NO, there's NOT always another man/woman.

[OneFootOut]

You know, not every woman out there cheats or leaves for another man. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Someone said before.. she is leaving for herself.. or something to that effect, and that is the same way I am feeling.

 

I don't want my marriage to end, but at the same time, I don't want to stay in it as miserable and lonely and worthless as I feel, and have felt for many years while trying so hard to make him understand things need to change. I can't keep living like this.

 

There is no other man. Period. There was no other man before I met my husband. I hadn't even dated for about 8 years when I met him. If I do decide to leave FOR MYSELF, there probably won't be another man for another 8 years - if ever again! I want to be happy. I want to feel valuable and alive. My husband has been so distant and removed for so long now that there's nothing left between us. It's sad and frustrating, but that's how it is.

 

So no, don't assume there is ALWAYS another man, or some well laid plan, especially if you were being warned all that time and she was telling you how she felt and asking you to help fix it before it was too late. Women need companionship, and connection on a personal level from their mates. After so long without that, or after so long fighting for it with no results, we just get tired and give up. When that love and passion dies inside us women... it's a hard hard thing to revive. I don't even know if it can be brought back to life, I'm still working on that in my own situation.

 

This was taken from another thread because I believe this topic warranted it's own. I can't believe why so may of you are of the opinion that there is no other reason to walk away from a marriage than TO someone else.

 

I was married a long time ago to an extremely violent and abusive man. He was an alcoholic drug abuser who had terrified me into the farce of a marriage in the first place by making threats against my family. I was only 17 at the time and didn't know how to handle the situation. I got away from him because of his constant abuse, isolation, and violence. I won't go into details, but I am lucky to have gotten out with my life. I left FOR ME.

 

I then got into a relationship with who I thought was his exact opposite. We never got married but were together a few years. He turned out to be a liar, a thief, and cheated every chance he got. He also became abusive near the end of that. So once again I got out FOR ME.

 

After that guy, I was done with relationships. I raised my kids from that mess and worked on rebuilding my life and worked on myself inside and out.

 

So you can probably understand my leaving the two previous? You can probably grasp that I wasn't leaving to be with someone else?

 

Well, now I am married to a man who doesn't lie, cheat, or steal. He doesn't argue or fight. He's not abusive. He works and provides for the family.

 

BUT. For 8 of the 12 years we have been married, he has not touched me. He has some hang ups and issues that he is not willing to admit or to change. He doesn't talk to me except about his job. He doesn't want to hear about my day, he actually told me that a few weeks ago when we were talking about things. He blows off my birthdays and other 'special days' with a "sorry" every year. He doesn't offer up kind gestures, or do any of the 'little things' that count so much. He's distanced himself and removed himself from our relationship over the years that we've became nothing more than friends who share a house and kids.

 

I have tried for SO LONG to change things before they got this bad. He doesn't think there is a problem because it was his attitudes, actions, and his "comfort zone limits?" that dictated how things are. It's working for him - to be so removed, keeping me at arm's length, and enjoying his side of life. He's got it the way he wants it and won't make an effort and step up and be the man I need him to be.

 

I have tried so many times through the years to openly and honestly talk to him and write him letters and make it clear to him that I felt like I was dying, becoming numb, feeling unwanted and unimportant. He never heard me. Or he would make a small effort for a couple days to get me to shut up about it, then revert right back. I walk on eggshells around him. He's grouchy and unapproachable 99% of the time.

 

So yes, I have one foot out the door and am ready to leave. There is no other man, there is no plan. Once again, if and when I do step on out, it will be for ME. I would rather live on my own in peace than be so miserably depressed around him, and reminded daily of how much he has rejected me and pushed me away all this time.

 

Get it?

 

Maybe those of you so adamant about there ALWAYS being someone else have been burned that way. Or you just don't grasp that men and women want and need different things? I don't have a clue. I just know that you are wrong.

 

I bet if your wife refused to touch you for 8 years, rejected your attempts over and over, ignored you, refused to be intimate on ANY level with you, didn't care to hear anything you had to say, never acknowledged you, and made you feel worthless and unwanted, you would leave too.

 

No wait, according to your theory, first you would cheat, then leave to be with your 'other'.

