Want to understand men

[countingufosagain]

It's takes The Secret a bit further though it was written prior to the The Secret. I've just started reading it and he is an author I enjoy. More about increasing your awareness to a more positive and plentiful life.

[countingufosagain]

Also, I didn't mean to infer that you weren't over him but how it would come across to me.

 

Reading your reply, I don't think that he hates you in the slightest. I think he hates himself for his actions and his inability to handle the relationship maturely. I say that from experience.

[SYL]

Thanks! I have done a fair amount of reading on self awareness and well-being. I don't believe everything that I read but rather take parts of different theories and apply those that suit me according to me.

 

I have learned a lot from M. S. Symonds:

Zen Shredding

Soulananda; The Essentials of a Good Life…

 

Oh, by the way, whatever anyone interprets from my process is their own. If he or anyone else believes that I am 'hanging onto something' that's their right to draw that conclusion. As for me, I know why for myself and I am happy about that. I have an EQ of 150 and rely on it... What I understood when I read his last few notes to me is that he still feels rather angry and unsettled towards me -- therefore I take a step back appropriately. We were deeply connected in friendship once, so I know him well... If and when he comes around, I will not be rude because I am honestly not in that place any longer. Five months ago, I would've said something completely different -- he abandoned my needs, he hurt me then. I have made my journey and I am confident in sharing it today.

 

I have the same attitude towards my ex husband who was abusive in my marriage for ten years... Rather, by leaving, I hurt him. I will be receptive to a cordial relationship with him once all of his abusive emotions are diluted, managed, or non-existent -- that is, whenever the proper opportunity presents itself. It's his journey to make.

 

Anyway, I don't expect either man to make great strides any time soon but I do hope for them that each of them will, despite the very different circumstances they face in relation to me.

[SYL]

Also, I didn't mean to infer that you weren't over him but how it would come across to me.

 

Reading your reply, I don't think that he hates you in the slightest. I think he hates himself for his actions and his inability to handle the relationship maturely. I say that from experience.

 

I didn't see this...

 

I know he doesn't really hate me, but rather is convincing himself that he does out of his own guilt and anger for himself -- he's projecting it onto me because he is incapable otherwise to come to terms with our significant matter. He has not reached inner resolve and therefore cannot fathom the idea of allowing the children to pursue their separate friendships if it involves me in the most minute form. His actions appear hateful, but I know that they are derivative of how he feels about himself. So I take a step back.

 

It's a real shame. Our friendship previous to the pregnancy was solid and rare, for both of us. He wrote about it to me once, "True trust and friendship are a valuable and rare commodity. Cherish both in you. I have only respect for you and your commitments. I was prepared to go on sleeping as well..."

 

We will never get back to that, I know and accept fully. I wish for better things for him -- that's just my nature.

[SYL]

Find out your EQ for free. It's in depth so allow yourself at least 30mins to respond to 106 questions. From there, you will have a greater understanding of the steps you can take to improve your sense of self and others.

[SYL]

Well... I have made it a strong point throughout this that my daughters have been feeling a void... While I was on the phone this evening, they jointly decided to call him from my older daughter's cel (the number had been listed for emergency purposes long ago that he had agreed to). I was still on the phone when they came running to me, holding the cel, telling me that 'he' wanted to talk to me. I finished my phone call and took up the cel phone... Yikes!

 

He was not happy.

 

Actually, he was angry and, to be honest, I wasn't surprised. Even after all this time, our email exchange last week was a good indicator and I had decided to take a step back... I had no idea that my girls would make such a bold move (and yes, I felt bad at the timing, as well as SHOCK for what they had done)!! He didn't believe me. He demanded that it was never to happen again. Oh my, of course! I apologized.

