cek Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 After my boyfriend wanted to be just friends, we hashed everything out, and agreed we'd both be interested in a possible future relationship again. I went to counseling (and am still attending regularly) for issues with intimacy, mostly emotional intimacy but physical as well. It had to do with my upbringing. My family is not openly affectionate, except between women and children. I am physically disabled, and was also bullied mercilessly throughout my school years, and boys never had an interest in me as anything more than a friend. As a result, I unintentionally acted like just a friend towards him, although I wanted much more than friendship. I started counseling for myself, knowing that regardless of what would happen between him and I, I had to address my issues if I would ever have a successful, long term relationship with any man. I fell in love with this particular man, and I'm still very much in love with him. I do believe he is the one I want to be with permanently. He is disabled as well, and although we are affected by the same disorder, I am less affected physically. I'm at a crossroads now. I want to show him the progress the couseling has made, and that I am a different person. I now believe that I can be loved. I now belive that I am deserving of true love from a man. I now believe that I am deserving of marriage & family just like everyone else. I have much higher self esteem. I also now know it's acceptable to show PDA (within reason of course). I confessed to him once a few months ago that I am in love with him, but I think he might believe that I somehow got over things, eventhough I didn't. He confessed that he was also in love with me, but neither of us could quite pinpoint the feeling at the time. He also admitted that when he told me wanted to be just friends, he felt awful and couldn't sleep that night. He even more recently gave me a sincere apology for hurting me, without any prompting on my part. I really want to show him the progress I've made. We've kept in contact and are the best of friends. How do I go about showing the change, asking if he'd like to try the relationship again at this point, but still not be overly emotional? Though I must also say, he is a sensetive, emotional man who likes a woman that isn't afraid to show emotion. My apologies for rambling. I know I've posted many similar posts, and I'm sure I seem quite emotional on here. But, better on here than towards the guy, right? Any advice for showing the change without being too needy/emotional?
CaliGuy Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 The best way to show him you have improved is to resist doing the things you used to do that turned him away. If you were needy/clingy, STOP IT. Immerse yourself in new hobbies and friends and get out there and enjoy life. Do things you've been meaning to do that build up your confidence (within the confines of your disability). In other words, if you are out having fun, enjoying life and building confidence, you won't have to say a word to him. He'll see it himself and may be interested in the new you. My point is, there is nothing you can SAY to him that will prove it. Only actions prove intent. Not words.
Author cek Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 The best way to show him you have improved is to resist doing the things you used to do that turned him away. If you were needy/clingy, STOP IT. Immerse yourself in new hobbies and friends and get out there and enjoy life. Do things you've been meaning to do that build up your confidence (within the confines of your disability). In other words, if you are out having fun, enjoying life and building confidence, you won't have to say a word to him. He'll see it himself and may be interested in the new you. My point is, there is nothing you can SAY to him that will prove it. Only actions prove intent. Not words. Interesting perspective, and good advice. Thank you. However, my issue was not being needy/clingy. In fact, it was the exact opposite. Not realizing it, again due to past experiences, I acted like a friend rather than a girlfriend. So what actions would show that change? If before I acted like my intentions were only for friendship, should I try things such as mild flirting now? My dilema is to find the balance between showing the progress, but not acting overly needy/clingy. And as a reminder, he is a man who shows emotion, and does want the same in a woman. I was not needy/clingy in the relationship. I want to show him that I've learned to act more like a girlfriend as opposed to just a platonic friend. In a way, it's sort of what you're saying, but in reverse. Makes sense?
CaliGuy Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I just used "needy/clingy" as a generalized example. I wasn't speaking directly to your circumstance. All I would like you to do is not OVER compensate for any perceived deficiencies in your behavior the first time around. In other words, you don't want to lean too far to one side of the fence or the other. Actions to louder than words. Live your life, love yourself and have fun. He'll either see it or he won't but that shouldn't matter to you. Even if he doesn't, someone else will.
