Who's right, the man or the woman?

[Touche]

Uhm, no. I don't coddle and I never said she was in a relationship. What's "borderline" about what I said?

 

Here's what I actually said:

 

I never said what LL has is a 'real' relationship. Never. You're twisting what I said. It's still a FWB scenario. The end of this evening will tell the tale. The beginning was a shift.

 

I already said that if she sleeps with him tonight then it's still a FWB kind of thing.

 

If she doesn't, and she lets him just drop her off then they might have a chance to turn this into a 'real' relationship.

 

Please note that I said they MIGHT have a chance..never said that it's already a relationship. But I AM saying that it COULD be.

 

Oh and I seriously doubt that I have that much power that I'm setting LL up for disappointment. She sounds like a big girl to me.

 

I hope it works out for her. I just don't feel it's useful to shoot this all down before even seeing if it's viable.

 

A turtle doesn't get anywhere unless it sticks its neck out you know.

[LoveLace]

Seriously SG, settle down with the judgements. I'm far from thinking I'm in a "relationship" now. If you've read other posts I conveyed that I'm not sure of my feelings for him past FWB. I am also not ready to have that talk with him because I like where it is right now, which is letting nature take its course. I know you've seen me hurt in the past but it's as though you assume that's all my life is about. I've been known to be the one doing the hurting, more times than I care to say, but not anytime recently thank god.

 

Where I stand right now is a satisfactory feeling of being FWB with a guy that I"m spending more time with and getting to know better right now. Last night in conversation I was reminded of some things we have in common that I forgot about. That was cool. Anyway, I'm going out with a huge group of friends tonight and it's good to know that if I were to meet someone new while there, that I can still say I'm single and flirt if I want to. Or even exchange #'s if I want to. Of course if I were to start dating someone, I'd be courteous enough to communicate that with him before it became a serious or sexual situation. In other words I'm happy with things right now, so I'd think that's what matters. I'm assuming he's happy too, because his last relationship ended messy over the summer and I'm also assuming he doesn't want to rush into serious because of that. However if we continue to spend time and feelings go deeper, the status may or may not change. It's not some kind of blow to tell me that it's still FWB, I know you want it to be like that, but it's not.

 

At the same time, for us to plan going out days ahead of time, for him to pick me up and take me out for just a couple hours with a nice goodnight kiss at the end, is a change, for US,because in past years of being "FWB" (before he got into a relationship) it never crossed the minds of either of us to do that.

 

Touche he said we'd talk today but I actually think it's unlikely because by the time he's off work I'll be on my way to meet up with friends, which he knows about. I invited him but he declined because again he has an early meeting tomorrow. And I was actually just inviting to be nice, because in reality I wanted to be solo tonight. But I'm not even worried about it, I now we'll talk soon enough.

[Star Gazer]

Seriously SG, settle down with the judgements.

 

I'm settled, what makes you think otherwise? I'm not the one drafting multiple paragraphs in defense of myself.

[Star Gazer]

I LOVE your avie, BTW.

 

Thanks - wish I could say I took the picture!

 

Oh, no. She shouldn't be led to believe she's now in some fairytale. Not by any means, but a little encouragement while reminding her to keep her feet on the ground is alright.

 

Fair enough. I felt LL was acting like a helium balloon...was just trying to keep her from floating away, not to pop her.

[Star Gazer]

In all fairness, if I were LL, I'd be feeling pretty defensive after some of the posts I've read here.

 

Would you? In my experience, people (and I include myself in this) only get defensive about things that they aren't certain about. Those who are certain just shrug it off.

[chris250]

The woman is always right just as much as the customer is always right no matter how much you think she's wrong. Treat a lady like you would treat a customer.

 

Having this attitude will make you more successful in both dating and the business world.

[LoveLace]

SG it's just that I don't know what you think your keeping me from "floating away from"....I originally posted to ask about ideas for what to do with him last night, because he initially wanted me to tell him what that might be. But I also mentioned we are just FWB right now so that there was background on the situation. But from out of nowhere you made it ALL about me thinking he wants more or I want more and it's not even an issue (at least not for me it isn't - like it is for you) My feelings for him, AGAIN, are very limited to FWB but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy more of his company, and I'm not obligated to commit here, I"m only obligated to enjoy myself, which I have, so if you ask me, I couldn't possibly have it better....if he was smothering me I'd hate it. Something else would make you say it's going too fast, on the other hand he could be on 1 knee serenading me and you'd still find a reason to say he isn't "into me", you also pick out things that are no longer relevant according to the most recent status and analyze them to death as well, you use the same arguments over and over again as if it applies to every situation across the board and it really gets old. YOU don't know how he feels and neither do I, and I've explained to you over and over that my feelings for him quite minimal at this time and that's perfectly acceptable, yet you can't leave it alone and try to make me look like I'm a huge f*ck up for everything I say. You are very pesimistic and non-encouraging.

 

I am quite "certain" of all of the above so from now on yes I will be "shrugging you off". Of course now you'll come back with some intelligent sounding-kind of know-it-all response, go back and find anything you possibly can that could qualify as calling me a "hipocrit", and again, analyze my situation to death in the most negative way you can think of....thinking that you are doing me some kind of favor but generally it really just looks like you want it to rain on me and that's your only purpose. Not even everything you argue is sensible, you try to MAKE it sensible because the only purpose is to find EVERYTHING wrong with what I say. And if you'll notice, you are the only one on this thread with the attitude you have about me and this guy. You should try to find a thread where your "this-is-reality" negative crap actually applies.:D

[Star Gazer]

Look, first - I'd like you to go back and read ALL your threads and count how many times I've HELPED you. You act as though I'm here to poo-poo on your parade, when I not. And the fact is, you'd have to have a parade for me to crap on to begin with. If you want a parade, you have to assemble the band, the floats, the processional. You have none of that. You always get TEN STEPS ahead of yourself and the guy in question. You're probably picking out china patterns in your head before you can even confirm his interest - a lot like the band guy who everyone knew wasn't interested.

 

But I also mentioned we are just FWB right now so that there was background on the situation. But from out of nowhere you made it ALL about me thinking he wants more or I want more and it's not even an issue

 

Yup, gonna have to call you on your B.S. here, LL. There's no "analysis" necessary either.

 

You want more. That’s obvious. Why? Well, for one – you are “looking for a boyfriend,” and are contemplating him as boyfriend material. You said so yourself. You called this hang out a “date” at least three times in this thread alone. A FWB who isn't hoping/looking for more wouldn't say those things. You also cared enough about what to plan for your little hang out that you felt compelled to ask friends and strangers. A FWB could care less. Like this guy did. In addition, you’re overly concerned about how he’s perceiving you (i.e., you don’t want to be too high-maintenance or too casual, but juuusssst right), and you even primped for him when he just came over to sit on your couch and watch TV.

 

You want more. I'm not sure why you cannot admit that. What's wrong with admitting you're interested in something more substantial?

 

I'm not obligated to commit here, I"m only obligated to enjoy myself, which I have, so if you ask me, I couldn't possibly have it better....if he was smothering me I'd hate it. Something else would make you say it's going too fast, on the other hand he could be on 1 knee serenading me and you'd still find a reason to say he isn't "into me", you also pick out things that are no longer relevant according to the most recent status and analyze them to death as well, you use the same arguments over and over again as if it applies to every situation across the board and it really gets old.

 

I honestly don't even know where any of this comes from. I've always rooted for you, LL - TO FIND SOMEONE WORTHY OF YOU, someone who's as into you as you are them, and to settle for nothing less. I'm sorry you can't see that.

 

try to make me look like I'm a huge f*ck up for everything I say. You are very pesimistic and non-encouraging.

 

WHO exactly am I trying to make you look like anything to? I think you're projecting, LL. No, in fact - I know it.

 

I am quite "certain" of all of the above so from now on yes I will be "shrugging you off".

 

Good! Again, I hope I'm wrong and your "certainty" of this FWB relationship turning into a BF-GF thing turns out how you're hoping it will.

