Cateyes135 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 This is my first time posting here, and I want to start off by saying that I have been the OW and DH has had an E/A. So I have been in both of those positions, I know how much they suck. Now I'm in the other position, the cheater. Never looked for it and even tried to turn away. I have no intention of leaving DH and OM should know this. What I'm wondering is what am I "allowed" to ask OM. I think he has strong feelings for me, but I don't know if I can even ask him how he feels. I want to let him know that if someone catches his eye, he shouldn't let what is going on w/ us stop him. I even hesitate to ask him what he's doing or where he's going if he doesn't volunteer the info (he usually does). While I'm trying to muck through this (yes I'm seeing a counselor) I'm determined to try my best that if anyone gets hurt it's me. At one point I even told myself that if OM did start to express strong feelings that I would end it to keep him from getting hurt any worse. So are there any rules regarding me and the OM? Besides I shouldn't be doing this?
lkjh Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 No there are no rules regarding the OM but there are rules regarding your H. You are hurting him. What if the OM hooks up with some girl and then gives you a STD? What if you transfer that STD to your H. Please don't say.....We use protection. Condoms do not always work. Why don't you just tell your H or leave him? Why put him through this? Figure out why you have such little respect for your H.
Author Cateyes135 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 I am aware of everything you said. I am a SAHM and DH has already said that he would fight me for our 4 yo. That's 2 reasons I can't leave and why I didn't leave after his EA. I am trying to work on things w/ DH even though it doesn't seem like it given the facts.
Mr. Lucky Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 So are there any rules regarding me and the OM? Besides I shouldn't be doing this? Glad you added the "besides" qualifier as I'd think that, for most people, "Don't do it" would be Rule #1! You raise an interesting point and one I've wondered about. You're not clear as to whether your OM is single (although if he isn't, how are you the OW?). Regardless, how does a WS and their affair partner define fidelity? If the OM is single, is he expected to be monagamous with you? And are you allowed to be jealous if he isn't? The contradictions are endless... Mr. Lucky
Author Cateyes135 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 You get my point exactly, Mr. Lucky. Those are the type of things I'm wondering about how others have handled it. OM is single and when I said I've been the OW, it was years ago with totally different parties involved. Thanks for pointing that out. And I couldn't figure out what WS is.
2sunny Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 WS = wayward spouse generally speaking - your OM won't find someone else as long as his emotions are tied to yours. he's not available - per se.
jwi71 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 . I am trying to work on things w/ DH even though it doesn't seem like it given the facts. You can't be serious. How can you claim to be working on your M while having an A? How can you be working on your M while trying to establish etiquette with your lover? Those are REAL questions to you. Do explain how you are working on the M while having an A.
Geishawhelk Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 ....I have been in both of those positions, I know how much they suck. It obviously doesn't suck enough, or you wouldn't be doing it. Never looked for it and even tried to turn away. Bulls hit and bulls hit. of course you did, and of course you didn't. Otherwise you'd havenever opened your legs. Would you? It's called "making a choice" and you made it. So don't come the "I don't know how it happened" crap. (yes I'm seeing a counselor) I'm determined to try my best that if anyone gets hurt it's me. At one point I even told myself that if OM did start to express strong feelings that I would end it to keep him from getting hurt any worse. Hasn't your counsellor suggested you suspend this indefinitely? What the hell are you thinking, besides having your cake and eating it too? I am aware of everything you said. I am a SAHM and DH has already said that he would fight me for our 4 yo. That's 2 reasons I can't leave Hmmm.... I don't hear anything about how you can't leave your H because you love him.... Has he finished his EA? Was he actually sleeping around, like you, or was it just an emotional prop with no sex? I am trying to work on things w/ DH even though it doesn't seem like it given the facts. The proof that you are sincere in working things out would be to stop your affair immediately. Now THAT's Good etiquette. No wonder he doesn't like it, given the facts.... I admire his self-control. If I were he, you'd be asking a lot more serious questions tha sh*1*t about etiquette!!
Reggie Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 You cannot be serious asking this question. Just do whatever you want-no rules. If there were, I doubt you'd abide by them. God, I am glad I am single. This stuff is just too nuts for me.
sadintexas Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 You're going to wait until he expresses strong feelings for you to break it off with him. You're going to do this to protect him and keep from hurting him. Don't you think it would be too late by then?
