Yet another "what iffy" type thingy

[not_a_happy_camper]

ok, see I found out last week that my ex who dumped me just over 3 months ago is still finding the break-up very hard. I confused this (or took what I wanted from it...............) for him possibly having regrets...........about the break-up or the way it happened, I don't know. It possibly is, I'm not sure. I started to think, ooooooh maybe he wants me back.........so I needed to slap myself across the head and say no, do NOT get your hopes up. Bad week to find out with all the lovey dovey music, and flowers. Puke.

 

Anyway, from everything I read here, it always seems to be the opinion that the dumper has detached a long time before the break-up. In this way, they have accepted it, and are in a better position to move on. And I can see the logic, it makes so much sense. And I guess I tried to look at it from that point of view, in relation to my relationship and break-up. I guess it made it easier to get over it that way, believing that person no longer cares. And coupled with NC, it helped.

 

I found out about how my ex was coping (or not coping? I don't know............He blurted out how hard he was finding it to a friend while drunk on his birthday last week) last week from another friend. Third hand info, not sure how accurate as a result, but she told me because she felt bad for me that I thought he just didn't care, when it seems I still mean a lot to him. Finding this out, I guess has set me back. And set me to still caring a lot about how he feels, even though this was his decision.

 

I know no one can tell me what he thinks or feels right now. It seems he's still single. I'm sure said friend would have indicated otherwise if not. I guess what I'm asking is..................

 

Does acceptance of a break-up mean you truly move on? or is it still possible to feel pain?

 

Obviously I have little information to go on from what my friend said. But I thought my ex would be over it and moved on since he did the breaking up.....................is it possible he hasn't moved on? Might want me back?! I'm hoping to meet up with him soon.................and hoping to do so with no expectations. still can't help but wonder.

[BCCA]

Does acceptance of a break-up mean you truly move on? or is it still possible to feel pain?

 

It's kind of like when you've had a pet for a really long time, and they get sick, and need to be put down. As much as you hate to see them go, its best for them in the long run. Its kind of the same thing.

 

Even though he may have realized that you arent what he was looking for long term, it still sucks to go from having someone who cares, to having nothing and the person you just broke up with hating you. And truth be told, I'm sure he still gets lonely and I'm sure it wasnt an easy decision to end things. It rarely is.

 

Even if he hasnt moved on, as in, with someone else, he all but certainly has moved on from the idea of you two being together. Otherwise, he would have called you and talked about getting back together. He hasnt, so take from that what you will.

 

Also, why are you seeing him? Or even wanting to? Thats a bad idea, and I know you want to believe that you wont have any expectations, but thats litterally impossible. You do expect something, or you wouldnt want to see him. If you didnt care and had truly moved on, when/if you see him would be irrelevant.

[not_a_happy_camper]

Does acceptance of a break-up mean you truly move on? or is it still possible to feel pain?

 

It's kind of like when you've had a pet for a really long time, and they get sick, and need to be put down. As much as you hate to see them go, its best for them in the long run. Its kind of the same thing.

 

Even though he may have realized that you arent what he was looking for long term, it still sucks to go from having someone who cares, to having nothing and the person you just broke up with hating you. And truth be told, I'm sure he still gets lonely and I'm sure it wasnt an easy decision to end things. It rarely is.

 

Even if he hasnt moved on, as in, with someone else, he all but certainly has moved on from the idea of you two being together. Otherwise, he would have called you and talked about getting back together. He hasnt, so take from that what you will.

 

Also, why are you seeing him? Or even wanting to? Thats a bad idea, and I know you want to believe that you wont have any expectations, but thats litterally impossible. You do expect something, or you wouldnt want to see him. If you didnt care and had truly moved on, when/if you see him would be irrelevant.

 

Ok, I see where you're coming from BCCA. The reason I want to see him, is even though I have truly progressed.............yeah still having my ups and downs I know, but I have come a long way from the sniffling mess I was three months ago. I realise I don't need him in my life to be myself, to be whole. And I know I'll have a certain amount of expectations going to meet him. that I can't deny. The reason I want to see him, is that I always felt at the time of the break-up, that we never talked about it, and that had we talked, we could have tried to fix things. Even if it hadn't worked, at least we would have tried. I know he didn't want to talk about it at the time. He gave me every excuse in the book, none specific to the relationship. it seemed unexpected in so many ways. I know that's the nature of these things sometimes, but I can't accept it. I have tried. and I can't. three months later, i'm still asking myself the same questions, questions that only he can answer. no amount of posting here will answer those questions, or asking friends. and I don't ask myself as much as I used to I know, but I need to hear the answers from him. It's going to hurt, and old wounds will resurface. but i've been coming here for two months, and my threads have been pretty repetitive. basically no matter what anyone says to me, I have to see him. We've been NC for most of the three months, bar one email I sent to him saying I'd never be with someone who couldn't make the effort. and three instances of text messages, two of which were initiated by him. so even though I know it will hurt, I still feel that now I am in a better position to handle meeting him. it will drag so much pain up again, I know, but I have nothing to lose. I don't see meeting him as losing my dignity. I'm not going to beg him to come back. I know I made mistakes too. We never got to discuss all that went wrong, and I know we could have made it work. I want closure or a way forward. that's all I hope to gain.