 

Of course now you'll come back with some intelligent sounding-kind of know-it-all response, go back and find anything you possibly can that could qualify as calling me a "hipocrit", and again, analyze my situation to death in the most negative way you can think of....thinking that you are doing me some kind of favor but generally it really just looks like you want it to rain on me and that's your only purpose. Not even everything you argue is sensible, you try to MAKE it sensible because the only purpose is to find EVERYTHING wrong with what I say. And if you'll notice, you are the only one on this thread with the attitude you have about me and this guy. You should try to find a thread where your "this-is-reality" negative crap actually applies.:D

 

If that's what you think about me, then just put me on ignore.

 

Last time I checked, you haven't had much success in relationships. Perhaps now is the time to CHANGE your method of meeting and interacting with men. Step one: Save the sex for someone who wants to commit to you. Step two: Don't pine over someone who's not interested in a relationship with you. Step three: Stop making excuses for crappy behavior.

 

Again, I hope I'm wrong, LL. But I've been there, and done all that. Plenty of times. NOW I know better. You don't, and I'm not sure how many more of these dud guys who don't deserve you that you'll have to go through before you wake up and realize what you really deserve and settle for nothing less. Once you find yourself in a happy, healthy, committed relationship with someone who would NEVER relegate you to FWB status EVER, then come back to me and talk to me about "reality."

 

Until then, go back and look at all the times I've helped you. I'm sure you'll be happy to know that advice from the past will be the last advice I'll ever give you directly.

 

Take care. Good luck.

[Star Gazer]

BTW, one final word (I really do mean it! ): Have you seen HJNTIY? If you haven't, I recommend you do. You remind me SO much of Ginnifer Goodwyn's character (GiGi), and I'm not the only one here who's said as much. That's how you're perceived, LL. You could stand someone telling you like it is, FOR ONCE. I may not be Justin Long's character, but his message has been the same message I've been trying to convey to you for...eons.

[Trialbyfire]

If you want more from a guy, you have to believe that you're worth more. This means you don't settle for tenth measures from a guy. If he's not giving you what you need, walk this way...

[Star Gazer]

If you want more from a guy, you have to believe that you're worth more. This means you don't settle for tenth measures from a guy. If he's not giving you what you need, walk this way...

 

Precisely. You literally need to talk to talk, and walk the walk. Believe it, and act like it.

[LoveLace]

Picking out china? Are you serious? OMG, that scares the f*ck outta me. The farthest into the future I can stress myself out about is next week. Where in the h*ll do you get the idea that I want to marry the guy? OMG, I'm still trying to decide if I could even fall in love with him, much less marry him....holy sh*t, I believe it's YOU that 's way ahead of me here!!! Seriously!!

[LoveLace]

So I just got off the phone with him, he called to see if I had fun last night, which I did, and he wants to do something tonight...valentines day wasn't mentioned by either of us in the conv. I've never been a person to get too much into the holiday so that's fine with me. So this will make the 3rd time seeing each other just this week. (We were with mutual friends the 1st time) This is just a totally different kind of FWB vs. the FWB we were before we lost touch for a while. Back then, we rarely called each other, we'd see each other out, buddy up for the night, then talk again maybe weeks or even months later. And I never thought much of it, never desired to spend more time with him and get to know him better. I always liked the guy as a person, I just never saw us as being more than what it was.

 

So yes it's still FWB, however it is definitely more than what it was before, in the sense we are steadily in touch and obviously hanging out much more regularly than back then. I find him a little more attractive than I used to. I never took notice to just how nice of a guy he is, until a couple weeks ago when there was too much snow on the ground, he came over one day, drove me to make an errand and also cleaned off my car for me because when I started to do it he said "let me help you because it's really cold"...so this time is different in the sense that I just like him more as a person than I ever did before. This time I noticed how much I love to kiss him, but back then, it was just kissing. This time I actually feel sparks, and back then I didn't so much. I think the whole thing is in a pretty good place right now. And I DO question if he is a potential BF or not, but if I think of us as a "couple" that would go to family functions together or show up as a couple with our friends, that part I can't seem to make "fit" right in my mind, for some reason. We were with mutual friends the other night and we talked, but for some reason I wasn't comfortable kissing him or making it a public thing in front of everyone. I don't know why. But when alone, I want to be all over it.