OWoman Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 This is my first time posting here, and I want to start off by saying that I have been the OW and DH has had an E/A. So I have been in both of those positions, I know how much they suck. Now I'm in the other position, the cheater. Never looked for it and even tried to turn away. I have no intention of leaving DH and OM should know this. What I'm wondering is what am I "allowed" to ask OM. I think he has strong feelings for me, but I don't know if I can even ask him how he feels. I want to let him know that if someone catches his eye, he shouldn't let what is going on w/ us stop him. I even hesitate to ask him what he's doing or where he's going if he doesn't volunteer the info (he usually does). While I'm trying to muck through this (yes I'm seeing a counselor) I'm determined to try my best that if anyone gets hurt it's me. At one point I even told myself that if OM did start to express strong feelings that I would end it to keep him from getting hurt any worse. So are there any rules regarding me and the OM? Besides I shouldn't be doing this? CE you're deluding yourself. Your OM already has "strong feelings" for you (you suspect - which suggests you have evidence for that) yet you have n intention of leaving your H - and your OM "should" know that (have you told him directly? In just those words? "This is just fun on the side for me, I'm not leaving my H") So, bingo, that's your OM hurt. You have no intention of leaving your H - for custody and financial reasons - and claim to be working on your M... while not showing any intention of ending the A. Right, so that's your H hurt. Who else is there - your 4 year old, who's going to be caught in the crossfire once this gets ugly when your H finds out? I know a couple of 4 year olds, and they're still at that "omnipotent" age where they think everything that happens is somehow due to them - so yours is likely to think s/he caused the global thermonuclear war that's about to break out with your H. So that's your kid hurt. Looks like a full house there. You may as well torture yourself and try to feel far worse than any of them, if you can, because their hurt is pretty much inevitable at this stage, and so the best you can hope for is the prize of "I want to be hurt worst" since you can no longer have "I want to be the only one hurt".
Lizzie60 Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 No.. there are no 'rules' per se... you make your own rules.. I do the same... if I feel they are getting too involved... it's over.. and they know it from the start.. The best way is to be honest about your relationship.. For example, my MM from work.. always asks me questions, like... when I go down south, etc.. if I had a fling.. blablabla.. and I tell him.. if I had one.. if he doesn't like it.. he can just stop questioning me.. or leave me alone.. When was the last time I had sex.. I guess he's masochist.. I am very opened with them.. NO COMMITMENT is rule #1...
KismetGirl Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 This is my first time posting here, and I want to start off by saying that I have been the OW and DH has had an E/A. So I have been in both of those positions, I know how much they suck. Now I'm in the other position, the cheater. Never looked for it and even tried to turn away. I have no intention of leaving DH and OM should know this. What I'm wondering is what am I "allowed" to ask OM. I think he has strong feelings for me, but I don't know if I can even ask him how he feels. I want to let him know that if someone catches his eye, he shouldn't let what is going on w/ us stop him. I even hesitate to ask him what he's doing or where he's going if he doesn't volunteer the info (he usually does). While I'm trying to muck through this (yes I'm seeing a counselor) I'm determined to try my best that if anyone gets hurt it's me. At one point I even told myself that if OM did start to express strong feelings that I would end it to keep him from getting hurt any worse. So are there any rules regarding me and the OM? Besides I shouldn't be doing this? To be honest, I doubt he would be forthcoming about strong feelings for you, even if he has them. I know that personally, I held off on telling my MM for YEARS how strongly I felt because I thought it would scare him away. And, no matter how much you tell someone that you aren't going to leave your DH, secretly he's probably hoping he can change your mind. It's all a circle. I hate to tell you this, but unless you want to take the chance that he's just telling you want to hear , there's a chance you'll hurt him. It's just how it goes. The only way to not hurt anyone is to end the affair. Anytime you continue an affair with a single person, you are taking the risk that they really fall for you (and vice versa, by the way, whether you intend to or not). You can go ahead and ask him how he feels about you, there's no "rule" that says you can't. hell, my MM just came out one day and asked me, "are you in love with me?" And guess what- I was madly in love with him, but was afraid it would freak him out, so I didn't tell him. You can (and should ) also say that you never intend to leave your husband (stress "never", not "i don't think i want to leave my husband", because anything not direct will be taken as hope that maybe one day you'll change your mind.) Like I said, he may not be honest with you and brush off his feelings as being "whatever", and then you'll just have to take the chance that he might actually fall for you. There are no guarantees in the A game.....so , I know its not what you want to hear, but the only way that guarantees no one gets hurt is if you just end it now. Otherwise that risk remains, no matter how many questions you ask him. But feel free to ask whatever you want.
lkjh Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Post like this make me fear marriage. Married woman with a 4 year old at home, asking questions on affair etiquette. How much lower can we get?