 

While I had him on the phone, I asked him about the children's friendships as they have been trying to connect and likely the reason that they called him. It was last left with his daughter asking her 'dad' for permission. He said he decided it was not a good idea. I asked if he was making decisions for our daughters -- I didn't feel it was anybody's business but theirs. Was he indeed intercepting? He answered that he will not go out of his way to facilitate their friendship but that they have each others' numbers to make any arrangements that they want. To me, that cancels out. I remarked that it wasn't fair to make such decisions for others when they had nothing to do with the 'real' reason. He said he owes me nothing, no explanation -- his reasons were dealt with and closed. I gently challenged that they were never open... He said that he did not want to be their 'father'. I thought it was an odd thing to say and reminded him that my daughters already have a father. He was quiet for a moment and then denied that he had ever bonded with the kids, that he had always kept a distance. I pointed out that he used to call and sing to my youngest over the phone any time she wanted... that there was a bond, that he took the time to play with them, and talk to them, invite them for sleepovers and movies, go to dinner and the movies, hug them, etc... The void they feel is quite real and that they do not understand the rigid line he has drawn without explanation. He said he doesn't need to explain. I didn't say so, but MAN that was cold! He thought that it would not be a good idea to 'reintroduce' the children if I was going to move (I just sold my house, he must have found out). I said that there could be quite a possibility that I would not move far, remain in the neighbourhood. He said he didn't care where I moved but if the kids were to resume and 'he' would decide to intercept, it wouldn't be good for their well-being. At this point I am shaking my head thinking why would he even think of doing that...

 

He said bottom line, he didn't think it was a good idea. I agreed, it wasn't a good idea for 'him'. As for me, I would be able to set it aside and behave like another parent in the neighbourhood FOR the children. He said I was giving my daughters false hope. I reminded him that when my older daughter called over Christmas (for his daughter's number) that he had promised her that they would get together real soon. He ignored that... He said that if his kids were to ask him, he would tell them that we had a falling out and that we decided not to be friends anymore. I said that 'he' decided to eliminate every relationship for reasons beknownst only to him. I am not prepared to lie to my children because I don't know the justification for why the friendship was axed -- he never provided anything to me. My older daughter would definitely demand why 'our' decision to not be friends would have anything to do with her -- she would be right. She's a gifted child. And I didn't force the end of the friendship so I am not taking the heat for it when I had done all that I could to keep the root issue separate. He said he didn't care.

 

Anyway, he said he was busy, that his son is now in hockey as I know. Ummm, I didn't. And his daughter as I know has a full social schedule with sleepovers and parties. I didn't know... And during the week there's homework and he has to hire a babysitter to get things done as I know. I didn't... How could I POSSIBLY know?? He was not going to give up any more of 'his' time with his kids for playdates with 'mine' -- not on his watch!! I was disgusted, he made me sick.

 

There were far too many excuses and he couldn't respond when I countered him with the truth. It is clear to me that the man and friend I once knew is gone...

 

He brought up a few things but then did not want to discuss. Okay (shrug). He cut me off and barely let me speak throughout. Okay... I did manage to inquire about all my files, the work that I had been contracted to do. He said he knew nothing about that. I said I had sent him a note, professionally, asking for copies of my work. He said he didn't read my notes. I asked how he would know about some specifics we discussed about the children that were email-driven and yet not about the work files. He said he didn't care. Okay... I said this would be an opportunity for him to fulfill his contract for my services and that this would drop -- I have intellectual rights to my work. He asked for a list of what I needed, and he would send whatever to me. I asked how I would be able to get him this list if he was choosing which emails to read. He said he would read the email and when he got around to it he would. His computer, as I know (), is in intensive back-up right now and that he has to settle it before he can dig into the archives. Okay. Then that's settled.

 

I discussed with the kids that sometimes people make decisions for their own reasons. Whatever the reason, it's theirs. Sometimes the other person doesn't like it. I removed his number from my daughter's cel. They went to bed crying.

[SYL]

What bothers me is that we were best friends and always vowed that if the intimate relationship would ever influence the friendship, our intimacy would be immediately terminated... Our friendship was to be the core root driving everything, and far too rare and valuable to be jeopardized. I was completely loyal to this arrangement and I kept myself in check.

 

After the miscarriage, I said to him that we were not responsible enough intimately. I initiated shelving that relationship. He agreed it was dead. I had no issue, still believing that our loyalty to the friendship remained. Then he admitted that the driving force behind all relationships for him was our intimate relationship... I was stunned, reminding him that it was always to be the friendship, and it was that way for me. I asked, without physical intimacy does the friendship not matter? No response. I guess without sex, there was little desire for anything else.

