Between a rock and a hard spot ...

[Angel_star]

Hi everyone, I have a situation that has been weighing down on me for some time, involving my brother and his wife.

 

They have been married for nearly 6 yrs now, have two beautiful children, and over the past year or so I have noticed some drastic changes in my brother. He lives a couple of houses away from me and my family, and is over 5 days out of 7, mostly with the kids. I have noticed he runs into the bathroom for hours at a time, on the phone constantly, and texting a lot too. He put a password on his phone so his wife cannot get in, which stirred up quite a controversy with her.

 

About 3 months ago, my bf told me that he was cheating on his wife. I didnt believe him. But then I started putting two and two together, and thought it could very well be. I managed to hack in to my brother's voicemail, and sure enough there was a msg from this other woman. I then tried getting into her voicemail, and sure enough, she had saved about 20 messages that my brother had left her, as early as February 2008. A tip to everyone out there: when choosing your voicemail password, get creative, do not make it the last four digits of your phone number! These were not innocent messages, there were some saying she's a sex machine and wants to make another appointment, another that his wallet and so on. must have fell out of his pants at her house. His wife works two days a week and he is supposed to be picking up stock for his business on these days, but obviously makes time for this other woman. The other woman definately knows he is married because on one of his messages he said he just called to hear her voice but he has to put his phone off since his wife was coming him.

 

There is a lot more I can say, but my question is, what do I do?

I have thought of confronting my brother, but he will just lie to me. I cannot just tell his wife as I will be blamed for their split. I cannot even imagine not seeing my nephews, to who I am godmother.

 

Any advice on what to do?

Thank you for reading

[TOWinNYC]

Angel -

You do nothing.

 

This isn't your marriage or your life. I understand this is your brother and the love you feel for him and his family. But how he chooses to live his life isn't for you to decide. Once the fallout happens (or maybe not) THAT'S when you'll be there for everyone involved (brother, SIL & kids).

 

That's all you can do.

[Angel_star]

Thanks...guess I just needed to hear it from another person.

 

I haven't talked to anyone about this, I am close with my mother but I cannot talk to her about it because I don't want her to feel the same weight on her shoulders as I do. I lost respect for my brother, I don't see him the same as I used to, but anyways. Life happens.

 

My only other concern is if it does ever come out, I don't want anyone to know I knew and did nothing about it.

 

Thanks for reading, and your response

[travelgirl]

I think you need to confront him. Tell him you know. Even if he denies it, at least you did your part on trying without going to his wife behind his back (which I don't recommend.) Tell him if your suspicious and found out, it is only a matter of time before wife finds out and the fallout starts.

 

How does your BF know?? Did he tell him and not you?

[kakui215]

You hacked into his voice mail and into hers? I'm sorry, but even though he's your brother, this is none of your business and you have certainly crossed a line by doing that. TOWinNYC is right -- your role is to be there to support those you love if or when it becomes necessary.

 

In the meantime, don't automatically assume that all the blame lies on your brother. Most of it well could, but you don't really know all the dynamics of his relationship with his wife. There could be other things about his wife (and about him) that you don't know -- and shouldn't try to find out -- that could mitigate your judgement concerning the things that you do know. Always keep in mind the poetic words of Donald Rumsfeld:

 

As we know,

There are known knowns.

There are things we know we know.

We also know

There are known unknowns.

That is to say

We know there are some things

We do not know.

But there are also unknown unknowns,

The ones we don't know

We don't know.

 

—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing

Source: http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/

[Angel_star]

Thank you travelgirl...

My bf and I visit my brother a lot at his shop, and this girl also works in the same building. (Its kind of like an open market in a building). Often when I visited she is in his shop with him. I never thought anything of it as everyone knows everyone and people visit him all the time. But once my bf went, she was sitting there with her hand on his lap. She went back to work hen he showed up and my bf asked my bf about her. It took time, but he admitted he was seeing her. My brother opened up to my bf about his marriage troubles and this other girl. He asked my bf to check a number for him (he works in cell phones) and my bf said he would ask me cuz I know people at various cell phone providers, and he said not to ask me cuz he thinks I would tell his wife.

 

I would never just tell my SIL, as much as I can't stand him right now, my brother comes first. I dont want to be responsible for breaking up their marriage. If they didn'T have children, I wouldn't think twice about confronting my brother and telling him to drop the girl or tell his wife. But it's not my place to do it and I know that. Pisses me off that everyone at the store knows this and I visit him with my nephews and his wife also. I have a feeling my SIL either already knows or is suspicious by now.

 

I almost feel like I need counseling lol... I wish I didnt know.

[Angel_star]

Thank you for your response kakui215

 

I am well aware that I crossed the line. I admit that.

 

But regardless of what is going on in their relationship, and no I will not pry in their relationship, he has no right to just start another relationship while still in this marriage. They are MARRIED and have CHILDREN. You don't just carry on a relationship with another person to fill your voids. You talk about what is wrong, go to counseling, call it quits. You don't just stray. I will support the ones I love when **** hits the fans, but my I also love my SIL. She gave birth to my nephews, and I love her like the sister I never had. I am very close to my SIL, she tells me alot about their relationship without me having to ask.

 

I have been cheated on in the past, I have been through this. But thank god I was not married and did not have children with this person.

 

This affects the lives of many, not just them two.

[norajane]

I'd talk to your brother. He already spilled the beans to your bf, so he had to know it would get back to you.

 

He's exposing your SIL to STD's. It's not fair to her to be in the dark when everyone else knows. Tell your brother that if he doesn't tell his wife, then you will.

 

If everyone didn't make it so easy for cheaters to get away with it, maybe there'd be fewer cheaters taking the risk!

A tip to everyone out there: when choosing your voicemail password, get creative, do not make it the last four digits of your phone number!

Or you can "innocently" pass on this tip to your SIL in some casual conversation about cell phones and passwords. She might pick up on it and take things into her own hands by checking his voice mail.

[MSUE]

This is not your marriage...its their business...and its not your place just like it was not your place to hack their voicemails. You can't be judgamental cause you don't know all the details. you don't know behind their closed doors...and u don't know if that could be you in your brother's situation at some point in life...

 

 

If your SIL is attentive I'm sure she's got a gut feeling and will figure out what's going on if she hasn't already...she could be having a lil fun on her end as well.

 

you just don't know

[jwi71]

If your brother was doing drugs would you intervene?

If your brother was going to commit suicide would you intervene?

If your brother was going to ruin his life would you intervene?

If your brother was planning to rob a bank would you intervene?

If you knew your SiL and her children were being horribly abused would you intervene?

 

Apparently not. Its ok for him to ruin his life and the lives of his children and W.

 

That makes you an enabler. One could even say it makes you an accessory to the crime as you know of it and DO nothing. In my book, YOU share some of the responsibility for HIS families pain. An accomplice by virtue of doing nothing.

 

Sorry, but YOU MUST ACT for his your brother's sake, his W's sake and the sake of those children - and your parents and everyone else.

 

Here is what I would do.

 

1) Forward the "smoking gun" voice mails to yourself.

 

2) Then sit your brother down and have a private one on one chat. Tell him you know. Then give him a choice: he can tell his W or YOU will. Deadline to tell the W - one hour. Ignore his lies. Ignore his anger. And DO NOT tell him you have the voice mails. Just tell him you know - woman's intuition.

 

This will NOT be well received. No one likes to be confronted with obviously bad behavior. Its very much like telling a drug addict he can't have drugs - it may be exactly what the druggie needs but he will HATE you for it at the time.

 

3) If he refuses to tell - and he will refuse and deny the A, then you have an unimaginably hard thing to do. Tell his W and play for her the voice mails. You say you do not want to be blamed for ruining their M - well, you ARE involved already and ARE playing a role in destroying the M by NOT telling. Your choice, to me, is clear.

Sit his W down and simply tell her the truth, her H is cheating on her. Then play the voice mails for her.

 

I know you don't WANT to do this. But life isn't always about wants and is often about duty and responsibility. This is yours now. Its yours because you KNOW.

 

All that evil needs to win is for good men (women) to do NOTHING.

[norajane]

How can he deny the affair when he already told her bf all about it?

 

But once my bf went, she was sitting there with her hand on his lap. She went back to work hen he showed up and my bf asked my bf about her. It took time, but he admitted he was seeing her. My brother opened up to my bf about his marriage troubles and this other girl.

[Angel_star]

If your brother was doing drugs would you intervene?

If your brother was going to commit suicide would you intervene?

If your brother was going to ruin his life would you intervene?

If your brother was planning to rob a bank would you intervene?

If you knew your SiL and her children were being horribly abused would you intervene?

 

Apparently not. Its ok for him to ruin his life and the lives of his children and W.

 

.

 

PLEASE do not say that about me. If I didn't care about him ruining his and others' lives, would I be here asking for help? Would I lose sleep countless nights over it?

 

I am here asking for help how to go about this. Initially I thought of confronting him and giving him the ultimatum of telling her himself, or let me tell her. Never would I go straight to her with the information without speaking to him. If I were to do that I could ruin any chance they may have of salvaging their marriage, whereas if he does it himself she may forgive him and go to counseling or call it quits. I put myself in her shoes, and obviously if anyone knew my H is cheating, I would expect them to do something about it.

 

To everyone who says do nothing, obviously is not thinking of his W, or putting themselves in her shoes. There is the huge factor of STDs, like some of you have mentioned. I know there is a lot I do not know, but what I do know is that it is wrong.

 

Thank you all for your responses, and for giving me the push I need to confront my brother. I really do not see any other option. I can live with my brother hating me for doing so, but I could not live with myself if god forbid STDs were spread

[Spark1111]

According to the experts, you so must examine your motives when telling a friend or family member that you have discovered an affair that can/will hurt everyone involved. I would speak to my brother immediately and tell him what I know and ask him how he intends to handle this potentially devastating situation. I would be there for BOTH my brother, his wife and their children. I would encourage him to act like a grown up and to do the right thing by all involved. I would try not to act angry and judgemental, just concerned for everyone involved. I would encourage him to get counseling immediately.

[jwi71]

PLEASE do not say that about me. If I didn't care about him ruining his and others' lives, would I be here asking for help? Would I lose sleep countless nights over it?

 

Then kindly explain this:

"I would never just tell my

SIL

, as much as I can't stand him right now, my brother comes first. I dont want to be responsible for breaking up their marriage. If they didn'T have children, I wouldn't think twice about confronting my brother and telling him to drop the girl or tell his wife. But it's not my place to do it and I know that. Pisses me off that everyone at the store knows this and I visit him with my nephews and his wife also. I have a feeling my

SIL

either already knows or is suspicious by now."

I didn't say anything about YOU that YOU didn't already say yourself.

 

I am here asking for help how to go about this.

And you got my opinion. Based on what YOU posted.

Initially I thought of confronting him and giving him the ultimatum of telling her himself, or let me tell her. Never would I go straight to her with the information without speaking to him

Wake up. Apparently confiding in your bf didn't convince him to change.

I can almost promise you he won't end it on his own - OR HE WOULD HAVE ALREADY.

 

Look, A's like a drug addiction and they NEED to be treated as such. Which means drastic an irreversible action. Talking to your brother is a great first step. But you NEED ACTIONS, not words. Get him to commit to verifiable ACTION to end it. And I can promise you if your brother is NOT ready to end the A, he won't. He'll simply become a better liar and sneak.

 

The ONLY way to end an A is to drag it into the light. EVERYONE needs to know.

 

If I were to do that I could ruin any chance they may have of salvaging their marriage, whereas if he does it himself she may forgive him and go to counseling or call it quits

I very much disagree. The cheating MAY end their M - not who informs her of it. My W cheated on me and I caught her. We are working on receovery - my choice. It wouldn't have mattered WHO told me. Actually, had my W confessed instead of getting caught - it would have made a real difference. Hence my suggestion of FORCING him to confess.

 

Their M is not necessairly over. That is HIS WIFE'S choice now. At least it will be once she knows.

 

Question OP.

 

What will you do if your brother DOES NOTHING and continues the A?

Or if he tells YOU its under control and does NOTHING?

[Geishawhelk]

Sorry Angel... I'm completely with jwi71 on this.

can't you just see it a few *days/weeks/months* down the line and your SiL screams at you -

"You f**king knew all about this and you didn't tell me - !?"

 

I don't know how you can actually admit you crossed the line by doing all that hacking - but you don't feel you can cross the line by not bring ing him out into the open.

 

What good is the info to you if you don't intend exposing the lying, cheating screwing, heartless, callous, deceitful little jerk?

 

I don't care if he IS your brother.

It's the way his wife is going to perceive him, when she finds out. Might as well face it here first.

[Angel_star]

When he told my bf about his situation, my bf told him he was wrong and has to do something about it, but didnt go further than that.

 

Putting myself in her shoes, if someone else would tell me about the A, and not my H, I probably wouldn't think twice about leaving. With all respect, your situation is different because you caught her yourself, you didn't have another person tell you about it.

 

The purpose of me confronting my brother would not be just to confront and let him do what he want. I will make it very clear to him that he needs confess this all to his wife and let her decide the next step. I will tell him that he has example until the end of the week, or else I will have to tell her about it. I would not just confront him and just let it die. I want to give him a chance to approach it how he wants, but I will make it very clear that if he doesn't tell, I will.

 

I thank you for your response, but do you really need to be so harsh and agressive? If I didnt give a sh*it about any of it, I wouldn't be here. I am not the one having an A. I came here because I have this bottled up inside since I really cannot talk about this to anyone, and obviously need some guidance.

[carhill]

Secrets are power. Who has the power here? Power is a potent motivator.

 

OP, when your brother told your boyfriend about his situation, what was your boyfriend's response? (Thanks for your prior response) Does he know your brother well? Sometimes men handle things better with other men. It's situational.

[2sunny]

i'm sure she wonders - most spouses who are being cheated on know that "something is off" and start searching for what it might be.

 

he's probably been making her feel like a crazy lady by drawing the attention away from himself.

 

go directly to him. tell him you know and to fess up to the truth with his W. this is the only way to do this without causing MORE animosity. allow him to take responsibility and action for his bad behavior and tell him that you will be supportive if he chooses to do the right thing. they will need counseling if they are going to try to work things out. if he's not willing - he's OUT!

 

make him show you proof that he breaks it off with the OW. no contact with her is what it will take if he's going to work on the marriage. his actions will tell you a lot. if he's secretive - he's still seeing her. when things don't make sense - there's a reason.

 

stay close to your SIL - she's going to need love and support no matter how this goes down.

[Angel_star]

carhill- thank you. I have been with my bf for 8 yrs now, they are good friends. My bf kinda went straight to the point and asked him what was going on. He really just listened to him and gave him his 2 cents, but he wouldn't go further because he and my SIL do not really get along, and does not want to get involved. When my bf told me, my reaction was YOU ARE NUTS. They have been together nearly 14 years now, he's had cancer, been through hell and back. Never did I think he would do that to her. I noticed her change after the birth of my second nephew. Went through postpartum depression, started smoking again after nearly 10 years of not smoking. That's just about when the affair started.

 

I don't want to use me knowing as power over his head. I really just want him to make a decision, either to leave his family, or leave the OW, and stick to it. Family is very dear to me. Growing up, we watched three of our aunts go through this cheating and divorce with their husbands. One of them is still in courts going through custody and child care support battles with her 12 and 14 year old children. We had only our parents to look up to. The only ones on both sides of my family who have been married nearly 40 years now. It just breaks my heart to think of seeing my nephews go though that.

 

2 sunny- thank you for your response. I agree, getting him to confess is the only option. There is no doubt in my mind that she is suspicious, even my parents are suspicious. It takes him an hour and a half to get home from work when it used to take 10 minutes, and won' answer the phone when someone tried to reach him.

[2sunny]

when it is no longer a secret - it's not nearly as exciting. kind of like letting the air out of a balloon.

 

when he is exposed and will be forced to chose one way or the other - it won't be the excitement he's been experiencing.

 

quite the opposite.

[jwi71]

Putting myself in her shoes, if someone else would tell me about the A, and not my H, I probably wouldn't think twice about leaving.

 

I said that once. Its easy to say when it doesn't happen to you. Yes, you had a bf cheat on you. And you also realize just how radically different a situation is when its marriage and two young children. So in all fairness to you, you CANT know how you would respond if you married your bf, bore children and then caught him cheating.

 

Its kinda like saying how horrible it is for starving people in Africa. You know - but you really don't.

 

With all respect, your situation is different because you caught her yourself, you didn't have another person tell you about it.

Its like the twilight zone. I kid you not, we just finished having dinner with friends and we discussed this VERY topic. I normally don't post on weekends but I was waiting for them earlier so I posted and have just returned. How odd this crops up again.

 

For me it wouldn't have made difference if you told me, a friend or Santa freaking Claus. I would not focus on the messenger but the message. A confession would have meant the world to me. Other than that - no real difference.

 

The purpose of me confronting my brother would not be just to confront and let him do what he want.

I am proud to say you DIDN'T say that until I posted. