SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Part I I was in an 'unacknowledged' relationship for about a year and a half. Other than both him and I enduring separate many-years-long and difficult divorces, things between us were really good! He compared me to his beloved grandmother and always exclaimed how comfortable he was around me -- it was mutual. We were magnets to each other -- we often commented how much energy we felt between us... He sent me songs. The lyrics in 'Nicest Thing' by Kate Nash "...I wish that you knew when I said two sugars, actually I meant three..." -- he always made it a point that he knew how I liked my coffee in the morning, with a smile on his face, knowing that I would understand he was referencing the song. There was another song he particularly identified me with, 'You Give Me Something' by James Morrison, "...Please give me something because someday I might call you from my heart..." Sex was amazing! Kissing was to die for!! The bond and attraction was huge! Neither one of us at 42yrs and 35yrs were looking for a serious commitment to each other. I had no worries and things were comfortable the way they were. One night we had too much to drink, did not use protection, and, yes, we got pregnant. I sensed something was wrong but wasn't sure and called him to let him know that I wasn't feeling quite right. This was around two weeks after conception. At 4wks, and no period on my 28-day cycle, I looked into reading up on early pregnancy signs. I have two children, each of their pregnancy tests came out negative until I was 6wks so, even if I was pregnant, at 4wks the test would've been negative. At 4.5wks, I started nausea that increased to vomiting. Without a positive test, I couldn't tell him until I was sure. However, I kept telling him I was not feeling like myself, that I was unwell. At 6wks, planning to watch him perform later that evening, I had a positive reading -- I cried all day. I waited until after his performance to tell him (he called me when he got home) and only after I heard how good he felt over his big night. I told him I was so proud of him and he told me that he felt so much support and encouragement just by my presence. He wore the same sweater I had commented on as my favourite on him just days prior. He sat beside me each break he had between sets -- friends sitting across the table from us felt our energy and grew suspicious that things were deeper between us than we were letting on. He practiced playing 'Wonderwall' one of my favourite Oasis songs for his performance that he would also sing to my youngest daughter over the phone any time she wanted to hear it. Things really were good between us, the kids were close too (we each have two kids). Him and I were each others' best friend. We could talk about anything. I allowed him to bask in his deserved glory for quite a while but then, as that conversation was drawing to a close and after some more small talk, I took the opportunity to be honest and let him know that we needed to talk because 'I was late'. He went silent. I asked if he was okay. He said that it wasn't good and that he would call me in the morning to discuss. I said I wanted to do it face-to-face for something so important. We scheduled to meet up at his place the following morning. When I arrived at his house, he said he hadn't slept all night. I had (hormones) but not well. He was kind and gentle at first and explained that it was the wrong time to have a baby but maybe sometime in the future there was a possibility. I told him that I knew and understood that this was bad timing for both of us -- I cried at the positive reading -- but aborting due to an 'oooops!' was also against my moral values... and my maternal instincts already had me feeling connected to the child growing inside. I was torn. It was an intense dilemma for me. He became borderline angry. He said that if I terminated, things would go back to the way they were. If I carried full term, he would not support me or the child emotionally, physically, or financially -- he would make it so that he never even knew me. He said the quality of life for so many people would deteriorate and that alone was not worth doing. Although I understood that about the quality of life for his family and mine, I was really hurt by what I consider his 'ultimatum'. It was the first time he had implied that I could be discarded so easily if I did not agree with him. He said the final decision was mine, of course... I responded that his involvement in the decision was very important to me. I knew he was scared. I was too. For the entire remaining week, there was a lot of tension between us... I finally agreed to terminate and made an appointment that fit into both of our schedules (he was going out of town on business) -- he was going to be present and stay by me throughout. Just a few days later I felt sharp pains in my abdomen. I sent him a text message to see what he was doing. He said he was watching a movie with the kids. I left it at that and, not wanting to panic him, I went online to see if the pains were the beginning signs of a miscarriage. All indicators pointed towards the inevitable. The next morning, I clotted and bled. I miscarried. I was devastated. He called me to see how I was doing like he did almost every day. I could not pick up the phone. He left voice messages and text messages, and he sent emails wondering if his time with the kids the night prior was an issue for me (it never was as I always respected and never wanted to interfere with his time with his children). It was unusual that I wouldn't pick up or respond to his calling but I was in shock and in turmoil that I just couldn't talk to anybody. I even made arrangements for my daughters with friends under the guise that I was 'unwell'. I needed to stabilize myself, to come to terms with this new surge of emotions. I was trying to make sense of it all, the mixed feelings I had over the pregnancy, the planned abortion, and then the miscarriage. If this was a blessing in disguise, why did I feel such a deep anguish? I cried hard, really hard. A few hours later, I sent him a text message back to see if his contacting me was work related (he subcontracted to me as well) and he said no. He was touching base like usual. I told him by text that I was 'bleeding' and that all I could do was leave myself open for work purposes as he was going away the following week. I was not able to open myself up on a personal level because I was in shock, upset, and could barely speak. We texted back and forth for a bit and finally I was able to call him to discuss it in voice... barely. He assured me that his phone was always on, to call him any time of day. He was going out with friends that evening, had made plans with other friends the following day, he would be packing for his business trip that night upon his return, and he would be leaving at 4am the next morning. He knew that I never interfered with his time with family and other friends -- and that I would not call him knowing he was out. I honestly felt he should have cancelled his plans with his friends at the very least... but didn't say so. I asked him to come over for a bit after he finished packing and to bring some beer instead. I needed the time in between to come to terms with the unexpected loss anyway. He offered me one hour of his time only -- maybe... if he could... no guarantees... He did come by for an hour. I was silent for the most part, still in shock and carrying a mixture of emotions. He did most of the talking and asked why I was not communicating -- he felt it wasn't fair to him. I did share honestly that I was afraid that this would change things between him and I. He responded to say that nothing had changed for him and that he felt we could continue on as before. I said that I needed his support, that this was devastating for me, that it would be difficult. He said he had experienced a similar situation with his ex wife only they never talked about it. He felt he needed to talk about this, and make up for the guilt and silence between him and his ex wife, and that he would be there to ensure my health physically, emotionally, and mentally. He asked me not to turn to anybody else because he would be there for me, any time of day I needed and as much as he possibly could -- nobody else was needed. He wanted to be kept up to date on my recovery by email while he was away and he made me promise not to 'bolt'. I was skeptical but relented, too upset and weak to argue. I admitted that I was glad he was going away as it would give me time to figure things out. Everything was too intense, too fresh, and too uncertain. He appeared understanding and sweet but I noticed that his body language was completely faced away from me the entire time. It didn't help with my insecurities but I didn't mention it. He kissed me deeply and hugged me tightly before he left -- his one hour was up. I was shaking. I could not stop crying. I wanted him there but I also did not want him there. I was so confused.
