Rebuild trust: how, without open-book policy

[sangean]

First off, I realize that posting to a forum has it's limitations, and I could not possibly give enough details for anyone to fully understand what I/we are going through,... but, I'm at my wit's end with this relationship, and need advice...

 

7 months ago, I caught my wife having an emotional affair with a co-worker via email. She was on maternity leave at the time, following the birth of our second child. Our relationship had been difficult for about a year before I found out. She told me (before and especially since the affair) that she had problems with me being critical, and not being affectionate enough. I admit I made those mistakes, and have put alot of effort into correcting them, starting about a year ago, and through continual improvement have largely addressed these issues, I feel. Still working on making that better.

 

My wife says the affair was not physical, and only lasted 2 months. I saw about 3 days-worth of emails, which were very graphic sexually, expressed lots of desire, admiration, and even proclaimed love. She was critical of me to him, and expressed her desire to replace me with him. My wife says she meant none of it, and it was just an outlet, an escape from a life she was unhappy with.

 

I was shattered when I found out. Shocked, humiliated, saddened, angry. After a couple of days, I asked myself "what is important". The answer for me was repairing the damage and fixing the marriage. She agreed.

 

I insisted that in order to rebuild trust, I needed her to be an open-book, with no secrets. She agreed.

 

She emailed him once more, to let him know I found out. She deleted the sent email, and claims she cannot recall what she sent, so I never saw how she ended it. I wish I knew.

 

I had never kept any secrets from her, still don't, and always freely shared passwords to email accounts, websites, etc. Nothing was off the table. She, on the other hand, had been secretive about these things, before the affair was discovered.

 

This week, she returned to work. Up until now, she (as far as I can tell) refrained from using computers since the affair. I had alot of anxiety about her returning to work, where the other man is. She never told the other man that she never meant the things she told him, despite me expressing to her how important it would be to me that she tell him the same "truth" she was telling me.

 

She was diagnosed with depression a few months ago. I think she's had this since before our second child was born... but that's just my opinion, given the symptoms I witnessed and the books I've read on depression. She resisted taking meds at first, but it now appears that she's taking them.

 

Upon her return to work, she is now insisting on keeping her email password a secret, and had apparently changed her facebook password as well (although she denies this,... but the old one stopped working yesterday). I am aware that the other man has tried to re-establish email contact with her since the affair was discovered (he had told me via email previously that no more contact would take place), telling her he misses her, asking if the email was secure, and asking what her next move was. I intercepted these before she saw them, and discussed them with her a week before she started work. She assures me she will not communicate with him.

 

MY ISSUE: I I need her to be an open-book with me, with no secrets or hidden information, in order to rebuild trust in this relationship. This would also help address my anxiety about her return to work, and reassure me she has nothing to hide. She is INSISTING on keeping her email, and now facebook messages, private. She just began inisisting on this upon her return to work. I am very angry about her decision. It goes against what we agreed to when we decided to try to make the relationship work. I have talked to her at length about this, and she will not budge. I do not see a way for this relationship to work without trust, and I do not see how I can rebuild trust if she insists on keeping secrets... particularly her email account, which she used to carry on the affair with.

 

I need advice.

 

Is this the end? I've never been so frustrated with her in my life. I am sick of this situation. We seemed to be doing better, gaining ground, fighting less, smiling more... slow progress, but progress,... and seeing a marriage counselor. But this decision to keep secrets erodes the trust we were rebuilding.

 

Is my insistence that the her email/facebook communications be open to me to view unreasonable? If so, how else do I get the reassurance I need, and rebuild trust. It is too hard to take her word for it, as she lied to my face several times during the affair... and is telling me even now that she hasn't changed her facebook password, even though it has changed.

 

Help, please.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is my insistence that the her email/facebook communications be open to me to view unreasonable?

Not in the least.

If so, how else do I get the reassurance I need, and rebuild trust.

Based on the fact you're posting here, you don't.