 

In the end, his complete cease of all relationships with all parties keep surfacing my sense that he 'broke up' with me. Best friends do not turn their back. For me it's the loss of the friendship that stung the most. While I do not miss 'him' per se, I do miss sharing that level of depth with someone.

[SYL]

Update (names were edited out):

 

"I apologize over what transpired with the girls last night. I was on the phone when they made the decision to call you from their cel. I walked by my office at one point and saw little one talking -- I thought she was speaking to her dad so I walked away (still on the phone), not wanting to interfere as I would never. I was still on the phone when they came running downstairs to me to say that you wanted to talk to me. I was taken aback and ended my call to take yours... Of course you would not be happy -- our email exchange last week was a significant indicator for me.

 

I know in my mind -- and in my heart for my girls -- that my intent to advocate for their friendships was genuine. They have been persistent since before the holidays about your absence. From their perspective, you are still 'family' and continued to feel connected that way. As you well know, without family in town for me and an unwillingness for my ex to make friends throughout the marriage, this relationship and bond with your family was particularly important to the girls -- and you were 'mommy's best friend'. That's simply the psychology of it and, at the time, you engaged without a hint of apprehension or concern from my view. Although my oldest's main interest was to spend time with your daughter, little one was drawn to you through musical language. I allowed for the friendships to flourish naturally. I had not a doubt as our families were then seemingly involved through our best friendship.

 

I have not initiated a mention of you or your family after all this time and only responded to the girls' questions of you as your having been busy -- people keep busy schedules... I have diluted their increasing insistence and shrugged off their skepticism and upset over 'why' when they had been accustomed to a more immediate presence from you. I have not given them false hope... I am a better parent than that, finally gently voicing in recent weeks, "We are not going to talk about visiting his house again today, okay?" I had anticipated over time that your family would just fade from their memories, not become intensified and unbearable to the point of my reestablishing contact with you on their behalf (unbeknownst to them).

 

I took your number off of their cel (which was entered as an emergency number long ago, if you recall). You should not expect another call from her but she has made the decision to keep in touch with your daughter.

 

I did not tell them that we had a falling out and that we had decided not to be friends, as you optioned. That's simply a lie. On top of that, my oldest would raise more questions about the circumstance surrounding that decision which would require further lying on my part. I will not fabricate tales to my children as I have always communicated with them in truth and in a way that is age appropriate. What I did tell them is that people sometimes change their minds about others -- it's their choice and they don't have to explain, even though it would be more compassionate and respectful if they could. Sometimes the other person doesn't like it but it's out of their control.

 

'He has made a decision against being a part of our family for his own reasons. It's his choice and we are not welcome to change it.'

 

I will not make you privy of their reaction."

 

Back to NC...

[SYL]

Here's an update...

 

Well, I had to go and meet a contract client which required a very long bus ride the other morning. Unfortunately, the route to the bus stop is right by 'his' house. I was unsure if I could do it considering how I was feeling last week BUT I decided that I had every right to walk down that street with dignity -- even right by his house...

 

I stayed across the street as there was no need for me to be on the other side (his side) for where I was going and coming from.

 

Anyway, it was during school morning hours -- parents were out walking their kids to the local school. He came out (with his kids) and saw me... his whole body jerked back as he stared at me. I looked straight ahead and kept walking.

 

By his reaction to seeing me, I know he's guilty of everything. I personally felt nothing -- no upturned stomach, no shaking, no upset, no thrill either. It was another positive sign for me that I don't carry his hurt any longer. I guess what I actually felt was pity -- for him. I'm personally all good after this long and devastating ordeal. I am happy about that! :-)

[SYL]

Update...

 

His daughter and mine continue to make plans to no avail. I have stayed out of it and only console my daughter when she becomes upset. She has shown me the correspondence and frequently talks about it -- I never ask as I feel it's not my place to 'check in'. Both girls are good kids, I fully trust that their friendship at this age will not bring me any parental concerns.

 

Ten days ago, I broke NC. My daughter was upset when his daughter did not show up (again). I fully believe he intercepted our daughters' plans. I sent him a message, "Guess girls are not getting together this weekend... They both had hoped to. Again, it was last left with asking 'you' permission for it. Sad, really, for them."

 

His response:

"Knew nothing of it! Save your self righteous bullsh*t for someone else!"

