Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 A last minute, "swing by" to "go get some drinks" is the quintessential pre-f**k "date" for those engaged in a FWB relationship. A "proper date" is not what LL is doing right now. Honestly, Touche. You may know what it takes to have a successful REAL relationship, but you don't know how FWBs operate. Trust me, I do.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Nope. It's almost as if you missed a post, SG. Go back and read the sequence of how it went. He totally backpedaled once she saw that LL was cancelling! Don't you see the shift in dynamic here? No, I think YOU missed the post, where LL said this: LOL okay so after that text he calls me and says, "so are you tired and want to do another night?"...I said I'm a little tired but it's not bothering me, YOU were the one who said your tired and have to get up early.... She was NOT cancelling. Rather, she was making it unequivocally clear that she STILL wanted to hang out, despite the fact that he had told her he was tired and needed to get up early. In doing so, she told him she was willing to settle for tired scraps. He came back to pick her up for drinks because her response made it easy for him to ... "get some." He knew he wouldn't have to put in much effort to please her. He can be tired, leave/get up early, only buy her some drinks, and BAM! Call it a night. Is that your idea of a "proper date"? Really?? *shrug* I wouldn't accept that... anymore.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 A last minute, "swing by" to "go get some drinks" is the quintessential pre-f**k "date" for those engaged in a FWB relationship. A "proper date" is not what LL is doing right now. Honestly, Touche. You may know what it takes to have a successful REAL relationship, but you don't know how FWBs operate. Trust me, I do. You might know more about FWB's I won't argue with you about that. But it wasn't a last minute "swing by" as you say. LL said it was set up ahead of time..unless I misread that. I think she even said it was the first time it was done that way. So this was more like a "real"date and not a hook-up. In keeping with that tone, LL handled it very well in the end..and he responded in the appropriate manner and vein.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 No, I think YOU missed the post, where LL said this: She was NOT cancelling. Rather, she was making it unequivocally clear that she STILL wanted to hang out, despite the fact that he had told her he was tired and needed to get up early. In doing so, she told him she was willing to settle for tired scraps. He came back to pick her up for drinks because her response made it easy for him to ... "get some." He knew he wouldn't have to put in much effort to please her. He can be tired, leave/get up early, only buy her some drinks, and BAM! Call it a night. Is that your idea of a "proper date"? Really?? *shrug* I wouldn't accept that... anymore. But she let him know that she'd just as easily NOT go out with him that to go out. Like it didn't really matter. She showed a little disinterest. And he immediately responded. As for the rest, I don't see it that way. It's up to LL to steer the direction of how this will go now. You say he doesn't have to put in much effort to please her. I don't agree. He's ALREADY had to put in some "effort" to please her. It's the only way she'd go out with him. She was willing to cancel and he knew it and got "scared." As for the rest of the evening it's up to LL again if she's going to settle for disrespect or let him step up to the plate and make an "effort." It's completely up to her what she accepts. He can try to dish out whatever he wants. He's not calling the shots here. She is. Something tells me she "gets that" now.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 He's not calling the shots here. She is. I don't think she's "calling the shots." But I guess we won't know until this plays out.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think she's "calling the shots." But I guess we won't know until this plays out. I think for now she IS. She's setting a new tone. And they might have a shot at it if he's also interested in making this more than a FWB thing. After that, they can be on an even keel (where no one person is always calling the shots.) That's the way it works.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Just wanted to add this: If LL is really smart (and a goddess) she'll let him drop her off at her door. No sex tonight. I mean he does have to get up early tomorrow after all, right? If she sleeps with him then they're back to square one.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 They've already slept together. To make him 'wait' now would come across as game playing. The time to set boundaries is not long after they've already been crossed.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 They've already slept together. To make him 'wait' now would come across as game playing. The time to set boundaries is not long after they've already been crossed. I knew you were going to say that! No. The time to set boundaries is when the dynamics have changed...and they have. Different dynamic - new boundaries and expectations. The FWB "boundaries" were changed by him asking her out and her accepting - but not as a fruck buddy. He made a DATE with her this time...different ball game. And she only accepted as if it were a DATE and not another "hookup." No boundaries were crossed before this. They BOTH agreed to the FWB thing. Now it seems the game is being changed a little. Granted this is not the ideal way to start a relationship. That's why I don't really believe in FWB's. They don't usually end up well. But if BOTH parties want to change the rules, then it can work. And in this case it just might.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Also, if this is true: Honestly, Touche. You may know what it takes to have a successful REAL relationship, but you don't know how FWBs operate. Then I think LL is better served listening to the person who knows more about what she's seeking. If she's seeking a FWB relationship then she should pay more attention to your advice. But if LL is looking for something along the lines of a "REAL" relationship, as you put it, then she might want to listen to my advice. In any case, LL can decide what's best for her and we'll be here to support her.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Good lord, you will say anything to be right. Listen, you claim to know how to IDENTIFY a real relationship. But I DO know how to IDENTIFY a FWB scenario. If you think what LL has with this guy is a 'real' relationship, then all I can do is laugh. Honestly.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Good lord, you will say anything to be right. Listen, you claim to know how to IDENTIFY a real relationship. But I DO know how to IDENTIFY a FWB scenario. If you think what LL has with this guy is a 'real' relationship, then all I can do is laugh. Honestly. Of course I won't say "anything" to be right. When I'm right I'm right. I never said what LL has is a 'real' relationship. Never. You're twisting what I said. It's still a FWB scenario. The end of this evening will tell the tale. The beginning was a shift. I already said that if she sleeps with him tonight then it's still a FWB kind of thing. If she doesn't, and she lets him just drop her off then they might have a chance to turn this into a 'real' relationship. I honestly don't know how I can be any more clear. Do you see what I'm saying now?
