What about Valentine's Day?

[five&dime]

I was hoping to get some quick feedback regarding Valentine's Day.

 

WW still works with OM, seven months after D-Day of their EA. She's never written "the letter"...she's lied about NC (and I'm talking about "personal" NC; obviously they still work together, which is horrible, but I've also caught her through private work emails, even recently, maintaining some level of personal contact with OM. Obviously, I don't "see" what's going on between them at their office.)

 

So, how would you handle Valentine's Day? We have two children 8 and 9 years old who we've shielded from this crisis the best we can. They know things aren't quite right with mommy and daddy, but we're still functioning as a family unit the best we can, and the kids still remain happy for the most part. Obviously, we want Valentine's Day to be nice for the children.

 

What do I do about Valentine's Day for WW given her the continued personal contact with OM (personal contact which she denied, again, exists anymore just this morning).

[Dexter Morgan]

I was hoping to get some quick feedback regarding Valentine's Day.

 

WW still works with OM, seven months after D-Day of their EA. She's never written "the letter"...she's lied about NC (and I'm talking about "personal" NC; obviously they still work together, which is horrible, but I've also caught her through private work emails, even recently, maintaining some level of personal contact with OM. Obviously, I don't "see" what's going on between them at their office.)

 

So, how would you handle Valentine's Day?

 

She doesn't deserve acknowledgement on V-day.

 

You acknowledge your children on V-day and get them cards and stuff.

 

 

What do I do about Valentine's Day for WW given her the continued personal contact with OM?

 

If she still refuses to sever ties with him, maybe her V-day gift should be a pink slip?

 

Really, why do you stay with her? For the kids? Understandable, but more out of desperation to do what you THINK is right for them.

 

But its not a reason to stay with a cheater, especially one that won't sever ties from their #$%$# interest.

[jwi71]

I second Dexter.

 

Your W gets nothing - not even a "Happy Valentine's Day".

 

Get your kids the usual.

[Owl]

I disagree...be a romantic.

 

Show up at her work with flowers, chocolates, and a lovely card. INSIST on delivering them in person...and do so in front of EVERYONE.

 

Make a huge show about how much you love her, care for her, etc...

 

And watch her reactions, her co-worker's reactions, and especially HIS reactions.

 

What have you got to lose?

[65tr6]

I like owl's idea. Here, take kids with you when you do that !

[Owl]

Heck...since this guy's such a good friend to her and all...why don't you INSIST on taking him to dinner with the two of you tonite, so that you can get to know him better?

 

After all, if he's HER friend, there's no reason why he can't be YOUR friend as well, right?

 

See how comfortable that dinner is. Watch how hard your wife will try to scramble out of doing this...

 

Tell her that since it's just a friendship...there's no reason why that friendship can't include you, right? And let her know that this is one good way of "reassuring you" that there's nothing to this other than friendship...you can get to know him and realize that all your fears were pointless, right?

 

Hey...you know the saying...

 

"Keep your friends close..."

[jwi71]

Scratch my idea.

 

Follow Owl's...

[five&dime]

Yeah, fat chance, Owl! I've met OM a number of times, even been out with him a time or two (likes to drink a lot). He knows the score with me. He'd run for the hills if he saw me...

[Lucky_One]

Give your kids what you would typically give them.

 

I sort of like Owl's idea, sick as it is. And while you are in the office, make sure you give her a big old kiss with lots of tongue and a little ass grab. Wink and tell her that was just part of the afterglow from last night. Make sure you mention the babysitter she got, and how you have a jacuzzi suite at the swankiest hotel you have in town for Saturday night.

 

And steal her cell phone for the weekend. Shame it got "lost" in the couch cushions, while being unfortunately cut off.

[Dexter Morgan]

I disagree...be a romantic.

 

Show up at her work with flowers, chocolates, and a lovely card. INSIST on delivering them in person...and do so in front of EVERYONE.

 

Make a huge show about how much you love her, care for her, etc...

 

And watch her reactions, her co-worker's reactions, and especially HIS reactions.

 

What have you got to lose?

 

His self-respect and dignity when she continues to cavort with the other man.

[Lucky_One]

Well, the continuing cavorting is another topic.

 

He asked for advice about Valentine's.

[five&dime]

WW would see right through it. I don't want to be a hypocrit with her.

 

What you're proposing is merely sending a message to OM. My attitude is f*** him. He knows. And he'd see right through what I was doing. They'd both see right through it.

 

I actually like the idea of making V-day all about the kids while WW savors the sweet taste of zero.

[reservoirdog1]

Compelling though Owl's idea is in some respects... overall, I'm with Dexter. You're being completely emasculated and disrespected by her. She continues to lie to you, after already betraying your trust. Your marriage may be a priority to you, but it's clearly not to her, or not nearly as much as it should be. If the marriage were so important to her, she would quit her job, and never speak to the OM again. Period.

 

Make a point of getting your kids something for V-Day. Don't get her anything. Instead write her a letter, saying something to the effect that you realize it's V-Day, but that you're not inspired to do anything about it this year because she's continuing to lie to you and disrespect you, and you won't tolerate that from your spouse. Be firm, not angry or insulting. If she gets pissy or hurt or upset at you for writing that, stand your ground. Don't let her talk you into believing that you were a jerk for writing that.

 

I think you need to start working on YOU. She's not going to stop her crappy behaviour or break it off with the OM just because you want her to; that much is clear. You need to become somebody who looks good, seems jazzed about life, and doesn't "need" her. Take up some new interests that don't involve her. Start exercising regularly. Update your wardrobe and hairstyle. You need her to start worrying that she has something to lose if she doesn't shape up and fly right... because right now, she doesn't think that. She knows that she can treat you as her little cuckold, and you won't do anything.

 

Prove her wrong, dude. Once she's realized that you're changing and that you don't "need" her as much as she thinks you do, you'll be in a far stronger position to demand that she find another job and never speak to the OM again.

 

Her shyt has gone far enough. This far. No further.

[Trialbyfire]

Why are you still with her? Don't prove a thing to her. She either has to own up to her issues, taking full personal responsibility and giving it her all through remorse, or you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Don't try to "win" her affections back. You're just playing into her external validation game. Real men don't fight over someone who's treated them abusively.

 

Let her go. She's not worth your pain and heartache. Seeing her daily is just a reminder of this.

[Owl]

That's what I don't get, either.

 

Are you wanting to recover your marriage?

 

If so...then you need to force an END to this situation.

 

You're not going to "talk her into it". You've let HER talk YOU into putting up with it this long...she's not going to voluntarily change now.

 

You either need to FORCE a change...or you need to call a divorce lawyer.

 

Seriously...can you explain to me how your plan recovers your marriage? I don't see it.

[Owl]

Here's the thing...I suspected my wife's EA for about 2 months before I got the "proof".

 

During that time, I questioned myself a lot...if she really IS falling in love with this guy, what am I going to do? Divorce? Try to save my marriage? What will it take to do either of those things?

 

Then d-day. I got my "proof". She couldn't deny it in any fashion.

 

I left the house for a few hours that morning to clear my head, think for sure about what I wanted to do.

 

When I came back, her and OM had thrown a huge wrench in my plans by suddenly buying plane tickets for her to fly away and live with him.

 

The flight was to leave four days later. She waited that long so that she could make sure I was going to be there for the kids if she left.

 

In those four days, I did a LOT of soul searching, and decided I wanted to stay married and fix our relationship. But to do that, I had to find a way to get her to stay, and then find a way to get OM out of our life so we could focus on fixing things.

 

I managed to accomplish both the day she was supposed to fly away.

 

I hadn't counted on her "withdrawl" symptoms at the end of the affair (not knowing much about infidelity at the time)...so that delayed any recovery plans of mine by about 6 weeks. BUT, during that time, I started doing tons of research on HOW to rebuild a marriage after infidelity. I read everything I could find...I insisted that the two of us start MC and IC both.

 

MC was mostly a bust during those first several weeks, since she was still mourning the loss of the affair. But it DID give me more information on what steps needed to happen for us to recover.

 

The bottom line was that this all caused me to build a PLAN...and let me figure out how to execute that plan to recover my marriage. I could see what I needed to do, and what the possible outcomes would be.

 

THIS IS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE.

 

You need to get to that point. You need to have a PLAN, that you understand and can work...or else you're just wasting your time.

[five&dime]

Owl - your forceful words are not falling on deaf ears. Our financial situation is tight. She leaves her job without another, forclosure is but months away. We've been decimated in the last year financially because of the economy. It's easy to say "well, decide between bankruptcy or your marriage." It's not so easy to actually force that reality. Believe me, if I thought we could merrily float by for six months to a year with her unemployed, it would be a different story.

 

But I hear you, Owl. Believe me. I do believe I can be much more forceful without necessarily resorting to armageddon.

[Owl]

Then do so, my friend. Or don't...it's up to you. It's not my marriage...my life.

 

I'm just offering you the best advice I know, based off the similarities between our situations.

[taylor]

Do something special for your kids or give them something special.

 

For your wife, do nothing. Don't even bring it up. Act like it is any other day of the year.

 

If she asks you, say, "Valentine's Day has lost its meaning for me."

 

See if she does anything for you for Valentine's Day.

 

Remember, she is the one who has to convince you she still loves you. She's the one who has to redeem herself. She is the one who has to recommit.

 

Until she does, you do nothing.

 

She needs to feel the repercussions of her behavior.

[Dexter Morgan]

Well, the continuing cavorting is another topic.

 

He asked for advice about Valentine's.

 

And I gave it to him. Get his kids things for V-day. His wife doesn't deserve anything until she stops her contact with the other man. And even then, its a judgement call.

[Dexter Morgan]

Do something special for your kids or give them something special.

 

For your wife, do nothing. Don't even bring it up. Act like it is any other day of the year.

 

If she asks you, say, "Valentine's Day has lost its meaning for me."

 

See if she does anything for you for Valentine's Day.

