How many WS described the OW/OM as

[Spark1111]

..."we're just friends" when confronted on DDAY? And why do you think that is?

 

Curious to know this: Do you think it was minimizing to spare the BS pain? Or do you think, on some level, the continued thinking of "we are just friends" by the WS helped them compartmentalize their affair behavior?

[username24]

Self preservation. It is a load of bull to say they are trying to spare the BS from pain. If they truly wanted to spare us from pain they wouldn't have had the A in the first place.

[smarterthanbefore]

I agree with username completly.

[Lizzie60]

..."we're just friends" when confronted on DDAY? And why do you think that is?

 

Curious to know this: Do you think it was minimizing to spare the BS pain? Or do you think, on some level, the continued thinking of "we are just friends" by the WS helped them compartmentalize their affair behavior?

 

 

I think it is to minimize their personal implication... not necessarily to spare the BS... It's more to cover their own azz..

[2sure]

"Just" friends, "just" a F-Buddy, "just" happened, etc. All attempts to minimize. Just = Unimportant.

 

Sadly, thats exactly how some married people ultimately see their affair. As unimportant, and harmless. A stupid thing they did.

[Adunaphel]

A number of people I know gave, and was given, the "we are just friends" line.

I find it amazing how confusing the difference between "the BS's pain" and "my own ass" can be.

[jasminetea]

Yes, I got the 'just friends' excuse. He was 'just friends' with at least five women. Then when the physical part came out - the sex was crap, the conversation was rubbish, their sense of humour was purile, they were too old/too bitchy/too fat/too thin/too spoilt/you name it.

 

All to minimise the impact on me, with the intended consequence of minimising the impact on him.

[taylor]

How many WS described the OW/OM as..."we're just friends" when confronted on DDAY? And why do you think that is?

 

If you really want to know why, you need to ask WS. I doubt you will get many WS to respond here. This thread is a BS venting opportunity. Not sure if this is what you intended it to be.

[Spark1111]

Taylor, when you are a BS, the weeks following discovery are a whirlwind of pain and confusion for ALL involved. Not only do you stop trusting your spouse, but you stop trusting your perceptions, judgements, intuitions in all relationships and situations, just about everything you need to function as a human. I'm sure many OW/OM experience the same thing after DDay.

 

That is why it is described as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Add to that, the lies, omissions, minimizing, etc. and you really get tossed on your head for months and sometimes years.

 

I'm sure many a WS felt "they were just friends," and as my WS asserted, "and it just got out of hand."

 

But when confronted with thousands of minutes and texts, planning time and weekends together, gifts, talk of a future together, and all the lies and secrecy thrown in, it is hard to believe the WS can continue to justify their actions or covers their azzes with "we're just friends."

 

Really trying to understand the delusional thinking involved in the affair scenario, and am happy for whomever responds, you included. Thanks!

[Spark1111]

If you really want to know why, you need to ask WS. I doubt you will get many WS to respond here. This thread is a BS venting opportunity. Not sure if this is what you intended it to be.

 

 

Plus, my WS, whether out of guilt, or shame, or self-protection, is not yet ready to divulge the information. I also tried calling the OW, and she was just pissed off I attempted to call her. So until I receive the satisfaction from him, LS has been a tremendous forum to learn and heal from.

[Owl]

If you really want to know why, you need to ask WS. I doubt you will get many WS to respond here. This thread is a BS venting opportunity. Not sure if this is what you intended it to be.

 

Taylor, I'm curious...as a former WS...what did you tell your H about the OM?

 

Did you attempt to minmize it in this same fashion?

 

And...it's interesting to note that while the BS's may be "venting"...they're also all telling the same story.

 

Right along with me...I was told prior to d-day when I felt that she was spending too much time talking with OM..."You have nothing to worry about, we're just good friends.".

 

So call it a vent or not...it was still exactly what most of us were told.

 

And I did ask my wife why she said that to me (later, when we were in marriage counseling). She told me point blank it was because she didn't want to admit to me that she was in a relationship with him. She felt at the time that it was both...avoiding hurting me, and covering her tracks at the same time.