KismetGirl Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Post like this make me fear marriage. Married woman with a 4 year old at home, asking questions on affair etiquette. How much lower can we get? :::shrug:::: I doubt etiquette is really her concern. When people are confused/scared/depressed they tend to focus on an arbitrary aspect of their situation as opposed to addressing the main, bigger problem. Typical human avoidance. Not saying that as anything bad against her, just how people are. Same reason an MM might say that the reason he's cheating on his wife is lack of sex, even though oftentimes the wife is sleeping with her husband pretty regularly. It's something more than sex (perhaps a lack of emotional connection, or something else), but the MM is afraid to address that deeper issue, so they focus on something more superficial. Get what Im saying? Anyway, I already posted my advice to the OP earlier, no need to repeat it all....just wanted to comment on the above. So maybe that should be my extra advice to the OP, then- rather than worry about what you are and are not "allowed" to ask your OM, why not focus on the bigger picture and decide what it is you want out of all this anyway? Avoidance breeds perpetual limbo, which in turn only serves to make everyone pretty miserable. Believe me, I've been there. No judgements, just hoping that everyone finds their way, eventually. Which seems to be very hard to do, sometimes.....
2sure Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 As far as RULES , to me - the single person in an affair should make the rules. I did. The married person has very little to offer. As the single person in an affair with MM - the rules were all mine. I dont understand the many single women (and men) here who are held hostage by their married affair partners whims. As the single person in an affair- if it isnt to your ADVANTAGE......why bother?? I dunno, maybe its just me.
lkjh Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 :::shrug:::: I doubt etiquette is really her concern. When people are confused/scared/depressed they tend to focus on an arbitrary aspect of their situation as opposed to addressing the main, bigger problem. Typical human avoidance. Not saying that as anything bad against her, just how people are. Same reason an MM might say that the reason he's cheating on his wife is lack of sex, even though oftentimes the wife is sleeping with her husband pretty regularly. It's something more than sex (perhaps a lack of emotional connection, or something else), but the MM is afraid to address that deeper issue, so they focus on something more superficial. Get what Im saying? Anyway, I already posted my advice to the OP earlier, no need to repeat it all....just wanted to comment on the above. So maybe that should be my extra advice to the OP, then- rather than worry about what you are and are not "allowed" to ask your OM, why not focus on the bigger picture and decide what it is you want out of all this anyway? Avoidance breeds perpetual limbo, which in turn only serves to make everyone pretty miserable. Believe me, I've been there. No judgements, just hoping that everyone finds their way, eventually. Which seems to be very hard to do, sometimes..... She titled her post affair etiquette. I think it is safe to say that is her concern. She actually seems pretty leveled headed about all this, which is what makes it worse. As of the MM example. They usually tell the OW they arent having sex with their wife just to get into the OW pants. The reason most cheat and lie to the OW is simple, they just want some more sex from someone different. They want to explore the water. If they told the OW that she probably wouldn't give it.
boldjack Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Ikjh, This has to be about as clueless as I have seen. This woman has been the cheater, cheatee and everything in between all in 1 year. Every time I read about a woman like this it makes me thankful I don't cheat any more. Disgusting.
boldjack Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 The biggest joke is all of these "empowered" ow's who actually think that they have some kind of leverage over their mm. lmfao But they are still giving it up. (Oh, I have affairs when it suits me) lmfao. Like the old song "bewitched, bothered, and bewildered" should also add "deluded.":laugh::laugh:
JamesM Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 The biggest joke is ...... ....how some posters feel it is their "moral" and civil obligation to point out to Cateyes what she has said she knows. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't she ask if there was some sort of etiquette when having an affair? Or rather, is not there some rules of conduct expected? And she said "Besides I shouldn't be doing this?" So why the expected posts of "You shouldn't be doing this?" It gets a bit tiring after awhile. I suspect some posters feel that if they put their wisdom in, then she will suddenly have an "Ahah!" moment and say, "Ya know I shouldn't be doing this!" So.....to answer the real question.... 1. Partners in affairs do expect that each is exclusive to each other if they say so. (And please peanut gallery, don't start now about "How can there be honesty when there is cheating?" Don't waste space.) It sounds like the two of you have not reached that point. 2. As 2sunny said, most likely he feels emotionally attached enough that he probably doesn't have anyone else. Yet it is also possible that he has others and considers you as you consider him...some extra fun. 3. As for what you are allowed to ask, one expects that in such a relationship there should be openness about this subject. If anyone is to bring up the subject, then it will have to be you...as he is the single one. I apologize for the ones here who seem to be seeking to drive anyone out of here that cheats. It is ironic since this is the board for cheating.
JamesM Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Every time I read about a woman like this it makes me thankful I don't cheat any more. Disgusting. For some reason the irony here struck me. Pray that you never have that temptation again. Some would say that once the line has been crossed, it is much easier to cross again....as this so-called "disgusting" woman has done.