 

I know I haven't moved on, I was wondering about him I guess. Silly to ask, again, he's the only person who knows the answer to that. I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. I have kept wondering if I hadn't sent that email, would things be different. I know what he's like, he's never made a move on a girl himself in the past. and has a big man pride thing going on. I know in an ideal world, if he wanted me back, that email wouldn't matter a damn. I think so many people on this site see things in black and white, instead of looking at each individual case!

[BCCA]

that we never talked about it

 

I went through the SAME thought process as you, litterally the exact same.

 

At the end of the day, though, I realized we didnt talk about it because my ex didnt WANT to talk about it, and I'm guessing that its the same on your end.

 

My advice, just let it go. Dont try and see him for at least another couple of months. In the grand scheme of life, a few months is nothing, and from what you've said, it sounds like youre still pretty bothered by the whole thing.

[not_a_happy_camper]

we've already said we'll meet up. Dunno when. Honestly, I'd rather get it over with. I know I'm still cut up about it, and it's close to the surface. If it worked out that we talked, and reconcile, then cool, but if not I'd rather get my closure sooner than later. I think that's why there's more of a sense of urgency to this! I know a few months is nothing..............when I don't have a job, it's a long time! lots of thinking, and rehashing things no matter how much I try to distract myself. Honestly BCCA, I feel ready to do this. I wouldn't have mentioned meeting up otherwise. he's broke NC more than I have, I've been very good at NC!

[Ronni_W]

Camper,

Why don't you work it from what YOU need and want to move forward without him, and see what your Intuition says about contacting him from that perspective?

 

You have questions. I'm guessing those would exist whether or not he cares about you, or has moved on himself, or has a new g/f, or moves to Timbuktu, or whatever.

 

So, kind of...try to envision an in-person conversation in which you totally do not give a crap about how he's doing and what he's feeling (about you or anything else) and your ONLY purpose for being there is to get your own answers and satisfy your own goal to move forward without him.

Does that make any sense?

Imagine that you get the opportunity to ask him all your questions and get satisfactory answers, and NO MATTER WHAT YOU HEAR, your heart is simply not affected and you do not grow any sympathy or kindness or caring towards him. In fact, the opposite happens and you just don't even have to ask all your questions because you realize how done you are, with him.

 

And then check with your Intuition if it will at all be in YOUR best interest to try to arrange such a meeting with him.

 

If above doesn't make sense, feel free to ask me to "try again" or PM me.

[not_a_happy_camper]

I have been wondering though, how do I play it when we do meet up? My friend who told me my ex is still having a hard time with the break-up can't understand in the first place why we broke up. she has heard both sides, his and mine. it was petty, I know that. I don't want to go into talking about all that happened with him when we do meet, I believe that's the wrong way to go about it. I don't want to be the same way I was when he left me...............crying so hard I couldn't talk. I'll have to bear a brave face! I can do that. I guess I want to look to the future, whether that's with or without him. so do I place my cards on the table from the outset? or do I go along for friendly chat first?

[Ronni_W]

I have been wondering though, how do I play it when we do meet up?

Well, you could use the opportunity to ask your questions. And then you can decide on any "next steps" once you've had time to properly reflect on, and assess, the new info.

That is, set your own agenda beforehand, based on what YOU need and want out of the meeting. Be assertive, and do your part to get the info that you feel is still missing.

[not_a_happy_camper]

Camper,

Why don't you work it from what YOU need and want to move forward without him, and see what your Intuition says about contacting him from that perspective?

 

You have questions. I'm guessing those would exist whether or not he cares about you, or has moved on himself, or has a new g/f, or moves to Timbuktu, or whatever.

 

So, kind of...try to envision an in-person conversation in which you totally do not give a crap about how he's doing and what he's feeling (about you or anything else) and your ONLY purpose for being there is to get your own answers and satisfy your own goal to move forward without him.

Does that make any sense?

Imagine that you get the opportunity to ask him all your questions and get satisfactory answers, and NO MATTER WHAT YOU HEAR, your heart is simply not affected and you do not grow any sympathy or kindness or caring towards him. In fact, the opposite happens and you just don't even have to ask all your questions because you realize how done you are, with him.

 

And then check with your Intuition if it will at all be in YOUR best interest to try to arrange such a meeting with him.

 

If above doesn't make sense, feel free to ask me to "try again" or PM me.

 

Hi Ronni. I've already emailed him about meeting up. I just said if he's ever home, and feels like a coffee, to let me know, if he feels that's too weird, that's ok. When I did that, I thought if he doesn't reply - closure in itself. or if he replies that he doesn't want to meet up - closure. But reply he did, and he said he'd like to meet up, and he'll see me soon. no definite arrangement for now. oddly the tone of the email was more polite than he was when we were together. beside the point! in fact, oddly any contact he's made with me since has been more polite and meaningful than he was when he was with me.