Author SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Part II That week he was away, I wrote him short notes about how I was doing through the miscarriage and physical recovery, how I felt, what was going through my mind. I was honest. I was in turmoil. I was guilty. I was angry. I blamed myself above all. He responded back when he could -- twice, two short one-line notes thanking me for doing what he asked, for finally being able to open communication channels over the miscarriage. When he was due back in town, he called me to say his flight was delayed and he missed his connection. We kept in touch by text after that. He was finally able to get a flight and got back into town at three in the morning. I made him promise me to call when he landed and then again when he got home (after his brutal week at the show, I was not comfortable with him driving the long distance from the airport alone in his extreme fatigue). He did. When he got home he called and told me about his week, working 20hrs / day, and how grueling it was. After 45mins, I asked if he was going to ask me how I was doing considering the week I had just endured myself. He was immediately agitated. He finally forcefully asked how I was doing in a raised voice, clearly not happy to do so. I told him to get some rest instead and that I would await his call later that day. He made no promises that he would call. I understood, after his long traveling ordeal, but when I got off the phone, I cried -- something was not right in his tone of voice. The next day, he sent a text message about work. Then an email about... work. I followed up with him about work. A couple of days later I called him and wanted to know when we could get together to discuss the miscarriage -- I needed his support and that I really was not feeling like myself. He said after a week of being away, he had a lot of catching up to do and could not feel emotional, but perhaps by the end of the week... I sent him this note: "I may have leftover hormones but it's still very real. Sorry you can't be emotional -- I am. Time will tell as I will do my best to be patient through your present state of exhaustion. I have never asked to be first, I don't want to be last." His response: "Once I have time to catch my breath I will look over and read your emails and give you a response. You would, I assume, prefer me not to skim and actually read correct? I still need sleep, am exhausted and will probably not recover for a week or so but I will read your emails in the next day or so. And respond. Not putting you first OR last. Just dealing like you. Understand you are trying to cope. I cannot ask you to understand what the past week was like for me. All I can do is ask that you allow me to get back to my physical and mental state that is me." I waited patiently for 'his' recovery. There was never a response to the 'recovery updates' I had sent while he was away. The following week, we still hadn't gotten together and our communication was reduced to only email -- and he was disengaging from what he called 'circles' that he felt was wasting 'his' time. I wanted to talk to someone desperately, I felt so alone, but kept my promise not to confide in anyone outside of him. I was really beginning to feel abandoned. Since he wasn't taking my calls as often, I texted him when he was out to dinner to let him know that I needed support and if he wasn't able to provide me with it, I was forced to turn to someone else. He texted back asking me not to threaten him. I was shocked! I wasn't threatening him at all -- I truly needed support... I wanted him to fill that role but I felt like I was waiting and waiting and waiting just for a mere conversation while he had the time to go out and be social! He instead arranged with me to pick up his drive containing work files from my place. I hadn't received any work from him since his return... I asked, should I be concerned? He said no, that he would return it in a couple of days. He cancelled a movie we had scheduled to go and see as well because 'a friend' was flying in from New York to celebrate 'a' birthday for a day and was staying overnight -- he also needed time to clean the house for his guest. His vague and careful choice of words were understood by me that he was expecting a female guest. He picked up the drive a couple of days later and then proceeded to call me a 'coward' before he left -- for looking as bad as I did and for not moving on. I thought, after only two weeks!? The miscarriage ordeal was not ever mentioned and he didn't stay for more than the moment it took to retrieve the drive. I offered coffee or a beer to chat for a few minutes. He was 'too busy' -- he was going to the gym and then out for a bite to eat. It didn't appear like he was wanting to make any time for me. I was hurt. No, I never got the drive back containing all the work I had done for him. I emailed a couple of days later. He emailed back asking for space. I was emotional but I agreed to give him some space and asked if it was all right with him that I check in on him every two weeks. He said yes. After two weeks, I checked in. He said he hadn't thought about anything but that the relationship we shared was the same -- he just needed time to deal with it his way. I was upset, still needing to talk about the miscarriage and tried to understand. Another two weeks rolled by and I checked in again. He said that he hadn't thought about me at all, that he would probably never talk about the miscarriage with me. He raised his voice, agitated, and said he was HAPPY that I miscarried, yes! And that it was his issue to carry the guilt if any for the rest of his life!! He said nothing would ever be the same between us. Again, I told him that I had to talk to someone about how I was feeling... if he didn't want to do it, it was in my best interest to seek what I needed for myself, for my well-being elsewhere... He felt threatened and asked when I spoke to whomever, would I have to reveal that 'he' was the father? He said that if anything got around about us in the neighbourhood, it would fall back on me. That hurt too, so much! I cried for a week. I felt so alone. Scared. A new level of devastation ensued for me. What had I waited all this time for? for THAT? I felt I was robbed of the opportunity to take care of myself, believing in and waiting for his promise of support, and this wasn't the caring environment I needed.
Author SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Part III After a total of ten weeks, he suspended our relationship completely. He deleted everything on his Facebook account that was related to me -- the applications we shared, wall posts, photos I had taken of him -- everything! He deleted our Facebook friendship and told me it was nothing personal... It was totally personal! Questions began to surface. My girlfriend at around this time and unbeknownst to her, said the two of them had spoken the week he was away on business (they also did contract work together and occasionally touched base). That was the week of the 'secret' miscarriage. In that conversation, he had encouraged her to eliminate her stressors from her life -- mainly implying for her to sever friendship ties with me. She had no idea where this was coming from as I had not spoken to her about anything. A red flag shot up for her, but she did ask him to be clear about what he was saying. Did it involve me? He said he 'had to go' without confirming. Her timing, when she called to ask me about that strange conversation after some thought, was awful. I called right away to ask him if he had had a premeditated plan, formulated while I was miscarrying during his business trip? Did he try to intercept my friendship with my girlfriend to protect his business reputation with her? He denied it. He then demanded if I would have a problem if he was seeing someone else... I did not know where this was coming from as our relationship was always 'open'. I guessed that since our relationship was never acknowledged outside of friendship to our families and select friends, and as no more than a working relationship to anyone else who asked (despite the neighbourhood chatter), it was easy for him to discredit both our intimate and friendly relationships. Finally, he deleted my company email account from his business without forewarning. I emailed him about it from my personal account. He said he would no longer be requiring my services. He was gone without any courtesy. No explanation. No discussion. No support. No resolve. I was finally able to get up the courage to share the experience with close friends. One, I was scolded for not using protection (I agreed so we don't need to go there). Two, they wanted to give him a piece of their mind, my girlfriend in particular who had suspicions about his intentions! It finally made sense to her. I made them all promise not to do anything -- I needed their support, not anyone to fight my personal battles for me. Those issues and problems were my own to deal with. They promised and encouraged me to seek counseling. I did. I felt like my recovery from the miscarriage was needlessly delayed... and I was angry at myself for it most of all! I was upset at him as well -- that level of betrayal was painful! After a few more weeks and some counseling, I sent him a sincere note based on what I had learned: "I realize once our decision was made for an abortion, there were a lot of emotions and a deepening pressure. I suspect you felt apprehension on whether I would go through with it or not, casting an additional weight of fear and a wave of distrust into our relationship. That week for me, true, I was torn between not wanting the pregnancy and feeling morally against terminating it. Despite our intended plans, in those first weeks of our miscarriage my emotions severely gripped me and I had an inability to focus, there was a sense