Author cek Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 I just used "needy/clingy" as a generalized example. I wasn't speaking directly to your circumstance. All I would like you to do is not OVER compensate for any perceived deficiencies in your behavior the first time around. In other words, you don't want to lean too far to one side of the fence or the other. Actions to louder than words. Live your life, love yourself and have fun. He'll either see it or he won't but that shouldn't matter to you. Even if he doesn't, someone else will. I appreciate your advice, very good & interesting. I do try having the fun I can, however, my disability just doesn't leave much room for it. I've had 10 surgeries on my arms & legs in the last 4 years. And I'm still not done with that. I had 4 surgeries as a child, and I'm at it again. All to correct my numerous deformities. I also do not want to be someone I'm not. I don't want to give the impression that I've moved on or something, when in fact I haven't. It's a difficult balance. I want to show the change/progress to the guy I love, but also as you said, not be too overly clingy/needy. Remember, he recently has expressed interest in the possibility of a relationship again. Part of me feels that your advice is similar to NC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're saying to do my own thing, not really worry/care what he's doing, and essentially see what happens (hoping for the best). I'm not sure how those actions show that I want more than a friendship with him. I'm not sure how those actions show that I've changed, and now know HOW to give the impression that I want more than a friendship. Forgive me if I seem overly analytical. I'm an inquisitive person. Such is the personality of a physician/philosopher LOL
carhill Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 IMO, predicate change upon the path which you wish to walk, not upon how you might appear to those you are desirous of. If you both end up on the same path, bonus
CaliGuy Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 IMO, predicate change upon the path which you wish to walk, not upon how you might appear to those you are desirous of. If you both end up on the same path, bonus Excellent advice, as always, Carhill.
Author cek Posted February 19, 2009 Author Posted February 19, 2009 Carhill, interesting advice. I had never heard anything like that before. If you have more advice, or would like to elaborate, please do so. I'm very intrigued. I know I keep saying it, but it is quite difficult when you want to show someone any change you've made. It's not as simple as when we were all kids and could just say, "hey look at me!". Ah, if only it were that easy to show change.
carhill Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 For me, the visualization came as a result of MC. I spent far too many years jumping onto the paths of others and neglecting my own path. It is the nature of an empath. Realizing that it's OK for others I care for to have a path of their own and occasionally have our paths meet is what helped me to develop a more positive attitude about relationships. I'm happy when paths converge but not devastated when they diverge. I enjoy the moments/days/months/years, etc of symmetry and value those who have chosen to share some of their life with me. All that said, their sharing does not define me. I change to grow myself, not to impress, help, or seek affirmation from them. IMO, our basic personalities, emotional styles and brain chemistry remain relatively static. The changes occur in how we cognitively process all that stuff and bring it to the world. I can literally visualize the changes and do share the process with a few people I trust. The changes send out different signals and people respond differently. I have to decide if I am satisfied with the responses I receive and then assign the appropriate importance of them to me. Prior, I assigned far too much importance to responses and far too little to my own internal self-critique. MC taught me to trust myself more. Believe in the basics. Communicate better, yes. Understand my language isn't universally understood. Listen. Accept. Do all those things, but not at the expense of self. My wife lives in her own house now and we talk nearly every day. I do want to be the person I like seeing in the mirror. She'll have to choose for herself if that's the person she wants to share paths with. I have no control over that. I do have control over my choices.
Author cek Posted February 21, 2009 Author Posted February 21, 2009 For me, the visualization came as a result of MC. I spent far too many years jumping onto the paths of others and neglecting my own path. It is the nature of an empath. Realizing that it's OK for others I care for to have a path of their own and occasionally have our paths meet is what helped me to develop a more positive attitude about relationships. I'm happy when paths converge but not devastated when they diverge. I enjoy the moments/days/months/years, etc of symmetry and value those who have chosen to share some of their life with me. All that said, their sharing does not define me. I change to grow myself, not to impress, help, or seek affirmation from them. IMO, our basic personalities, emotional styles and brain chemistry remain relatively static. The changes occur in how we cognitively process all that stuff and bring it to the world. I can literally visualize the changes and do share the process with a few people I trust. The changes send out different signals and people respond differently. I have to decide if I am satisfied with the responses I receive and then assign the appropriate importance of them to me. Prior, I assigned far too much importance to responses and far too little to my own internal self-critique. MC taught me to trust myself more. Believe in the basics. Communicate better, yes. Understand my language isn't universally understood. Listen. Accept. Do all those things, but not at the expense of self. My wife lives in her own house now and we talk nearly every day. I do want to be the person I like seeing in the mirror. She'll have to choose for herself if that's the person she wants to share paths with. I have no control over that. I do have control over my choices. Not to digress from the discussion, but what does "MC" stand for? I don't know all of the relationship shorthand yet. Back to the topic though. I'm interpreting your advice as doing my own thing, and allowing "nature to take its course", correct? My concern is yet again sending the WRONG message. I don't want that to be interpreted as "moving on", when in fact I haven't. My intentions were never for only a friendship, and still aren't. He has expressed openess to a possible relationship again. Perhaps it's my nature as a disabled person, but when I'm focused on a certain task, I will exhaust EVERY possible option before deciding I am unable to do that task. I truly feel he is the one for me. It's almost as if I can't truly move on, unless I have any doubt that he's the one. And I don't have any doubts about that. Sorry if I seem stubborn, but I can't help how I feel.