 

you're right that I need to look at it from WHAT I WANT. I guess I'm still trying to figure that out. I'm leaning more towards want another go...............but in saying that, I can go either way. I've been getting happier as time goes by, and know that I can be without him. this is what I mean when I can go either way. I can be happy with him, if he was prepared to make the effort. That remains to be seen. But I'm not going to go in there with the sole intention of putting it out there that I want him back................if he ever does come back, it's with terms and conditions, and I have looked also at where I can improve on things too.

 

The main issue I've had has been about the email I sent him. Where I said I never wanted to be with him ever again. I still stand by much of what I said in the email................I felt that way at the time I sent it. About a month later, I began backtracking, and wondering if I'd done the right thing. That was when the anger towards him subsided. he said when breaking up, he'd probably regret this for a long time. I wish he hadn't said that, and that is something I'd like to address at least. I've been wondering if I shot myself in the foot with that email. I need to clarify what I meant by effort. because again, we never spoke about it. I sent the email because he wouldn't talk, and I thought I'd gain closure, but he sent a reply with new information, and still refused to talk. The point it with email, and text, etc, so much can be lost in the lack of tone. If this is the final time we are to ever meet up, at least I'll know for sure.

 

As to what you're saying about envisioning myself not caring about what he says...................then what's the point in meeting up? I don't know how to do that! can you clarify? I don't know what kind of satisfactory answers I can pretend he'll say, because I genuinely don't know what he thinks. Do you mean I have to know what kind of answers I want, so that I can get closure or a way forward? As in, ask leading questions so that I get these answers?! I was going with open questioning so that I can truly extract from him what he is feeling! Provided he's honest about it all!

[not_a_happy_camper]

Well, you could use the opportunity to ask your questions. And then you can decide on any "next steps" once you've had time to properly reflect on, and assess, the new info.

That is, set your own agenda beforehand, based on what YOU need and want out of the meeting. Be assertive, and do your part to get the info that you feel is still missing.

 

Assertive, YES, I agree. How about displaying lack of emotion.............detachment? Is that what you meant by imagining myself not caring what the answers are? slightly robot like? he always said I was very emotional, he won't be expecting that, it might actually be an easier way of eliciting what he's thinking. maybe he was too afraid to talk before...........I was very upset. and he's not very good at being sensitive! he tends to say things without thinking first.

 

reflection on answers also a great point...................That's it, I wanted to see what his answers to questions were before I even got round to the point of a possible reconciliation. No point going back to a person who hasn't changed of his own accord. will try to piece together an agenda here i think!

[BCCA]

As to what you're saying about envisioning myself not caring about what he says...................then what's the point in meeting up? I don't know how to do that! can you clarify? I don't know what kind of satisfactory answers I can pretend he'll say, because I genuinely don't know what he thinks. Do you mean I have to know what kind of answers I want, so that I can get closure or a way forward? As in, ask leading questions so that I get these answers?! I was going with open questioning so that I can truly extract from him what he is feeling! Provided he's honest about it all!

 

This is why I think as much as you dont want to believe it, you actually have high expectations for this meet up. What do you expect? I think youre expecting that one day, sometime, hes going to just open up and you guys are going to have that talk. Problem is, thats a pipe dream at best. People generally dont break up because they didnt talk, the do it because they dont want to talk anymore.

 

And be honest, you want him back or you wouldnt be worrying about this and posting here. Thats fine, but with that comes the very real risk that he isnt on the same page. Honestly, if you dump someone and regret the decision, youll let them know. If you dont...

 

Just tread lightly. I have a feeling you're going to leave this meeting dissapointed, if not totally pissed. And whatever you do, dont sleep with him.

[not_a_happy_camper]

This is why I think as much as you dont want to believe it, you actually have high expectations for this meet up. What do you expect? I think youre expecting that one day, sometime, hes going to just open up and you guys are going to have that talk. Problem is, thats a pipe dream at best. People generally dont break up because they didnt talk, the do it because they dont want to talk anymore.

 

Ok BCCA, I realise that. Look, I know there are so many people here who say that. But for everyone here who says that, there are the same amount of friends of mine saying to me to just contact him. And get things out in the open. And whatever comes of it, leave it at that. The point is, I need, for myself, to hear it from him. I made it pretty clear from that email I sent him, I'm not interested at all. Why would he come back to someone that's not interested? For more rejection? That's how I felt for a long time. I'd had enough of trying with him. that lasted about two weeks, I tried, and it was like peeing against the wind. And then I sent that email. Look, I"m meeting up with him no matter what anyone says here. I"ve made that clear. What I want to know is how to handle it. Sure I have expectations. To a certain extent, but I can talk to other people on this board, and friends, all I like, like I said, whatever the outcome, I NEED TO HEAR FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW IF THERE IS OR ISN"T ANYTHING LEFT. Not from anyone else. Because no one else can speak for him. Maybe he doesn't want to talk anymore. Fine. I'll find that out for myself when I see him.

 

And be honest, you want him back or you wouldnt be worrying about this and posting here.

Thats fine, but with that comes the very real risk that he isnt on the same page. Honestly, if you dump someone and regret the decision, youll let them know. If you dont...

