Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I see it time and again, people coping from break up, where they've tied their self-esteem and self-respect into the other person. In essence, you've given over control of all your emotions, to someone who doesn't have your best interests in mind. Why do this?
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Optimism. Without it most relationships wouldn't start in the first place. Long may it thrive.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 Optimism is hope that the person will come back. This is different. This is about being crushed from the break up and wondering if you've still got it, if you're worthy. This is part of the pain of rejection, something that should be viewed from a different perspective. Giving someone power over your ability to believe in yourself, is a zero sum game.
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I thought the question was "why tie your self esteem and self respect into the other person" which was why I replied 'Optimism'. I did not mean Optimism after a relationship has turned to sh*t but was saying that I think the reason we all do this in the first place is due to Optimism which I think is a wonderful thing. If we all looked logically at the situation before we decided to embark on a realtionship with another, tie our values and self image with thiers , then IMO most would probably not bother. Long live optimism, It is IMO the most essentially human tendancy there is.
quankanne Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 because every bit of you wants to believe that you're worthy, but you don't realize it has to come from you ... you fool yourself into believing that if "X believes in me, therefore I am." dumb, but then again, you do it enough times and you start to figure out that your self-worth doesn't come from someone else, it really does come from you.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 An interesting perspective but one I would never enter into. No one holds my self-esteem or self-respect. It's mine. It's not what I meant though, but I appreciate the ambiguity of the opening post. I assumed that the following reference would clarify but if it doesn't, the intent is for people who've done so, to take back their self-esteem and self-respect into themselves, where it belongs or belonged in the first place. I see it time and again, people coping from break up, where they've tied their self-esteem and self-respect into the other person.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 you start to figure out that your self-worth doesn't come from someone else, it really does come from you. Exactly!!! Whether you're with the other person or not, you're still you. You exist, the same person that existed previous to the relationship.
not_a_happy_camper Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I can see what you're saying TBF, but a lot of people don't necessarily tie self esteem and respect into that one person. A break-up is a major blow to a persons self esteem and self respect naturally. and for a good while after it will sting. I don't think it's necessarily that they've tied their self esteem and respect to that person. Because in essence it's the rejection that causes these to plummet, causing the dumpee to question everythingand yes they wonder why they weren't good enough. That's a natural thought, and can be a healthy part of self examination after. there are cases where it becomes obsessive, but that's usually where that person hadn't much self esteem or self respect to begin with. Anyone with healthy self esteem and self respect will realise that sometimes these things are out of our control.
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Ambiguity, I love the English langauge. So you don't tie your own self respect and self esteem in with your current partner ? do you not care what thier opinion of you is ? Is it possible to have a 'Meaningful' relationship where you dont partially tie your own image, your self respect etc with that of your partner, and if it is why would you bother ? isn't part of a 'Meaningful' relationship just that? that part of you merges with the other that you love? , the possible pain you might experience at break up must be worth it , no ? Optimism , just from a different perspective
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 No wuggle, I don't tie it into my partner. We're individuals who want the same things, moving forward in the same direction. I value him for what he brings into the relationship but if he ceases to do so, then I'll value him less. Lessons learned from the past.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 Better that, than a codependent relationship.
CaliGuy Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I see it time and again, people coping from break up, where they've tied their self-esteem and self-respect into the other person. In essence, you've given over control of all your emotions, to someone who doesn't have your best interests in mind. Why do this? Because they are insecure, needy and clingy They've put all of their self-worth and value into someone else's approval of them. The only way out is to love and respect yourself first.