 

How is it she goes back to work with a man with which she was "very graphic sexually, expressed lots of desire, admiration, and even proclaimed love. She was critical of me to him, and expressed her desire to replace me with him" ???

 

Regardless of her reasons - job, economy, work satisfaction, etc. - that would be a dealbreaker for me...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Dexter Morgan]

There is no trust to build with this woman. She is wanting to be secretive because she is doing things that she feels the need to hide.

 

Deleting the sent email was one of them.

 

I don't think there is any trust here to regain with such a person. I think she needs to get served divorce papers at work. Trust me, nothing good can come from staying with someone that needs to keep secrets and is hiding something from you.

 

I know and YOU know that she is still seeing another guy and having impoper contact with him/them.

 

Get rid of her. You don't need a "woman" like this in your life. There are good women out there. Your wife isn't one of them.

[Geishawhelk]

A person who sincerely wants to rebuild Trust, Communication and Respect in a relationship, will show willingness, Commitment and Effort to do so.

They'll bend over backwards to prove honesty and transparency, and go out of their way to keep in touch and let you know every little detail of what they're doing, when, with whom and seek your approval.

 

If she's not doing any of the above, to any degree, then - Trust me - she's going her own way, doing what she wants and is not - repeat, NOT - doing anything constructive to repair the damage and save the marriage.

 

You sir, have a conniving, cheating, playing, lying little sh-itburger on your plate.

 

I would imagine such a dish to be wholly unpalatable, and I would demand the waiter remove it immediately.

 

Dump her.

 

Dump

 

Her.

 

D-U-M-P

 

H-E-R .

[sangean]

Thanks for your replies.

 

Like all things in life, this is more complicated than my long (sorry) posting described.

 

She tells me the reason she is keeping this secret is because she feels she has very little control over her own life, and needs to keep control over her email as her one item. She has often expressed to me since the affair discovery that she cannot live with the level of scrutiny (e.g. open-book-ness) that she feels I need.

 

She does appear near a breakdown. I don't want to push her over the edge, but can't put up with this level of secrecy. I need to trust her, and cannot under these conditions.

 

She feels I'm too controlling. Oddly enough, I feel the same about her (and could bore you with examples),... but we did have a pretty happy marriage 2 yrs ago or so (been married 10 years). My biggest issue now is that we have this young family, and I can't bear to break it apart. But I can't live with someone I can't trust either.

 

She knows her choice of keeping her email password a secret is potentially ending our relationship. She seems unfazed by that. Frankly, some days, she wants out, as she says she's unhappy. Other days, she wants to stay in the relationship. She says she has no interest in anyone else, and my gut tells me that's true (I know, sounds like I'm a sucker... but that's my instinct, and it's hard to give full details here)... and I want to get her depression addressed before we make a BIG relationship decision. At the moment, we're at the edge of the cliff... and it's a stand-off. She needs her email to be private. I need it to be open to me. She controls that, and I'm saying if it isn't open to me I can't continue, as I can't trust her. I'm shocked she is making this decision. Very angry with her. I am a pretty logical person (too much, she might say), and always found her unreasonable in some ways... but this takes the cake.

 

She plans to bring this up with the marriage counselor this later week, and ask him whether the password should be provided to me or not. Frankly, I don't know what he'll say. He has delayed working on rebuilding trust so far (4 months +), focusing on whether or not we can have a relationship. We fought the last couple of sessions in front of him.

 

I want this to work, but can't see how it can if she continues to keep this private.

[Geishawhelk]

She tells me the reason she is keeping this secret is because she feels she has very little control over her own life, and needs to keep control over her email as her one item.

 

Nope.

No deal.

She's proven she can't be trusted, so she's going to have to take the rap for that.

 

She has often expressed to me since the affair discovery that she cannot live with the level of scrutiny (e.g. open-book-ness) that she feels I need.

 

Tough sheit. Then she shouldn't have cheated then, should she?

 

 

She does appear near a breakdown. I don't want to push her over the edge, but can't put up with this level of secrecy. I need to trust her, and cannot under these conditions.

Breakdown shmeakdown. She's brought this largely on herself. She gets my sympathy vote of nul points....

 

She feels I'm too controlling. Oddly enough, I feel the same about her (and could bore you with examples),... but we did have a pretty happy marriage 2 yrs ago or so (been married 10 years). My biggest issue now is that we have this young family, and I can't bear to break it apart. But I can't live with someone I can't trust either.

Yes tough choice.

Tough it may be, but I know what I'd do.

 

 

She knows her choice of keeping her email password a secret is potentially ending our relationship.

 

Then you know what she wants, then, don't you?

 

She seems unfazed by that. Frankly, some days, she wants out, as she says she's unhappy. Other days, she wants to stay in the relationship. She says she has no interest in anyone else, and my gut tells me that's true (I know, sounds like I'm a sucker... but that's my instinct, and it's hard to give full details here

 

Then she's being extremely controlling and manipulative.

 

Look, this isn't a game you're playing, either of tyou.

This is raw, painful and real, and you either have to both agree to joint counselling, or just end it, because there IS no middle ground here.

 

 

Whatever her indiscretions, whether she's been physically unfaithful or not, her indiscretion is a symptom of a much bigger deeper problem.

but even if you find it, name it and bringing it into the open, that's just the beginning. DFinding it doesn't cure it.

 

......and I want to get her depression addressed before we make a BIG relationship decision. At the moment, we're at the edge of the cliff... and it's a stand-off. She needs her email to be private. I need it to be open to me. She controls that, and I'm saying if it isn't open to me I can't continue, as I can't trust her. I'm shocked she is making this decision. Very angry with her. I am a pretty logical person (too much, she might say), and always found her unreasonable in some ways... but this takes the cake.

 

She's pretty much decided what she wants then, hasn't she?

 

She plans to bring this up with the marriage counselor this later week, and ask him whether the password should be provided to me or not. Frankly, I don't know what he'll say. He has delayed working on rebuilding trust so far (4 months +), focusing on whether or not we can have a relationship. We fought the last couple of sessions in front of him.

 

I want this to work, but can't see how it can if she continues to keep this private.

 

Then say so.,

Make it an incontestable deal-breaker and ultimatum.

Lay it down as non-negotiable.

Rock up and state your requirements.

And don't whatever you do, budge a millimetre.

[seibert253]

Time for her to make a decision, you or the other guy. I'm sorry but if she doesn't want to give you access to her email and facebook, THERE'S A REASON. It's because she intends to re-establish her EA after things have "gone back to normal".

Time for you to lay down the law and tell her either she gives you complete access, or it's time for her to go.

You're waffeling and waivering, she knows it, and is taking advantage of it. Time to man-up, grow a pair, and stand up for yourself.

[Heroic]

New job, and total openess or walk.

[reservoirdog1]

She tells me the reason she is keeping this secret is because she feels she has very little control over her own life, and needs to keep control over her email as her one item. She has often expressed to me since the affair discovery that she cannot live with the level of scrutiny (e.g. open-book-ness) that she feels I need.

Her bending over backwards to regain your trust should be job one for her. If she wants to fix what she nearly destroyed, she should be willing to put up with scrutiny. "Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing."

 

I don't buy for a minute (a) that her motivation for keeping you out of her email and FB is just out of a desire for "control" over her life, or (b) that she's near a breakdown. That's a cop-out, a play for sympathy to get you to agree to her being secretive again.

 

This is the time for you to stand firm. Put it to her like this: "I'm not trying to control you. If you're not willing to give me your passwords, that's your choice. But I will not continue in a marriage with you while you continue to practice secrecy. One of the requirements of continuing this marriage with me is that I get access to your email and Facebook, until I feel I can trust you again. If that's took much to ask, then this marriage must end."

[LucreziaBorgia]

She is still having an affair, and until you bust it open and force it to end your marriage cannot be fixed.

 

Get a keylogger, and start with that.

