Spark1111 Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Okay, it is 1.5 years since DDay, and here it what I now grapple with: My husband began to confide to his oldest sister that he was "involved, falling for" another woman at work during his affair. I'm sure she did not not know what to do with the information. She told him to get counseling. He did not. Several months, and many, many conversations later with his sister, he again mentions the OW. She is surprised and adamantly advises him to get counseling. She tells him to start making lists, positives and negatives. Her husband had had an affair, and upon her discovery of it, she puts her head down, gets to work and makes the partnership work between them. My WS KNOWS of the affair, knows how quickly she forgave him, knows it was barely a blip on the radar of their marriage. But I see a lot of residual anger in her relationship with her husband, despite how "together" they appear to the public. They are both very successful professionals, have striving children, and appear to "have it all." My initial blink, after DDAy, when questioned by my grown children, "How did you feel about Auntie knowing," and I responded, from the heart, that I AM HAPPY HE HAd someone to talk to about his confusion. I like her and admire her and felt her advice was appropriate to a brother: Go get professional help. After DDAY, she called me constantly and worked hard to see us back together. I had thrown him out. She told him, "She is nothing like me. She will not put her head down on this." He would text me: 'why aren't you speaking with my sister?' As if I could ever just sweep an affair under the rug? Here is my perception now, after viewing his cell phone bills during the affair: He would call me at work, two minutes tops --I have a dinner meeting with execs, gonna be late tonight, etc. He would call his other woman, 11 minutes,--Can I come by tonight? Is your son with your ex or a babysitter? He would then call THIS sister-- Dad's estate, and to vent about me, our life, our children, etc. Now, after all this time, I believe two things: His sister knew and she still loved him, and in some way I think he took her attitude as a tacit approval, or at least, not downright disapproval for the affair he was having. I also think he thought, well, she forgave her husband immediately, why wouldn't my wife forgive me immediately? A big shocker to him when I went crazy with rage and the pain of betrayal and threw him out. My WS and I have since talked about this in counseling, and he is beginning to agree with my perception. His relationship with this sister in some ways helped prolong his affair because he thought I would react like she did to her husband's affair: angry, but not that big a deal because men will be men. I guess my question to the LS community is: WHO knew of the affair, either friend or family member, and did it help end the affair or help sustain it? In my case, for reasons unknown to my SIL, I think it helped sustain the affair. If she had reacted with shock and anger, her brother's affair may have ended earlier. As for list-making: We all do that with goals, or jobs, or relocations. I told my husband, if you EVER have to make a list convincing yourself to stay with me, PLEASE do us BOTH a favor and move out. Love and accept me for who I am, as I do you, or leave, please. I know she meant well, BUT...... Does anyone have a similiar story?
NoIDidn't Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I don't know if I could speak with her again for a long time, if I were in your shoes. Sure, great, she told him to get professional help. But at what point does she tell him that she's going to tell YOU. If it were me, that's what I would have done. Whether I intended to actually tell you or not, that's what I would tell a brother. But something gives me the impression that he was lying to his sister as well. I would hope that if she knew the true and full extent of his cheating, she would have told you. Don't read too much into the phone records. That's what cheaters do. They have to talk to others to try to get support for their rewriting of the marital history. They have to talk themselves into cheating, so they can keep doing it. It is what it is. You gotta get a handle on your anger if you really want a reconciliation to work.
signedin2008 Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Does anyone have a similiar story? No, she did not meant well. Based on what you said, she is neutral about it and it's sickening especially when she was a betrayed spouse herself. She should have known better. She is poison to your marriage. You need to confront her. She supported the affair by not exposing it to you. She exposed you to possible STDs. She is NOT your true friend.
Holding-On Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 She did not want her brother to do it. Perhaps she hoped he would see the light and you would never know thus avoiding you the pain she had felt. Or she wanted him own up to you himself. It was between a rock (you) and a hard place (her own kin) I imagine. It's not liked she egged him on. Focusing on her might be just another way of lessening the pain of your husband's decision.