of emptiness, incompleteness, devastation, anger and feelings of sadness, remorse, guilt, disbelief, and loss. It generally takes four months to a year-and-a-half to reach a new emotional calm after a miscarriage. Our relationship became more strained and I questioned if we could survive this... How would things be after it was all over? You had sensed my silence, felt it wasn't fair to you, and I was honestly glad you were going away so that I could make sense of my doubts. You had asked me not to 'bolt' and I genuinely promised. I had hoped that upon your return, we could take the steps to move forward one day at a time -- I took comfort that nothing had changed for you. Initially all I had wanted was to together accept the consequence of the pregnancy for both of us. Although the physical trauma eventually drew to an end, the emotional burden remained in full swing for me. As more time passed, increasing turmoil ensued while it suppressed the pain for natural grieving, deviating into anger as in turn you withdrew. I reciprocated that same feeling of unfairness towards your silence that you had towards me at the beginning. I know a lot was said without expressing what really mattered between us and too many accusations prevented the root of the spin to be settled. I suspect we both were suffering. We have felt each others' anger and frustrations, affecting a great relationship. In order to cope, one of the most important things we can do is communicate by sharing our feelings and truly listening to each other to understand what we are each going through. Downplaying, ignoring, dismissing, or deflecting from a lost pregnancy instead of acknowledging it can make coping with its grief even worse long-term. Experiencing a miscarriage forces us to re-evaluate various aspects about ourselves, our relationships, as well as our priorities. Common emotions men face after a miscarriage are shock, helplessness, sorrow, anger, loneliness, guilt, anxiety, low sex drive, and impatience. Although most men do not experience the same extent of emotions as women do, he also does not possess the many hormonal changes she does. Patience and understanding are instrumental. Time will heal. In the first twelve weeks of pregnancy loss, depression and anxiety are common in about 5% of women. After 10 weeks since our miscarriage, I admit that my anxiety attacks are consistent and I continue to shed tears. For yourself, I don't know. It wasn't a planned or wanted pregnancy -- an acknowledged mistake -- but one great misfortune between us lies in not being able to properly and completely grieve its loss. The essential part missing from a positive recovery is each other, thus my legitimate reason to attempt to establish contact, and simply to ensure emotional health in a more supportive fashion for both of us. We really hurt each other, and I am very sorry if I have caused you pain through this. Let's accept the fact that the miscarriage has had a lasting effect on our relationship, but to try and remember that we hold the power to influence whether the effect is for better or worse by supporting and communicating with each other again. I hope for a positive response." His response: "I read your email. While I appreciate your honesty and am glad you are working through this I feel that to not pursue any relationship is the plan that is right for me. Good luck with everything and I mean that in sincerity!" Okay. That was then. The entire experience was extremely life changing. I lost a baby. I lost a best friend. I lost a partner. And I lost a client for contract work. However, nearly a year has gone by and I can finally say that I am okay now. I have been for quite a while. The grieving process has lifted, the sadness has diminished, the hurt is not as prevalent, and the anger and guilt have subsided. I also understand that mourning the loss of the baby will always be something that I will carry forever. I still am somewhat confused over the sequence of events but I have accepted his actions. I will never agree with the manner in which he handled the situation, but I have finally made peace with myself.
Author SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Part IV I recently wrote him a note hoping to find him settled and well. I updated him on how I was. It was really a pleasant start. The exchange was more about our children who have not seen each other and miss each other -- our two older daughters have been trying to make arrangements to get together without success. I stepped in. Would he be able to act 'nice' at drop-offs and pick-ups? Things had settled for me so I am able today to set our differences aside so that the kids could resume and maintain their friendships. I am completely willing. He was not receptive, but I took his response as a positive improvement after so many months of silence. We engaged in another series of short emails, his filled with accusations, and me in defense (again). In my defense, I mistakenly suggested that there were 'kind friends' that stepped in to help me recover from the miscarriage -- paranoid, he immediately deleted my girlfriend from his Facebook Friends. I am afraid that he will next terminate another shared affiliation that he contracts through his business... So I sent him a note: "I am not surprised and suspected you would continue taking measures similar to those of an individual who is using every means to cover up a past with me that is not comfortably resolved. What are you going to do? Delete, filter, and terminate every personal and professional affiliation you and I shared because you do not know at this point which of them I confided in? So silly! The false story about the 'nature of our relationship' had already been outed for some time...!! The neighbourhood whispers were in full swing about us just a few months after we started working together -- I was forthcoming about the information that I received all the way through, if you recall... You may as well move out of Town then if your recent and impending actions have anything to do with me after all this time -- everybody already has a version of 'some' story about us... and I can't say we were that discreet considering the gossip channels that exist here and online! You might as well delete, block, filter, and terminate everyone then... But punish a few good people anyway the instance you are made aware of something you don't like... Did they judge you? Did they confront you? Did they interfere? No... they didn't as they swore to me they wouldn't. If you were not 'hurt' by me as you say, then you are afraid of something! Maybe even embarrassed? I did what I had to to recover from the pregnancy / scheduled termination / miscarriage. I had to take care of myself and I am eternally grateful to those few trusted who stepped in IN CONFIDENCE way back then. NEVER intended as a threat towards you -- it was for ME through to recovery. I had hoped you would've done the task yourself as promised, fully trusted for you to be there, but you chose not to... I sought the support I needed and it's done for me. C'est la vie. You can't hide from the truth -- it will always be there. Move on. Please be receptive to set it aside for the kids. That's all that matters now." His response: "Boo!" His actions are still strong, silly, and extreme, and yet he still will not talk about anything, he has said. I affirmed that I was not looking for that and that I just wanted the kids to continue on with their own relationships -- that the delay had unfortunately hurt all four of them. I offered him to 'start fresh' as simply two parents in the neighbourhood with children who want to play together. I assured we would have minimal contact, just cordial pleasantries in the presence of the children during the exchanges for THEM. He said he does not wish to resume anything with me... I set out that resuming any type of relationship in my mind is picking up where we left off and, guaranteed, that is not my intention! The children's friendships is all I am concerned for and I do not want to influence them for reasons that do not belong to them any longer -- they are innocent. He is again non-responsive. He threatened to set his email filters and to block incoming calls from all of my numbers (I haven't called him or texted him). His daughter is suddenly not responding to my daughter's messages so I suspect that he may have blocked her number on his daughter's phone as well. Yet he claims that I am the one to have blurred all the relationships...?! He said that I never hurt him but if I didn't and if he has dealt with his issues within himself, then why all this after nearly a year? I honestly feel that it took a lot of courage for me to connect with him again, considering... I do not want anything direct with him at all as his true character is not in line with the people I prefer to surround myself with. I am dating others and I am happy! The kids are making it difficult though -- both sides. My girls have spent the last two sessions talking to their divorce counselor about the void they are feeling without them in our lives (we used to see each other daily) and my youngest daughter still cries for them every day. I am doing my best to show empathy towards the children who are desperately hoping to reconnect. I really don't understand what has gone and is going through his mind... Why is he so cold and coming across so selfish? He really is only protecting himself and using every means to cover up a past with me that did not reach resolve... That's fine... but to take it out on the kids? when they are trying to connect? I would like a male perspective on this, if you can afford some time. I am new to this board and I have found little online and in counseling that can help me understand although it is accepted for what it was. I am sincerely looking for mature perspectives. Thank you kindly in advance.