carhill Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 You're not stubborn, you're single-minded. You sound a lot like someone near and dear to my heart, another of those "path-crossings". Read my Evolution journals for more info. MC is marriage counseling, for us with a male clinical psychologist. My wife had a difficult childhood and I have an extremely sensitive nervous system, so we kept him busy, to say the least In a way, yes, I am advising to let "nature take its course", but that the course is steered by the signals you send out into the flow of life in the world. Your existence affects the world. It's up to you to decide how. You have no control over the existence, psyche, or signals your friend/boyfriend sends out, but can be receptive and react in a way that he discerns as desirable or positive (of course, undesirable and negative, too). That's up to you. You control you. Like yourself, I received little physical affection as a child, but it came from a completely different place. My parents were affectionate, as early movies and pictures showed, but, as I developed and my nervous system became more sensitive, I would recoil from them, not because I was afraid or embarrassed, but because every time they touched me it was like a lightning bolt went through me. Over time, they pulled back because they didn't understand. Even as an older adult, unexpected but desired touch still affects me, as I noted just a couple days ago, when my female friend grabbed my arm to show how her sons GF clings to him. It literally startled me and I almost pulled away, even though I love her very much and have embraced her many times over the years. Signals...sometimes unintentional, get out. MC helped me talk more clearly about such things and learn tools to change myself and how I interpret the inner work to the outer world. FWIW, I know this unintentional distance of which you speak. It has been a feature of my friendship with the aformentioned female friend likely longer than you have been alive. We purposely set that distance because we are so close and it is/was inappropriate due to being in other relationships/marriages. Because such a process has been in place for so long, IMO, even if we were both single, we would be unable to undo that psychological setpoint we both have built over decades of contact. How do you undo the message you sent out and send out a new message? IDK. That's a tough one. When I figure out an answer, I'll let you know BTW, when reading, I thought of a close childhood friend who endured many surguries. He has achondroplasia, a form of dwarfism. Last time I saw him, he was a park ranger at one of the national parks here in Cali. He'll be 50 next year, IIRC. Hope my little story helped. IMO, the only bad choice is to make no choice at all. Do something. Always move forward. Sounds like that's been your anthem. Best wishes
Author cek Posted February 21, 2009 Author Posted February 21, 2009 Carhill, I truly appreciate your advice and perspective on this. It is quite insightful. My issues with affection are rather "unique", IMO. No one in my family has been in a good marriage. Most are divorced, and on 2nd, and 3rd marriages. Sex, love, and relationships were, and still are, off limits topics for discussion. A large issue were the examples set to me during very impressionable years of my life. I can remember being as young as 11 or 12, and being told by women in my family that men are horrible, rotten, unreliable, and that I should focus on my career and have little/nothing to do with men because it will only cause grief. My father is perhaps the least affectionate person I know. And again, the only open affection is between women and children. It's as if my family views PDA of any kind as being inappropriate. Add in negative opinions of men, and merciless bullying in school. Though I can say that as a child, I was given a lot of affection by both parents, and other relatives as well. School had an especially profound effect on me. Rarely did I have a friend of any kind. I was made fun of, ostricized, everything. No boy ever had an interest in me. It's fair to say I harbored bitterness into my adult years as a result. It's a wonder I even let this guy into my heart. I felt incapable of being loved or wanted. My thought was always, "who would want this?". So, my natural "signal" was disbelief. I always thought he was joking, or making it up. The irony is that he and I are both affected by the same disorder. However, I ended up less disabled. He knows the details of my past. Part of me wonders if it would ever be appropriate to bring up the subject of change, and our relationship again. After all, he now understands why I reacted the way I did, and he first expressed the possibility of a relationship again. I never sent out these signals in a way of being personal- that is, to send the message that I only want friendship with him, personally. It was purely unintentional. I did what I knew how to do. As for trying to send out different signals now, fear holds me back. I try to remain positive and friendly, but I don't know where to go from there. I'd love to attempt mild flirting perhaps, nothing over the top or provocative though. But my fear of his reaction holds me back. Perhaps trying small steps in that direction when he and I are face to face might be an idea, non-verbal communication. And again, I have an instinct that I should not let go. Primarily, because I see a future with him. But also, as I mentioned, being disabled I think gave me this innate quality of wanting to try EVERY possible soluntion before abandoning a task.