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 I must say I don't blame you for sounding peeved about this. And what a non-"gentlemanly" remark about having to get up early. It's rude and presumptous..as if you would be keeping him up or something. I would have said this: "You know what? I really don't want to keep you up at all. Have a good night." And then I'd hang up the phone and forget about him. That said though, I wonder if you sent him signals that tell him he can be rude to you and it's ok. I suspect you did just by agreeing to be his FWB. No way can you go from FWB to bf/gf. You're either one or the other. "Never the 'twain shall meet" as they say. Either keep it FWB or leave him. If you're looking for a b/f he's not it. He'll always disappoint you because he has no respect for you. And without respect there's no relationship. Did you forget that you posted this??? Are you disagreeing with me....just because??? He said what he said, and they did explicitly agree to be FWB. You really think that the entire dynamic changed simply because he's picking her up? She didn't say what you suggested to set her boundaries - not even close (and I fail to see how hanging up on him would be any classier than telling him she didn't want a half-assed date, as I suggested). Rather, as usual, she took less than she deserves and allowed him to half-ass this 'hang out.' They're still EXPLICIT FWB. How was it that you were able to say that they CANNOT go from FWB to BF-GF before, but now believe they can? When guys set THAT 'rule' (no strings) they really do mean it.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Did you forget that you posted this??? Are you disagreeing with me....just because??? Uhm, hello? Did you not read the rest? She stepped up. She let it be known that she was ready to cancel tonight's date. Yes, I would have cancelled for all time. I would have been way more forceful about it. But he did back down when LL was cancelling for tonight. In that case, I might have also given him another chance. What would I have had to lose? He said what he said, and they did explicitly agree to be FWB. You really think that the entire dynamic changed simply because he's picking her up? She didn't say what you suggested to set her boundaries - not even close (and I fail to see how hanging up on him would be any classier than telling him she didn't want a half-assed date, as I suggested). Rather, as usual, she took less than she deserves and allowed him to half-ass this 'hang out.' They're still EXPLICIT FWB. How was it that you were able to say that they CANNOT go from FWB to BF-GF before, but now believe they can? When guys set THAT 'rule' (no strings) they really do mean it. No they're not explicit FWB...that very much remains to be seen. Yes, I changed what I said and I explained why above. Remember? I called LL a "pioneer" because she changed the dynamics! As for him setting "THAT" rule about no strings and meaning it. Nope. This guy doesn't really mean it. If he really did, he would have not pursued tonight's date. He wouldn't have picked LL up and he wouldn't have even MADE a date in the first place. After all, he never did before. Do you not see that the whole thing has shifted on both sides? Only they're both afraid to let the other one know that they WANT it to change. They're both gun-shy. Edited to add..no I never said to hang up on him. I just said I'd then hang up. There's a difference.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Well Touche, LL usually immediately posts updates. Seeing as LL didn't come back last night to report that he'd dropped her off, my guess is that they spent the night together.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Well Touche, LL usually immediately posts updates. Seeing as LL didn't come back last night to report that he'd dropped her off, my guess is that they spent the night together. If that's so then I'll eat crow and retract her "pioneer" title. That would just confirm that once you're a FWB, you can't really cross over into g/f-b/f territory as I first stated. I guess we'll just have to see.
Author LoveLace Posted February 13, 2009 Author Posted February 13, 2009 Oh SG it's you again ; look, when he told me that he was tired, he immediately followed it with, "So you do wanna go get a couple drinks?"...when on the phone....so at that time, I didn't have time to say, "are you too tired to do anything?" because he instantly asked me out after saying he was tired. So don't even sit there and act like I pressured him into it. It was a little later after that, when he reminded me about getting up early and said to meet him. THEN I acknowledged his being tired and gave him total opportunity to stay home instead....that was a text, which he immediately returned with a phone call, asked if I WAS TIRED so I answered honestly in saying that I was a little but I didn't have to get up very early the next day so it was no big deal to me....and followed it up with reminding HIM that HE was the one talking about being tired, not me, therefore if he didn't want to go out, it was his opportunity to say so.Obviusly if he's asking me out one mintute and saying he's tired the next, then I'm going to be a bit confused and also courteous enough ackowledge what he does or doesn't want. This isn't just some guy, it's a guy that's been a good friend to me for a few years, so just because we might be dating now doesn't mean i"m going to treat him like a b*tch and ignore things he tells me, or play games. I was impressed that he stepped up like he did, without me even having to say that I'd rather him pick me up, he figured that out pretty quick on his own, more than I can say about a lot of other dumbsh*ts I've dated or known. He looked good when he picked me up, dressed well and shaved (which I definitely noticed as compared to how he's looked lately...a little sloppy and lazy)...we went to the nearby pub and he bought us a few beers and we chatted, etc, but he did start yawning and finally confessed he had to get up at 6:30am, which I didn't know before...I knew he had to get up, I just didn't realize it was that early and it was already 10pm before he even told me that. He dropped me off and we had an awesome good night kiss, and he said we'll talk tomorrow. So far as I'm concerned, it was short and sweet and I have no complaints. I've reminded myself that he works 6-7 days week and his job carries a lot of responsibility; so if I'm going to date him I should be prepared to hear that he has to get up early fairly often. I get up at 4:30am for my job, so I understand the need for sleep... Yes I would have been disappointed, and maybe felt rejected, had he cancelled due to being tired, however he switched it up and still insisted on taking me out for even just a few beers. So at this point, everything's cool.
Author LoveLace Posted February 13, 2009 Author Posted February 13, 2009 Well Touche, LL usually immediately posts updates. Seeing as LL didn't come back last night to report that he'd dropped her off, my guess is that they spent the night together. Ah yes wrong again. He dropped me off but I went right to bed, the last thing I felt like doing was looking at the bright monitor with my tired eyes.
Touche Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Sounds like you had a really nice time! YAY! And I'm glad you didn't sleep with him last night. (I hate having to eat crow. ) Did he set anything up to see you again? What about Valentine's Day?
mr. Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 anything will be good really. but why not buy some wine and go for a walk, stop in a park or near some water and have wine and talk. some of my best nights have been spent like that. edit: should have got to the end of this thread before i decided to post. sorry.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 *shrug* I still stand firm. You made an explicit agreement to be FWB. This really changes none of that. Please don't get your hopes up thinking you're now "dating" him, or that you will be. I went to NBA games with my FWB. Skiing. Movies. And yes, sometimes without sex involved. But FWB was all it ever was, because that's what we agreed to. I actually have done that with two different guys. Each time I wound up hurt. The same holds true for each and every friend of mine who's been involved in the same way. What appears to be a "date" isn't really a date when it's done with your explicit FWB. It's called passing-time-with-someone-you-also-sleep-with. If you try to change the rules now, he'll bolt. I can almost guarantee it. That said, unlike Touche, I actually LIKE to eat crow, at least when someone ends up happy. So I do hope that I'm wrong. I just really don't think I am.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 So don't even sit there and act like I pressured him into it.[ Where did you get that idea? I didn't "sit there and act like" you pressured him - at all. TO THE CONTRARY, I specifically said you accepted scraps by NOT asserting yourself. You clearly don't know how to translate what people tell you or the signs they send. I think that's part of your problem when it comes to dating. This isn't just some guy, it's a guy that's been a good friend to me for a few years, so just because we might be dating now... You're NOT dating, LL. You expressly agreed to be FWB. Expressly. I was impressed that he stepped up like he did... There was no "stepping up" here, as far as I can tell. but he did start yawning and finally confessed he had to get up at 6:30am, which I didn't know before...I knew he had to get up, I just didn't realize it was that early and it was already 10pm before he even told me that. Since when is 6:30 a.m. early for a working professional? I get up earlier than that every day. I've reminded myself that he works 6-7 days week and his job carries a lot of responsibility; so if I'm going to date him I should be prepared to hear that he has to get up early fairly often. I get up at 4:30am for my job, so I understand the need for sleep... Already making excuses for him, and willing to accept less than you WANT and more importantly, less than you DESERVE. Why am I not surprised? *shrug* Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Every situation and every person is different. There are no absolutes. I totally agree that each situation is unique, and that there are no absolutes. But to presume the terms of their express agreement have changed, when no such conversation has taken place to change those terms, is presumptuous and sets LL up for getting hurt.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Just as there is no point in borrowing trouble and trying to make her feel bad. As long as she knows how SHE feels and what SHE is expecting and then sticks to her guns, she'll be fine. I'm not trying to make her feel bad. I'm being realistic here. The situation is what it is. But I'm not going to tell her, "Good for you, LL! You're in a relationship now!" either.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Who said that? That's borderline what Touche was saying. And LL herself believes she's "dating" him now. So... I'm just not going to coddle. *shrug* Again, I hope I'm wrong!
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