 

I've not denied at any point that I want him back BCCA. But I said I can go either way. I'm strong enough to handle this. I know that if I can handle the last three months the way I did, especially the first month after the break-up, I can handle anything life throws at me, because that month was hell. It can never get as bad as that again. I know there is a very real risk he's not on the same page. I"m not going into this all naive, rose tinted glasses and thinking oh my god, he must want me back if he wants to meet up. Of course I dont think that. For god's sake, I know I'm going to be sh*tting a brick before we meet up, because I know the possible, hell even probable outcome, is that he won't want me back. That's fine. but nothing is more final than hearing it out loud. I need to do this for myself. All other approaches have not worked.

 

Just tread lightly. I have a feeling you're going to leave this meeting dissapointed, if not totally pissed.

 

Yeah, but I'll bounce back. I've come on in leaps and bounds since the break-up. I wouldn't even be approaching meeting up with him if I didn't feel I could handle it. Believe me, I'd been wanting to contact him so much sooner. I put it off and put it off until such times as I felt I could handle it. I know I may leave it disappointed. Believe me, I know what is at stake.

 

And whatever you do, dont sleep with him.

 

Absolutely no chance of this happening whatsoever. Not going to put myself in a situation where that could happen. Meeting somewhere public and neutral. I'm being cagey about meeting up, it mightn't sound like it here, but I"m not going in with my heart on my sleeve.

 

.......................

[Ronni_W]

Assertive, YES, I agree. How about displaying lack of emotion.............detachment? Is that what you meant by imagining myself not caring what the answers are? slightly robot like? he always said I was very emotional

Well, you can act assertively without coming across as emotionless or robotic.

If by "detached" you're imagining "calm, feminine and sophisticated"...YEAH! That's exactly what you want to present. Which, of course, is the total opposite of being overly emotional and falling to pieces if/when you hear something that doesn't match with what you want or expect.

YOUR reaction ought not be dependent on whether or not HE thinks before he speaks, or if he speaks insensitively or with consideration.

 

What you want to aim for is total management of your own "stuff" -- thoughts, words, responses, body language, facial expressions, etc. No matter how socially inept HE is being, you want to be in control, serene and poised.

 

You can say, "Wow...that just hit me weirdly, give me a second to process it." Or you can say, "Hhmmm...never thought of that, let me think before I answer."

And if you're feeling like your control or emotions are getting away from you, just excuse yourself and go do some deep breathing and counting to 10 in the washroom. Whatever you do, don't just sit there and freak out and come across like some undisciplined 3-year old. Get where I'm going? Act UP to the situation, don't let it (or him) drag you down.

 

As to what you're saying about envisioning myself not caring about what he says...................then what's the point in meeting up? Do you mean I have to know what kind of answers I want, so that I can get closure or a way forward? I was going with open questioning so that I can truly extract from him what he is feeling!

YOU need to get some clarity about YOUR point of the meeting. (I thought it was to ask your questions.) And that becomes the whole point. You don't get invested in his answers, or his thoughts, or his feelings. Your whole focus is JUST to get your questions out. Not even answered by him, JUST asked by you.

 

As you said, you don't know his answers. And, because you can't control those or his actions or anything else that is only in his power, then you only set yourself up for disappointment and frustration if you go in thinking that you can "extract" his honest feelings and thoughts from him.

 

Same problem even if you do know what kind of answers you want. You only have power over the questions. The real deal is to know that you MUST find your closure in WHATEVER answers you get. Period.

 

So. You ask, "If I hadn't sent that email, do you think things might have been different?" And he answers, "No." BAM! Closure. Thank you.

Or. You ask, "If I hadn't sent that email, do you think things might have been different?" And he answers, "Yes." BAM! Closure. Thank you. And then you might follow-up his 'yes' answer with, "Is it too late for us, now?"

And whatever he answers...BAM! Closure. Thank you.

 

It does not matter if his answers are lies or truths. ALL his answers are your closure...because that is ALL you are going to get from him and wanting more from him than he can/will give you, will make you go insane.

 

You're not invested in the answer, you're invested in asking your questions and getting closure. (Or whatever will turn out to be YOUR true purpose for the meeting. Just keep in mind that it HAS to be something that is WITHIN YOUR control...not dependent on his thoughts, answers, attitude, etc.)

[not_a_happy_camper]

Well, you can act assertively without coming across as emotionless or robotic.

If by "detached" you're imagining "calm, feminine and sophisticated"...YEAH! That's exactly what you want to present. Which, of course, is the total opposite of being overly emotional and falling to pieces if/when you hear something that doesn't match with what you want or expect.

YOUR reaction ought not be dependent on whether or not HE thinks before he speaks, or if he speaks insensitively or with consideration.

 

What you want to aim for is total management of your own "stuff" -- thoughts, words, responses, body language, facial expressions, etc. No matter how socially inept HE is being, you want to be in control, serene and poised.

 

You can say, "Wow...that just hit me weirdly, give me a second to process it." Or you can say, "Hhmmm...never thought of that, let me think before I answer."

