CommitmentPhobe Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I see it like that too!! You CAN see it like that because you had your rockstar youth years where you partied and live life and had anything you wanted in terms of getting women and playing the field, I've had a rock star youth too, I travelled a lot and had a lot of experiences that I would NOT have had if I would have been married at 25. I had the chance at 24 to be married but I was not ready for it. The love experiences and overall experiences I've had since totally cement that. I can't imagine my life any other way. I totally respect what you're saying. I was there at 24 too. I completely understand how challenging it is to make those choices to pursue your interests and live a full life. And yes, I'm really glad I got to experience a lot of things and I really wasn't miserable when I hit 30, if anything things have been getting more interesting the last few years. Well blow me down, CommitmentPhobe. I'm impressed! And I can tell you've "been around" as you put it. It's obvious in this post. You know what you're doing. I don't sense any insecurity in you about women. And here I thought you were one of the misogynists... I think maybe I was wrong. LOL thanks
OpenBook Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Yup. Seeing a guy who earns a lot is essentially a shortcut telling a woman a lot about how fit he is to win at life and by extension how good a mate he has the potential to be. Obviously a lot more weigh in than that ultimately but this was about initial attraction. Like a friend recommending a product, the visible signs of success it life are a resume. I just don't see where all the anger comes from, I think it's completely logical and natural. Seven billion humans say a lot about how well our mating instincts seem to be working. So... you're saying that 7 billion people populating the planet is proof-positive that rich guys mate with young women? Logical and natural, eh? So which "Lost" episode were you in?
CommitmentPhobe Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 A lot of older women like guys that will supplicate them so I guess it's a match made in heaven. Happy for you. Enjoy that. Seriously. Actually guys with lots of money and nothing else are the ones that need supplicating.
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Being a good wife is a lot of work. You do not consider that work worthwhile. Therefore you are a better mate? That logic is a bit twisted. Why would a high earning man want to marry someone with that attitude over a younger, prettier and potentially more interesting woman? Getting past the phrasing, that's exactly the problem I see with marriage today. Two full-blown careers and a marriage just do not jibe. I'm certainly not advocating women giving up careers to be *good* wives (unless that's actually what they want to do), but merely providing an explanation why it doesn't make much sense for a man to marry in this context --> there's no discernible benefit, just liability.
OpenBook Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 A lot of older women like guys that will supplicate them so I guess it's a match made in heaven. Happy for you. Enjoy that. Seriously. Gee I don't think I've ever been "supplicated." How does that work exactly? Is it some sort of kinky sex position or something? Dang, now I feel like I've missed out.
Isolde Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 You're saying you want a stay at home wife, which is fine, but you also stipulate that she can't have frittered away her youth at work. NOTHING changes a woman's youthful attitude (and perhaps looks) more than having children. I love children and want them someday, but I don't have the illusion that I will stay the same carefree person after having them.
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 I'm certainly not advocating women giving up careers to be *good* wives (unless that's actually what they want to do), but merely providing an explanation why it doesn't make much sense for a man to marry in this context --> there's no discernible benefit, just liability. Precisely. Also, stop bitching about men not wanting to commit unless you're willing to solve the root cause.
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 gee i don't think i've ever been "supplicated." how does that work exactly? ask for humbly or earnestly, as in prayer; "supplicate god's blessing" 12345678901234567890
Tomcat33 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I totally respect what you're saying. I was there at 24 too. I completely understand how challenging it is to make those choices to pursue your interests and live a full life. And yes, I'm really glad I got to experience a lot of things and I really wasn't miserable when I hit 30, if anything things have been getting more interesting the last few years. We've come a long way from the "who pays on a first date" thread.
stillafool Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 So men have MORE to gain than lose by settling down. Men definitely gain much more from marriage than women. That's why single women live longer than married women and married men live longer than single women. I guess I must be out of my mind to be married.
stillafool Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Well, that's great - I'm happy to hear, and see that. So why didn't you marry any of those great guys, huh? Because sh-t happens! However I am married to a lovely man who I adore. Why aren't you married to a 20 year old? The problem is - as I have concluded based on everyday experiences and reading here - is that many girls do have this attitude to a much greater extent in their 20s. Then, a decade later all of a suddedn many/some ger the "marriage itch" and the priorities shift dramatically. All of a sudden a guy with no checking account doesn't cut it quite as easily. This transition - when it happens - IMO is at the core of much bitterness from men, simply because who wants to satisfy changing priorities, rather than be valued in a relationship for who he is, hmm? There is no bigger turn off than a woman who wants to get married because "it's time". I hope this becomes less and less common. I love marriage, as long as it's for the right reasons. The same thing goes for men! They only get married because they feel "it's time" to stop whoring around with every skirt they can find and settle down with some woman to take care of them or to have kids. If you feel so bitter towards marriage just don't do it! NEWS FLASH!!! - You can still have kids without a wife. You can also marry a 20 year old if you want because women don't care what men decide to do. It doesn't affect a woman's plans in the least as she will still continue to date and marry as she pleases, just like a man.