 

So I don't see how I can be accused of hoping that it leads to a relationship or whatever, because even though I like him, I still wonder about weather or not we'd "match" as an actual couple....so to be where we are could either be good or bad I guess, in the sense that we have no official "label" is good because there is no committing or pressure; but it could also be bad in the way that if I never reach that "couple" feeling level, I don't know if that would effect the friendship or not. Well, I guess obviously it might, but might not. If he feels the same way, that would probably be a good thing as clearly it would make us on the same page. I don't want to worry about "where is this going?" right now, because I'm most comfortable with where it is at this moment. I also like the fact that I haven't had a single distressed thought about what he's doing when I'm not with him, if he's with women or anything, but you'd think I'd wonder constantly if I was THAT into him?...I don't know. So considering my slight confusion of how I really feel for him, FWB is completely appropriate and satisfactory for me. To say "settling for scraps" is totally making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Besides, he is not "scraps" anyway, any girl would be lucky to have him, even if I find myself not really wanting to be one of those girls in the end. But since there's no telling which direction feelings can end up going in, there's no sense in jumping ship on him yet. I feel like I'm in a position to take my time in deciding what I do or don't want, in the mean time enjoying the company and still having the freedom I have as a single gal. I just couldn't ask for better than that right now.

[Kamille]

Is this the FWB you had last year? Bruce or Dave or something?

 

Lovelace... You always make it sound like you're the most easygoing girl on the planet; like you wouldn't dream of putting pressure on a guy. And then, because your easy-going attitude actually counters your desire for love, you end up wasting time in poorly defined relationships.

 

The thing is: there's nothing wrong with being upfront about wanting a relationship. If that's what you want, then it's what you want, and you shouldn't waste time with FWB arrangements.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this means you should want a relationship with this guy in perticular. I'm just saying, you shouldn't feel afraid to tell men that yes, you are in the market for something long term, be it with them or somebody else. Those who aren't up to the challenge will bail, and those who aren't afraid of commitments will continue dating you.

 

Again, being honest about looking for a relationship doesn't mean you skip dating all together. It doesn't mean one would settle for any guy, and lose agency in chosing. It means she is discerning as to who she will date, and she'll only let men worthy of her into her life. And the amazing thing? Men eat that **** up LL. They want to have a relationship with a woman who won't settle for less then what she knows she deserves. There are ways to let men know that you mean business when it comes to love: the best one, often, is NOT sleeping with a guy until he himself prompts relationship talks.

[LoveLace]

Is this the FWB you had last year? Bruce or Dave or something?

 

Lovelace... You always make it sound like you're the most easygoing girl on the planet; like you wouldn't dream of putting pressure on a guy. And then, because your easy-going attitude actually counters your desire for love, you end up wasting time in poorly defined relationships.

 

The thing is: there's nothing wrong with being upfront about wanting a relationship. If that's what you want, then it's what you want, and you shouldn't waste time with FWB arrangements.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this means you should want a relationship with this guy in perticular. I'm just saying, you shouldn't feel afraid to tell men that yes, you are in the market for something long term, be it with them or somebody else. Those who aren't up to the challenge will bail, and those who aren't afraid of commitments will continue dating you.

 

Again, being honest about looking for a relationship doesn't mean you skip dating all together. It doesn't mean one would settle for any guy, and lose agency in chosing. It means she is discerning as to who she will date, and she'll only let men worthy of her into her life. And the amazing thing? Men eat that **** up LL. They want to have a relationship with a woman who won't settle for less then what she knows she deserves. There are ways to let men know that you mean business when it comes to love: the best one, often, is NOT sleeping with a guy until he himself prompts relationship talks.