[65tr6]

Spark,

 

In my case, my wife was ready to puke her guts out about the affair. Just that she just could not do it on her own. I think it depends a lot on how your prior relationship was. There was always that "respect" in my case and there was no way she could hide it from me even if she wanted to AFTER I asked her about the affair. Here is a difference though, if i had not asked her about it she may have never told me about. Who knows, right ?

 

So the first opportunity that came along, she said "yes" she was having an affair. I dont think she could have hidden for that long even if she wanted to. She did say it started out as "friends" but did not use that as an excuse at all. So I see a lot of difference here when it comes to how my wife had "rules" during her affair. I dont know if it makes the recovery all the more difficult or easy.

 

My wife never compartmentalized her affair. She gave it all. I think women who are emotionally involved do that. And that makes the road to recovery that much more painful.

[taylor]

Taylor, when you are a BS, the weeks following discovery are a whirlwind of pain and confusion for ALL involved. Not only do you stop trusting your spouse, but you stop trusting your perceptions, judgements, intuitions in all relationships and situations, just about everything you need to function as a human. I'm sure many OW/OM experience the same thing after DDay.

 

That is why it is described as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Add to that, the lies, omissions, minimizing, etc. and you really get tossed on your head for months and sometimes years.

 

I'm sure many a WS felt "they were just friends," and as my WS asserted, "and it just got out of hand."

 

But when confronted with thousands of minutes and texts, planning time and weekends together, gifts, talk of a future together, and all the lies and secrecy thrown in, it is hard to believe the WS can continue to justify their actions or covers their azzes with "we're just friends."

 

Really trying to understand the delusional thinking involved in the affair scenario, and am happy for whomever responds, you included. Thanks!

 

I certainly understand your need to gather as much information and understanding as you can to come to terms with your WS affair. Like you said, life becomes a whirlwind of confusion and pain for everyone following D-day. It takes a long time to sort it all out. I admire and respect you for being open and for seeking answers.

 

My only point was that if you really want to know why WS use the "just friends" line, your best answers will come from the primary sources - the WS. If you want to get into the head of a WS, ask a WS.

 

Unless a BS like Owl point blank asks his WS why she used the "just friends" line, what you will get from BS is pure speculation. I just didn't want to see your thread turn into a venting opportunity for BS when you are truly seeking answers.

[jasminetea]

I just didn't want to see your thread turn into a venting opportunity for BS when you are truly seeking answers.

 

Sometimes part of the healing process is knowing that you're not the only one, that other people have experienced what you have, have the same questions and understand what you're feeling and why.

 

Also, as Owl has demonstrated, some BS have asked their WS and have answers, so asking the BS has been proved to be relevant.

 

Besides, asking the WS may not be appropriate at this time for the OP. Achieving a dispassionate stance with a WS takes a long time and this sort of question could provoke all kinds of passion that the OP may want to avoid for now.

[Owl]

Taylor-

 

So...asking a WS...what was YOUR response to this? What did you tell YOUR H on d-day?

 

Since we've darned few fWS's that stay around here...your input would be interesting.

[NoIDidn't]

..."we're just friends" when confronted on DDAY?

 

ALL/Most of them.

 

And why do you think that is?

 

Curious to know this: Do you think it was minimizing to spare the BS pain? Or do you think, on some level, the continued thinking of "we are just friends" by the WS helped them compartmentalize their affair behavior?

 

Because it shields them from the truth of the hurt their actions are causing. If they say "yes, this is my affair partner" they may have to hear "then get out".

 

It helps them do all the things you listed in the questions. If anything it shows just how well aware they are of their actions and what they are doing to keep everyone else in the dark about it.

 

A better question is for the OP, how do they feel when introduced as "just a friend" under any circumstances by their "lover"? But that's for another thread. In both instances, the WS make the Spouse and the OP feel duped and used. imho

[taylor]

Taylor-

 

So...asking a WS...what was YOUR response to this? What did you tell YOUR H on d-day?

 

Since we've darned few fWS's that stay around here...your input would be interesting.

 

The OM and I told each other many times that we were "just friends" to each other.

 

We did not admit feelings to each other because we worked together and because we both knew I WAS MARRIED.