Lucky_One Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 My sister and I are very close. While she totally disapproved of my affair and let me know it, she never turned her back on me. We are closer today than ever, and I know that I have her love no matter what stupid decisions that I ever make. I love my BIL, too, but if their marriage is ever over, even if my sister is the "cause" of the break-up, I will stand with her and love her (and he will have to hit the road) because we have a very strong bond, whether she is right or wrong. I think that you need to let go of the anger towards your SIL; it is almost like you are deflecting your hurt from your husband's actions toward her, rather than where it really belongs.
Owl Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Many, many years ago, as a young man I had a very good friend of mine who was initially dating and then married his high school sweetheart. He and I were both in the military, ended up being roomates during AIT and at our first duty station together. The problem was, this dude was the biggest 'playah' you've ever met. He was the kind of guy that women drooled on...until they got to know him and realized what a dog he was. But he was smooth...that could take a long time. My biggest regret from that time in my life was enabling his cheating on his wife. I excused it with all kinds of things...he was a "geographic bachelor", "what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her", etc... The bottom line of it all was that she was really a sweet lady who loved him a lot...and she'd suspected him many times, but only caught him once, and quickly forgave him...which never forced him to stop. Personally, I think you should have a serious sit down with your SIL, and get all of your feelings about this out in the open. Work through it...see if the two of you can reach an understanding, see if you can forgive her for not coming to you about all of this. But at the end of the day...she's responsible for her side in enabling his actions.
Hi.P.O'Crit Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Owl Your experience doesn't really compare to the OP's unless you counseled your friend to end his 'playah' ways. Which it seems like you didn't. But I may be making assumptions and reading into it. The problem I think is that the OP's SIL being and older sis was trying to protect her younger brother while not having much backbone of her own. Not a good position for her and unfortunately also for the OP.
NoIDidn't Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I think that you need to let go of the anger towards your SIL; it is almost like you are deflecting your hurt from your husband's actions toward her, rather than where it really belongs. I agree with this. BUT. I also feel this. Everyone that was present when I gave my vows to my H has a responsibility that they agreed to before God (and likely his sister was there too, in this sitch) to help protect my Union to him - not their familial bonds (which couldn't be dissolved like my marriage can).
NoIDidn't Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Personally, I think you should have a serious sit down with your SIL, and get all of your feelings about this out in the open. Work through it...see if the two of you can reach an understanding, see if you can forgive her for not coming to you about all of this. But at the end of the day...she's responsible for her side in enabling his actions. I agree with the top but not so much with the last line entirely. Definitely speak with her and put it all on the line. Tell her how you feel and leave it at that. No blame, just get out the hurt. She's been where you are, so she may be able to just listen - or she may feel like you are blaming her. I hope you don't make her feel blamed if you do choose to speak with her. The bottom part. I do feel that she should have threatened to tell you or told you what she knew, but I don't feel that she enabled it directly. She didn't tell any outright lies while he was cheating, did she? She knew he was unhappy and was possibly cheating. I hope you are able to get the distractions out of the way and make a decision regarding your marriage. No one here has the right to tell you to end it or reconcile it. You will have to decide that for yourself. But it seems that you are using every distraction available to you to keep from staring that pain straight in the face. There are many here that can help you with the feelings that will arise, but you will have to make a decision yourself Spark. And don't feel bad, you are normal. Many people have been in your exact position of not knowing if they really want the marriage or not - even years after the A is over and all is out in the open. That's why they say it takes two to five years to recover from Infidelity - and that's whether reconciled or not. Wishing you peace of mind and strength!
65tr6 Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Now, after all this time, I believe two things: His sister knew and she still loved him, and in some way I think he took her attitude as a tacit approval, or at least, not downright disapproval for the affair he was having. I also think he thought, well, she forgave her husband immediately, why wouldn't my wife forgive me immediately? A big shocker to him when I went crazy with rage and the pain of betrayal and threw him out. Spark, if I were you I would all over your sil. But that is me. If someone knew about the affair and they didnt tell you and they know you, they have no excuse....that is again...just me. It will just burn me up. Did you talk to your sil and let her know how you feel ?
