Star Gazer Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Hasn't this subject been beaten to death already? Or really, wasn't I already beaten to death on this subject?
clv0116 Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 I don't find the men in computer science to be so hung up on a womans educational background, although we do value the ability to have a nice conversation or to share a good book. Some educated people mistake an education for intelligence and drive to be challenged; they are not the same thing.
Trialbyfire Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Hasn't this subject been beaten to death already? Or really, wasn't I already beaten to death on this subject? Oh that's right. You weren't allowed to have any dating preferences.
movingonandon Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 And yet you've been skulking round this forum insulting career women (and anyone who likes them) for the last few weeks at every opportunity. No coincidence that this should come after you've broken up with one. You're so transparent dude. Yeah, I'm learning to be one of those rare PhDs that are able to pull their head of their azz every once in a while and talk smack just like the rest of the world. Also, one would think that they teach the difference between logical and ad hominem arguments in grad school, but obviously the standards keep falling. And since you're apparently so interested in my biographical experience, I should probably clarify that part of the reason for the break up with said career woman is precisely the fact that she obviously didn't have the bollocks to finish her degree in a reasonable time and pull her life together, and still relied on me for emotional and financial support. Which in turn helped me realize that I don't actually necessesarily need this kind of woman to make happy and may create more problems than it will solve. So, eat it.
Star Gazer Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Ah yes, here it is... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t178179/
CommitmentPhobe Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Don't rise to the baiting posts. It's just an inflammatory comment due to the chip on his shoulders. lol, yeah you're right.
IrishCarBomb Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 there is a tendency in people with higher level of education (and/or income) to look down on those that do not have it. Whew!! Glad I never got educated! In fact, I kind of look down on those that are educated because they think they have all the answers, but they really don't know anything. Books r stoopid! Then I realize that neither of us know anything, and we become great friends and live happily ever after--until we start talking about money. The End.
Phoenix11 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Of course I took offense to it, I was being particularly careful to suggest this was what I saw as trend and that it wasn't for all cases. Of course you are entitled to disagree, but what's the point of having a discussion if you're going to take my post and turn it into something that I didn't even say? I also find it outright offensive that you think I went through 5 years of hardship and determination to better serve the public and came to think of my PhD "a dating service", or think anyone else thinks like that. I made quite a clear point, when you raise your economic and educational level why then form relationships with people that don't mix in similar circles and have similar backgrounds? And then throwing in that "If they are a socially well adjusted individual they can merge with different people of different educational backgrounds and cultures.". Where did I even suggest otherwise? This isn't mutually exclusive to forming relationships or wanting a partner that compliments you, which I suggested (and you are entitle to disagree) would be someone with a similar educational background. Whether you like it or not there is a recognised class system. I wouldn't blast a blue collar worker for suggesting that birds of a feather flock together, so what's the difference when I state people with a high educational background tend to attract similar, whether circumstantial or otherwise? We can agree to disagree on this all night. My personal experience fortunately has not been anything like you have described. I live in an area where academia abounds. Individuals of all professions with varied educational backgrounds converge, live and date. I have a friend who is a well known plastic surgeon, who is married to his high school sweetheart whom only has a high school level education. I have yet another friend, a PhD in the field of Biology who travel to a third would country and met a villiage girl who become his bride. If I remember correctly, their educational backgrounds are not on par. Obvisiouly the "circle" of people I am exposed to differs from what you experience to be the "trend".
Tomcat33 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 This exchange reminded me that whether we like it or not, there is a tendency in people with higher level of education (and/or income) to look down on those that do not have it. In my opinion, whether or not one succumbs to this (pretty classless) tendency is one of the most reliable measures of character (or lack of). No more "classless" than wanting to procreate with a sexual partner of specific body type of equal or above looks all in the name of creating desirable progeny. Education level, is just another component of that. The better the package the better the offspring is the idea. We are talking about mating and marriage, not just rubbing elbows with people in day to day life. I don't need to rub elbows with people only in my circles I PREFER the diversity of people of all levels of humanity, for obvious reasons I also prefer to settled down with someone of equal social standing and cultural background. Relationships are hard enough as it is, to also have to add this kind of inequality into the mix. If everyone would be romantically compatible with everyone and we had no standards when it came to any of this stuff how could we even have any desire to better ourselves as human beings? Think of what this would do to advancements in technology and science alone? What incentives would we have to improve or to even get an education? Heck if there is no need for improvement then we would not even be here on this medium having this discussion because this medium would not exist. But not everything in life falls neatly into a category for things to develop as we wish, and we could end up falling for someone that does not fit the category we expect BUT you have to admit that we can certainly steer our fate/luck in such direction so that the odds are closer to what we crave.