 

But I knew he was attracted to me and I was to him. And we both knew we had a special connection. But aside from some flirting, we did not act on the attraction.

 

I had boundaries in place: NO TOUCHING, NO MEETINGS OUTSIDE WORK, NO ADMITTING FEELINGS. I thought as long as these boundaries were not crossed, we maintained a "just friends" relationship.

 

Married people are attracted to other people from time to time. It doesn't mean they are going to act on that attraction or jump into a full-blown affair with that person.

 

If you don't act on the attraction or even confess the attraction/feelings to the OP, your relationship remains "just friends" so I thought.

 

I doubt many married people run home and confess to their spouses that they met someone that day that they were very attracted to. They write the feelings off as silly, push them out of their mind, ignore them, and assume the feelings will fleeting and will fade. No need for alarm.

 

And this is how I felt with my OM for many months...until he started flirting and I flirted back. At this point, I wrote it off as harmless flirting because I had no intention of crossing any boundaries with him (see above). And I didn't.

 

There was light casual flirting going on thruout the workplace. The OM was not the only man there who flirted and was not the only one that flirted with me. It was all light flirting and teasing. Common and harmless. Just coworkers having some fun to pass the day.

 

I knew I was starting to develop some feelings for this man about 8 months after I met him. I chalked it up to a harmless "school girl" crush. I would have been embarrassed to admit that to anyone..even my mother!

 

I did not want to admit to myself that I..a married woman...could be attracted to or have feelings for another man other than my husband. I didn't want to believe it. I denied it to myself. I denied it to the OM, in fact.

 

I reasoned with myself that as long as I maintained my boundaries, we were "just friends" despite what was developing in my heart. I wanted to ignore what was there because it embarrassed me.

 

Part 2 coming...

[taylor]

As time went on, the flirting escalated and the emotional bond grew stronger. I still maintained the boundaries I had set. But in my heart, I had crossed many. I knew I was becoming attached to him, but I continued to act at work as if we were "just friends."

 

I never hid anything from my husband. My husband knew I was the kind of person to reach out to others and he knew this man was struggling financially as a single father. My husband helped me pick out gifts for this man's children's birthdays and he even offered to help him find another better-paying job. I even told him I thought the OM was starting to have a little crush on me.

 

I didn't think I had anything to hide because in my mind I was never going to be more than "just friends" with this man, even though my heart was feeling something different.

 

Eleven months after I met the OM, he expressed feelings for me. I was shocked at how strong his feelings were. He had put up a pretty good facade. I turned around and told him the feelings were mutual.

 

THEN, I knew we were in trouble. We had crossed a huge boundary.

 

I didn't have much time to deal with it, tho, because within a few days a work change separated us forever and the relationship ended.

 

It wasn't until then that I realized how deep my feelings for this man were. I couldn't deny them any longer to myself.

 

A week went by and the OM sent me a text telling me about his sick kids and how he missed me. I SHOWED THE TEXT TO MY HUSBAND!. Why not? Friends are allowed to miss friends, aren't they?

 

The next day my husband overheard me telling a girlfriend how bad I felt because I didn't get to say goodbye to the OM. I told her there was no way to continue the friendship because we didn't work together any longer. But I still wanted to say goodbye to him.

 

My husband questioned me about my feelings for the OM and wanted to know why I felt the need to say goodbye to him. I told him the OM and I had grown to be close friends and that I cared about him.

 

He asked me if I loved him. I told him, "No, that it started out as friendship and grew into an infatuation."

 

He asked if I kissed him. I said no..and that was the truth.

 

He asked if I wanted to kiss him and I said yes.

 

It was never my intention to tell my husband about my feelings for this man. Not because I wanted to minimize the relationship. Not because I wanted to cover my own azz. Not for self-preservation. And not even to protect my husband from pain.

 

I didn't want to tell my husband about my feelings for two reasons:

 

1. I was embarrassed that I even had feelings for this man...that I was so weak that I couldn't even control my feelings or maintain my boundaries.