 

I responded:

"Please... how stupid do you think I am...? You are the only one standing in the way of their friendship, admittedly so yourself. I do happen to recall our last conversation where you stated clearly that you would not go out of your way to ensure they could spend time together -- yet they seemingly want to. Again, let your apparent (and undeserved) 'disdain for me' go and grow up! I don't care how you feel about me but you, and you alone, are hurting them both."

 

His response:

"I think you are the one who needs to grow up! I am not playing your games!"

 

I responded:

"This is not a game. I am certainly NOT orchestrating something that would hurt children, any of them! On the contrary. I have never been selfish.

 

I am fed up with the disappointment, promises that come from your end that do not amount to anything. I can only go by what you have recently disclosed -- this part is particularly sad. My handling of 'you' and your ways is far more patient and mature than you seem to realize.

 

Bottom line, the girls have been trying to make plans for MONTHS now. Let 'our history' go and become another parent in the neighbourhood whose children want to connect with mine for a few hours once in a while. I have already said, and will reiterate once more, I do not carry any issues with that."

 

His response:

"Have you ever considered that maybe my daughter just does NOT want to get together with yours???

 

Grow up and frankly f*ck off!! I will not be responding to any more of your emails and your bullsh*t! Seriously!!!! You will be filtered out by end of today."

 

I responded:

"Again, there is no bull. I have seen and heard of the correspondence between the girls. It is a mutual 'want' to see each other.

 

Your language and attitude reaffirms in my mind what you are incapable of. Frankly, take some time to reflect because I have never been a bad person -- and never towards you or your family. I have been able to set everything aside, as everyone awaits for you to do same. I know it and you know it. Why will you not?

 

You still owe me some files, professionally."

 

His response:

"Your attitude and accusitory bullsh*t proves exactly who you are. I have been patient and listened to your crap and verbal diarrhea for some time and I have reached an end. Your words n tone, accusations, threats and bullsh*t is pathetic!

 

I told you to send me a list. Mail it to my house when you get your sh*t together! I will post the files for you! So take your insecurities and f*ck youself! I am home now and setting filters so I am considering this final communication with you.

 

I refuse to force any kind of friendship on my daughter. She is old enough and grown up enough to decide with whom she will associate!! My thoughts are she is being polite and does not know how to tell your daughter that she does not have the same interest in a friendship."

 

I responded:

"Ummm, I do not read my child's correspondence but rather I am shown... Phrases like 'I miss you too' and 'I will ask my dad about this weekend' do not sound like a girl who is not interested in a friendship in return. Nor do I 'force' any friendship on my child...!! It's her business and never mine. If anything, I wish it would just simply fade away... but it is not the case for either of them. Good kids don't work the way you describe -- they are honest, not deceitful, and it is alarming that you would portray your daughter in such a light.

 

Verbal diarrhea is, if you can reread your own correspondence, what I have actually had to endure by you -- not the other way around. I have never chosen to curse towards you or accused you of anything without facts being substantiated... facts entirely provided by yourself. I have been pleasant while trying to reach out to you for the children's benefit -- for both yours and mine because it is clear that is what THEY want. I honestly don't factor into that 'want'. Only you continue to point your finger at me for it... for everything. Did you notice that you have had three fingers pointing back at yourself all along?

 

One day, you might just grow up. I continue on with hope for a better 'you' one day in the future.

 

I really do wish you all the best."

 

I delivered a list of files that I require to his house (he has ignored all previous extremely unemotional and professional requests). He shut the door in my face and refused to sign a paper of its receipt. I felt nothing. After all this time, I will afford him another few weeks to finalize our working contract -- he has uploaded some of my work online, shown as his. I have contacted a lawyer in this regard as these files impede my ability to show the work I have done most recently.

 

Since that day, our daughters have made new plans to spend some time together. We shall see...

 

Note to all. Do not, NOT, ever get involved with someone on differing levels. It's never worth it. Ensuing emotions (like his clearly are) are impossible to maneuver through.

[twicebitten]

I recently miscarried twins & HE was NOT there for me, but NOW wants to be (or thinks he does)!!

 

I don't know ... don't have any wods of wisdom, yet just wanted to tell you I do EMPATHIZE & am sending you HUGS!!!

 

XO - Twicebitten -