jj33 Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Just venting but xMM is pushing boundaries in business. Am begining to feel the contempt and disdain I probably should have mustered a year and a half ago. Very easy to say no sorry not going to do that or no sorry cant give you that information is confidential but it is really annoying me. And its getting tougher to keep up the facade of we are the best of friends... Ive been able to bury personal feelings (the I should not even be speaking to you after certain of the things that happened after we broke up) for the sake of peace. But by pushing things in business, he makes me think my God how much of a rube (do people still use that word) do you think I am? Just how narcissistic he is has become even clearer. He probably didnt even think that doing what he suggested wouldnt be in my best interest, it wouldnt have been criminal or anything, its just not how I do business. He was just thinking of what is in his best interests and didnt think further. I think I need to take deep breaths and forget about it and not mention it again. Its not worth breaking the peace now. But it makes me so so glad I got out when I did. The further away from the A I get, the more I think, what was I thinking. For all his good qualities, now that I see it all clearly, everything I attributed to the fact that he was married was me making excuses. It wasnt because he was married. Its becaus he is him. I hope he stays with her forever. He seems to think (against all evidence) that if he ever left I would jump at the chance to be with him again. No longer the case. I dont know what if anything he could do to get me to trust him again. Especially after this casual misstep. Its small but it speaks volumes. In his world, its all about him. Just venting. Theres not really anything anyone can say. I feel sorry for him. And I understand now why his W doesnt care if he has an OW. If I lived with that for decades and for whatever reason I didnt want to end the marriage, at a certain point I wouldnt care either. But its sad for him. He cant really have a strong loving relationship with anyone, because he doesnt know how to look further than his own needs. I never thought he could get me to a point where I had disdain for him. But hes persistent. He finally did it. And I am disappointed. That relationship broke every boundary I ever had. And I wanted to maintain good feelings about "what was" on some small level. But there you go. Life goes on.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Ya know JJ, MM thing aside, I think that its incredible how limerence can cause one to over look obvious problems. When someone is unavailable for whatever reason (emotional, personality disorders, unrequited love, ect...) then the OP (limerent one) gets to create the fantasy of what might be. It seems everywhere you read on this board, people treasure what might be for what is. Its amazing how when that limerent fog lifts that all of a sudden, those deal breakers become so obvious and one wakes up iwth a WTF was I thinking epiphany. The things that were so easily overlooked, the rain forrest growing out of his nose, the narcissism that was mistaken for self confidence, are right there as they always have been but now they are disgusting. I think that this is true in other situations as well, not just interpersonal relationships. The fantasy of what might be always, it seems, trumps reality. You are right to pity him. He will NEVER, can NEVER, know the real thing.
Author jj33 Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 It is incredible isnt it. We look over so much. And the what might be is always perfect in our minds. And no. He is confused by the real thing. It was very disorienting for him. When he succumbed to it, it thrilled him and freed him but it was very scary for him. Its so much easier for someone like that to live at arms length with other people. And that would still be the case if he divorced. Im not even sure years of therapy would make any real change. Its like freeing a caged animal and having them sit in the cage looking confused. His loss. Im just glad I can see it now. God knows how much I overlooked when we were together. What infuriates me is that much as I felt like he treated me well overall when we were together, and that I stood up for myself as best I knew how (now I know better) I must have been a total doormat for him to even think of making the request he did so casually expecting me to happily oblige. What a fool I was...