 

2. I wanted to deal with these feelings on my own, without admitting them to anyone. I was angry I even admitted them to the OM. I certainly didn't want to bring them into my marriage. I thought I could deal with them on my own since the relationship was over. No need to dump them into the marriage.

 

But it didn't work that way.

 

And to tell you the truth, it's a good thing these feelings came to light. I doubt I could have handled them on my own. I went into an acute depression soon after D-day. And those feelings were not only undeniable, but very conspicuous.

[Spark1111]

Taylor, I sooooo appreciate your honesty, and acutally, the beginning of WS affair began just like this, too.

 

Please LS posters, do not throw stones at me, but in IC and MC we have learned that the very best marriages speak openly about feelings of attraction to people outside the marriage! And the married couple comes up with a plan of action to build boundaries around the marriage....imagine that type of intimate communication. I personally can not.

Yes.....true. It is human nature to be attracted to others, even while married. It is what we do about that attraction that either preserves the marriage, or helps to detroy it. And once it becomes a secret, whether out of sparing your partners feelings or your own, oh boy, watch out.

 

I can only imagine having the kind of trust and emotional intimacy where that type of mature communication can take place without shame and recrimination. Had I had it, I would not be here posting today.

[taylor]

I think the line "just friends" is used for many reasons by WS, but the reasons vary.

 

I think when BS flat out accuse the WS of having an affair, the WS will use this line to lie about it's existance if in fact the WS is having an affair.

 

Why lie? Number one reason, I think, is so that the affair doesn't end.

 

It's a way to protect and preserve the affair.

 

Alot of WS in the midst of an affair are in such a fog that the last thing they are concerned about is hurting the BS. Like one poster said, if the WS was concerned about the pain the affair would cause, they wouldn't enter into the affair in the first place. True.

 

And I doubt many WS are even thinking straight enough to even be concerned or cognizant of the consequences of their actions, ie, being thrown out, losing their home, kids, job, etc. The affair continues even when these risks become real possibilities.

 

Other reasons WS use the "just friends" line:

 

When BS accuse the WS of having a PA, when in fact, the affair is an EA. They minimize it because the affair did not involve physical contact. They separate the two types of affair and categorize the PA as being the more severe offense. This is misguided thinking because both are detrimental to marriages. They both destroy trust. And often, the EA is actually considered to be the harder of the two types of affairs to overcome.

 

When the WS is involved in an EA, but embarrassed to admit they have these feelings. They deny the feelings so much to themselves, and others, that they convince themselves the feelings aren't as strong as they really are. They are addicted to the affair partner, but ashamed that they are, at the same time. They delude themselves into thinking the relationship is just friends so that they don't have to face their own shame.

 

But bottom line, again, the main reason WS use the "just friends" line is to throw off suspicion so that the affair can continue.

[Owl]

They use the "just friends" line to avoid the consequences...one of the main of which of course would be to end the affair.

 

Any BS who would want to reconcile of course makes that their highest priority requirement.

 

I would also agree with your comment that they don't want to admit...TO THEMSELVES MOST OF ALL...that they've crossed the line.

[taylor]

Taylor, I sooooo appreciate your honesty, and acutally, the beginning of WS affair began just like this, too.

 

Please LS posters, do not throw stones at me, but in IC and MC we have learned that the very best marriages speak openly about feelings of attraction to people outside the marriage! And the married couple comes up with a plan of action to build boundaries around the marriage....imagine that type of intimate communication. I personally can not.

 

Yes.....true. It is human nature to be attracted to others, even while married. It is what we do about that attraction that either preserves the marriage, or helps to detroy it. And once it becomes a secret, whether out of sparing your partners feelings or your own, oh boy, watch out.

 

I can only imagine having the kind of trust and emotional intimacy where that type of mature communication can take place without shame and recrimination. Had I had it, I would not be here posting today.

 

This is all so very true, Spark. And so eloquently said.

 

It never crossed my mind to tell my husband of my attraction for another man. I couldn't even admit it to myself half the time because I was embarrassed by what I felt. (Of course at the same time, the affair feelings were euphoric. The embarrassment wasn't enough to stop me from wanting to feel that "high." )

 

When I did admit everything to my husband it was agonizing due to the sheer shame of it all. The truth came out in bits and pieces. I think they call that trickle truth. It hurt to share all of that with my husband and it hurt him to hear it. But he wanted to hear the truth. And I couldn't deny him that.

 

Even after having an EA, I still don't know if I could just run to my husband if I started to have an attraction for yet another man. But I certainly know now how insidious it would be to let an initial attraction grow.

[NoIDidn't]

Taylor, I sooooo appreciate your honesty, and acutally, the beginning of WS affair began just like this, too.

 

Please LS posters, do not throw stones at me, but in IC and MC we have learned that the very best marriages speak openly about feelings of attraction to people outside the marriage! And the married couple comes up with a plan of action to build boundaries around the marriage....imagine that type of intimate communication. I personally can not.

Yes.....true. It is human nature to be attracted to others, even while married. It is what we do about that attraction that either preserves the marriage, or helps to detroy it. And once it becomes a secret, whether out of sparing your partners feelings or your own, oh boy, watch out.

 

I can only imagine having the kind of trust and emotional intimacy where that type of mature communication can take place without shame and recrimination. Had I had it, I would not be here posting today.

 

Why would you be flame for stating the obvious truth? Many of us would not be here if we had this kind of marriage before whatever kind of affair befell our marriages.

 

I HAD this kind of communication with my H early in our marriage, but it only made him angry when I attempted to protect our marriage by telling him these things. I think he expected me to become blind the minute the vows were said, lol.

 

But, we live, we learn. Glad you guys are getting something out of therapy. Many don't.

[taylor]

Why would you be flame for stating the obvious truth? Many of us would not be here if we had this kind of marriage before whatever kind of affair befell our marriages.

 

I HAD this kind of communication with my H early in our marriage, but it only made him angry when I attempted to protect our marriage by telling him these things. I think he expected me to become blind the minute the vows were said, lol.

 

But, we live, we learn. Glad you guys are getting something out of therapy. Many don't.

 

You make a good point here, NoIDidn't.

 

In an ideal world it would be great to be able to run to your spouse and tell him you found another man attractive and know you could do so without shame or recrimination. It would be great to know such a confession would spur a "mature" conversation to safeguard the marriage from this threat.

 

But people are human and we have emotions. And sometimes the emotions take precedence over the logic. We are not robots. You tell your spouse you are attracted to someone else, he's going to be hurt by the confession..perhaps angry.

 

And if it happens more than once, it's going to lead to lowered self esteem and resentment as well as loss of trust. How could it not!

 

The desire to sit down and chat about it logically would not be the first knee-jerk reaction, IMO.

 

What I learned from my affair is that when you have an attraction, don't underestimate the power it can have over you. Even though you think you can handle it..even though you think you have boundaries in place..it can still creep into the deep recesses of your heart and take hold.

 

The trick is to not let it grow and to understand that if you let it grow, you may create a monster that you can't seem to get under control. You know you are in trouble when you start enjoying the feelings that the attraction creates. And the more the you have these feelings, the more you want them...til you reach a point where you feel you NEED them.

 

Once the attraction grows to the point where you can't or don't want to control it, it's not long before the temptation to act on it becomes overwhelming.

[65tr6]

And we both knew we had a special connection. But aside from some flirting, we did not act on the attraction.

 

I had boundaries in place: ...

Difference right there between you and my wife. If I have to venture a guess, among others, your maturity at understanding relationships probably what stopped you from crossing the line.

 

I doubt many married people run home and confess to their spouses that they met someone that day that they were very attracted to. They write the feelings off as silly, push them out of their mind, ignore them, and assume the feelings will fleeting and will fade. No need for alarm....

 

You are probably an exception here. I am learning that it is extremely healthy to have an open discussion with your spouse about other temptations/attractions that you come across in day-to-day life

 

He asked me if I loved him. I told him, "No, that it started out as friendship and grew into an infatuation."....

Were you sure about this ? You actually knew it was an infatuation and that you were not in love ? Or were you not playing it down for your husband ? Most WS, as you know, are very well known to use the line "I love you but not in love with you anymore". (My wife came pretty close - very devastating moment in your life).