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Or maybe not. IMO in a truly loving relationship one must 'give' part of oneself to the other and 'receive' a part of them in return, That to me is the essence of love. A part of both becomes one. It is easy to be cynical and bear grudges and carry these forward to every relationship we start. I don't want a relationship where we are both going in the same way, I want a relationship where we are both together, through good and bad. If I have to give up a small part of myself to another , that's cool, look at what I get back I couldn't live with myself if I was such a coward as to not give part of myself, so what, I may get hurt. I won't live in fear of the past or the future. Be optimistic
sunshinegirl Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 In every context outside of dating, my self-esteem and self-respect are just fine. Within dating relationships, I've finally figured out that there is a whole lot more of my family background and context that gets mixed in with the men I choose to date. And when the relationships blow up, my particular upset goes far beyond 'simple' rejection by that person, into almost existential levels of self-doubt...because that relationship was (unconsciously) a kind of proxy for parental relationships that went off the rails at some point in my past. I've been working on those family relationships so I can stop burdening my romantic relationships with all the extra baggage. It's not as simple as flipping a switch or just *deciding* not to tie my self-worth to a guy. But it's not impossible to change these patterns, either.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 Because they are insecure, needy and clingy They've put all of their self-worth and value into someone else's approval of them. The only way out is to love and respect yourself first. To give love, you need to have self-respect. Part of giving love is as you've put it to me, being a container that's full, not half empty. Love isn't giving a piece of who you are to the other person. Love is about caring about the other person enough that you want to be with them and want to do things for them, unselfishly. Don't ever allow yourself to be consumed by a relationship, particularly after break up. Take yourself back, if you've done so throughout the relationship. YOU still exist with or without the other person.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 In every context outside of dating, my self-esteem and self-respect are just fine. Within dating relationships, I've finally figured out that there is a whole lot more of my family background and context that gets mixed in with the men I choose to date. And when the relationships blow up, my particular upset goes far beyond 'simple' rejection by that person, into almost existential levels of self-doubt...because that relationship was (unconsciously) a kind of proxy for parental relationships that went off the rails at some point in my past. I've been working on those family relationships so I can stop burdening my romantic relationships with all the extra baggage. It's not as simple as flipping a switch or just *deciding* not to tie my self-worth to a guy. But it's not impossible to change these patterns, either. You're currently working with a therapist to take yourself back...period. Ground and center inside of you, once you've remade your foundation.
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Love isn't giving a piece of who you are to the other person. I hope one day you will realise how wrong those words are, I honestly do.
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 I hope one day you will realise how wrong those words are, I honestly do. And I honestly hope one day you'll realize that codependencies aren't healthy. I truly do because it will free you from believing that you can't live without someone who displays abusive behaviours.
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I don't understand ? where is abusive behaviours mentioned on this thread ?
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 I don't understand ? where is abusive behaviours mentioned on this thread ? I mentioned "lessons learned" in a previous post. I learned not to take abusive behaviours like infidelity, walking away from someone who enacted this on me. In essence, I took myself back and am so glad I did. Without this happening, remaining in the marriage, I would never have met some nice men on the way and now, finally, someone who gives as good as he gets, compatible in so many, many ways.
not_a_happy_camper Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 TBF, you don't need to be codependent to give yourself to another person! Part of love certainly is giving yourself to another person. just not your self esteem or self respect! they do certainly tie in here in a way, because yes that person's opinion of you will matter to you. But having that self respect means that you as a person are strong enough to take anything that is flung at you, both in relationships and outside of them. Love makes you vulnerable to a persons opinion of you................because you give so much of yourself to that person. If you can't give yourself, you can't become vulnerable.....................thus closing yourself off to love. it is in giving that we receive!!! most of the time........................unless SO is a b*****d who taketh away!!!!
Author Trialbyfire Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 TBF, you don't need to be codependent to give yourself to another person! Part of love certainly is giving yourself to another person. just not your self esteem or self respect! they do certainly tie in here in a way, because yes that person's opinion of you will matter to you. But having that self respect means that you as a person are strong enough to take anything that is flung at you, both in relationships and outside of them. Love makes you vulnerable to a persons opinion of you................because you give so much of yourself to that person. If you can't give yourself, you can't become vulnerable.....................thus closing yourself off to love. it is in giving that we receive!!! most of the time........................unless SO is a b*****d who taketh away!!!! If you give your self-respect and self-esteem to another person, yes, it's a codependency.
wuggle Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Sorry, haven't read all your previous threads. I'm glad you managed to extracate yourself from a bad marriage and find yourself in a more suitable relationship with your 'snowman' (know that much from a previous thread ) And good luck to that relationship. I stand by what I have said, to me the essence of a good relationship IS giving a part of yourself to your partner,to not do so does seem too cowardly to me. If my relationship with my wife were to fail (and it won't) I would rather not be in any other relationship at all and stay totally single than start a relationship whilst 'holding back' that most important part of myself. If I get hurt so be it. My wife has a part of me and I her. For better or worse. If that is co-dependancy , that's fine by me. Keep loving, wholeheartedly...
CaliGuy Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Sorry, haven't read all your previous threads. I'm glad you managed to extracate yourself from a bad marriage and find yourself in a more suitable relationship with your 'snowman' (know that much from a previous thread ) And good luck to that relationship. I stand by what I have said, to me the essence of a good relationship IS giving a part of yourself to your partner,to not do so does seem too cowardly to me. If my relationship with my wife were to fail (and it won't) I would rather not be in any other relationship at all and stay totally single than start a relationship whilst 'holding back' that most important part of myself. If I get hurt so be it. My wife has a part of me and I her. For better or worse. If that is co-dependancy , that's fine by me. Keep loving, wholeheartedly... Give of yourself, yes. Just don't base your value or self-worth on their acceptance or rejection of you. Sometimes the stuff just ain't personal.
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