KismetGirl Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 To be honest, this post is refreshing. I know it sucks to think "why didn't I notice what a total sh*t he was before?", but if you're at that point where you can feel that way, all the better to help you get completely over it. Regret is wasted emotion IMO, what's done is done, all a learning experience. But love and emotion make people blind to each other's faults. His lack of tact in this matter is either his way of testing the limits of whatever power he thinks he might still have (or hopes he has), which speaks to his level of consideration. No doubt he cares about you but maybe he really just doesn't know how to handle that sort of emotion anyway, which almost makes it moot. You pushed yoru boundaires and comfort zone to try to be with someone, and he's obviously incapable of doing the same. Maybe he never will be. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.... Personally I think it's almost impossible to be friends with someone, on any level, when you've had such an emotional involvment. Being business aquaintances is a stretch, even, and he isn't respecting a friendship in either respect by asking you for information that he should be smart enough to assume should make you uncomfortable. Baby steps, but I think this is a serious breakthrough for you in terms of the healing process. Seems so to me, anyway. Hugs*
Author jj33 Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Thanks I hope you are able to see the light with your MM soon as well
Ronni_W Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Hugs, JJ. Sorry this is happening. Maybe there is some (very small?) comfort in the timing? Wishing you better and brighter days ahead.
NoIDidn't Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Hugs, JJ. Sorry this is happening. Maybe there is some (very small?) comfort in the timing? Wishing you better and brighter days ahead. I was going to say the same thing. But going to ask if the comfort was on jj's part. JJ you know I love you. He must be contacting you more than usual since you are seeming to really be affected by it. I think he's just phishing and thinks you are game. Your agreement to the A has tarnished his thinking of you IMO so he's very comfortable asking of you things he would never think to ask of others. I find it offensive if this is what he is doing. Sorry he's muddying the waters for you so much.
Author jj33 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Posted February 15, 2009 Thanks guys. Its been 18 months since the A ended. Youd think hed know better. Yes he is in hot pursuit again but luckily when he has called my house I havent been around and he hasnt left messages so I have ignored it. He knows I am not game. Or he should I kicked his ass into next week last time he suggested I was game. That was almost 6 months ago so... ?? If I have to kick his ass again I will but hopefully it wont come to that. Its like he thinks he bought a lifetime subscription to me or something and he can come or go as he pleases. Maybe hes going senile. LOL I think there is a certain kind of man who takes anything as encouragement. You say hello he thinks she wants me. You say how are you? He says yes she definitely wants me...
Mr. Lucky Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 He was just thinking of what is in his best interests and didnt think further. But isn't this the mind set that allows a MM or MW to start an A anyway? Someone that cheats on their marriage isn't thinking about what's best for everyone, their focus is on what's best for them. Glad you're now in a position to see through it... Mr. Lucky
joybean72 Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 At least you see him now for what he really is jj33 & didn't get sucked in to being wife # whatever! (As was my case...and probably this OW!) Yes, feel sorry for him because he is a pathetic schmuck that only cares for himself. You move on and be happy! Try not to let him get to ya.
Author jj33 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Posted February 15, 2009 Thanks again for all your replies jj
Author jj33 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 You are right NID. He wonders if I am game but I think its pretty clear I am not. I basically told him to jump into a lake which was perhaps unfair to him. Im not handling it all as well as I might. But maybe he needs to be told to jump in a lake. Needs to be reminded that things have changed. I dont know. Only problem is any reaction is a reaction. And he is still getting a reaction from me. It annoys me that after all this time I still get so angry with him. Im not the most calm and collected person, but I never thought of myself as being this volatile. Someone suggested that they would fix me up with someone single in the industry but after this episode I said no. If it didnt work out then I might have a second person who i wasnt on great terms with. I dont want people to think I use my industry as huband huntin' grounds. one is a blip - and besides almost no one knew. Two or three is a pattern and would lead to me not being taken seriously. I keep telling other people to face their feelings. I got out PDQ (less than a year of PA) and cant imagine how so many posters put themselves through it for years. The whole thing infuriates me. Now that I have faced mine fully, the whole thing infuriates me but at the same time it makes me a little bit nostalgic. How did we get from being so happy together to a place where every little misstep he makes drives me over the edge... I think its because when he makes a misstep I flash back to his other misdeeds. He accused me of being neurotic (not in those words but same idea) and I flew into a rage, feeling i had been gaslighted. He was the one who crossed the line. Someone who is supposed to be my ally shouldnt do that. He should have my interests in mind where my business is concerned and should not be opportunistic. (lots of shoulds.. I hate shoulds because if someone has to say should it means reality does not match the way it "should" be) But really he is right insofar as its been so long. I shouldnt be so reactive where he is concerned. I would like to be well past that. Resentment isnt pretty. And really I have noone to blame but myself. Theres no reason to resent him. Noone forced me to get involved with him. I did that all by myself. He used to think I was amazing. And now I have ruined his view of me. Its all a mess. I wish I could go back in time and change the course of events so taht it had never happened. Wed still be best of friends. I wouldnt be tarnished by the A. I wouldnt have lost so much time and energy to the whole thing. Im beginning to wonder if there isnt something really wrong with me. Its not like me to get so stuck on something like this. Its not normal to still be emotionally scarred by it so long after the fact.