 

Remember, she is the one who has to convince you she still loves you.

 

Eggs-fuggin-zactly!!!!!!

[Owl]

 

Remember, she is the one who has to convince you she still loves you. She's the one who has to redeem herself. She is the one who has to recommit.

 

 

 

I agree completely with this, but there's still a fly in the ointment.

 

You see...she's in an emotional affair (whether she admits that or not)...and therefore, she's probably not even convinced herself that she still loves F&D.

 

That's why she needs the bomb drop wake up call...she needs to see that she's going to LOSE him if she doesn't change...before she'll ever step up to be the one to convince him.

 

What is the battle cry of the wayward spouse?

 

"I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you."

 

F&D is about two seconds away from hearing this exact phrase from his wife...it'll happen any day now.

 

And unless he takes some kind of really strong stance to knock her out of her fog...she's not ever even going to realize that she's destroying their marriage...or she won't CARE that she is.

[taylor]

I agree completely with this, but there's still a fly in the ointment.

 

You see...she's in an emotional affair (whether she admits that or not)...and therefore, she's probably not even convinced herself that she still loves F&D.

 

At this point, she probably cannot give or receive love from her husband. She is still too emotionally attached to the OM.

 

So, Five&Dime, don't expect much from her regarding valentine's day.

 

But neither should you shower her with love and romance. It will fall on a closed up heart and leave you frustrated.

 

Besides, like OWL and others have said, your wife doesn't need flowers and candy. She needs a wake-up call...if you want her to return to you emotionally.

 

Loving her MORE is not going to do it. Trust me on this. It doesn't work.

 

You need to love her LESS. She needs to feel what it feels like to not have you in her life. She needs to develop some FEAR that you won't be there for her.

 

It's this FEAR that will wake her up..the thought of losing you!

 

Distance yourself from her until she DECIDES she wants you and only you and until she DECIDES to recommit to the marriage.

 

Send her this Valentines message: I love you but I will not share you with another man. As long as I am sharing you, I will not love you.

 

 

 

she needs the bomb drop wake up call...she needs to see that she's going to LOSE him if she doesn't change...before she'll ever step up to be the one to convince him.

 

YES! And a dozen red roses is NOT the bomb that needs dropped.

 

"I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you."

 

Interpretation by a WS:

 

I love you as a person.

I love you as the father of my children.

I am grateful for all that you have done for me.

 

But,

 

I don't have any desire for you, romantically, sexually.

I do not long for you.

I don't miss you or think about you all day.

I don't have desire to make you happy.

 

Distance will create desire..and turn this around.

[whichwayisup]

Do something special for your kids or give them something special.

 

I agree. Go out for a family brunch and make it about the kids. Not her.

 

If she asks you, say, "Valentine's Day has lost its meaning for me."

 

Exactly. If she brings it up (and I BET she IS expecting something from you) then just tell her under the circumstances, you're not in the mood to celebrate Valentine's Day. Then change the subject to the kids.

[voldigicam]

An alternative is to simply move into an open marriage situation. I don't understand how this works, but maybe it does for some people. I've known quite polyamorous folks who make this work. From the outside looking in, I don't know. A couple lives together, but has free time for FWB outside. Even talk about it moderately openly. I have an exceptionally difficult time imagining this, but maybe it takes off the stress. "Hey honey, my friend Dawn showed me this cool thing, do you think you could try it? Hey, is that a new lube on the nightstand?" See, that's a bit odd.

 

I have to say that my SO becomes obsessed with people and things that aren't me. That hasn't included other men, but perhaps the near emotional equivalent. I've certainly been shut out for long periods. I've been patient and loving and she's always come around. Currently she's in a come around period emerging from depression. She may recover from her depressive periods faster than I do! This feels sort of like infidelity. Which I'm familiar with.

 

The grabbing back, the chasing, the chastizing, the disapproval, the ultimatuums. They don't seem to work particularly well. Even if the activity stops, the urge or whatever doesn't. That's the problem. I suspect one either needs to deal openly with depowering the urge or accept the actions in a loving manner.

 

I could actually see sharing my wife with someone if she was intent on doing that. Certainly, a strong disapproval/conflict mode would likely drive her away. She doesn't like being told what to do and how to do it. If her usual pattern holds, she'd eventually come home. I'm not sure how I really would feel about such a thing, but I suspect I could live with and deal with it. If she were going out and hitting strip clubs with the girls, well, I could handle that. Hiring male escorts to ring her chimes would bother me more. An affair? Thinking about it, I suspect I could tolerate it OK for a couple of years. Five years, I'd be getting tired of it. So long as I was still connected and getting the feedback I need.

 

There's apparently a mutuality aspect as well. Where both partners have FWB things going on and accept the situation. I suppose that could work, although I have a difficult enough time figuring out 20% of one relationship at a time!

 

So there are some odd options. And I don't see the power play ultimatuums doing much good. Either do it (divorce) or not (accept and be loving). But staying in place and disapproving doesn't seem to accomplish much. I've been on both sides of that equation.