[lostsoulmate]

You are a brave, strong woman. If you have one foot out the door, and say you have no plan.

 

Make a plan. Get your other foot out the door. Everyone deserves to be happy!

 

Good luck. I hope you find your happiness!

[stuckinoz]

I cried while I was reading your post & the one you pasted.

And it is absolutely ON TARGET! There are more of us than most realize that leave a marriage for ourselves, not for someone else - (Although, I will admit when I first left, I felt it would have been a lot easier to have someone there to catch me)

I'm sorry you've had to endure so much - Good Luck to you & keep us posted.

[OneFootOut]

Thanks for the support ya'll. That one foot still stuck in the door is the foolish one attached to the small hope that I can still find a way to change things. I came here to seek other avenues and suggestions, I've tried everything else I can think of.

 

He won't go to MC. I've asked. If I managed to get him to go, he wouldn't be open and honest because he doesn't want anyone in his business. He is making an effort now, and as much as I wish it was working, its just not. No amount of flowers or gifts or dates can fix this. If we do have a chance, we need to start way back at square one and meet each other all over again.

 

I'm determined to try everything I can before I walk away. I want to be able to say I did try everything, and didn't just give up and quit on our family. As open and honest as I have been with him lately, I just can't bring myself to tell him it's really over for me. I know he's trying now... whether that is just temporary to put a patch on things, or whether he really is changing.. I don't know yet.

 

I don't want to have to tell him that I don't love him anymore the way a wife should love a husband. I love him as a friend and the father of our kids, but that's where it ends. It's not a choice to feel this way, it's just the way I feel. He tried to rub my back the other day, and his touch made me feel so uncomfortable. After all these years of pleading for his attention and affection, there's just nothing there anymore. It's so SAD to watch our marriage coming to an end, knowing I can't do anything to change it. I won't be married again if this one ends. You can take that one to the bank.

[Edna07]

I don't want to have to tell him that I don't love him anymore the way a wife should love a husband. I love him as a friend and the father of our kids, but that's where it ends. It's not a choice to feel this way, it's just the way I feel. He tried to rub my back the other day, and his touch made me feel so uncomfortable. After all these years of pleading for his attention and affection, there's just nothing there anymore. It's so SAD to watch our marriage coming to an end, knowing I can't do anything to change it. I won't be married again if this one ends. You can take that one to the bank.

 

 

This really hit home with me. I feel the same way toward my husband. I just don't love him like that anymore. There is nothing there. And I really feel your pain - I don't want to have to tell him that. It would cut like a knife. But... we need to be honest with ourselves and them too.

[in a daze]

my situation is very close, but, my wife never REALLY sat me down and went over the things that bothered. i know she lightly touched the subject and i know i should of picked up on it, but she even admits that she is working on bringing out her feelings more and not holding things in. i hope our separation will give her the space and the clear head to see that when she laid the cards on the table, i am responding, hopefully its not too late. do you feel that once the feeling is gone, that it never comes back? and if it can what would you two suggest the best way to help her in the journey

[LakesideDream]

Everybody has their own story, and situation. With the number of "couples" out there of course every marriage / LTR doesen't end because of an OW/OM. To be both frank and honest though, the majority do.

 

Womens brains are hard wired to have male "protectors". A hundred or so years of socialization in Western countries, and fifty years of the sexual revolution and Womans Movement does not change a few million years of genetics and natural selection. Women with children don't and didn't do a great job keeping the assorted wolves, bears, lions, and hyena's away from the cave opening. Ditto with hunting those deer and elk, not to mention mastadons. Nature compensated.

 

It's that same "nature" that encourages women to have a "soft place to land" when leaving a relationship. In the past few decades it's become much easier (some say to easy) for a woman to move from relationship to relationship if that's what she wants. Sexual autonomy, no fault divorce, reproductive "rights", all have lead to an unbalance system in todays Western Society. Maybe that's to be expected as Men have been in the drivers seat for many hundreds of thousands of years.

 

In past eons, men were at higher risk. Killing dinner, or fighting off enemies came with the risk of getting croaked. Not so today. Both women and men work and support their families. Large animals are not so much of a problem in Kansas City, Portland, or San Antonio... at least 4 legged ones.