Reggie Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 It is just such a bizzare and absurd question. Why not consult Amy Vanderbilt on this?
taylor Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 This is my first time posting here, and I want to start off by saying that I have been the OW and DH has had an E/A. So I have been in both of those positions, I know how much they suck. Now I'm in the other position, the cheater. Never looked for it and even tried to turn away. I have no intention of leaving DH and OM should know this. What I'm wondering is what am I "allowed" to ask OM. I think he has strong feelings for me, but I don't know if I can even ask him how he feels. I want to let him know that if someone catches his eye, he shouldn't let what is going on w/ us stop him. I even hesitate to ask him what he's doing or where he's going if he doesn't volunteer the info (he usually does). While I'm trying to muck through this (yes I'm seeing a counselor) I'm determined to try my best that if anyone gets hurt it's me. At one point I even told myself that if OM did start to express strong feelings that I would end it to keep him from getting hurt any worse. So are there any rules regarding me and the OM? Besides I shouldn't be doing this? Cateyes135, I think what you are really asking here is how do you proceed in this affair without hurting the OM? Unless you and the OM are on exactly the same page, both going into the affair knowing exactly where each of you stands, what the intentions and expectations are, and what the potential consequences are likely to be, SOMEONE will be hurt. And I would venture to say that if true feelings have already entered the affair dynamic, it is inevitable and unavoidable that someone will get hurt. There is only one rule...complete and open honesty on both sides. Posters will scoff at this..believing that a WS is not capable of being honest with their OW/OM since it's hard to keep an affair alive without lies and deceit. But I do think if you truly care about your OM you can be honest with him. It all depends on whose interests you are attempting to serve...his or yours. He needs to know where you stand with regard to your feelings for him, your motives for entering the affair, and your feelings regarding your husband. You, likewise, need to know where he stands..his motives, his feelings, his expectations. It's not the time to sugar-coat anything. I give you credit for having the foresight to realize you have the power to hurt this single man if in fact he does have feelings for you. By contrast, there appear to be so many MM who want OW to fall in love with them just so that they will give in to sex. These MM could care less if they hurt these OW emotionally. You don't see MM coming on this forum worried that they will hurt their OW who they know are falling for them. You don't see them questioning, "Gee, I think she's falling for me. Should I keep having sex with her?" With all that said, let me add this: Affairs hurt everyone in the end. There is no way to avoid it except by ending it. In other words, to ask how to conduct an affair without hurting someone is like asking, "How do I stab this person without hurting him?" I am a MW who had an EA with a sOM. I didn't worry about hurting him until he expressed feelings for me. And by then it was too late to not hurt him. I didn't express feelings for him until I wrote him a goodbye letter. Hindsight tells me I should not have expressed any feelings for him in the goodbye letter, but I did because I didn't want him to think it was just all fun and games..it meant something to me as well. And I wanted him to know that it was because of those feelings for him that the affair had to end because it was hurting my marriage. In the goodbye letter to him, I wrote, "I care too much about you to put you in such an unfair, awkward, confusing position that I know will eventually hurt you." You may want to think a little more about what truly is in the best interests of everyone involved and then do the right thing...the unselfish thing. Many posters here (BS) reject affair relationships and don't believe affair partners deserve to be treated with respect by each other. But affair relationships are no different than regular relationships in that they still involve two human beings whose words and actions have the power to affect the other. And we are all accountable for how we treat other human beings..whether it be the BS, the WS, or the OW/OM. I could carry on about how your affair is hurting your marriage and your husband, but that is not what you asked.
Author Cateyes135 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 I haven't even finished reading all the replies, but wanted to give this update. OM is dating someone else. He broke it off w/ me. I am sitting in an hotel alone so I can get the major crying over with and decide what I'm going to do about my marriage. Also looking for a job . I care more about him than I realized, and wouldn't admit it until to late. So, I'm getting what I said I wanted. I'm the only one hurt (so far). And trust me, I'm hurting. My counselor says I sound like I'm going through a divorce.
2sunny Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 huh? you're alone because he's seeing someone else and NOW contemplating leaving your M? sheeez, this is so predictable as these storeies always go this way. all of a sudden - because he's got a new gal - you decide to make some sort of consideration for movement. don't bother - if you wanted him badly enough, it would have been better to leave your M - start seeing him after that and see if it would work. now your just running after him to keep up and HE has all the power. just walk away. it's only fair to him - but more fair to your family. work on your M to see if it can be repaired. let the OM go and try to find happiness with the new guy. he deserves that chance.
Recommended Posts