?

 

Question is, why do you want to be friends with him again? Since you now know her radar is up and she isn't comfortable with you (she feels you're competition) why even bother trying to make a friendship with him happen? He dismissed her feelings, belittled her and pawned it off as she's an emotional drunk. He's a jerk. Selfish and cruel. He may profess to be in love with her, but he isn't being honest with her at all. SHE picked up on a vibe between you two and has omitted the fact you two dated in the past and you're his ex girlfriend.

 

Walk away..Again, listen to your gut.

[pandagirl]

Your instincts are right. Men are not naturally monogamous. If we had a choice, we'd all have a harem. He likes getting attention from you, because it feeds his ego. You're a 'spare', in case anything goes wrong with his current relationship -- he's got you all set up for a rebound.

 

That's my best guess.

 

I may be feeding his ego, but I don't think he has me set up as a rebound. I know he genuinely likes me as a person. We get along so well. Or maybe I'm naive.

 

I'm just sick of ulterior motives. If he was willing to introduce his gf to me, I'd be more comfortable with the situation. It's like we are hanging out under the pretense that we are *just* friends, which we are, but him not telling his gf about me makes it too shady for me. I really like being his friend, but I'm also not going to enable bad behavior.

 

I guess he just wants his cake and eat it, too? Why even bother though? Why put your relationship at risk?

[pandagirl]

Listen to your gut.

 

Question is, why do you want to be friends with him again? Since you now know her radar is up and she isn't comfortable with you (she feels you're competition) why even bother trying to make a friendship with him happen? He dismissed her feelings, belittled her and pawned it off as she's an emotional drunk. He's a jerk. Selfish and cruel. He may profess to be in love with her, but he isn't being honest with her at all. SHE picked up on a vibe between you two and has omitted the fact you two dated in the past and you're his ex girlfriend.

 

Walk away..Again, listen to your gut.

 

Why do I want to be friends with him? It's complicated. I know that his track record with girls isn't that great. He is often times a jerk. Goes through them like nothing. Basically, we went through something personal when we were dating, and he was great and caring. I think that bonded us, and he was even surprised that he could be so honest and open with me. So, since we have that, and I know that he is good at heart, I guess that's what I see now.

 

HOWEVER, yes -- he is not acting appropriately now. I know he genuinely really likes me as a person and I genuinely like him. We just get each other on a superficial and deeper level. I don't want to lose that. But I hate the lies!! It discounts everything.

[diskey23]

hes 99.9% NOT 'crazy' for his gf. & you guys are NOT 99.9% good 'ol buddies. i think easyheart is right. you might be kind of a spare. as long as you dont get too attached & aren't just holding on hope for him. keep in touch & hang, why not?

[Island Girl]

It is obvious that if his girlfriend knew about the two of you "hanging out" she wouldn't be comfortable with it.

In fact she'd be quite hurt and insecure about it.

 

Put the shoe on the other foot. Would YOU want to be in her shoes? What would you think about an ex-girlfriend "hanging out" with your boyfriend and you not being included?

 

So why would you want be a party to hurting another person?

 

I also think part of being a friend is NOT contributing to potential problems in their romantic relationships.

[carhill]

Knowing the entirety of what you've shared on the matter with this guy, I would balance the value his sensitivity and support regarding one aspect of your life with your overall compatibility with him as a friend. Would you have the same opinion and desire if he wasn't a "jerk" in other ways? IIRC, it was hard for you to form a dispassionate view of this guy when you broke up/stopped dating. IIRC, he was the break-up sex guy, where you had sex after you agreed to break up, right?.

 

Anyway, caution from this corner. Investing friendship emotions sometimes leads to even greater heartache, IME.

[whichwayisup]

Just because you two connected and he helped you through a hard time, got close doesn't change the fact HE IS A JERK. Look how he treats the woman he "loves", his girlfriend. You think he'll always be sweet and nice, respectful towards you?

 

Listen to you gut.