Tomcat33 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Fine, I can accept your explanation and calm manner in which you delivered it. Maybe I could have worded my statement differently. Attack gets attack. Heh! I wasn't directly feeling attacked so it's easier to take the highroad when that's the case, I prove to be no better when I feel personally attacked.
amerikajin Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I tend to think that education generally does matter, but perhaps not as strictly as we might think. I think we have to differentiate between someone's general level of intellect which may or may not be reflected by his formal level of education attained. Another point about education is that it often shows more than just intellect; it's another example of someone's personal drive and ambition. Someone who has attained a higher level of education is someone who can make an investment of their own time, energy and money and see the commitment through to the end. I think that a person with a higher level of education generally appreciates it when they meet other people with a higher level of education. It's more of a common understanding of what it took to earn their degree, and to some extent, it's indicative of intellect. I don't really consider myself a snob at all, but I have to agree with what was said earlier on this thread: I would also find it hard to relate to someone who didn't at least have a bachelor's degree. There could definitely be exceptions, I suppose. I think a bachelor's degree is probably where I draw my unconscious line of demarcation -- especially since I have yet to complete my master's. LOL! At the same time, I could see this working in reverse as well. I would not want to date someone who looked down on me or who behaved pompously. I need someone who is educated but down to earth at the same time.
marlena Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 For example...my best friend has his associate degree in early childhood education...and his wife has a master's degree. She's an engineer and he works at a daycare center. He tells me often that he feels inferior to his wife b/c she has a much higher level of education and makes a lot more money. Feeling intellectually inferior to your SO is a bad foundation for any relationship. It eventually leads to a build up of resentment and hostility. The person who is feeling insecure begins to feel even more insecure and is often on the defensive and at times downright cruel simply because he/she often feels the need to denigrate his partner so as to even out the score so to speak. I've seen it happen often. On the other hand, the other partner, the one with a better education, often does look down upon his partner and treats him/her in a condescending way. This, too, leads to resentment. So, yes, I think it is important that both parties are equally intelligent and share a common education level.
Storyrider Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 If you can Google really fast, you don't need to know anything at all. You could have a brain the size of a pea and still come off as dazzling. You just need rapid fingers and a really small Blackberry.
Isolde Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Amerikajin, your post is very well written. One needs more data points than just a degree, but a degree is a good start in indicating intelligence and drive. A bachelor's can be achieved anytime in life. I would actually admire someone who went back to school a bit later to finish up, given that they were doing something useful 18-22 and not just bumming around.
carhill Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Scientists have already connected their brains to the internet and controlled remote computers merely by thinking. Cool stuff. Imagine acquiring the knowledge of a thousand professions in the time it takes to take a leak. Gives new meaning to toilet time Seriously. It's coming. Colleges will be obsolete.
blind_otter Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Amerikajin, your post is very well written. One needs more data points than just a degree, but a degree is a good start in indicating intelligence and drive. A bachelor's can be achieved anytime in life. I would actually admire someone who went back to school a bit later to finish up, given that they were doing something useful 18-22 and not just bumming around. My mother pursued her education while we were young children. My father didn't even finish high school - he dropped out to join the army during WWII. She went on to get her Master's and become a nurse practitioner. He eventually went back to school in his 50s and got a bachelor's in geology. My father did not earn high educational credentials, but he was perhaps the MOST intelligent man I've ever met. He read widely and had a rich and vast panoply of life experience to draw from. He taught me to love learning just for learning's sake. The thing is, I've met tons of people with post baccalaureate degrees who did not really have a love of learning and simply earned their degrees in order to make more money. To them, education is simply a means to an end rather than a lifelong process. To me, that is the big difference.