Lovelybird Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Hi, I am sorry for these things, you are a strong woman. IMO he is far less mature than you, and now he acts like a kid who doesn't know compassion and understanding. In the whole thing I read here, he appeared too COLD and too selfish. What kind of future you would have with him even if he returns to you? If he wants to build a future with you, why would he want to hide your relationship with him? It is not a good sign. Well, you know a person when the crisis rises, it is so true. I hope you take more caution in the future, for yourself and your kids. You say you are happy now, well, I think it is a good thing that you seek help from your friends. And dating others maybe can help too. I think it is better that you don't contact him at all, and go on with your life, I know it is hard, but you have to. I am not sure he can have a 180 degree change in the near future. You might win him back, but when you need support and love and understanding, he won't be there. A person won't change that much unless they have a spiritual wakening Wish you All the best
Author SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 No, no... don't want him back at all! The kids want to see each other and as they are too young to head over on their own, we as parents would have to drop them off and pick them up. That would mean that we may need to come into contact at a very minor degree. But I feel so much for the kids, how they were robbed of their best friendships over adult somethings out of their control that they are not made privy of. It's sad for them as they are desperately trying to reconnect. He is standing in their way. He is definitely not the type of person that I wish to surround myself with in any type of relationship -- on the contrary! LOL! That trust is long gone!!
Lovelybird Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Ok, I see. but sounds like you are trying to use any oppotunity to meet him I don't think that get your kids around him is a good idea. Do they want to get close to a man who didn't treat their mother well? How much do you want to compromise? No further, SYL. Some values you cannot afford to lose, you would feel you betrayed yourself and what you believe. He wanted you to give up your belief and trade for his love, what was the result? Anyway it seems better that you are far away from him, anything about him. When you get healed, and have a clear picture, then you would know what step to take. Give yourself sometime apart from him completely.
countingufosagain Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 I was the man in a similar situation and can only explain the emotions that I was going through at the time. We were also in a relationship that everyone knew but was never made public. I was an executive for a company that we both worked for and she was a manager for one of my departments. We had a no fraternization policy that prevented us from becoming public. During our relationship, we had an unplanned pregnancy that we terminated because it wasn't a good time. She was conflicted just as you were and I was the driver for the termination. I was going through a divorce that was devastating because I wanted out of the relationship and my young son was having a difficult time with our separation. When I was initially told of the pregnancy I became so frightened. I felt like a failure in marriage, a disappointment to my son, and an idiot for acting like a teenager not using protection. Once the decision was made to terminate the pregnancy there was a certain calm before the storm. I had validated in my mind that this was the right thing to do for everyone involved. I too thought that eventually we would find a better time to have children and somehow that would make up for what we were about to do. Then the day of termination came and walking into that office was horrible. I became so emotional that I could allow someone that I truly cared for do something against her beliefs. I think she had mentally committed herself to going through it and was actually supportive to me. I couldn't stop crying. I felt guilty, I felt even more guilty that I was glad that we weren't going to have the child. My selfishness to how it was gong to impact me was all that was thought about. We lived a ways apart and have driven 2 cars to the appointment and were going to stay at a hotel that night together so no one would be able to impede our healing process. I felt that I needed to punish myself. I drove my car to the hotel while she was inside and walked back to the clinic in the rain. With every step tears poured from my eyes thinking how could I have allowed this too happen. This woman who was going through this terrible process that she didn't believe in, all for me. The guilt just seemed to be compounding. Once I arrived at the clinic and seeing her conditioned created even more guilt. I wanted to run and hide, act as if this wasn't reality. I couldn't look at her without uncontrollable tears making it even more difficult for her I'm sure. She was the strong one which was even more embarrassing. It was this way the whole entire day making me feel even more pathetic. The next day I did everything I could do to forget it. I went into my cave trying again to validate my actions but this time I couldn't. I knew that due to our relationship not being very mature that adding a child to the equation wasn't the ideal thing to do, but that day a part of our souls died. After the procedure I asked that she not share this situation with anyone (again, it came down to my embarrassment for my actions). We spent a few days apart and I eventually thought that I could help her work through her grief and she came over to my place. We started talking and with every word I became more uncomfortable. The overwhelming sense of guilt grew into psychological self torture. I felt like such a loser and irresponsible which I deemed was out of my character. After a few hours I just couldn't take it anymore. I became angry and started resenting her for how I was feeling as if it were her fault alone. Then the words that I will regret for the rest of my life just came out "stop talking about it, we need to get over it". At that moment I would have said anything to get out of the situation. The devastated look on her face is permanently embedded in my mind. I felt horrible for my actions and even more compounded guilt was sitting directly on my heart. We had numerous more conversations on the situation all with similar outcomes (without the insensitive comments). Unfortunately every March (the time period for which it occured) these old scars resurface to remind me of my poor decision making. Our relationship has never recovered. Ultimately it's the guilt and embarrassment that is so difficult for me to take. The knowing I made a permanent decision on a temporary situation, along with my love of children makes me feel despicable. We all have a self image and this didn't fit mine so I rejected it. Now when the topic comes up I have an immediate barrier that comes up protecting me from the harsh reality of what was and will continue to be until I finally resolve my issues. I have been completely unable to cry since this situation and feel completely broken. I'm now in this stagnant relationship that neither of us can seem to let go. There are other circumstances that don't necessarily coincide with your situation that I have left out. I explained my situation not to get it off my chest, but to possibly provide to you a step by step emotional status of the male perspective. In review of your situation it appears that he can't look past the guilt and every call and text pours a little more salt into his emotional wound. He more than likely feels like a complete loser for the situation and can't face the embarrassment of his poor decision making. He completely understands that he is being selfish but the fear of dealing with the issue is overwhelming. Men are not expressive and as children when we are in pain we are told to suck it up "boys don't cry" so we avoid the situations that cause us pain. He is grieving, but it's a slower painful process and seeing you and your children is just another reminder of his failure. I appreciate your sharing of your situation as I believe that it has helped me understand the female perspective without the emotional ties. I sincerely hope my story provides you with what you are searching for. We men don't try to be awful, we're just scared of being imperfect and shattering our self image of what a man is supposed to be.
Island Girl Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Hi SYL I am not a guy but I read through your entire story and had some info for you. I don't know who this guy is or why your relationship had to be kept a secret but the fact that you accommodated him with that started you off on a bad path. He was able to get everything he wanted and not have to have any responsibility, etc. He treated you all along like a regular "booty call". He didn't really care about you (I don't think he is capable - too selfish and immature) and it is no wonder he is divorced! As far as the miscarriage goes - you give him a lot of undeserved credit and it seems that you have placated him through the whole relationship. I see that in it's purest example when you contacted him after the time period about healing from the miscarriage and you explain that you explain that you both need healing and tell him the symptoms of grief that men experience after a miscarriage. -- Those symptoms are felt by men who want the pregnancy. He never felt connected or had any feelings of doubt about wanting you to have an abortion. His feelings were immediate and absolutely solid. He wanted nothing to do with a child. So he didn't feel the grief you felt. I am sorry to say this because I know you invested a lot of time and experiences into this man but he never really cared for you in the way you thought. I know he said things that led you to believe he did. But keeping your relationship a secret is a clear sign that he is emotionally removed. I believe he is always emotionally removed and is a true narcissist but you allowed yourself to be treated badly by him on certain levels the whole time. I am glad he is out of your life and you aren't demonstrating this relationship to your girls anymore. They model their own relationships after what they see after all and they should see you in an open honest relationship where you can go out for a picnic and hold hands. I am just so shocked that you gave him so much permission to discard your feelings and excuse his poor behavior. Right up to the very end. Promising him that you wouldn't confide in your friends, waiting around and "understanding" when he brushed you aside and put you off. I just don't get how you would be so self sacrificing for this man. You give him entirely too much credit that is completely undeserved. I don't care who he is or what he does for a living - no man would be in my life treating me as if I don't matter or that I am a secret. You owe him no "protection". You can and should talk to anyone you want about anything you want and that includes your own personal relationships. Who they were with and the events of such are yours to tell and as far as how he has behaved (using you until it became a little too dangerous and was no longer convenient for him) - you should!
Author SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 I don't know who this guy is or why your relationship had to be kept a secret but the fact that you accommodated him with that started you off on a bad path. He was able to get everything he wanted and not have to have any responsibility, etc. He treated you all along like a regular "booty call". He didn't really care about you (I don't think he is capable - too selfish and immature) and it is no wonder he is divorced! Hi Island Girl, Of course I could not type up the entire story (it was long enough) to explain the nature of all our relationship(s). The point of the story for me was to understand his perspective then and today about the miscarriage... Divorce is difficult and I would not wish it on anyone -- I refuse to judge someone for it. He is divorced because his ex wife cheated on him repeatedly. After we started working together, we both discovered that we were experiencing similar life trials, as I was in a nasty separation with my ex too. We became fast friends and counted on each other for emotional support. So we had a working relationship, then a best friendship, and then it evolved into an intimate relationship. Significant trust from the core was present. We loved and cared about each other, we were attracted to each other, but we both understood that we were not 'in love' with each other. It was an 'open' relationship in that regard. It was comfortable and pressure-free. It was a while before we became intimate and the reason it was kept 'secret' was to protect the children. They were not ready for mom's or dad's new 'special person' and we vowed to protect them from unnecessary hurt and additional confusion. The children's emotional redevelopment was a top priority for both of us. Our two older daughters became best friends so that they could discuss the divorce process with each other. They bonded. We promised them jointly that we would do whatever we could to ensure that anytime they needed each other, we would facilitate it. It's not ever that I want this man back in my personal life -- it could never be. The children, however, should not be punished for adult mistakes in a compartmentalized intimate relationship that they were not aware of. It has raised too many questions about 'why' they can't see each other any more.
Author SYL Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 I explained my situation not to get it off my chest, but to possibly provide to you a step by step emotional status of the male perspective. In review of your situation it appears that he can't look past the guilt and every call and text pours a little more salt into his emotional wound. He more than likely feels like a complete loser for the situation and can't face the embarrassment of his poor decision making. He completely understands that he is being selfish but the fear of dealing with the issue is overwhelming. Men are not expressive and as children when we are in pain we are told to suck it up "boys don't cry" so we avoid the situations that cause us pain. He is grieving, but it's a slower painful process and seeing you and your children is just another reminder of his failure. I appreciate your sharing of your situation as I believe that it has helped me understand the female perspective without the emotional ties. I sincerely hope my story provides you with what you are searching for. We men don't try to be awful, we're just scared of being imperfect and shattering our self image of what a man is supposed to be. Hi Counting UFOs Again, It took a lot of courage for you to share and I am so grateful for your story -- it is exactly what I was looking for and I hope others will step forward with similar stories. The term used for mourning through a miscarriage is 'silent grief'. I do not think that it is 'wrong' how both man and woman process their own grief but I do know that communication is key. Silence, although common after such a loss, never did anybody any favours. I don't think he was bad... In fact, I said so in one of my last short notes to him. The level of friendship and bond we shared before the pregnancy and miscarriage was unmatched to anything I had ever experienced before (read post reply above) -- it was the same for him and often commented on. Although he hurt me then and I cannot understand fully his actions today, how it affected and deteriorated our separate level of friendship, I find it hard to believe that his behaviours are not projected towards me by how he feels about himself. Guilt, embarrassment, and anger are evident -- but they are his emotions. I have dealt with mine and I had hoped that he had as well for himself and his well-being. There is no way that anyone could say they would be entirely unaffected by this, despite what he says, if there was previously a caring relationship behind it. Pouring salt on his wounds is an eye-opener. I thank you for that. He continues to need space no matter how much more the children will continue to suffer. You are lucky that you are still within your relationship. While mine is forever lost, it is never too late for you to revisit your emotional state then and now with her. I believe it might actually enhance your relationship. I can tell you that if that opportunity was made available to me in your situation, I would be receptive to hearing you out. Nobody is bad here -- you have just dealt with the situation your own separate ways. When the time is right, you will unify your grieving process. You will know when that time presents itself. Communication. It's not easy when the matter is so important and where a lot of dormant hurt remains but it is worthwhile in my opinion. Whichever path you choose to take beyond this, at least you know that joint closure would be achieved for both of you -- whether you remain together thereafter or give each other permission to go your separate ways. Please keep in touch.
Author SYL Posted February 15, 2009 Author Posted February 15, 2009 Are there any more men who would like to come forward? I know that this is a lengthy read but I would appreciate it. Thanks!
Author SYL Posted February 15, 2009 Author Posted February 15, 2009 It was a real blow and I will never forget that incredible spin between him and I. I looked at it recently from the children's point who want to see each other -- they drew me back in for them. I am emotionally separated where he is concerned for sure, but was connected to the kids. I am fairly healthy that way and I am quite capable of separating myself. I sent him my last note and I have decided not to continue advocating for the children: "I cannot affirm more strongly that I have personally and honestly moved on. If there is any doubt, I am 'out' there and seeing others once again... I have been in counseling and have taken part in group sessions about miscarriage and loss. I have learned significantly from men whose stories mirror what yours would be in our last situation. You are not alone and I have a greater understanding for where you were and are at today. Although my intentions were genuine, our recent exchange was less than pleasant -- I truly apologize for my part in that. I reacted to projected negativity derived from a situation that remains 'jointly' unresolved. My purpose was not to reopen a past sensitive matter. Anyway, going back because it did resurface this week, I cannot imagine what it was like for you to observe my spin, similarly for you what it was like for me to witness your eventual withdrawal. Communication. I knew it was going to be difficult. I knew things would change. I know nothing will ever be the same. Too much was said, too much remains in silence. We brought out each others' worst -- passion, if not careful, can be destructive and we failed. I don't think either one of us was wrong, just different in coping styles. I have come to terms with myself that I was irresponsible that night for myself and that I had taken too many risks against the knowledge of our fertile capacities. I was angry. I was guilty. What a mistake!? Better yet, what a lesson... However, through my growth, I am able to acknowledge that the drama I endured does not today influence the depth of the relationship we had built overall. Despite the painful way it all ended, for me it does not cancel my better recollections. There was a time when I didn't want to give the relationship any positive credit BUT, as I am in a healthier place now, I cannot and refuse to deny it. I am able to cherish and preserve the memories that brought so much energy and joy to my life then -- while I manage the rest separately, detached, and still recognize that there was indeed a deep feeling of hurt and disappointment. The two pinnacles today rest inside their own unique compartments, closed. It is hard for me to believe that you feel nothing over the loss of our relationship -- that is, if it was true in your core and heart as I always believed it to be, unquestionably. I lost a baby, a best friend, a colleague, and a partner. So did you. By your extreme actions and reactions to date, recent and past, I fathom that our relationships were quite possibly authentic and that certain levels of varying emotions remain amidst our estrangement for you. I had hoped that you were further along for yourself and your well-being. For it, I understand why it is easier for you to obliterate every part of me from your life and I am saddened about your current lack of interest to overcome our past for the children. Again, love for your family by my daughters has outlasted circumstance which had drawn my sincere attention to the children's sense of void about all that was good between them. When you are ready, you will realize that my aim with the children has been pure. You already know my deepest core inside out -- that has and will never change. There will come a time if ever to call for a truce, maturely as adults, keeping in mind that this all has unfortunately affected four innocent lives -- this is essentially what we had set out to avoid. All the best." I have already reached the conclusion that I was always a far greater person than he will ever be. In closing, psychology is a great interest of mine. When I needed the information then to try to understand his actions during the miscarriage, I couldn't find anything. It was frustrating! I felt so alone and it was awful. By coming forward, I hope that it's enough to help others in similar situations. I had anticipated, however, that more men would've stepped up with their stories. There's always time -- I know there are plenty of them out there.
doomed Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Not defending this guy. From the moment I read "will not support you physically, emotionally or financially." I think I had already formed my opinion of this guy. Not to mention those inane email replies. Didn't he ever write I LOVE YOU ??? They seem so formal, like you're not a lover, but a, a, an esteemed colleague. I also think there's more at play than a man not dealing with his emotions. Having gone through *six* miscarriages with my missus and the death of an adult child, I can tell you that emotions get whacked out for everybody. I'll just describe my first. Oldest (step) kid, now deceased, is in jail for christmas time. Missus is pregnant. We get a call from kid's jail supervisor or whatever their job is, telling us that kid pounded somebody else and put him in surgery with a broken face. A month later, mom lost the baby, and because of the way they can date with ultrasounds, we did the math and knew exactly what was going on the day of the loss. The MC turned into a hemorrhage. As a nurse, she had taught me how to do blood pressures, etc., and I was in the bathroom with her rubbing her back, helping her lie down. Helping her up again. Listening to her talk to the on call doctor telling her that she's ok as long as she doesn't go through a maxi pad an hour. The missus says I can't go four minutes on a maxi pad. The stupid doc says OH, well, you can go another hour easy. Meanwhile, she loses more blood. At one point she lost consciousness for a few seconds and came to with me dialing the phone and her head in my lap. "Who are you calling ?" "911. I'm in way over my head here". She says "nevermind, I'm going to die now.", and she closed her eyes. I watch her start to shiver and convulse. I'll never be able to adequately describe the shock, grief, impotant rage, sadness, helplessness and anger that went through me then. I'm supposed to save and protect her, and I could do nothing but watch her die. She comes back to me after a minute or two of being elsewhere, fighting for her life, as she later described it. The ambulance arrives. They were "slow coded" meaning not told to rush anything. They get there and go into shock themselves at the blood everywhere and were not ready for this. I see him on his radio saying "bring the lifepack when you get here". They can't get the IV started and the missus is like "I have great veins, where did all my veins go?". Surreal is the only word that comes to mind. They finally get an IV started in an attempt to turn her blood into cool aid and keep her alive, then practically stand her on her head in the ambulance and off they go. I'm chasing in a car. In for a D + C. I'm left wandering around the hospital, freaking doc doesn't even look for me or have me paged. I hope her fn dinner date was worth it. Now I'm only feeling worry and anger. I'm finally allowed to see my wife, where I can assure myself that she's ok. Then I had to go home to all the other kids there, make sure they're taken care of and then clean that place. OMG. I am just too numb too stand it now and everything is mechanical. This affected me deeply on many levels and had me bawling all over again just writing about it. That was our first MC. We spent a month grieving and trying to cope before I ran out of steam and could no longer be a support to her. It was the first time I actually raised my voice at her in anger and demanded to know "it's been a month, how long this is going to go on ?". I have been called a cold and emotionless bastard by both of my wives, but oh yeah, guys have them, and those were mine. That was eight years ago, and the problems that sprouted from that one night have led us, step by step, to where we are now ready to divorce after five more MCs, the death of her oldest, more jail for other kids, nutty X's being exposed for sexual abuse, you name it. All of these trials could have been better handled if we, or at least I, got counseling then. You were a way smart lady to go for yourself. doomed
Author SYL Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 Not defending this guy. From the moment I read "will not support you physically, emotionally or financially." I think I had already formed my opinion of this guy. Not to mention those inane email replies. Didn't he ever write I LOVE YOU ??? They seem so formal, like you're not a lover, but a, a, an esteemed colleague. I also think there's more at play than a man not dealing with his emotions. Having gone through *six* miscarriages with my missus and the death of an adult child, I can tell you that emotions get whacked out for everybody. Hi Doomed, Thanks for your coming forward... We were not 'in love' in this relationship but did share and spoke of love in a caring friendship type of way on occasion. His notes prior to the pregnancy were much warmer and friendlier -- he became very cold and distant after the miscarriage. He shut down, his way to deal with it perhaps... He could not handle my emotions throughout the ordeal and, yes, they were whacked out -- that's where I refer to my 'spin'. My notes to him, the ones copied above, were written in thought and while I was collected for the most part. I felt keeping open channels to communicate was important, even when I only had a fraction of myself to work from. He did raise his voice with me on numerous occasions -- he never had before. His anger was taken out on me over the phone (email is a record) and he never discussed it face-to-face. When he shut me out, I asked why he was 'punishing' me. He said he wasn't punishing me but our relationships were not working on a fundamental level. When I said that it was due to not addressing the pregnancy / miscarriage, he accused me of taking it in circles. He felt he needed to disengage from the 'circles'. I felt he was avoiding the root of the situation. I do not know what his full emotions are / were, just the anger and frustration he projected onto me. I can only suspect by talking to other men about theirs through such a loss what they could've / could be(en) -- and why. He has denied me the opportunity to grieve together and it will unfortunately resurface for him (like the similar situation with his ex wife) until it can be properly addressed and dealt with. I cared about this man once so I was naturally concerned about his well-being throughout. In the end, I sought what I knew I needed to overcome my own loss. C'est la vie. It was twelve weeks delayed, however so I really sympathize with you, maybe even concerned -- eight years? I know how hard it was waiting to resolve my grief with my partner and I hope that you yourself never think it's too late to talk to anyone, even today. They call miscarriage the 'silent grief' for a reason, but it doesn't have to be so... I can tell by your outpouring here that you still carry a significant amount of weight... (((hugs))) Time to end the silence.
doomed Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Hugs right back to you, SYL, thank you. I'm not trying to say we/I suffered over this single thing for eight years, but there were changes to both of us then, that I think led to our now separated state. I think she became needier from the first MC. I ended up with emotional circuit breakers that cause me to lose patience after taking in somebody's pain hour after hour of anguish, guilt, grief, anger, fear, love, desperation, you name it. I'd need a break. After a month of this, my patience ended in a way that forever left bad memories for my aspiring X. Add to that all the other MCs, kids in prison, death, as well as life's more normal trials and I could never meet her escalating need for support. Thats why I'm doomed
Author SYL Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 Hugs right back to you, SYL, thank you. I'm not trying to say we/I suffered over this single thing for eight years, but there were changes to both of us then, that I think led to our now separated state. I am so sorry to hear... Things do spiral out of control but there is always a root. When you wrote that changes in your relationship began after enduring the first miscarriage, then that is where you need to go back to -- eight years ago. Something happened where you lost the ability to communicate through coping, and it unfortunately compounded on your relationship as each significant event presented itself thereafter. Thats why I'm doomed Nobody is ever doomed (read 'The Secret'). I could tell you my life story but it would be more than 45pgs long on this board! Anyway, it's never the cards that you are dealt in life, but what you do with them. These life challenges become 'tools' of knowledge if handled appropriately through and through. I hope for you that you can find the strength within yourself to seek some counseling. Aside from achieving closure, learning to understand in depth will only help you and your future relationships overall. (((hugs))) Please keep in touch here or in private.