 

And.. a trend is emerging. Fewer men are willing to make the sacrifices needed to be in, or maintain relationships. The same is true of women. It has become true in Western Society that each parter has become easily "replaceable". Hopefully some middle ground will be reached before society breaks down totally. Hope is dim though. There are segments of "Western Society" where the average birth is to single (female) parents, without any sureity of who the genetic father (baby daddy) actually is. The real fear is that this will become "normal" and society at large will embrase that model.

 

Thank gawd I won't live to see that.

[OneFootOut]

my situation is very close, but, my wife never REALLY sat me down and went over the things that bothered. i know she lightly touched the subject and i know i should of picked up on it, but she even admits that she is working on bringing out her feelings more and not holding things in. i hope our separation will give her the space and the clear head to see that when she laid the cards on the table, i am responding, hopefully its not too late. do you feel that once the feeling is gone, that it never comes back? and if it can what would you two suggest the best way to help her in the journey

 

Hi, I'm sorry things are the way they are with you and your wife, it's good to hear that you are trying to respond the best you can now. It must be hard to do if you were in the dark about her true feelings until it was too late.

 

I feel that I opened up completely and honestly with my own husband - several times over the years. One of those times, he got frustrated and threw up his hands asking, "why is it always the same talk over and over?" I was taken back for a moment and hadn't realized myself that it was the same argument over and over with different wording. It was then I realized and simply said, "because nothing ever changes." I've been fighting this one-sided battle for years trying to save our marriage and make it somewhere I want to be.

 

As far as "when the love is gone" does it come back? I honestly don't know. As I have said, I don't want to feel like this, but I do. I don't know if there is anything he can do now to help revive it, or if either of us can. I guess only time will tell, but I am struggling with how much more time to invest in waiting to see if it will ever come back.

 

It's a difficult situation to be in, on both sides, I'm sure. Maybe you can just take it slow and easy and listen to her if and when she talks. She is the only one who knows how she feels and what she needs. And honestly, maybe she doesn't even know that yet. I'm sorry I couldn't be more help. Hope things work out for you one way or the other.

[sumdude]

I wish you well and hope you can find a way through all this.

 

I don't doubt that there isn't always an affair that ends the relationship. But in my case and in so many I've heard ans seen with my own eyes there's usually someone around... there may not be a full fledged affair though. It could be someone who's being supportive and a 'freind', who is giving the woman something emotionally or otherwise she isn't getting from the marriage. Emotional affairs they're called, no sex but a relationship nonetheless. In fact an EA is more likely to pull a woman away or help her move on than simply a physical one.

 

In my case? I still do not know for sure whether or not there was a physical affair at the time of our separation. But there certainly was a man she was talking to and seeing a lot.... and who she moved in with as a 'roommate' according to her at least. So it seems likely that as soon as she left me the emotional affair or 'friendship' blossomed into more if it wasn't there already.

 

Now, less than two years later she is married to him, so there you go.

 

Yet the point is that for whatever reasons she had she was open to something else and left. Something about our marriage wasn't working for her at the time.

[OneFootOut]

Everybody has their own story, and situation. With the number of "couples" out there of course every marriage / LTR doesen't end because of an OW/OM. To be both frank and honest though, the majority do.

 

Womens brains are hard wired to have male "protectors". A hundred or so years of socialization in Western countries, and fifty years of the sexual revolution and Womans Movement does not change a few million years of genetics and natural selection. Women with children don't and didn't do a great job keeping the assorted wolves, bears, lions, and hyena's away from the cave opening. Ditto with hunting those deer and elk, not to mention mastadons. Nature compensated.

 

It's that same "nature" that encourages women to have a "soft place to land" when leaving a relationship. In the past few decades it's become much easier (some say to easy) for a woman to move from relationship to relationship if that's what she wants. Sexual autonomy, no fault divorce, reproductive "rights", all have lead to an unbalance system in todays Western Society. Maybe that's to be expected as Men have been in the drivers seat for many hundreds of thousands of years.

 

In past eons, men were at higher risk. Killing dinner, or fighting off enemies came with the risk of getting croaked. Not so today. Both women and men work and support their families. Large animals are not so much of a problem in Kansas City, Portland, or San Antonio... at least 4 legged ones.