 

Do not under any circumstance let on that you are looking for evidence. She already is in the 'lie, lie, lie, deny, deny, deny' stage and will simply bury deeper down to hide if she thinks you are on to her.

[mark982]

is the other man married? if so tell his wife.but basically i'd start covering my azz. she's neither ready or willing to end this.so your options are kinda limited.

[sangean]

The other man is married. He has convinced my wife that she is psychotic and violent (rubbish I assume), and my wife is terrified that if I tell her this will explode into a very public affair. She works a few floors down in the same building as my wife and the other man. My wife's biggest fear seems to be that she will be exposed to her co-workers, and she says the shame will drive her far away from her.

 

My wife revealed the password for her email, 2 and a half days in, and de-activated her facebook account. I immediately checked her email account (mid-day) upon her telling me, and there was an email from him, saying "I'm free now". I called her back, furious, asking what preceded this. She said nothing, and that he must have just saw her and assumed she wanted to talk. I emailed him, threatening to tell his wife, and he pleaded that my wife was sending him lots of emails and he felt compelled to reply.

 

Wife caught in lie: she said she never communicated with him these 2 and a half days.

 

She changed her story, to say that I was interfering too much, and that she wanted to end the affair her own way, on her own terms, and was just trying to do it gently.

 

I wasn't buying it.

 

She then sends an email to both of us, saying she loves me, only wants me, and he understands it's over. She asks me to end my threats of revealing this to his wife.

 

Don't know what to believe.

 

Next morning she appears to almost break down in rage when I asked what communication took place between them. She said (again) that this is it, we're getting divorced.

 

She's threatened likewise before. Seems to have backed down now.

 

Counselor recommends showing love and caring, to try to repair marriage... or alternatively I could be mad, which would likely end it all.

 

I am confused. Feel like a fool. Don't trust her. But still love her. Also want to tell his wife, as she deserves to know the snake she's living with... but that would almost certainly end our marriage. I know, I know... I need to grow a couple. It is possible she's near a breakdown, and her depression is very real. Undecided what to do from here.

 

Thanks for the responses...

[Heroic]

Sorry guy, these are not the actions of a repentant person.

 

She is only sorry she got caught.

[Geishawhelk]

...And tell your counsellor they're freckin' useless.

 

Instead of preaching love and care, he could try pointing out to her that she's effectively pulling out all the stops to be as destructive and negative as she can - and what is SHE doing to repair things?

End it.

The sooner the better.

 

I'm frankly stunned you're still there.

[mark982]

yes the consuler is clueless. and your wife doesn't want the affair exposed, cause it's not over, she'd miss her playtoy. don't let your wife tell you what to do.expose her to everyone.so what if your wifes embaressed! time to do what's right, if she leaves are you really missing anything?except her laughing at you behind your back.

[TwilightBch]

I am brand new posting to these forums, but I read your posting and your story is sooo similer to mine I had to respond. I will not be able to give you advice, as I am at the same place you are. My h had the exact type of affair as your wife, but it was someone from a HS reunion. I found out by accident on Xmas Eve 09. Like you, I let go of all the confusion and decided that I did still love him and that I would give a %110 to fixing my marriage. We attend counseling, and have been told just how important full disclosure (therepy word) is in rebuilding trust. We were actually going along pretty well when on my anniversary 2/18 I found out that his entire story, the intensity he had for her, the contents of the emails were all completely sugar-coated. I had asked for 2 months for the truth so that I could come to terms with it all and he allowed me to believe a lie all over again. He claims he did it to protect me and our marriage. I now do not believe a thing he says.

 

All I can say to you is that I can completely understand where you are coming from. If I were you, if you truly believe her desire to work this out, she needs to see that you need her to expose, voluntarily, all contact with her affair partner. She really needs to want to show empathy for you. I also bought a book called - " Not "Just Friends"

Rebuilding Trust and REcovering you sanity after infidelity" By Shirley Glass. This book has helped me better explain my feelings to my husband and has actually helped him to see what I am going through. I will follow this thread, if I can learn how to do it. Good luck....