stillafool Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 With one or two exceptions, it becomes pretty obvious in this thread that women put higher premium on education/achievement, than men . Just sayin' . Maybe here on LS, but not in real life. Educated men want educated women. Years ago, before I completed my degree and only had a high school diploma; I dated and fell in love with an attorney. I was 22 at the time and we dated for a few years. Finally, he told me he wouldn't marry me because I did not have a college degree. He said it was just too important to him that his wife have a college degree for him to settle. He said he would probably never love another woman the way he loved me but he knew it would cause resentment later on. I, at the time didn't want to go back to school, especially if it was only to please him. A year later he married another attorney.
amerikajin Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Finally, he told me he wouldn't marry me because I did not have a college degree. He said it was just too important to him that his wife have a college degree for him to settle. He said he would probably never love another woman the way he loved me but he knew it would cause resentment later on. If he was legitimately concerned that there would be some kind of disconnect caused by a disparity in education, that's one thing, but I think it's pretty dumb when someone knows they're in a great relationship and dumps that person just because they don't have another line on a resume. I think your ex is pretentious and you're probably better off without him. I admit that I do look for education and intellect in a woman, and I probably admit to making a mental checklist to that end. However, if I genuinely appreciated the presence of someone and found them to be fascinating and enlightening in their own right, I wouldn't hold it against them if they hadn't finished school. Some people, for example, drop out of school to pursue business opportunities and end up making the most out of those opportunities. I think it ultimately comes down to the individual circumstances.
Trialbyfire Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Maybe here on LS, but not in real life. Educated men want educated women. Years ago, before I completed my degree and only had a high school diploma; I dated and fell in love with an attorney. I was 22 at the time and we dated for a few years. Finally, he told me he wouldn't marry me because I did not have a college degree. He said it was just too important to him that his wife have a college degree for him to settle. He said he would probably never love another woman the way he loved me but he knew it would cause resentment later on. I, at the time didn't want to go back to school, especially if it was only to please him. A year later he married another attorney. Sounds more like a trumped up excuse, since he was fully aware of your education, previous to entering the relationship. Let's pretend that he did believe this. What kind of person leads another one on, knowing full well they don't meet their criteria? For either reason, you're lucky to have escaped this dip.
Taramere Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I value university education in that it forces you to research and understand subjects that don't really grab your interest. That encourages disciplined thinking, and makes it easier to get to grips with dry but very informative writing styles. It tackles lazy habits that are associated with subjective, irrational, "easy" thinking, and promotes a more objective and considered approach to problem solving. At times I'll read posts from someone who claims to have been university educated, and I find myself wondering if something heavy fell on their head at the graduation ceremony. On the other side of the coin, in real life I've met people who didn't attend university but who do evidently have a very high level of intelligence, read a lot and are capable of absorbing and understanding very dry literature without being forced to do so in an academic setting.
movingonandon Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Maybe here on LS, but not in real life. Educated men want educated women. Years ago, before I completed my degree and only had a high school diploma; I dated and fell in love with an attorney. I was 22 at the time and we dated for a few years. Finally, he told me he wouldn't marry me because I did not have a college degree. He said it was just too important to him that his wife have a college degree for him to settle. He said he would probably never love another woman the way he loved me but he knew it would cause resentment later on. I, at the time didn't want to go back to school, especially if it was only to please him. A year later he married another attorney. Sorry about that . But I think this is an example of too big of a disconnect - a JD in some respects is closer to a PhD than to a Master's, so essentially there was 3 degrees gap between you two. That said, I still think he's an idiot for terminating a good relationship (as you say) because of that. Or, maybe not an idiot, but a fellow more concerned about what his atty colleagues and partners and their trophy wives will think of him next to a girl with a HS, than about what is really important for him in a relationship... Or, maybe he didn't really love you in spite of what he said. Not to mention that you were super young - what could possibly prevent you from getting a college degree while in a relationship/marriage with him - which you did later on anyway?!?!?
clv0116 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 My father ... was perhaps the MOST intelligent man I've ever met. He read widely and .... He taught me to love learning just for learning's sake. It always disturbs me when a job applicant comes in thinking their education is 'complete' because they have a Masters degree. No one should ever stop being hungry for knowledge.
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