 

Friendship is important with the right person but I think if you're trying to figure him out, what he thinks, if he's truthful with his girlfriend, and how you can fit into his life without her getting upset - IS this guy truly worth it? You have to dig down deep and ask yourself why you're bothering with this guy...I think you still have feelings for him, you may not 'feel' them, but the fact is, you hold this guy in a high reguard and have blinders on because he helped you through a hard time in the past.

[pandagirl]

Knowing the entirety of what you've shared on the matter with this guy, I would balance the value his sensitivity and support regarding one aspect of your life with your overall compatibility with him as a friend. Would you have the same opinion and desire if he wasn't a "jerk" in other ways? IIRC, it was hard for you to form a dispassionate view of this guy when you broke up/stopped dating. IIRC, he was the break-up sex guy, where you had sex after you agreed to break up, right?.

 

Anyway, caution from this corner. Investing friendship emotions sometimes leads to even greater heartache, IME.

 

Yes, this is break-up sex guy, but honestly that hasn't crossed my mind in a long time. It's a weird situation if you weren't in it, so I understand it sounds bad, but it was circumstantial thing and I still feel happy with my decision.

 

We are superficially incredibly compatible and have great chemistry. We are still getting to know each other and it's really fun. We talked about everything from his divorce to having kids to politics and art. Emotionally, I think we are different beasts. I am a giver; he is a self-preservationist. But the two sort of go hand in hand, eh?

 

I also think part of being a friend is NOT contributing to potential problems in their romantic relationships.

 

I agree, but I don't want to be held responsible for his girlfriend's feelings. that's HIS responsibility. All I can do is control my own behavior, which I am processing currently.

 

Just because you two connected and he helped you through a hard time, got close doesn't change the fact HE IS A JERK. Look how he treats the woman he "loves", his girlfriend. You think he'll always be sweet and nice, respectful towards you?

 

Listen to you gut.

 

Friendship is important with the right person but I think if you're trying to figure him out, what he thinks, if he's truthful with his girlfriend, and how you can fit into his life without her getting upset - IS this guy truly worth it? You have to dig down deep and ask yourself why you're bothering with this guy...I think you still have feelings for him, you may not 'feel' them, but the fact is, you hold this guy in a high reguard and have blinders on because he helped you through a hard time in the past.

 

You're right. If push came to shove and he had to save face to his girlfriend, he'd probably lie and drop me like a wet rag.

 

I genuinely believe this guy likes me a lot as a person. I also think I represent something to him that he needs to feel good about himself. It's almost like his girlfriend and I fulfill two different parts of a relationship: me, the friendship and her, the passion. (btw, that's why he broke up with me. He didn't feel head over heel for me.)

 

That being said, is he worth it? No relationship is worth it if it's based on dishonesty or ulterior motives. It's just SO disappointing to me. I was going into this with honest intentions. I think it's difficult for me to comprehend that people would take advantage of me -- the thought just never crosses my mind -- so, it's always a surprise when it happens. I still don't get it though, WHY potentially put your "amazing" relationship at risk by lying??

 

I am better than this situation. Here I am, letting my conscious worry me, while he is out blissfully with his girlfriend, not feeling an ounce of guilt. Ugh. I am just sad/disappointed about the whole thing.

[EasyHeart]

Why do I want to be friends with him? It's complicated. I know that his track record with girls isn't that great. He is often times a jerk. Goes through them like nothing. Basically, we went through something personal when we were dating, and he was great and caring. I think that bonded us, and he was even surprised that he could be so honest and open with me. So, since we have that, and I know that he is good at heart, I guess that's what I see now.

 

I think you've answered your own question right here. If he goes through women like nothing, he needs to stay in contact with lots of them in order to keep the flow steady. And obviously, he had no respect for his current GF or their relationship, or he wouldn't be hanging out with a secret, female friend.

 

Have you heard of borderline personalities? This guy sounds like he may be in that group.

 

I'm going through something similar with my ex (of only two weeks). In a matter of days, she went from wanting to reconcile with me to starting a 'new relationship' with a guy who picked her up in a bar. Now she wants us to 'stay friends'. She says her feelings 'just changed' and she realized we 'just weren't right for each other', but I was her best friend and she could always count on me, so she doesn't want to lose my friendship. Unlike your ex, though, my ex can't wait for me to meet her new BF and said "He's so great! You're really going to like him!", which of course is never, never going to happen.

 

I don't think you have any obligations to the new GF. She's dating a guy who thinks it's okay to secretly hangout with his ex-GF. Frankly, if I was her, I'd want to know that before I got emotionally invested in this guy.

 

It comes down to whether you're comfortable with the situation. Do you really want him as a friend, or are you using this 'friendship' in hopes of it someday become more? It's hard, but you need to be honest with yourself. If you're hoping for more, it's likely that you're going to get hurt at some time in the future.

[whichwayisup]

Panda, you DO have feelings for him but I don't think you're processing it that way.

 

If you were his girlfriend and he had a 'close connection and chemistry' with an ex and still spent alot of one on one time with her, bonding with her etc, I'm sure it would NOT sit well with you.

 

Maybe you're trusting him too much, putting him on a pedistool (pedestool? spelling..lol) and can't see who he truly is all because of your feelings. You see what you want to see, but LOOK at his actions.

[Island Girl]

I agree, but I don't want to be held responsible for his girlfriend's feelings. that's HIS responsibility. All I can do is control my own behavior, which I am processing currently.

 

While you aren't responsible for his girlfriends feelings, you ARE knowingly participating in a betrayal by omission.

 

It is akin to the mistress saying, "I'm not the adulterer. I didn't take any vows with the spouse - he did - so it has nothing to do with me."

 

I am better than this situation. Here I am, letting my conscious worry me, while he is out blissfully with his girlfriend, not feeling an ounce of guilt. Ugh. I am just sad/disappointed about the whole thing.

 

And why should he feel guilty? Because he is betraying her and you know it. You are feeling these feelings of angst about the situation because you know it is wrong. What he is doing is wrong and you do not feel right about being a part of it. (Which shows you have integrity!)

That is why you shouldn't hang out with him and contribute to it.

[pandagirl]

I think you've answered your own question right here. If he goes through women like nothing, he needs to stay in contact with lots of them in order to keep the flow steady. And obviously, he had no respect for his current GF or their relationship, or he wouldn't be hanging out with a secret, female friend.

 

Actually, no. Besides his ex-wife, he doesn't keep in contact with any ex's. I think it's more he is able to move on easily and doesn't see the point of keeping in touch with people he doesn't like anymore.

 

I'm going through something similar with my ex (of only two weeks). In a matter of days, she went from wanting to reconcile with me to starting a 'new relationship' with a guy who picked her up in a bar. Now she wants us to 'stay friends'. She says her feelings 'just changed' and she realized we 'just weren't right for each other', but I was her best friend and she could always count on me, so she doesn't want to lose my friendship. Unlike your ex, though, my ex can't wait for me to meet her new BF and said "He's so great! You're really going to like him!", which of course is never, never going to happen.

 

Ack! She sounds like a piece of work! Yeah, I'm sure you and her new boyfriend would totally hit it off! haha.

 

It comes down to whether you're comfortable with the situation. Do you really want him as a friend, or are you using this 'friendship' in hopes of it someday become more? It's hard, but you need to be honest with yourself. If you're hoping for more, it's likely that you're going to get hurt at some time in the future.

 

No, I don't ever see myself dating him again. I know too much about him and understand we are not compatible in that way, but if I'm honest with myself, there is an aspect of our "Friendship" that isn't completely platonic. As it is right now, we have a standing weekly hangout day, which is too often. I think what I want is a status between us where things are amicable, where we know we are on good terms with each other, but maybe not have such an active friendship.

[whichwayisup]

Another suggestion is, next time he calls so you two can 'hang out' together, tell him that you would like to go to lunch so you can get to know his girlfriend. See how he reacts. If he shows interest in that and says yes, then that's a good sign. BUT.. If he hums and haw's over it, then you have your answer and you will know that he has not told her about you..

 

but if I'm honest with myself, there is an aspect of our "Friendship" that isn't completely platonic

 

Then this isn't an innocent and platonic friendship at all. It isn't a coincidence that you posted this in second chances...Even though you've said it isn't a "relationship", or you want him back..You have feelings for him, that's for sure.

[pandagirl]

Panda, you DO have feelings for him but I don't think you're processing it that way.

 

If you were his girlfriend and he had a 'close connection and chemistry' with an ex and still spent alot of one on one time with her, bonding with her etc, I'm sure it would NOT sit well with you.

 

Maybe you're trusting him too much, putting him on a pedistool (pedestool? spelling..lol) and can't see who he truly is all because of your feelings. You see what you want to see, but LOOK at his actions.

 

Yes! You are right! I know, I know. I have a habit of idealizing people. This has happened with girl friends, too. I think, "No, they are good people" and I end up feeling used. If we want to get psychological, I know I tend to give way too much to people, without thinking of my own needs. I've gone through enough experiences in life to take a good hard look at this situation, so I can stop the pattern.

 

And why should he feel guilty? Because he is betraying her and you know it. You are feeling these feelings of angst about the situation because you know it is wrong. What he is doing is wrong and you do not feel right about being a part of it. (Which shows you have integrity!)

That is why you shouldn't hang out with him and contribute to it.

 

I do have integrity! I want to do what's right. At the same time, I'm scared to let him completely go from my life. I've done it before with people and I've turned out just dandy, but for some reason, this is a hard one.

[Island Girl]

Actually, no. Besides his ex-wife, he doesn't keep in contact with any ex's. I think it's more he is able to move on easily and doesn't see the point of keeping in touch with people he doesn't like anymore.

 

if I'm honest with myself, there is an aspect of our "Friendship" that isn't completely platonic.

 

I think what I want is a status between us where things are amicable, where we know we are on good terms with each other, but maybe not have such an active friendship.

 

I'm scared to let him completely go from my life. I've done it before with people and I've turned out just dandy, but for some reason, this is a hard one.

 

I think you are getting a lot of validation and ego boosting from being the one and only ex he still wants around.

That makes you special, right? That you have this shared something that makes you valuable in his eyes. And you like that.

It validates that you are somehow at a level of importance in his life.

 

I think THAT is why you don't want to let him go. You feel that if you do - it won't really matter to him - but it will matter a whole lot to you.

[EasyHeart]

Actually, no. Besides his ex-wife, he doesn't keep in contact with any ex's. I think it's more he is able to move on easily and doesn't see the point of keeping in touch with people he doesn't like anymore.

Do you think you might be idealizing him in this respect?

 

Ack! She sounds like a piece of work! Yeah, I'm sure you and her new boyfriend would totally hit it off! haha.

THANK YOU! for this. I'm still processing the suddenness of our break up and her starting a new relationship (I've posted plenty elsewhere, so I won't repeat it). She thinks I'm being 'immature' by not being happy for her and wanting to meet the great new guy in her life. Last time I saw her, she said (very condescendingly) "Well, you just take as much time as you need. And when you're ready, I'd really love for you to meet him."

 

 

I do have integrity! I want to do what's right. At the same time, I'm scared to let him completely go from my life. I've done it before with people and I've turned out just dandy, but for some reason, this is a hard one.

It's incredibly hard to let go of people you've grown close to. The issue is whether -- in the long run -- it's going to hurt more to be with him, than it is to endure the short-term pain of losing him. Ultimately, that's what I've realized with my ex (who wants us to 'stay friends') is that I may feel a little better now by not letting her go, but I'm setting myself up for huge amounts of pain in the future if I don't just completely cut her out of my life right now.

[lovely81]

You like him and need to get away from him as fast as possible. If you were really friends with him you would not be posting on LoveShack (And in the SecondChances section). I know from previous posts you'll never see it, but that is the bottom line. Stop contacting him, stop responding to his contacting you and move on.

[pandagirl]

I think you are getting a lot of validation and ego boosting from being the one and only ex he still wants around.

That makes you special, right? That you have this shared something that makes you valuable in his eyes. And you like that.

It validates that you are somehow at a level of importance in his life.

 

I think THAT is why you don't want to let him go. You feel that if you do - it won't really matter to him - but it will matter a whole lot to you.

 

You're right. I do feel that way. I get some sort of ego boost by knowing that even though he in so into his new girlfriend, he still wants to hangout with me. But, I think this street goes both ways. I have instigated no contact from him many times, because I needed to just let go. Every time, he will contact me, sometimes, I wouldn't respond to him. When I bumped into him and his gf on the street a few weeks ago, that was the first time I had seen him in almost five months (though there had been some emailing during that time). Past all the egos and complicated emotions, we really like being around each other. There's some intangible aspect to our relationship. However, I realize I have a lot of wonderful friends already and maybe this isn't just worth it.

 

Do you think you might be idealizing him in this respect?

 

 

THANK YOU! for this. I'm still processing the suddenness of our break up and her starting a new relationship (I've posted plenty elsewhere, so I won't repeat it). She thinks I'm being 'immature' by not being happy for her and wanting to meet the great new guy in her life. Last time I saw her, she said (very condescendingly) "Well, you just take as much time as you need. And when you're ready, I'd really love for you to meet him."

 

Yes, there is some idealizing going on. Since I know he can be a good person, I only look for those traits

 

As for you girlfriend, she sounds incredibly immature and selfish. Unfortunate for her. You deserve better!

[carhill]

PG, any new prospects or interests, man-wise?

 

What do you think of TBF's deal, where she started dating a guy on NYE and they're now engaged? Can you relate to that kind of certainty of feeling?

 

IMO, the only way you could have a meaningful long-term friendship with this guy is if you are like-minded and connect on a level irrespective of your gender. So far, I'm not getting that, but, like you said, I'm outside in the rain If you needed a friend in a crisis, would he drop what he's doing to be there for you? Good test.

[pandagirl]

PG, any new prospects or interests, man-wise?

 

What do you think of TBF's deal, where she started dating a guy on NYE and they're now engaged? Can you relate to that kind of certainty of feeling?

 

IMO, the only way you could have a meaningful long-term friendship with this guy is if you are like-minded and connect on a level irrespective of your gender. So far, I'm not getting that, but, like you said, I'm outside in the rain If you needed a friend in a crisis, would he drop what he's doing to be there for you? Good test.

 

Prospects. Not really. But I never have any prospects. I have been on one-off dates, but that's it.

 

Yeah! I think it's great that TBF got engaged. A couple years ago I met a guy that I immediately fell for HARD. I was on could nine for four months -- all the symptoms of passionate love coursed through my veins. But, he had just gotten out of a serious relationship AND was moving. It just didn't work.

 

This guy I am talking about. When I first met him, I walked away from our first date not thinking "I could be with this person" but "I think I want to know this person for a long time." I connect with this guy I'm talking about. He feels like an old friend to me. We have a lot of common interests, same taste in music, same sense of humor, but beyond those things, there is an element of "hey, I understand you."

 

I don't know what kind of REAL friend he is. I don't know him well enough.

[pandagirl]

Another suggestion is, next time he calls so you two can 'hang out' together, tell him that you would like to go to lunch so you can get to know his girlfriend. See how he reacts. If he shows interest in that and says yes, then that's a good sign. BUT.. If he hums and haw's over it, then you have your answer and you will know that he has not told her about you..

 

I already tried this. When we were talking about her, I said: "I'd like to meet her more properly one of these day and hang out! "

 

His response? He just said: "Yeah...she's a hard person to get a hold of," then he went on to say how she's always busy and has a dog.

[carhill]

Invite them over for dinner

[EasyHeart]

IMO, the only way you could have a meaningful long-term friendship with this guy is if you are like-minded and connect on a level irrespective of your gender. So far, I'm not getting that, but, like you said, I'm outside in the rain If you needed a friend in a crisis, would he drop what he's doing to be there for you? Good test.

 

You'd think that, wouldn't you. The last time I talked to my ex, she said, "You are my best friend and I know I can always count on you to drop everything and be there for me. But we're just not right for each other."