And if you're feeling like your control or emotions are getting away from you, just excuse yourself and go do some deep breathing and counting to 10 in the washroom. Whatever you do, don't just sit there and freak out and come across like some undisciplined 3-year old. Get where I'm going? Act UP to the situation, don't let it (or him) drag you down.

 

This is exactly the way I'd hope to present myself on the day! Poised....

[not_a_happy_camper]

YOU need to get some clarity about YOUR point of the meeting. (I thought it was to ask your questions.) And that becomes the whole point. You don't get invested in his answers, or his thoughts, or his feelings. Your whole focus is JUST to get your questions out. Not even answered by him, JUST asked by you.

 

Clarity. see here's the trouble. How do I remain unaffected by his answers, when I'm going in there with, an open mind as such? I want closure or a way forward with him. Way forward with him, depends on his answers, right?

 

As you said, you don't know his answers. And, because you can't control those or his actions or anything else that is only in his power, then you only set yourself up for disappointment and frustration if you go in thinking that you can "extract" his honest feelings and thoughts from him.

 

Same problem even if you do know what kind of answers you want. You only have power over the questions. The real deal is to know that you MUST find your closure in WHATEVER answers you get. Period.

 

I see what you mean. I might not even get honest answers, I realise that. I know I'm just going to have to take what I get, and accept that.

 

So. You ask, "If I hadn't sent that email, do you think things might have been different?" And he answers, "No." BAM! Closure. Thank you.

Or. You ask, "If I hadn't sent that email, do you think things might have been different?" And he answers, "Yes." BAM! Closure. Thank you. And then you might follow-up his 'yes' answer with, "Is it too late for us, now?"

And whatever he answers...BAM! Closure. Thank you.

 

Last part there doesn't make sense to me. If he did say it's not too late, then is that not a way forward as opposed to closure? I agree with the rest though, I'm going to have to take whatever answers I get, because I know I'll never know everything, we can't talk about everything. And the last thing I want to do is push him too hard.

 

 

You're not invested in the answer, you're invested in asking your questions and getting closure. (Or whatever will turn out to be YOUR true purpose for the meeting. Just keep in mind that it HAS to be something that is WITHIN YOUR control...not dependent on his thoughts, answers, attitude, etc.)

 

Ok, now I just have to decide what I want to ask for sure.

[Ronni_W]

How do I remain unaffected by his answers, when I'm going in there with, an open mind as such?

 

Your open mind is crucial to your well-being . Your open mind says, "I am open to WHATEVER answer I receive. I will accept EVERY answer, and then I will make a NEW decision/choice based on the new information I just got from that answer."

 

If he did say it's not too late, then is that not a way forward as opposed to closure?

 

Well, it is both. The closure is, "Aha! Now I have the answer to my question about whether or not there might be a second chance." BAM! Thank you.

 

Then you make a new decision/choice. It could be the sudden realization, "Ah, screwitt, I don't want a second chance, anyway." Or. It could be, "I'm really glad to hear that. Do you think we've done enough individual growth to ensure that our past issues and problems won't become our future issues and problems?"

 

Ok, now I just have to decide what I want to ask for sure.

 

Yep! Take your time with that. I'd suggest you do it in context of what YOU want for your future...without him, more importantly than with him.

Even. Make the assumption that there is NO chance for a second chance. NOW make sure that you ask ALL the questions that, once you get his answers (whether truth or lies), you'll feel 100% satisfied that ALL your unasked questions have finally been asked, and there isn't anything that you want to know about the break-up, that you didn't ask.

 

Delay meeting with him rather than go in there unprepared, and with a half-assed "list" of questions. (Sure, take it with you. When you go to the washroom, check it and make sure you're on track to achieving your goal of asking your questions.)

 

Hugs and good luck.

[not_a_happy_camper]

Thanks Ronni, that makes so much more sense to me now. you're right, I should go in there assuming there's no chance of getting back together. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, right?! There were things I did too that I felt bad about. I don't know if you've read any of my other threads. I won't go into them now, it'll take too long. What do you think of my apologising for my mistakes? I don't want to apologise for the way I behaved in response to his actions in the end, my behaviour was justified. But I can see where I went wrong too. But at the time I threw all the blame at him, even though I didn't want things to end, and he dumped me. So should I put it out there that I see where I went wrong too? Or do I wait and get answers to my own questions first?

[Ronni_W]

What do you think of my apologising for my mistakes?

I'd suggest that you focus on what is most important FOR YOU to get out of the meeting, and ensure that you achieve that goal first.

 

To me, yes, it would be self-responsible to say something like, "Of course I realize that I contributed to our relationship breakdown, too. I didn't always act up to my highest potential, either. I am sorry that I blank, blank and blanked." And leave it at that.

 

Of course, *IF* you both decide to reconcile, then you will want to discuss, at some future meeting, and make sure that you won't be blank, blank and blanking in your future relationship, and that he won't be resorting to his old, crappy behaviours and attitudes, either.

 

BTW, though, crappy behaviours and attitudes are NEVER "justified" -- they are just indications that WE lost our own control, poise and composure. We always also have the choice to somehow interrupt things so they don't escalate -- walk away, or change the subject, or count to 10 in our head.

 

It's not that we don't engage in crappy behaviour -- we all do -- but the self-responsible thing is to own it. "Yeah, I did it. I let the crappy situation get away from me, and I reacted negatively."

To want to blame our loss of control on other people and events outside of ourselves is misguided and inaccurate. We do blame our crap on others, but that doesn't mean it's not just a bunch of BS .

[not_a_happy_camper]

BTW, though, crappy behaviours and attitudes are NEVER "justified" -- they are just indications that WE lost our own control, poise and composure. We always also have the choice to somehow interrupt things so they don't escalate -- walk away, or change the subject, or count to 10 in our head.

 

Ok. Maybe justified was the wrong word! I know I lost control of things. But I saw that he did too, and I reacted to that. I came down on him like a ton of bricks. I hate that I did it. There had been other things I'd wanted to discuss with him. And then he did something silly, nothing major I know looking back, but it seemed like the straw that broke the camel's back. He tried to blame me for his behaviour too, which was what really hurt me. He wouldn't take accountability for his actions. And then I lost control, and fired out everything else I was unhappy with at him in a not so tactful manner. It must have been a shock to him, even though he hadn't been behaving so well towards me for a while. Taking me for granted really. I was so hurt I didn't know how to act. maybe he was too. This is why I really believed if we could have talked we could have sorted it out. Talked calmly.

 

It's not that we don't engage in crappy behaviour -- we all do -- but the self-responsible thing is to own it. "Yeah, I did it. I let the crappy situation get away from me, and I reacted negatively."

To want to blame our loss of control on other people and events outside of ourselves is misguided and inaccurate. We do blame our crap on others, but that doesn't mean it's not just a bunch of BS .

 

He didn't own his behaviour at the time. Blamed it on me. That may not have changed, I don't know. If it hasn't, well then............I don't know. I don't want to bring up all of what happened again, other than to say I'm sorry for my part in it. He did apologise for hurting me. but he didn't apologise for his behaviour? I forgave him because I realised how petty it was. It just all seems so blown out of proportion on both sides. I was going through a rough time then too, wasn't seeing things for how they were.

[Ronni_W]

So, I'm guessing that before you'd even CONSIDER going back with him, you'll make darn-tooting SURE that you won't be taken for granted again, and that he has ALSO learned some better self-management skills, yes?

 

He didn't own his behaviour at the time. Blamed it on me.

So what?

 

You could have said, "Just cos you're blaming me doesn't make it my fault."

Or. "Now you're just acting totally dysfunctional."

Both of those would have been 100% accurate. (Not, "you are dysfunctional (or whatever)", though, "you are acting like a <whatever>.)

 

It's what I've been saying...what you think and feel, and how you act ought not be dependent on how OTHER people are doing their life. Making your behaviour dependent on someone else's ability to stay calm and kind goes against your own best interests -- you just lose your own power, and your own ability to stay calm, kind and poised.

 

Self-management is about being able to maintain YOUR cool and dignity, and act up to the way YOU want to act, regardless of how many dysfunctional freaks you are dealing with at any one time.

 

This is no easy task, and it takes lots and lots of practice. And even after 10 and 20 years of practice, we are still going to "lose it" every now and then. But we lose it because we got triggered and we lost it, NOT because someone "made us" lose it...even though that is how it might feel. In truth, it's more that we "gave it away" than we "lost it" or "it" got taken from us.

[not_a_happy_camper]

So, I'm guessing that before you'd even CONSIDER going back with him, you'll make darn-tooting SURE that you won't be taken for granted again, and that he has ALSO learned some better self-management skills, yes?

 

That's provided he's examined his own behaviour. He did admit in the few days approaching the break-up that he had taken me for granted. How do you know that someone won't take you for granted again though unless you talk about it and give them a chance? But you are right, and I agree, that before I'd consider going back there, we would have to talk about this. Why did he take me for granted? And ways to make sure it won't happen again. I know that if we did get back together, I wouldn't let it happen from my side. In that, if I saw signs of it happening, I've learned from my relationship with him that these things need to be nipped in the bud, rather than assuming they'll fix themselves. something I was guilty of before. Passing things off as a one-off occurrence.

 

 

You could have said, "Just cos you're blaming me doesn't make it my fault."

Or. "Now you're just acting totally dysfunctional."

Both of those would have been 100% accurate. (Not, "you are dysfunctional (or whatever)", though, "you are acting like a <whatever>.)

 

This would have been the right thing to do. Instead what I did say was "no, it's not my fault, you should have done this, this and this." Basically saying he could have handled things better. He said in the end, I was more concerned with who was right rather than trying to resolve the issue. And he was right. I was so hurt at the time that I couldn't see that. I just couldn't understand how he couldn't take accountability for his own behaviour and instead was blaming his actions on things I had said. Again, I wanted to talk about this. oh it's all so stupid. I wish we could sweep it all under the carpet and start over. clean slate.

 

 

It's what I've been saying...what you think and feel, and how you act ought not be dependent on how OTHER people are doing their life. Making your behaviour dependent on someone else's ability to stay calm and kind goes against your own best interests -- you just lose your own power, and your own ability to stay calm, kind and poised.

 

I know. I'm scared of being hurt again though. or hurting him anymore. I realise I hurt him too. All I could see at the time was my hurt. I do have a thread about this from a while back. can't remember what I called it, it's about five pages long though, it's got most of the background to all this if you care to read it!

 

 

The thing is also, that I know I wanted him to be accountable for his part. Like I said, he apologised for hurting me. But didn't apologise for his behaviour..........And said he couldn't guarantee he wouldn't treat me that way again. It was basically that he lost his temper and let that control his behaviour. He had invited me to a family event. he was humming and hawing over it all week, chopping and changing his mind about it. And then we had a tiff on the phone the night before, because I didn't want to go out, I wanted to be fresh for family thing next day. He claimed I was standing him up, even though he was actually going to meet his friends too. He had wanted to talk to me about things that were going wrong that night. But I only found that out after I sent him the email saying I'd never be with him again. Hence the lack of closure that I'd hoped to gain in sending that email. But the next day, family event was on...........I sat dressed in my kitchen, with presents for the kids, waiting for him to pick me up. He never turned up. never rang. until the next day, when he tried to pretend nothing had happened.

 

all so petty. I feel stupid even saying what happened, because it would have been easy to resolve had there not been other issues too. it seems we'd both wanted to resolve other things too, but then this happened, and everything got blown out of proportion. I hate the way it ended.

[not_a_happy_camper]

this is the long thread with all the necessary info............

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t176783/

[Ronni_W]

Yes, definitely. It is on you to "nip in the bud" any treatment that goes against how you want to be treated. Acting assertively, using positive communication skills, staying in your power, and being mindful of staying calm and poised. (You've been developing your communication skills, yes?)

I just couldn't understand how he couldn't take accountability for his own behaviour and instead was blaming ... I wanted him to be accountable for his part.

 

Those are the kinds of things where you need to give up trying to control it -- what he will and will not hold himself accountable for; what he will and will not apologize for; what he does or does not think and feel; whether he will or will not be honest, etc., etc.

(But I'm sensing that you're already getting this part of it, right? Of knowing your own boundaries, and what is within YOUR power and control.)

 

If he has NOT yet examined his behaviour, and has NOT yet learned some effective anger management/self-control strategies, then your smart move is to say, "No thanks. That will not work for me, in the long run."

 

he apologised for hurting me. But didn't apologise for his behaviour

 

Say what???

What were you looking for from him, do you recall? Without knowing details, that just sounds to me like unreasonable, "spoiled brat", high maintenance behaviour on your part.

 

OTOH, any time somebody gives you this information: "I can't guarantee that I won't treat you like crap in the future" -- RUN, RUN, RUN as fast as you freakin' well can!!! That is GOLDEN information. Run first and, if you must, cry later that it is over.

 

 

Lemme ask you this, though: Are you planning to regurgitate all of this crap on him, at the meeting, at this level of detail? (Or, were you just 'recapping' for my benefit?)

 

I totally agree that a clean slate is desired and necessary. But, even if you don't take it back to him; even if you do just keep recycling this crap in your head, or keep writing about it in your journal or anyplace else, a "clean slate" is impossible.

 

Whether or not you EVER meet up with him, I'd urge you to start working towards a MUCH bigger picture:

We both lacked healthy communication skills, didn't really have good boundaries, were totally clueless about self-management, blamed each other instead of taking responsibility, and had unrealistic expectations and made unreasonable demands. I needed to always be right, and I wasn't assertive enough -- didn't speak out in a clear, kind way for my own needs, wants, preferences and dislikes. And he had some anger/control issues.

 

That's it. Do your best to be able to think and talk about your old, tired, ill-fated relationship in those kinds of terms. Big, broad strokes. Nothing more. THAT was your relationship. Period.

 

Now. If your mind is going, "but, but, yes, but..." that is you needing to be right . Make it stop, tell that voice to shuddup because it is not serving YOU.

 

And, of course, keep working to improve all those areas in which your were unskilled/weak. Before, you didn't have the knowledge and tools to do any better. So, that's fine. You did the best you could (as did he.) Waste of good energy and valuable resources to "hate the way it ended" or feel guilty or whatever else negative about it.

 

It was what it was. Cannot, in any case, be changed. Your feeling crappy about it means nothing and makes no difference. Your feeling optimistic that you can improve your future life (with or without him) because of it, means everything and makes every difference to your happiness and success.

 

And of course, that is your true blessing from the relationship -- this chance that you have right here, to develop and strengthen your healthy life and coping skills. Whether or not you get back together, this opportunity remains yours and will always be a positive in your life, if you do cultivate improved ways of thinking, speaking and doing your Life.

[not_a_happy_camper]

Yes, definitely. It is on you to "nip in the bud" any treatment that goes against how you want to be treated. Acting assertively, using positive communication skills, staying in your power, and being mindful of staying calm and poised. (You've been developing your communication skills, yes?)

 

Absolutely. well looking at better ways of tackling issues. This was my first relationship and break-up, his second relationship. So it has been a large learning curve. Learned a lot about me too since the break-up. Been reading a lot about how to communicate in relationships better. Also need to look at how to control my emotions better and cope better. he always said I was too sensitive.

 

I just couldn't understand how he couldn't take accountability for his own behaviour and instead was blaming ... I wanted him to be accountable for his part.

 

Those are the kinds of things where you need to give up trying to control it -- what he will and will not hold himself accountable for; what he will and will not apologize for; what he does or does not think and feel; whether he will or will not be honest, etc., etc.

(But I'm sensing that you're already getting this part of it, right? Of knowing your own boundaries, and what is within YOUR power and control.)

 

Yes. Think that's what a lot of this thread has been about looking at too.

 

he apologised for hurting me. But didn't apologise for his behaviour

 

Say what???

What were you looking for from him, do you recall?

 

For him to stop blaming me for his behaviour. Like he said, he was sorry he hurt me, but couldn't guarantee he wouldn't act in the same way again. I realised this. I did forgive him, he knows that. And I wanted to work on it. he knows that too. I wanted to talk about ways of tackling this, so that should it happen again, we could better deal with it. like actually telling each other what was going on in our heads about the whole thing, taking time-out if necessary (by this, I don't mean going on breaks! I mean like taking a break from an argument and cooling off).

 

Without knowing details, that just sounds to me like unreasonable, "spoiled brat", high maintenance behaviour on your part.

 

I know that. I was going through a rough time, dealing with unemployment, my dad being ill. I know I reacted badly to the whole thing. I didn't know how to handle it. I can look back now and see better ways. And I do want to apologise for my own behaviour too. I didn't do that at the time, and I need to do that.

 

OTOH, any time somebody gives you this information: "I can't guarantee that I won't treat you like crap in the future" -- RUN, RUN, RUN as fast as you freakin' well can!!! That is GOLDEN information. Run first and, if you must, cry later that it is over.

 

In the year and a half we were together, we'd had three major arguments. The other two we got through fine. But his temper definitely came out at those times too. But I was in a better place to handle it. other than the last two months together, things had been great between us. we used to talk a lot more too.

 

Lemme ask you this, though: Are you planning to regurgitate all of this crap on him, at the meeting, at this level of detail? (Or, were you just 'recapping' for my benefit?)

 

recrapping for your benefit! I don't see a point in rehashing everything to him. He won't tolerate it, and most importantly, the whole thing just confuses and frustrates me, so bringing it all up to him again would be counter productive, whatever comes from this meeting up.

 

I totally agree that a clean slate is desired and necessary. But, even if you don't take it back to him; even if you do just keep recycling this crap in your head, or keep writing about it in your journal or anyplace else, a "clean slate" is impossible.

 

I have only rehashed it here to give you a better idea of the situation. the whole story is in the thread I posted the link to above. I've stopped rehashing it myself. stopped writing about it ages ago. I vent here sometimes, rather than venting to him, which has been great to get it off my chest without unwanted confrontation.

 

Whether or not you EVER meet up with him, I'd urge you to start working towards a MUCH bigger picture:

We both lacked healthy communication skills, didn't really have good boundaries, were totally clueless about self-management, blamed each other instead of taking responsibility, and had unrealistic expectations and made unreasonable demands. I needed to always be right, and I wasn't assertive enough -- didn't speak out in a clear, kind way for my own needs, wants, preferences and dislikes. And he had some anger/control issues.

 

That's it. Do your best to be able to think and talk about your old, tired, ill-fated relationship in those kinds of terms. Big, broad strokes. Nothing more. THAT was your relationship. Period.

 

Now. If your mind is going, "but, but, yes, but..." that is you needing to be right . Make it stop, tell that voice to shuddup because it is not serving YOU.

 

I know this. And that's why I don't want to rehash things to him. I realise where mistakes were made, on both sides. Looking back over the nitty gritty details will serve no purpose only to further confuse matters. And there's probably no point in even going into what you've said about the relationship (which I know to be true.........) unless the matter of reconciliation does arise, is there?

 

And I'm definitely learning from this.

[Ronni_W]

PERFECT!!!

From where I'm sitting, you are doing a super-terrific job of EVERYTHING that is within your control and power, and growing your self-awareness and arsenal of positive life strategies.

I'm sure it has been tough sometimes, but your efforts and rewards are very noticeable. BIG congrats to you, camper.

 

 

Where you were looking for him to stop blaming you, again (refresher), the assertive thing would have been to make your own decisions and choices, according to YOUR own wants and preferences -- "He won't stop blaming me, and that's just fine. What can I do for myself, here?" (walk away, end the relationship, shut-down my faculty of hearing and let him rant at the sky) -- whatever would have brought you back into your power and focusing on what you COULD do that was under your control to do.

 

Yep, I realized the possibility that you were just recapping ('recrapping' -- excellent pun ) for my benefit.

When you get to the point that someone asks, and you just go, "You know what? I totally don't recall the details" and you feel exhausted to even be recalling that you don't recall -- THAT is your Total Freedom Day!

 

Wishing you Freedom, and Love, and Happiness!