carhill Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 IMO, think about that part of yourself which impelled you to overcome your disability and go on to achieve the ability and credentials to help others. What is that? Apply the same part of you to relationships. Have confidence in what YOU want, both for yourself and to give to another. I found that simple truth to be the most important factor of change for myself in interpersonal relationships. People who value me and are healthy for me respond to those "signals". Lastly, although unpopular here on LS, give him some credit for insight. He might already be feeling changes in your demeanor and perceptions of him, but is playing that off against the real world behaviors he observes. For me, when such inputs don't match, I get the confusion of what I call "mixed signals" and I default to "friend mode", which is nearly always safe. This dynamic is one of the frustrations I have with my female friend, in that we sometimes end up tiptoeing around each other, since we have similar personalities and sensitivities. It's almost like we know what each other is thinking but we don't trust that we know Sound dumb? Hey, welcome to my world IMO, you're going to have to be proactively physically affectionate in order to get him to switch. He'll see the change when he looks in your eyes. The key is you have to feel open. He'll see this. Well, at least I do. I don't think I'm extraordinary in that regard. After a bit of this over time, gauging his reaction, talk to him about it. Tell him you're feeling "differently" now and ask him about his perspective (I'll slap you if you say the word perspective ). See how it goes.
Author cek Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 IMO, think about that part of yourself which impelled you to overcome your disability and go on to achieve the ability and credentials to help others. What is that? Apply the same part of you to relationships. Have confidence in what YOU want, both for yourself and to give to another. I found that simple truth to be the most important factor of change for myself in interpersonal relationships. People who value me and are healthy for me respond to those "signals". Lastly, although unpopular here on LS, give him some credit for insight. He might already be feeling changes in your demeanor and perceptions of him, but is playing that off against the real world behaviors he observes. For me, when such inputs don't match, I get the confusion of what I call "mixed signals" and I default to "friend mode", which is nearly always safe. This dynamic is one of the frustrations I have with my female friend, in that we sometimes end up tiptoeing around each other, since we have similar personalities and sensitivities. It's almost like we know what each other is thinking but we don't trust that we know Sound dumb? Hey, welcome to my world IMO, you're going to have to be proactively physically affectionate in order to get him to switch. He'll see the change when he looks in your eyes. The key is you have to feel open. He'll see this. Well, at least I do. I don't think I'm extraordinary in that regard. After a bit of this over time, gauging his reaction, talk to him about it. Tell him you're feeling "differently" now and ask him about his perspective (I'll slap you if you say the word perspective ). See how it goes. In response to your first question, I'd have to say that part of me is determination. Perhaps I need to apply more determination to myself and the relationship/friendship with this guy? It's interesting you mentioned mixed signals, as I have received PLENTY from him, even after his desire to be only friends, and even now at times. There were conversations that were friendly and "platonic" in nature. Other times we would flirt, and the conversation would become a bit provacative. Then there were more serious discussions, often regarding our relationship. We would discuss where we made mistakes, and apologize for them. He has said things such as threatening to hurt any guy that would dare to hurt me. He was the one to first say that perhaps a relationship between us could still be possible. Most recently, he even asked if I would consider relocating closer to him. I have heard that men typically have a "provide and protect" mentality. Could it be the discrepancy between our disabilities that makes him uncertain of what he really wants? Remember, he and I have the same disorder, however, I am more able-bodied than he is. I will be seeing him again, face to face soon. I'm hoping to send out the correct signals. Though I do not want to go over-board. I'm not quite sure what gestures would be appropriate. Do I, perhaps, hug him in a way that gives a "more than friends" signal, idk, a longer lasting embrace? Should I try flirting with him, or even dare to try to kiss him? I also thought about trying to discuss the relationship with him again at this time. Before, we were unable to do so face to face. Is it appropriate to bring up the discussion? As crazy as it may sound, I wish I could even ask him if we could "re-live" those moments/discussions where I responded more as a friend than a girlfriend. I KNOW my responses would be 100% different this time. I understand your advice about being proactively physically affectionate. I want to take those risks, but I also want to save myself from as much rejection or embarrassment as possible.