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 The same thing goes for men! They only get married because they feel "it's time" to stop whoring around with every skirt they can find and settle down with some woman to take care of them or to have kids. If you feel so bitter towards marriage just don't do it! NEWS FLASH!!! - You can still have kids without a wife. You can also marry a 20 year old if you want because women don't care what men decide to do. It doesn't affect a woman's plans in the least as she will still continue to date and marry as she pleases, just like a man. It's probably true, but the age limitation seems to be much less severe w/ men, and thus the sense of urgency with which (sometimes) dating is approached. In this sense a younger woman is much more attractive marriage material (20 is too young thugh, it must be said) - not only because of her youth per se, but because of her outlook on life - she's still ambivalent towards marriage, weights her options, and basically you need to demonstrate many good reasons why she should marry you. And if you succeed, you know that you've done a good job. (Same thing with older women bagging younger guys). An older woman dating around her age probably (of course, not necessarily) considers, among other things, that she 'should' be getting married soon, so the decision process is often the opposite - she's checking you out, checking thins off her list, and as long as you're 'good enough' to satisfy her marital (NOT dating) expectations, she'll want to marry you. Much less flattering situation. Also, that's when you see the proverbial 'nice guys' married to former 'bad girls' . Nobody wants sloppy seconds . I mean it not in biblical sense , just sayin that if a person has some basic level of self-awareness, there is simply no need to burn through 10 or more partners in their 20s before deciding what kind of person do you want to marry . I have the highest level of respect to people who married young, perhaps highschool sweetharts, and *made it work.* And I'm not bitter towards marriage - on the contrary, I would love to get married, just don't see much reasons to believe that this would be a succesfull gamble, so I'm wary. I would have gotten married in my 2nd LDR ever, but it didn't work out, though not because I wasn't committed to it. Reading here how many relationships (and marriages!) fall apart for vague, frivolous, or no particular reasons at all makes me unwilling even to try again. A marriage is fun, but also a hard work, which it seems people are unwilling or unable to put in these days. I see no problem with high "expectations" from women, but what about a credible indication of devotion to the relationship *no matter what*?
Woggle Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Women for the most part want to be able to change gender roles, break barriers and all that. There is nothing wrong with that but at the same time they want an old school man who makes more money than they do and is stronger than they are. They want men to stay stuck in our prescribed role while they try on a bunch of new identities. If these women stopped looking down on men who are not as alpha as they are men would not have such a complex about financially independent women. It has more to do with a woman's attitude than any career success she has. It's the reason why so many super independent feminist types find themselves unlucky in love. They tende to attract doormats and the alpha-males they are attracted to go for more feminine type of women. Many of these men go for younger women because after years of dating bad boys and emotionally unavailable men many older women have a chip on their shoulder against men the size of Alaska. Many women wise up and learn to appreciate a man that treats them well but the majority just become bitter old misandrists and no man in their right mind wants to deal with that.
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Women for the most part want to be able to change gender roles, break barriers and all that. There is nothing wrong with that but at the same time they want an old school man who makes more money than they do and is stronger than they are. They want men to stay stuck in our prescribed role while they try on a bunch of new identities. If these women stopped looking down on men who are not as alpha as they are men would not have such a complex about financially independent women. It has more to do with a woman's attitude than any career success she has. It's the reason why so many super independent feminist types find themselves unlucky in love. They tende to attract doormats and the alpha-males they are attracted to go for more feminine type of women. Many of these men go for younger women because after years of dating bad boys and emotionally unavailable men many older women have a chip on their shoulder against men the size of Alaska. Many women wise up and learn to appreciate a man that treats them well but the majority just become bitter old misandrists and no man in their right mind wants to deal with that. Word up... It just hit me like a brick wall how much I actually appreciate my feminine, sweet, traditional, gf . It wasn't easy, after years of conditioning to deal with "fierce" s**t. I better go buy some flowers right now .
Woggle Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 My wife has a successful career but she still has that sweet and feminine side. It's a rare combination that a man is lucky to find in a woman.
stillafool Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 An older woman dating around her age probably (of course, not necessarily) considers, among other things, that she 'should' be getting married soon, so the decision process is often the opposite - she's checking you out, checking thins off her list, and as long as you're 'good enough' to satisfy her marital (NOT dating) expectations, she'll want to marry you. Much less flattering situation. Also, that's when you see the proverbial 'nice guys' married to former 'bad girls' . Nobody wants sloppy seconds . I mean it not in biblical sense , just sayin that if a person has some basic level of self-awareness, there is simply no need to burn through 10 or more partners in their 20s before deciding what kind of person do you want to marry . I have the highest level of respect to people who married young, perhaps highschool sweetharts, and *made it work.* The exact, I mean the exact situation women go through. There's no difference at all. [ QUOTE]And I'm not bitter towards marriage - No you just seem bitter towards older women.
Trialbyfire Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hey Woggle, alpha males all the way baby! There's a big difference between the fake alphas who are too stupid to figure out how things work because they've got a book they read from...errrr...actually an internet site that lists dating rules and traditionalist garbage, and real alphas who know how to handle a woman! You cannot teach alpha qualities. You cannot explain alpha qualities to beta or zeta males. You're either born with them or you fail to understand them.
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hey Woggle, alpha males all the way baby! There's a big difference between the fake alphas who are too stupid to figure out how things work because they've got a book they read from...errrr...actually an internet site that lists dating rules and traditionalist garbage, and real alphas who know how to handle a woman! You cannot teach alpha qualities. You cannot explain alpha qualities to beta or zeta males. You're either born with them or you fail to understand them. An alpha male is a male who is bent on succeeding in life, and prioritizes accordingly. "Handling" a woman not such a priority - and that's why he's an alpha - ne does not need to be overly concerned with what women think of him. But, a good, and deserving woman is welcome to join his life as long as she has a lot to bring to the table (which does not include "demands" or other complications). Before you repeat yourself, ask yourself - why did Michael Corleone picked the simple, traditional, village girl over his longtime american girlfriend ?
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 (which does not include "demands" or other complications). Before you repeat yourself, ask yourself - why did Michael Corleone picked the simple, traditional, village girl over his longtime american girlfriend ? Hmmm...because she had no needs or wants of her own? Demands? Complications? Are you talking about women having emotional needs in a relationship? Well, if you are, yes we do, and I will happily wait for the right person who will be an equal partner. Whenever I read these responses, all I can think of is that some of the men who post here want a woman who will be there for their needs and wants, but if she has her own needs and wants, suddenly she is "demanding" or "complicated". Is that fair?
Trialbyfire Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 An alpha male is a male who is bent on succeeding in life, and prioritizes accordingly. "Handling" a woman not such a priority - and that's why he's an alpha - ne does not need to be overly concerned with what women think of him. But, a good, and deserving woman is welcome to join his life as long as she has a lot to bring to the table (which does not include "demands" or other complications). Before you repeat yourself, ask yourself - why did Michael Corleone picked the simple, traditional, village girl over his longtime american girlfriend ? Alpha qualities can't be explained. They just are. Women can smell it a mile away and are attracted to it. You can try and try and try to put alpha qualities into words but you'll never understand them. Also, not all alphas are alike, just like not all betas are alike. p.s. Michael Corleone is a fictional character...
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hmmm...because she had no needs or wants of her own? Demands? Complications? Are you talking about women having emotional needs in a relationship? Well, if you are, yes we do, and I will happily wait for the right person who will be an equal partner. Whenever I read these responses, all I can think of is that some of the men who post here want a woman who will be there for their needs and wants, but if she has her own needs and wants, suddenly she is "demanding" or "complicated". Is that fair? No, demands and complications means dealing with personality types that apparently derive satisfaction from posting inflamatory and demeaning remarks . This type of attitude is a major problem, because essentially it says "I'll be with you as long as things go my way and/or you cater to my "demands"". But of course any relationship will go though some low points and hardships. That's why finding a woman who understands (*really understands*) that is so important. In return she will get the same - a devoted husband who will build life with her.
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Alpha qualities can't be explained. They just are. Women can smell it a mile away and are attracted to it. I never objected to that, just sayin that in these cases there is usually a line of interested women, and the ones who do better in landing an "alpha" are not necessarily the demanding ones that need "handling" .
melodymatters Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 ...And the beat goes on, blah, blah blah, lets all make blanket generalizations that insult both genders. Haven't read through the whole thread, but in the first couple of pages woman were getting sh*t for saying that this didn't apply to them, as if they were just paying lip service. So FACT : My husband married a woman 16 years older than him, and I married a man who has a lot less money than I do. And we happen to be that couple that makes everyone nauseous because we get along so well, and love and appreciate each other like crazy.
Trialbyfire Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I never objected to that, just sayin that in these cases there is usually a line of interested women, and the ones who do better in landing an "alpha" are not necessarily the demanding ones that need "handling" . You're so silly. Landing a man is such an archaic term. Your assumption that people are objects to be landed is based on not understanding how alphas react to different stimuli. I can't fault you for not understanding. It is what it is.
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 You're so silly. Landing a man is such an archaic term. Your assumption that people are objects to be landed is based on not understanding how alphas react to different stimuli. I can't fault you for not understanding. It is what it is. So, computing in your head what "stimuli" an alpha would react to is *not* a strategy (to "land" him, or whatever word you prefer), hmm? (Also, I greatly appreciate it that you don't "fault" me !)
Recommended Posts