 

And.. a trend is emerging. Fewer men are willing to make the sacrifices needed to be in, or maintain relationships. The same is true of women. It has become true in Western Society that each parter has become easily "replaceable". Hopefully some middle ground will be reached before society breaks down totally. Hope is dim though. There are segments of "Western Society" where the average birth is to single (female) parents, without any sureity of who the genetic father (baby daddy) actually is. The real fear is that this will become "normal" and society at large will embrase that model.

 

Thank gawd I won't live to see that.

 

I see your points and understand where you are coming from with this.

I've never had a "male protector". I've never had a male that was a safe place to land. I have always had to be the one holding things together and making things happen and protecting my family. I have had to be the ferocious mother bear to protect my children and provide our safety. No man has ever been that for me. I've had to protect myself from the men who were supposed to be protecting me!

 

My husband is a great provider, but often I am the one still holding things together, figuring out how to get us through tough spots, and being the protective force. He just kind of goes with the flow and doesn't take much initiative at all outside of his job.

 

I would love to have a man be the strength for a change. I am always the one holding, and never being held. I've also been on my own many years with my children before, and had to be 'everything' for them. So being on my own again with them now wouldn't be a big deal for me. I know that I don't need anyone there to hold me up, because I've never had that.

 

Right now, I am feeling like if this marriage does end, I will make the sane and safe choice to remain single from here on out, and be everything I need to be for myself and my kids. Women are becoming stronger and more self-reliant these days. One could argue it's because the men have began to let us down so often from not being plugged-in to their relationships and working at those as much as they do their jobs. If all they want and need in a partner is a maid and babysitter, they should stay home with their mothers.

[Edna07]

I feel that I opened up completely and honestly with my own husband - several times over the years. One of those times, he got frustrated and threw up his hands asking, "why is it always the same talk over and over?" I was taken back for a moment and hadn't realized myself that it was the same argument over and over with different wording. It was then I realized and simply said, "because nothing ever changes." I've been fighting this one-sided battle for years trying to save our marriage and make it somewhere I want to be.

 

Do you know how many times I have said that to my husband? We fought about the same thing over and over and over again and yeah - nothing EVER changed. I suggested counseling twice - he didn't want to, but told me I could go to "figure out what was wrong with me". He never wanted to work on the problem, just find different ways to place blame on me, other people, work, circumstances. How much does one person have to put up with?

 

He told me the other day that he knows I'm depressed about everything that's going on. I said, "I'm not depressed. I'm just FED UP. I will NEVER take that treatment from anyone ever again. EVER."

 

I'm also struggling as to whether or not I can even get the love back. I just know that I don't feel it right now and I also don't know how much time to give it. I don't want to string him along either if there is no hope of reconciling.

[Woggle]

Didn't you women know what these men were like before you married them? Why is it it that all of a sudden everything that was acceptable before the marriage is a big issue and if the man can't completely change who he is in an instant it is his fault? Men just get sick and tired of being nagged over everything and we go into defense mode to the point that many men just stop trying because nothing we ever do makes our wives happy. It really is the same talk over and over again and we don't know what the hell will satisfy her. I am sorry if I sound harsh but I know what your husband is going through because I see it time and time again with my friends and if they knew what would make her happy they would do it.

[lostsoulmate]

Didn't you women know what these men were like before you married them? Why is it it that all of a sudden everything that was acceptable before the marriage is a big issue and if the man can't completely change who he is in an instant it is his fault? Men just get sick and tired of being nagged over everything and we go into defense mode to the point that many men just stop trying because nothing we ever do makes our wives happy. It really is the same talk over and over again and we don't know what the hell will satisfy her. I am sorry if I sound harsh but I know what your husband is going through because I see it time and time again with my friends and if they knew what would make her happy they would do it.

 

Apparently we didn't know them. Why is it that women can/do try to understand what he wants/needs, but a man just can't seem to figure out what women need/want out of a marriage/relationship?

[Edna07]

In my case, the anger outburst, controlling behavior and lack of respect slowly built over time, so to answer your question - no. I did not know he was like that when I married him.

 

He became an a**hole throughout the marriage.