Author cek Posted March 5, 2009 Author Posted March 5, 2009 Carhill, I'm working on the advice you have given me most recently. I recently took a bit of a risk. He and I aren't able to see each other very often due to scheduling and a bit of distance. However, I may have mentioned that several months ago, I admitted to him my feelings of love for him. That was when he admitted that he felt the same way, though neither of us realized it at the time. Anyway, he had more recently made a comment that I would eventually move on, and accept the change to only a friendship. After the recent discussions, and his openess to a possible reconciliation, I wrote to him that my feelings have not changed, and I would not be able to move on and accept the change to only a friendship. Here is what has changed though. The first time I admitted that I love him, I was very afraid of his reaction, and actually experienced light-headedness and difficulty breathing. I felt that I had made a mistake by telling him, and even apologized for admitting my feelings. This time, I did none of that. I felt quite confident in re-admitting my feelings, and had no physical reaction (light-headedness/shortness of breath). Nor did I apologize for feeling this way. I realized that regardless of his feelings, I believed he had a right to know about them, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. Perhaps this is the kind of confidence that will send out the right signals this time.
carhill Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 IME, talking about your feelings calmly and deliberately is a healthy way to have a dialogue, as long as your partner is open to that kind of sharing. If you're on the same page wrt open and honest sharing, understanding and resolution can result. I practice this technique on female friends and find it to work quite well. They appear to respond positively, even when I offer challenges. They seem more open to examining those challenges. No conclusions as of yet. My wife and I aren't really on the same page so I don't know if this communication tool is effective with her or not. I get glimpses of attraction and intimacy which fade into her emotional distance. I don't "act" anymore, rather respond how I feel. Much healthier Keep us posted on your progress. All good things take time.
Author cek Posted March 5, 2009 Author Posted March 5, 2009 IME, talking about your feelings calmly and deliberately is a healthy way to have a dialogue, as long as your partner is open to that kind of sharing. If you're on the same page wrt open and honest sharing, understanding and resolution can result. I practice this technique on female friends and find it to work quite well. They appear to respond positively, even when I offer challenges. They seem more open to examining those challenges. No conclusions as of yet. My wife and I aren't really on the same page so I don't know if this communication tool is effective with her or not. I get glimpses of attraction and intimacy which fade into her emotional distance. I don't "act" anymore, rather respond how I feel. Much healthier Keep us posted on your progress. All good things take time. I hope resolution does result. I do find it to be a step in the right direction. At least this time, I wasn't hyperventilating and spending the night awake, worrying if I'd made a mistake by admitting my feelings to him. Even though it was through written word, I still believe, at least hope, that my confidence showed through in my writing. It is often quite difficult, IMO, to express confidence, tone of voice, etc. through written word, as opposed to spoken word. However, if one takes the time to carefully express themselves in their writing, I think those things can still be expressed. I hope so, anyway. I did tell him that unlike the first time I admitted that I love him, I was not going to feel sorry in any way that I had admitted this to him. I can say that it is a huge step for me, personally. The "old me" would have been worried sick what his opinion of me was, if he thought I was too needy, desperate, or a wreck. I would have worried that I had made a mistake by admitting my love for him, and most likely would have written him back telling him to disregard the message, and praying that I would not have ruined the current friendship. But the "new me" is not afraid of any of this. I sent the message, and didn't worry what his opinion of me would be. I knew and felt deep down that I had not made a mistake by admitting my love again. In fact, I felt that admitting my love was a positive thing to do. If you recall, he had made the comment that I would eventually move on. I felt it was best to calmly remind him of my feelings, and tell him that I would not move on. Also recall that there have been conflicting messages between remaining friends, and possibly reconciling. Of course I hope to reconcile . Knowing that this is a step towards the "new me", I am hoping that the writing expressed the new confidence in myself. Unfortunately, I also had a few negative experiences recently, with family and friends, that I wanted to tell him about. You see, he has always been the type of guy who wants to know the good/bad/ugly parts of a woman's life, especially if she is a good friend or potential girlfriend. It was quite the step for me to even tell him some of the "skeletons in my closet". It only makes that "fine line" between overly emotional and needing to vent to a friend, that much finer. I only hope that one or both events, will start to show the "new me".