Author jj33 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 In my better moments, I try to be charitable. The poor guy assumed I was sophisticated enough to understand how an affair works. But instead he got holy hell if he didnt behave like the "perfect boyfriend" subject to the constraints of his marriage. So it was not what he expected and not what he intended and ultimately not something that fit into his life (given the fact that he was committed to staying married). So I suppose he is trying his best to deal with the aftermath as am I. Him being him, he does it far more gracefully than I do, except when he phishes and pulls stunts from time to time per the above. For the most part we have done well. Its just sometimes the whole thing really aggravates me. I had no business whatsoever getting involved in something that was never going to work for me. I may not be "sophisticated" enough to have an affair, but I know myself well enough to have known that was never ever going to be a good situation for me. It was all borne of hopelessness, no faith in my future as a single woman. I think many of the posters on here are in a similar position with respect to why they stay in the As. Noone stays in something that is hurting them if they have hope that their future offers something better.
woe_is_me Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 i am so hearing you JJ .. im right where you're at .. as are the x mms who do they think they are? This is just a bulls..t seesaw of emotions that i can really live without i seriously think he's getting worse with age .. he will never have clarity .. hell im not even sure im the only one he's trying to do this with!! lol @ myself for thinking i was special i don't even know if he questions his motives .. i wish i'd never met him
KismetGirl Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Noone stays in something that is hurting them if they have hope that their future offers something better. The only thing that keeps me going is thinking that my future may hold something better than this. I still hurt right now, though. Don't think it's that simple....if we rationally thought about every single thing we ever did in life, no one would ever be heart-broken, really. Relationships aren't usually very logical. I guess technically I'm still in the A, even though I'e ignored him the last week and a half. If anything, it's a learning experience. Saying that YOU shoudl have anticipated HIS needs and "rules" of an affair though....bollocks. If you are an idiot for not being "sophisticated" enough to know what an affair shoudl entail, then he's an idiot for thinking that a woman would be happy enough being his emotional and physical booty call without wanting the "boyfriend" actions that should go with it. So it goes both ways, whether they like it or not.
NoIDidn't Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Oh jj, I'm so sorry. I hope I didn't imply that I think he's right to think less of you. I was commenting more on what I thought he may be thinking with his inappropriateness. I wish he would stop calling you and expressing such a lack of propriety. Unfortunately, any thing you say is likely to be met with amusement on his part. If you call him on his calling you, he'll probably feel that he still has his hooks in you. He might be right, but that doesn't mean he has a chance anymore. Don't be hard on yourself. We all have a few of these kind of men in our closet. I know I do. But I think of it this way: they may have a tarnished image of me, but they weren't exactly in the most stellar of positions either. Its pot meet kettle. The argument I've had with my exes goes like this after a break up and they keep calling: guy with gf: you would've hooked up with me before, why not now? me: because you have a girlfriend guy: didn't bother you before me: it does now so its over guy: I would've never messed with you if you were going to act like this me: yeah, I should've never messed with you anyway guy: why did you, blah blah blah me: look, whatever I did, whenever I did it, it won't be happening again. Its just so circular. These guys are frequently of the mind that we women aren't that bright and that we are there for their pleasure. I hate that you are going through this. Probably not more than you, though. Hugs, jj.