 

 

No this isn't a guy from last year....before now, the last time me and this guy hung out was probably 2 or more years ago. You might be thinking of Dan...oh I was head over heels for that guy! Of course a relationship might be cool, but that's not something I want to tell him, not to spare pressuring him, but because I don't feel that strongly towards him, although I do like him more than I used to. If I start to feel more strongly, well I guess I'll tell him if it even gets that far. And I can't say it qualifies as wasting time unless there are other guys in my life, which there is not right now, but if one comes along you'd better believe I'll give them a chance. I was out last night with friends, but i didn't meet anyone special...so I still make plenty of time for fun and opportunities to meet others....weather or not they are successful opportunities, is a different story. If I'm hanging out with someone and liking it, I don't consider it a waste of time. I think that's a discouraging way to look at any type of relationship because if I thought of every guy I've hung out with as a waste of time because it didn't work out, that would just be frustrating way to look at it if you ask me. I prefer to look back on things as "well it didn't work out, but it was fun."

 

I do know he's a good boyfriend in general, because he and I were friends during his last relationship, which he tried like hell to save when it got rocky, but she was pretty much just a whiny drama-queen so he split when he realized he couldn't fix her. He's one of the hardest working guys I know, he's pretty responsible but likes to enjoy his leisure time too. My only hang up is that he's not as high-spirited or as energetic as what I've always got along best with in the past. I'm learning that he's more introverted than I ever knew...he's not a very big fan or crowds or loudness...which is understandable...but I'm a person who likes big events with lotsa people, so I probably couldn't count on him as a partner concert-goer....so that's the thing right now is that I'm sord of "screening" him and learning about him in ways that would fit with what I want in a BF....he's an all around good catch-type, but if it comes to a "partner", he might not fit with me in that way...when everything is fine except for 1 thing, the question is weather or not the 1 thing is enough to decide he isn't the guy for you, or if the good things compensate enough for you. So you go okay, he wouldn't attend some things with me because it's not his cup of tea, but I could still do those things with friends and he's really good to me and we love being together, so is the 1 thing something you could still make work? Who knows. Being where we are, it's not a very stressful issue to me, but it could be one day.

 

Since I've known guys in the past with at least 5 things I could instantly pick out is wrong with them, and so far with this guy it's probably just the 1 thing that might keep my interest from growing. On the other hand I could be totally wrong and the 1 thing becomes no big deal. Since there's no way of predicting the future, might as well let it be what it is and I'm still single in the mean time. So I don't feel I'm giving up anything by hanging out with him. And you know what, we hold hands and kiss a lot, but he has not tried to sleep with me yet. It's pretty passionate if we make out and it definitely gets hot and heavy, but so far we've been pretty good about knowing when to stop....maybe what I like about the situation is that HE"S the one who doesn't make ME feel pressured in any way...

[LoveLace]

I've been exhausted because of a late night last night, and decided I should get some studying done instead of going out...I kept thinking of all the school stuff I need to do, so since it was weighing on my mind I thought it might make it hard to have fun tonight...I called to discuss it with him, then he said that he was glad, because he was about to call and tell me he got called into work (he manages a restaurant and even though off today, he suspected they might end up needing help)..he expressed being relieved because he thought I'd be mad since it's valentines day...and I've never even mentioned doing anything with him for v. day....so that indicates he wanted to spend this over-rated holiday with me...I don't know what that implies about his feelings for me, if at all, however I was surprised by it....we're going to talk about hanging tomorrow now...

[LoveLace]

Well this guy and I still talk regularly but we haven't hung out in a week because I've had exams and school obligations like crazy, on top of work; he works 6-7 days a week, mostly nights, and his spare time isn't convenient with my spare time and vice-versa; this is a frequent problem that i run into with just my schedule alone. I find myself turning down a lot of invites because I need to study or because I have morning rounds at the hospital at 7am and there's too much to do....anyway, on the phone the other night, I said, "this feels more like dating", and he said, "Yea I know"....but then I told him we should continue to just be friends because I don't know that we are a match like that...the conversation ended with what appeared to be much relief between us; he said that he worried a little because he works so much, which he's trying to change but hasn't been able to so far.

 

Deep down I liked him but I also felt less and less interested every time I tried to think of us as a couple, because the picture just didn't seem to fit..course i didn't tell him that. So we've even still talked some since then, and it's much better now because there is no pressure between us what so ever. And who knows if things change, but I dont' think I want it to right now. I'm just glad there is no hard feelings between us. It's like we tried it, but it didn't work, so we're back to being friends (without benefits) and that's totally ok.