carhill Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Start with the writing, but move forward to clear and calm eye contact and the spoken word. Trust me, it's a difference you will love
Author cek Posted March 6, 2009 Author Posted March 6, 2009 Start with the writing, but move forward to clear and calm eye contact and the spoken word. Trust me, it's a difference you will love In your opinion, have I made any mistakes in my writing? Especially knowing that I wrote both about my feelings for him, and a recent familial disagreement, within a day of each other. I'm not sure why, but he has not spoken with me at all in about a week. I know his schedule, and he is quite busy. We normally speak through a specific online instant message system. More recently, I've seen him on a different instant message system (to which I also belong) and attempted to contact him, receiving no response. I don't know if he does not recognize my user name (since we normally correspond on a different system with different user names) or if he is purposefully ignoring me. As for scheduling, I know he has a week off begining Monday. Perhaps he is tying up loose ends before then. He and I do not get to speak face to face very often, as there is some geographic distance between us. I will be spending a significant amount of time near his area, furthering my medical career. During the most recent discussions of our relationship, he had asked me if I would consider making that transfer sooner rather than later. I am hoping that with this upcoming week off, he and I will have more opportunities to speak. Even if he is unable to answer the phone, I do know that he does listen to all of his messages. And he did read both of my messages that I wrote to him. If you recall, the first message regarding the status of my feelings for him, and the second regarding the familial dispute that had occured. I know he read both of them, although I received no response to either. Perhaps the first written message shook him a bit. I do not believe he was expecting that. I'd like to move forward to spoken word with him, however I am not sure how to interpret this current lack of contact. Remember, there was never any agreement, or even discussion of NC. In fact, the exact opposite occured. He had originally told me that he wanted a friendship to remain so that he would not lose me forever, and admitted to feeling quite distraught the night he told me he only wanted a friendship. Later there were comments that perhaps we had attempted a relationship under unfavorable circumstances. And most recently, he understood why and how my past affected my responses in the relationship, and commented that perhaps a relationship could still work out, even apologizing on more than one occassion for hurting me by deciding to only have a friendship. I did not prompt him in any way, nor did I ask for an apology. This was a sincere apology on his part, which I do believe was heartfelt. Then there were other comments that we should remain only friends, and I would eventually move on with my life. However, it seems that there are more comments that the relationship could work out, as opposed to comments that we should remain simply friends. I honestly believe that he is conflicted on some level. However, I do not know on what level, nor why he is/would be conflicted. The other thing I find puzzling is that he gets rather upset hearing about the familial disputes I've had. It is not his family. No one is or ever has acted in a negative manner towards him. He only hears what I tell him has happened to me. And he finds it very upsetting. Perhaps it could be disturbing to hear for him, as he has never had to experience such familial turmoil? He does know that on one occassion, a member of my family was upset with him. It almost seems as though after he found out about that, he sort of "backed down" from the idea of a reconciliation. Though I did bring it up later, after this incident, and he still responded that it is a possibility. I could be overanalyzing everything. All I know for sure is that my instinct is telling me not to completely let go. I have a nagging "gut feeling" that this is not completely over, and I should not simply give up and lose hope for a reconciliation. Could that be the "problem solving" mentality of being a physician? Perhaps it is. Could that be the "disabled" mentality of not giving up on a task until I am 100% certain that there is no hope for completing it? It could very well be that, or any combination of both. Oh well, I suppose such is the life a physician/philosopher LOL .