Author jj33 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 Thanks NID. This is a different song. He pushes on something unrelated to the A. I push back to set boundaries. he denies crossing any lines. Then I get angry (more at me than him) then he says my reactions are in excess of the situation and we end up fighting and then apologizing and there is peace again. But since we no longer see each other in person and the A is long gone there is no make up sex LOL. I can see now how it is phising to see if he can still get a reaction. I wish I had seen that before. I think its due to the fact that he has been trying to get closer to me and I have ignored him. So when he couldnt accomplish that on a personal level, he wanted to check and make sure that even if I ignore his invitations for dinner or drinks, I still have feelings for him. Its so pointless. Hes married. No good can come of it at this point. Maybe down the line we can have be friends who spend time together but not at this point. Any thought of being together if he left is a thing of the past. If he cant come out and say what is on his mind, then either he is hopelessly retarded emotoinally or he simply doesnt have strong enough feelings for me anymore. Its all too bad. We had a really strong friendship before and I dont know that we will ever get that back. Too much anger and resentment on my part. Just seeing him annoys me. I can handle it when I must but dont like to put myself in that position if I dont have to. But all in all its better than having stayed in it. This is a minor annoyance as compared to the pain of being in the A and wanting more. Its nice for a change to want less of him!
jasminetea Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 First off, your finishing with the A is wonderful and says many good things about you. Secondly, do you think he is crossing the line with you in order to provoke a reaction and in so doing, proving to himself(?)/you(?) that you still have feelings for him? Sort of like a child may do to get attention, any attention being better than none.
Author jj33 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 Thats it exactly Jasmine. I hadnt seen it and instead attributed much worse motives (I thought he was turning on me) which set off a whole chain of ugly events... Youd think that more than a year and a half after the A ended, he wouldnt continue to feel the need to do this. Or if he did, he could come out and say what was on his mind... But there you go. Everyone copes differently.
jasminetea Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Oh christ, sorry, I missed your last post to NID. Do you think you will be able not give him any reaction? Or at least one that makes his attempts worthless?
Author jj33 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 Jasmine I assume you were talking to NID - that isnt any conversation I ever had or ever would have with xMM. Since my last post, he has proven to be less emotionally retarded than I thought. So difficult for him to come out and say whats on his mind, but when he does it is appreciated. These As they are like the gift that keeps on giving. I hope when I meet someone new all this evaporates.
Author jj33 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 Oh sorry Jasmine misread you were responding to me. My final response to him shut it down, put him back in his box on no uncertain terms and got a proper apology etc. So that is progress. All i want at this point is peace so I can sit in my rocking chair and grow old quietly without being bothered by the likes of him. Getting an apology out of him for playing his games usually takes awhile and comes when least expected. Getting a proper apology "in real time" is much better as we do have to b in contact to a certain extent and it clears the air. I forgive as best I can, but I dont forget as easily...
whichwayisup Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Or if he did, he could come out and say what was on his mind... Because he doesn't care to..It's about him and what he feels/needs/thinks/wants. Ego related, selfish, whatever you want to call it..
Author jj33 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 he is the center of the universe. part of his charm but also part of what makes him so aggravating when the charm wears thin.... now that the A fog has lifted I find it far more aggravating than charming. He likes to suggest that if he werent married everything would be different... sure... and if pigs could fly..... (not to mention the fact that he IS married so ???? Im not falling for that old chestnut) I used to think you cant help how you feel etc etc its better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all, love is a gift etc etc... Now I think that was just a way of making excuses for him. Yes love is a gift and all that blah blah blah but not when the gift is married to someone else. At least not if you want more from the relationship.
Author jj33 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 In a way each of these little missteps are good. He may think he is getting attention but in fact, he is reinforcing the fact that I could never go back to the A again. Not that there was any doubt but it lessens the remote possibility that I might have weakened at some point with the passage of time. This treat em mean keep em keen doesnt work very well with me. It just pushes me further and further away.
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