doomed Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Oh, I don't think I lost the ability to communicate through coping, or perhaps cope through communication, but there's only so much that can be said. What I'm sure I've lost is some capacity to just sit and be a good listener. I think I'm still an awesome listener, but I still haven't met the needs. I feel like, say, I can save up $5,000 pretty quickly (recharge my ability to listen), but when the need arrives its always for $5,001 or more. That deficit then gets held against me so that the next time the need arises, I start out in debt for failing to listen completely the last time, which means more and more of my capacity is spent listening to how I failed before, until today when that's all I hear and nothing current can get addressed. The result is what I've taken to calling "issue creep" and have told her so, so many times over the years. Its her way of escalating a situation. A silly example would be her accusing me of stepping on her toes. No matter what I say about her toes, I also hear how I kicked her in the shins the day before. When I get talking about the day before, I get the week before. Then the month, then the year. I have been issue creeped all the way back to before we were married on many occasions. Oftentimes I wasn't even involved in her toes, but something reminded her that I was once involved in her toes. Then its time to talk about her shins again. Then come the assumptions, which when challenged magnify the intensity of whatever and cause further issue creep. Then comes the defense, because I get sick of being a punching bag, which is always met with hostility. I just cant keep up with the emotional machine gun. Sometimes I lose patience with it all, just by losing patience, sometimes I have to be working, and have to attend a meeting or some such, and that is held against me as well. Prior to our separation, I worked at home and so was easily available... I guess I still work at home, just a different home now. So thats the pattern. Her outpouring. My circuit breaker. My impatience. Her sharp tongue. Escalate. Escalate. War. Repeat. Have a new trial. Repeat. Repeat. Have another trial. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. She says if we could ever get through a conversation, then this wouldn't happen. I say that if these are "conversations" then world war II was a "little spat". I tend to opine that not many "conversations" are held when one is holding an emotional machine gun, and knows how to use it. And of course I don't help matters when I get cornered. If I'm not allowed to exit a conversation, or get I followed around the house, the yard, whatever, then I've gotten positively reprehensible on many occasions. I've ended up doing some of the dumbest things in life acting out against the pattern. I also didn't mean to imply that I never got counseling, I meant only that I should have gotten counseling then. When the marriage got really bad we did counseling, oh boy did we. I had mine, she had hers, the kids had theirs, we had a marriage counselor. The first action I took in counseling was to sign all the necessary documents to make my counseling an open book. I had it so loose any stranger on the street could peruse my charts if they felt the need. My missus refused any such action, as was her right, but still... it left me feeling that she wasn't as willing as I to lay it all out on the table. Since four counselors weren't enough and the stories so different, they brought in a consulting neuropsychiatrist armed with ink blots and black and white photographs designed to be content neutral so that our opinions provide clues to our mental states. The results of all this testing were that we were basically normal, well adjusted individuals. My counselor said I had just enough out of bounds data to make me interesting. The missus hired a lawyer to file for divorce (this was may 2008 by now). I was unaware that she was war chesting until she helped herself to our joint bank account for the final $600. She was shocked and really pissed off that all I had to say about the lawyer was to request what kinds of discovery he wanted to do, so I'd have it all written up and ready to go upon request. If she wanted out, then I wouldn't slow her down and would actually facilitate it. I offered to save her some legal fees by writing the QDRO for her because I have some experience in that area. Some days later we had a previously scheduled 5-way meeting with all of the counselors and us. They didn't really have any sort of agenda, so I took the floor and told them that I've had most of them on the payroll for more than a year, and now I want some results for my money. There was now a clock ticking because the missus has retained an attorney and is filing for divorce. Few epiphanies came from the meeting. Her shrink said that her filing for a divorce probably wasn't a good idea. Mine asked that if we're all so well adjusted, how come five of them can't account for the differences in our view points. I got a chuckle when the ink blot lady said we need to keep problem solving conversations short, 15-30 minutes. LOL. Somebody said I seem far too ready for confrontation. I said ya think? I've had ya'll on my payroll for year, my missus wrote "doomed" on a bullet and gave it to a hired gun. Nobody has any real answers to anything and I seem far too ready for confrontation ? I'd think you people might have picked up on the confrontation over the last year. Beyond that all the usual, fighting is bad okay ? name calling is bad okay ? fighting in front of the kids is bad okay ? If you ask me, the marriage had reached its absolute worst during counseling. She changed her mind about the divorce a week or so later, but kept him on retainer. During a later war cycle, she screamed "just wait until the judge hears that you're out to control the world". Now this was something that was in my ... hang on ... 10 page psych profile that says "there are times that doomed withdraws from experiencing his emotions and attempts to exert control over his affective response. doomed is spontaneous, nonconforming, and appears to have higher intelligence". When I actually got hip to "judge" and "control" I asked have you been discussing our counseling with your attorney ? She hemmed and hawed and tried to recant and ultimately said "I was distracted that day and I really don't remember." I immediately wrote up revocations to all of the hipaa agreements I signed that made my therap(ies) an open book. I also scheduled an exit interview with my personal therapist and requested a log of any external requests for my charts. There were no external accesses, but all of the five therapists at this professional center are considered "internal" and don't need a log. I had been already talking to my counselor about when and how I should be thinking about exiting counseling. We went back to our initial conversations where I wanted to talk about figuring out my marriage, why I lose patience, anger management I thought I might need, how to see things from her side, etc. We added all the things discussed, including that MC and my reactions to it. We had tried a couple of anxiety meds, but since I wasn't the one who was anxious they didn't do anything. I did acquire a prescription for something fast acting that let me knock myself into unconsciousness though Only ever took 2-3 of the things, they scare me. Let's just say that the exit interview with her included a note with the name and number of her friend and divorce lawyer. That was in December last year. I'm now seven weeks separated at the request of my missus and she won't leave me alone. Machine guns and issue creeping me out continues. I think it shocked her to the core that when she said "just get the F out" for the umpteenth time, I said "OK", found an apartment, and moved out. I already have a "what does she want?" thread elsewhere. OMG. This is so long I feel like I hijacked your thread! I'm sorry, but since I wrote it all I'll post it and maybe you can glean just a little more understanding about men from it Sorry about that (((SYL))) ... doomed
Author SYL Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 Hey doomed, First, you really ought to change your name because you are not -- negative energies even in the slightest forms will continue to bring you down (read 'The Secret'). You have had a series of unfortunate experiences but I always believe that there is a silver lining in every situation. Like I said, if I could type up my life story in Coles Notes, it would take up 45pgs on this board! I am not sure why so many counselors were involved in your marital case... In fact, I find it somewhat unusual. Something broke down in your marriage and from what I can tell, it involves her near death experience during your wife's first miscarriage. I can understand why she has kept issue creeping -- nothing ever got resolved and as other issues presented themselves, they compounded on your marriage. If the issue involves more than one person, as is the case in your marriage, then both of you have to be willing to do this. Read the following: I have a logical mind and I am far too intelligent intellectually and emotionally for most. One of my best abilities is to break it all down -- every situation -- and isolate the root in its raw form. This can take a day or a week or more. It's like a 'time out' to reflect and fully understand what you are feeling -- I personally call it 'stewing.' In that time, eliminate all the external factors and the excuses because it might be 'too hard' to remove yourself from the immediate emotions. Be totally honest with yourself and understand that it's never not your fault -- it takes two (or more, depending on the situation). Similarly as in my circumstance above, 'he' didn't get me pregnant. WE got pregnant. I was no angel, I know that now, while I had hormones to contend with... He was no saint. He had no patience and retreated -- he put me out like trash. It took me a while of 'stewing' to realize that despite his actions, I control how I feel about myself and I am NOT trash. Anyway, doomed, once you are settled and ready after your reflection, then you are better prepared to discuss and reach resolve, provided your partner will have embraced the same process. Then, and only then, you can resolve your situation together. This may not help your marital situation now but it might help you through your separation.