carhill Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Your writing is fine; very clear and expressive. Since you aren't able to easily see each other, the next time you have occasion to IM and are online at the same time, invite him to call you. If necessary be assertive about that... "I'd prefer...." "I have something I want to tell you about".... etc. Then, flirt a little. Tease him and invite the reverse. You were bullied as a child and perhaps teasing is something you're sensitive to. Accept that, but remember this is a friend whom you trust, not some uncaring stranger. One of you is going to have to make a hole in their busy schedule to visit the other. Plane tickets are cheap. Actions speak volumes more than words on the screen
Author cek Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Your writing is fine; very clear and expressive. Since you aren't able to easily see each other, the next time you have occasion to IM and are online at the same time, invite him to call you. If necessary be assertive about that... "I'd prefer...." "I have something I want to tell you about".... etc. Then, flirt a little. Tease him and invite the reverse. You were bullied as a child and perhaps teasing is something you're sensitive to. Accept that, but remember this is a friend whom you trust, not some uncaring stranger. One of you is going to have to make a hole in their busy schedule to visit the other. Plane tickets are cheap. Actions speak volumes more than words on the screen I actually will be in his area over the summer for an extended amount of time. To my knowledge, he will be free to talk, visit, etc. What concerns me is the attempt at flirting. We actually flirted quite a bit for being just friends, even crossing the line at times. Then he said he didn't want to go that route unless he is in a relationship. Based on statuses on various social networking sites, it seems to me that he is not in a relationship, but looking for friendship instead. But yet I still have a sick feeling that he only said this to me, and continues to flirt with other girls, even if they are just friends. I have mentioned to him that I would prefer phone conversation, but I have not received any calls, nor has he answered any of my phone calls. As the day gets closer to when I will be in his area, I will definately discuss meeting up again. Perhaps your suggestion that I want to speak specifically on the phone about something might be better, more direct than "I'd prefer". Again, he will be having some time off soon, which I hope will give us the opportunity to talk more. As for my writing, my concern is the subject matter and content, not so much clarity. Did I make a mistake by reitterating my feelings for him, and telling him that they have not changed in the months since I first admitted them? Could that have shaken him a bit? I doubt he expected to receive such a message! Since I know he is currently keeping this as only a friendship, I am not sure how he would react to flirtation. The few times I innocently attempted it, after he stated that he wants to keep that type of discussion within the confines of a relationship, he seemed to change the subject. I know him, and that is his signal that he does not want to discuss that matter. What about reminiscing? If flirtation is still too risky, what about reminders of past memories and inside jokes? If that seems comfortable, then maybe a little flirting would be acceptable. Another idea I've had floating around in my head is a bit more direct. As I've mentioned many times, I only wish showing change were as simple as saying "hey look at me" the way we often would as children. Would it be appropriate to "lay low" on this topic for now (let the last message sink in) and then be more blunt in saying that I have changed and would like the opportunity to show it? I've often wished that I could simply ask him if he would be willing to have those same discussions and encounters again, now knowing that I would respond differently. Is there any harm in asking him that? He is a rather direct, blunt person and prefers people to be equally direct and blunt. Why should I beat around the bush? Should I be so bold as to directly ask if he would be willing to put me on the spot with the same questions/comments (without my prior knowledge of course) almost as a way of "testing" me and my responses to see if they are the same or as different as I claim them to be? My other concern is that he says he wants to know when things are not going well for me. But when there are periods of time when things seem to be in constant turmoil, I feel as though I am dumping on him. I know he likes the "glass 1/2 full" kind of girl. I normally am that way, but it does concern me during the turmoil filled times that I might be again giving off those signals that I am a "glass 1/2 empty" type. If that is true, then I know talking with me will be something he will not be interested in. Then I find myself constantly apologizing. Again, with my background, I often feel that a simple "I'm sorry" is not enough, because it never was before. I need that reassurance from him that it is enough. I may need more reassurance from him than he realizes. I may start a thread regarding the very issue of bullying. It causes such emotional abuse to a person, that takes years to reverse, if reversal is even possible. I think many find their partner to be too needy/clingy, when in fact, he/she simply needs that reassurance more often. Anyone who has been bullied needs the reassurance that they are ok being themselves. They need constant reassurance that their partner is not going to run off, or make them feel inadequate. But I digress. Perhaps I need to be more blunt than I thought. Is any of this ever appropriate to discuss bluntly? Or is this exactly the type of behavior that will be misinterpreted as needy? Should I "lay low" on this topic with him for now? Or am I better off getting it all out in the open now? I am very conflicted by this. On the one hand, I think I may need to be quite blunt, and want to be sure that I am very clear about my intentions. On the other, I am concerned of the consequenses that may arise because of it.
Author cek Posted March 9, 2009 Author Posted March 9, 2009 Well Carhill, I realize my last post was rather lengthy, and perhaps a bit confusing. I am unsure as to why, but he has not spoken with me in approximately one week. I don't know what to make of this! Is he still processing the message I sent him? Could I be over-reacting, and he is merely busy? Or his he intentionally ignoring me for some reason? I'm sure by now, I've crossed into the needy zone but better on LS than towards him. I've attempted small talk, no serious conversation. I've been keeping everything light. And still no response to anything. Recall that he and I were never NC, and I'd be quite surprised if wanted to go that route without telling me. That would not fit his personality. I suppose I am beginning to wonder if I did in fact err by reitterating my feelings for him. Do you think that was a mistake on my part? My intent in telling him was to show that I can be confident and direct, without feeling as though I must constantly apologize for everything. I am hoping that my message to him showed confidence, not neediness. However, it was followed by a message regarding familial turmoil, and prefaced with a message of apology for having pestered him so much. This was when I was in his area for a short trip, and we had some plan to meet, but he never returned any phone calls, text messages, nothing. I recently sent him another message, telling him that the familial dispute had been resolved. I apologized again for the pestering, and reminded him that I would always return the favor if he was ever in such need. He has not been on the social networking site recently, so I doubt that he has even read it yet. I am still unsure as to how direct I need to be. Recall how I wish it were so simple as to essentially re-live those moments where I now KNOW I would respond differently. Can I outright ask such a question of him? Is this something I should wait to do, or get everything out in the open now? You see the conflict stems from a time when he had feelings for both myself and another woman, quite early in the relationship. The other woman had given him mixed signals but seemed to favor a friendship. Once he told her that he and I were a couple she was very upset, stating that she had amorous feelings for him. I do NOT want to be that woman, waiting until he has found someone else to shock him with my feelings. I want my intentions to be VERY clear from the start, and to stay crystal clear. My only concern is when to be direct, and how direct to be.
carhill Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Trust that he understands your perspective. Give him time, undisturbed time, to process it. Refrain from apologizing.
Author cek Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 Trust that he understands your perspective. Give him time, undisturbed time, to process it. Refrain from apologizing. How long do I wait? I know that I had very good news I had to tell him today, since he had first given me the idea to do it months ago. It is very tempting to try talking with him, especially since I know he has the week off, and now would be the ideal time to discuss anything. Yes, I have left comments to him, nothing relationship related, all light-hearted small talk. But they have been few and far between. From my perspective, he seems unphased. He seems to be going on with life as usual, only ignoring me. I wonder if he thinks of it at all, or even cares. I feel as though I could disappear tomorrow and he wouldn't notice, much less care. I have not apologized anymore. I'm trying to commit, at least to myself, that I won't apologize for my feelings. Why should I? Apologize for loving someone? No. I'm not sure how long to wait, as again this is his full week off. Do guys ever act as though they don't care, even though they really do? Could this essentially be an act, acting as though he's living life as usual? I do want him to remember this "admission". Again, I had admitted it once before, a few months ago. This is not new information for him, so I'm not sure what he has to process. At some point, I am hoping to ask him about change. More or less showing him the change I've made. I truly feel like a wreck at this point. I'm constantly wondering what he's doing, thinking, everything. I wonder if he is thinking about what I had said at all, or has he disregarded all of it. I wonder if he's intentionally ignoring me, or has other things he has to do. It drives me crazy! I don't know what to think. And I certainly do not want to make things worse. I blame myself more than anything, and I want to better the circumstances. Call me crazy, or a hopeless romantic, but I would give anything for that possibility of a future reconciliation to become reality. It is incredibly difficult to know I've found the one, but have no choice but to sit back and wait.
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