65tr6 Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I think it helped sustain the affair. If she had reacted with shock and anger, her brother's affair may have ended earlier. Could not agree anymore. BS can use any help they can get when they are being cheated on, betrayed and destroyed.
Heroic Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 She has no obligation to do anything for anyone, she didn't take any vows. HE is solely at fault.
Owl Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 HE is entirely at fault for the affair...agreed. But, depending on the relationship of SIL with the OP, I'd say that there very well MAY HAVE BEEN implied 'vows' as in any friendship/close relationship. As a friend or someone who cared about the OP, SIL did indeed "owe" the truth to her if she was aware of this. If the two of them had no kind of relationship that extended beyond knowing each other...perhaps not.
jj33 Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Spark speaking from the other side of it, I think its very difficult. I am extremely close with my own brother and if he told me he was cheating on his wife, although I am not close with her I would harrass him to such an extent that he might stop taking my calls. I would probably threaten to tell his W. What you dont know if whether she threatened to tell you. In the end, she is his sister. No matter how much it would upset me if my brother was having an affair, I am not sure I could tell go so far as to ACTUALLY tell his wife no matter how much I wanted to and thought I should, because he is my brother and it is his marriage. My own mother who would be vehemently against the affair would also be unlikely to tell my sister in law because she would think it was not her place and would harrass me that it was not my business to interfere in their marriage, hoping and praying that he would see sense on his own and that the whole thing would somehow right itself. That may have been what your sister in law was thinking. That you werent like her, that you WOULD hit the roof, that she would somehow be blamed for telling you... who knows what she thought? I know you are making great strides with your H but are you SURE that his sister was neutral and that your H is not just reporting it in a way that suits him? That he is not using that as a crutch "well my sister didnt condemn me and didnt think you would either" Kind of like a child saying but Billy's mother lets HIM swim in the lake after dark? I cant believe that hearing of your brother's behavior it didnt bring back the pain of her own experience and she didnt tell him to stop on no uncertain terms. And how do you know he was complaining to his sister about you? Did she tell you this? Or is that him telling you. She may have been responding by saying I dont care what is going on between you two, you must stop this and tell your wife and seek counseling. This all lies at your H's door. Not your SIL's. Unless you sit down with your SIL you will never know what she said or what position she took. She may tell you how angry she was at her brother and how it ate her up not knowing what to do with the information. Noone would be happy to hear their brother was having an affair. Especially someone married to someone like you. I can understand how you would be upset with her and feel uncomfortable speaking to her knowing that she knew but its not her fault. Its your H's fault.
Author Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Posted February 21, 2009 I do WANT to speak with her. I believe her intentions were honorable and she percieved them as helpful. I just do not think she realized how her brother, my WS, perceived them, and used them to justify his actions. I do not believe she knew the length and depth of the affair: Do I tell her the scope of her brother's betrayal after 1.5 years? I am unsure if that would be helpful. It may just seem as if I am pleading my case and disparaging him to his sister. That's a tricky one. Her husband's AP was an anonymous work colleague in another city and he confessed to it. It was easier to put her head down and continue appearances. My husband's AP was a not so anonymous work colleague in my region of the world. They were spotted out by mutual friends I have since lost; my children met her on two occasions; he ordered flowers for both of us from the local florist. In addition to everything else, I have to deal with the humiliation of MANY people knowing or assuming to know. He did vent to her about certain stressful situations in our marriage, because she repeated them back to me almost verbatim from his side of the story after I threw him out. These were issues I wanted to address in counseling with him for a long time. He refused to go, but allowed his anger to fuel his affair.
Author Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Posted February 21, 2009 I do not blame her. I do blame him. It just seems like more ONE MORE THING I, as the BS , need to take care of and sometimes the responsibilities that fall on the BS attempting a successful reconciliation can be daunting. ANOTHER QUESTION: Oh, I'll start another post on this one?
Island Girl Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Everyone that was present when I gave my vows to my H has a responsibility that they agreed to before God (and likely his sister was there too' date=' in this sitch) to help protect my Union to him[/b'] - not their familial bonds (which couldn't be dissolved like my marriage can). What kind of ceremony did you have? I have NEVER witnessed a marriage where the guests took vows having anything to do with "protecting" the union of the two people being married. They are there witnessing the union and showing their support of your marriage and their well wishes for the relationship. But what goes on in the relationship is between you and your husband alone. If a friend of mine was having an affair, I would council against it, urge her to stop and seek counseling, tell her to decide about her marriage first before involving other people and clouding her head, BUT I would not run and tell her husband. The same thing goes for my brother. We are very close. And if I knew he was up to something like that I would air my disapproval to him and tell him how wrong it is, etc. But I would not tell his wife. You just never know what is going to happen when you put yourself in the middle of marital difficulties. The BS can be angry at the person telling them. The cheater can lie and the spouse can end up believing the lies because denial can prevail. And then the relationship between the person who told and the couple is ruined forever. I wouldn't risk the relationship I have with my brother by betraying his trust in me as his sister and friend by getting involved in his marriage. You just never know how someone is going to react to the information and when it isn't YOUR relationship you just shouldn't jump into the middle.
jj33 Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 I think the way you are handling this is tremedous. I hope your H realizes how lucky he is to have you. The embarrassment is understandable but hold your head high. Your H should be embarrassed by his actions. You have nothing to be embarrassed about. You love your husband and you believed in him. There is nothing embarrassing about that. The fact that he didnt deserve your belief in his honesty during that period of time is no reflection on you, regardless of what he told others during that time.
username24 Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 I think the biggest problem I have with this situation is that the SIL was a BS herself. How could she not do something more than recommend counseling? That would bother me a LOT.
Author Spark1111 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Posted February 22, 2009 Thank you jj. Username, I have learned in IC that there are all different types of marriages. If marriage is a partnership, well there can be all sorts or partnerships, yes? And I assume, either rightly or wrongly, that the majority of us posters here on LS were passionately in love with our spouses, otherwise how/why could we be in so much pain from the betrayal? Some marriage partners may tolerate repeated affairs if it does not disturb the status quo of the partnership. Some may be okay with don't ask, don't tell, don't reveal, don't delve too deeply. But, those of you who have read my heart bleeding all over my posts, realize, alas, I am not one of them.
65tr6 Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 And I assume, either rightly or wrongly, that the majority of us posters here on LS were passionately in love with our spouses, otherwise how/why could we be in so much pain from the betrayal?. Assumption would be right in my case. I wondered at times, why I am I in so much pain. After all, it is just another f* Infidelity. Wrong. It is (the pain) is directly proporitonal to how much the spouse and the marraige meant to you.
stampdaddy Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 I am wondering, and probably should start another post about this, but reading yours makes me wonder: As hard as you are trying, which is wonderful at the moment, I wonder what marriages are like YEARS down the road, I mean many years down the road, when the sun is starting to set? What will it be like for the BS's who have carried this burden all of those years? I can imagine a couple out to dinner, and they are like 60 or so, and something sparks that memory.. The BS looks at their spouse and quietly has that heavy sigh, and just shakes their head thinking about what was "taken" away all those years ago... just wondering if there are any thoughts like that out there like these (or experiences for that matter)
Author Spark1111 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Posted February 22, 2009 Stamp Daddy, I think of it all the time! I pray for the day when it is not a thought, but a distant memory, and I again feel secure in MYSELF, hopefully with, and always possibly, without him.
jj33 Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Stamp you raise an intersting point. When I was quite young I forgave something that I should not have. Months later sitting at dinner, I just looked at him and said what am I doing here. I have no business being here or even speaking to you. I put down my fork walked out and never spoke to him again. (yes he tried to speak to me but I wouldnt answer his calls etc etc). I can imagine something similar happening to a BS.
Owl Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 I can't speak for when I'm 60...yet...but I plan on getting there. I can tell you that in my case, it very, very rarely comes to mind anymore. Especially when we're out doing stuff together, or being romantic between us. And when it does come to mind, on those rare occasions...its very easy for me to look at where we're at NOW and realize that this is far more important than worrying about where we were at then. We're about five years post d-day at this point.
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