Author SYL Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 I guess he did not want a baby. Simply, I didn't either. That wasn't the whole issue.
Author SYL Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 Okay, I came across this article today and I am pleasantly surprised that I was already on the right path -- for ME (he is still non-responsive and clearly not ready). This is what I have been trying to do in my process. 1 through 6 is complete. I am now at 7, most of the thoughts and questions already in my mind naturally since I wrote my last note to him the other day (which was #6). ---- Completing Relationships Consciously Completing relationships is often one of the most painful experiences of life. Because of this, people tend to avoid dealing with completion altogether. There are four ways we have observed that relationships can be completed; death, drifting apart, abrupt expulsion / ejection from the relationship, and conscious completion. Sometimes completion is only about changing the form of the relationship and recreating it, not necessarily the end of the relationship altogether. A good example of this is when parents divorce; they are still responsible for co-parenting. Consequently they are remaining in relationship, albeit a different form than marriage and romance. When people drift apart, it is often because there were things they were afraid to talk about. The cumulative effect of avoiding important conversations about difficult issues is emotional numbing and distancing. Often, the eventual outcome is drifting apart. Geographical distance can also lead to drifting apart, as well as a lack of common interests. Sometimes, events occur in relationships that cause a sudden and abrupt end to relationships. An example of this could be a business partnership in which one partner is found committing illegal or unethical acts that compromise the life or reputation of the business and partners involved. Hurt feelings that people don't have the skills or inclination to talk about and work through, can also lead to an abrupt ending of a relationship. Much more rare is for relationships to be completed consciously. That is because there is some skill involved and a high level of self-awareness and compassion. We offer for your consideration the following ten essential skills for consciously completing relationships. 1 | Be alert to how the completion impacts the identity concerns of everyone involved. Our sense of self is very much tied to our most important relationships, whether personal or business, and when an important relationship completes it can have a painful impact on our thoughts and feelings about ourselves. It can cause us to question our conception of reality and our place in it. 2 | Acknowledge and integrate the value and learning from the relationship. Remember from our soul's perspective relationships are for learning and creating. If a relationship is completing, it indicates that we have probably learned most of the lessons available for us in that relationship or new creations are calling us to a new path. Completion may be thought of as a graduation. 3 | Own up to mistakes without self-invalidation. A valuable point of view is to consider that everyone is always doing the best they can with the resources available to them - even you. Undoubtedly, if we had it to do all over again, there is almost always something we would do differently. It's essential to conscious completion to acknowledge our mistakes. That is a part of the learning. 4 | Make apologies. Even though we are not responsible for other peoples' feelings, it is also true that our words and actions have impact on others. If there is any way that you have spoken or behaved that has caused others pain, it is important to know how to make sincere and effective apologies from a place of self-love and compassion for others. 5 | Redefine your common path -- Create a new form for the relationship. You may be moving from romantic partner to friend; or from marriage partner to parenting partner; or business partner to belonging to the same associations. The most important part in creating a new form is clarifying the purpose of the new relationship. 6 | Articulate the highest spiritual thought about the relatioship. This requires looking at your relationship from your soul's perspective which is beyond time and immediate circumstances. It allows you to acknowledge and appreciate how you have grown and developed in the relationship. There is a feeling of gratitude and blessing about the relationship that acts as a balm, soothing the temporary wounds of separation. 7 | Know what you need to feel complete. Are there things you need to say or requests you need to make? Are there missing pieces of information that would help you feel complete if you had them? Do you need to offer or ask for forgiveness for anything? 8 | Generate a safe space for completion conversation. Make sure everything that needs to be said or done for everyone to feel complete is communicated in a spirit of love and dignity. Creating this kind of atmosphere can be challenging when there are hurt feelings and unresolved misunderstanding. It can be valuable to bring in a coach to facilitate the completion conversation. 9 | Allow for a healthy expression of grief, fear, anger or any other emotion. Learning to be present to someone else's upset without taking it personally is a high level relationship skill, but it can be learned. It is important because the relationship won't feel complete without the acknowledgment of important, and often powerful, feelings. You also need to love yourself enough to acknowledge and express your own feelings. Unacknowledged feelings tend to show up in other relationships, which is why this part is so important. 10 | Accept and flow with change. This is a time for us to acknowledge that we are each the source of our own happiness. This can be an impetus for us to let go of the notion that we need a particular person to actualize our full potential for wellbeing. With every ending there are new beginnings. Trust your own Higher Self who is always guiding you to your greatest good. What does completion feel like? How do you know when you are consciously complete in a relationship? When you can think of the other person and not have any bad feelings of regret or pain, rather you are able to feel gratitude for all that the relationship was and all that you have learned from it. Completion can feel like anything from neutral (no negative charge) to love and appreciation. Anything less is just not, well, complete. ---- I hope this will help others who are finding ways for closure in their break-up. Good luck!
countingufosagain Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Hi SYL, Again from a mans point of view, your need to communicate would appear that you are still not over him. I understand that each of your children had relationships with each other, but there seems to be something more. I think that ceasing all communications with him would be best for your situation as he is either not willing or unable to face the the reality of the situation. I honestly feel for you and understand your desire to move on. With all of the ties that you shared together, emotional, professional, and parental it has to be extremely difficult. I can imagine his thought with every email though, it's that you still haven't moved on despite the content. I don't believe that it's healthy to allow someone or something to live in your head rent free. It's obvious to me through your writing that you are extremely bright and caring person which is his loss. He will one day realize that he's lost a best friend and a valuable contractor and may eventually be able to face the situation with you. You should take this time to share your wonderfulness with the world knowing, that at the end of the day you were a much better friend to him than he was to you. I would bet that he is having a challenging time with his children wanting to hang out with yours as well. It's even more difficult to handle emotions when children are involved. I have personally learned a lot from you and your experience. As you mentioned in a previous email with The Secret, something brought me to your post and I'm better for it. I'm reading a book called beyond positive thinking by Dr. Robert Anthony that you may find of interest. I have read a few of his books that have helped me through some challenging situations that were having a pernicious affect on my life and attitude. Again, I wish you the best!
Author SYL Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 Hi Counting UFOs Again, Thanks for your thoughts. No, I do not hang onto this man and I am sincere in my notes to him. We were not in contact for quite a while until I contacted him about the children last week. To be honest, I was surprised that he had even engaged but when I saw the anger still in his writings, I came to the conclusion that he has not reached inner resolve (he still 'hates' me). My last note to him was letting him know that I am ahead of where he left me, could set our differences aside for the kids, and that I was sorry that he wasn't further along to be able to do the same. Basically, I am dropping it, my advocating for the kids -- he is clearly not ready for it and tightening up into himself, regardless of how far I have come. Thanks for your wishes.
Author SYL Posted February 17, 2009 Author Posted February 17, 2009 I'm reading a book called beyond positive thinking by Dr. Robert Anthony that you may find of interest. What is this book about?
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