 

And I never asked him to do anything earth shattering. Just treat me with a little respect and not throw/slam things, yell at me, call me a worthless piece of sh*t, etc. because I didn't empty the GD dishwasher. That's not a normal reaction if you ask me.

 

The man did what he wanted, when he wanted to do it. I never gave him a hard time about it. I let him have his freedom and busted my butt around the house and taking care of our kids.

 

If I didn't have things "up to his standards", he would throw a fit like an angry toddler. Just an example is when he wanted to go out with his friends at Christmas time. I said, "Sure fine, no problem." I had 3 things I had to get done. 1.) Do laundry for my kids 2.) make cookies for his sisters for Christmas 3.) wrap gifts. Our baby had a hard time going to bed that night and I had to spend an extra hour and a half getting him down. Something had to be sacrificed. I sacrificed the cookies. The next morning, he was extremely hungover and laying his a** on the couch while I got everything ready. I told him I didn't have time to make the cookies the night before and he started slamming chairs and telling me that if he would've known that, he would've done it his f**king self and if it were MY family, I would've made the time, but because it was his family, I didn't bother.

 

Oh yeah - he's a real charmer, that one. But I'm the nag.

[Woggle]

Your husband is an abuser so you are a different case. What I am talking about is good men who have their wives resent them because they aren't some perfect romeo from a fairytale that doesn't exist in reality.

 

If men knew what the hell women wanted we would give it to them but in many cases it is simply impossible to make her happy.

[Edna07]

Ahh.. OK. I don't know... I know personally, I don't want a fairy tale. I just want someone I can hang with and be myself with. Someone I can have fun with - an equal partner.

 

I don't care about all that romantic junk. I never have.

[OneFootOut]

Your husband is an abuser so you are a different case. What I am talking about is good men who have their wives resent them because they aren't some perfect romeo from a fairytale that doesn't exist in reality.

 

If men knew what the hell women wanted we would give it to them but in many cases it is simply impossible to make her happy.

 

My husband and I USED to have a great sex life. He USED to be active and involved in our marriage. He USED to be loving and fun and spontaneous. The more involved he became in his career, the more he distanced himself from US. Then he decided he didn't like or want to have sex anymore. Not with me, or anyone else. Then he revealed he had some issues from his past.

 

NO, I didn't know he was like this because he WASN'T. He has turned this marriage into what he wants and what makes him comfortable regardless of how it made me feel. This is NOT a spur of the moment thing. He did a 180 on me years ago and I have been trying to fix ME all these years to be someone he would want again. Guess what, I finally figured out it wasn't me, and gave some of the responsibility to him.

 

He DOES know exactly what I want and need. I told him very point blank and directly.

 

Some perfect Romeo? How about just an average husband who wants to be involved with his wife? He quit on me a long time ago, I'm just now starting to shut down and quit on him for my own sanity. Why keep trying to stay where I feel so unwanted? I'm not asking him to be superman or be anything he isn't capable of or hasn't been before. I'm asking him to give me back the man I married, and to help me reclaim the marriage we HAD.

 

Edna and I are hurting here. We love these men and don't want to leave, but we've been shut down too much and too long. We tell them what we need. We ask them what they need. We didn't choose this, we're just trying to deal with it and figure out ways to save it or move on.

[Alan430]

"""He quit on me a long time ago, I'm just now starting to shut down and quit on him for my own sanity. """

 

See i believe this is one major difference b/w men and women. Women see this as us men quiting on them, when we fail to be emotionally linked.

Energy/Emotional Multi-Taskers

 

I think Men just think they are priortizing and focus all their energys in one area of their life they believe needs the most work at that time. Energy/Emotionaly Focused.

 

That why we never see it comming. But No i dont think The men quit on their women, i think that is how women percieve it. At least that is how i see myself.

[OneFootOut]

Alan, I appreciate where you are coming from, but when I say "quit on me" I don't mean he stopped bringing me flowers and stopped watching girlie flicks with me. I mean he stopped having anything at all to do with me physically. He decided he no longer wanted a sex life, or any sort of intimacy. This came out of left field. I spent several years wondering what was so wrong with me that he didn't want me anymore. I kept trying to change who I was, in hopes that I could be someone who would interest him again. Nothing I did ever worked. After YEARS of this 'abandonment' and being pushed away and refused, he finally told me he had some issues regarding sex, and he just wasn't interested in it.

 

Where did this leave me? Confused, bewildered, stunned, emotionally disconnected, empty, unwanted, undesirable, feeling less than a woman.. the list goes on. Society always hears about the "frigid wife" who makes her husband do without. You never hear about the man not being the least bit interested in sex, so there's just no way to respond or wrap your head around it.

 

I know marriage isn't all about sex and intimacy, but a big part of ME is all about being passionate and sexual and sensual. I want and need intimacy in my marriage. I have not cheated on him through this, and I won't. That's just the kind of person I am. I have allowed myself to be shut down and numbed due to his issues. I can't do it anymore, I feel like so much of who I am has died, that there's not much of me left to save. There are other factors, like his unapproachable attitude and mood, and his lack of initiative or participation to help maintain the household, but the biggie driving me away is the lack of any kind of relationship on a personal level.

 

Oh, and he sees it coming, because I have talked to him about it all. I have laid it all on the table and been completely honest about my feelings, why I feel this way, and that I do have one foot out the door. I'm just hanging on to see if he will make that effort or not I guess. It's hard to let go and move on after 12 years. Especially over things that could be fixed, if he would just try to work them out within himself. I'm TRYING not to be that wife that just up and leaves. I'm TRYING so hard to work through this. I just don't know how much longer I can hang on while I feel as if I am starving for affection and feeling so worthless over here.

[pelicanpreacher]

I imagine you've asked him what his "sexual issues" are but he's shut that conversation down. Perhaps he's got some kinky fantasy he's too ashamed to admit or maybe he's lived his life secretly "in the closet" and is too torn to reveal the truth? It seems odd and difficult to believe that an adult of any sexual pursuasion who is otherwise healthy and fully functional would completely abstain from sex altogether. You should look for evidence of masturbation by thoroughly examining all areas of the home that afford privacy by illuminating them with a black light!

[OneFootOut]

pelican, if he has some kinky fantasies, he needs to let me know so we can get it on ;o)

 

Honestly, I don't think he even understands what the hang up is. He's mentioned things happened in his past, but won't go into details. I told him that at one point I had questioned his sexuality, and he never responded to that either. He hasn't denied or admitted anything actually. He did say he strongly identifies with 'asexuality' - those people who do not want or like sexual encounters with others, but some of whom do masturbate as a sort of self-love I guess. I suppose he does too, but I don't know that for a fact. That's not the point though. The point is he has made his choice, and it completely leaves me out.

[peteyj]

Maybe he is gay but is afraid to come out of the closet. Maybe he's into some kinky stuff that would get him locked up if people knew. Who knows.

 

You say you two don't really have conversations anymore, you two don't touch, you two don't have sex.......obviously something is missing here. Either the guy wants to move into the woods and become a hermit loner or he's really doing something elsewhere you just don't want to admit to yourself.

[OneFootOut]

Pete, I have asked him if he was gay. I told him I questioned his sexuality. He never responded either way. I'm not sure he knows.

 

Trust me, he's not doing the deed anywhere else with anyone else. He's just got issues and doesn't want sex with anyone. When he isn't at work, he's home.

[Lizzie60]

I do believe you..

 

I never went TO someone else.. when I left my 'exes'...

 

We are 'women'.. it's very different IMO.. For most men though, it's a different story.. they won't leave their 'comfortable' life if they don't have anyone else out there waiting for them.

 

We (women) will leave if we are in an abusive relationship, or, like me, if there is no emotional connection anymore (with my first 'ex').

[OneFootOut]

Hey I've been thinking things out and here's a timeline.

 

1997 got together in May, sex was great.

1998 still great, not as often, tried to spice it up

1999 started out real good, suddenly came to a stop mid way through

2000 maybe 2-3 times that year

2001 absolutely none

2002 absolutely none

2003 absolutely none

2004 absolutely none

2005 maybe twice (trying to fix the previous years)

2006 maybe twice (still trying to fix things)

2007 absolutely none

2008 absolutely none

2009 absolutely none

 

So there it is in black and white. I have spent most of my marriage trying to figure out how and why it went wrong, what's wrong with me, and how to fix it. Man, time flies when you're having fun.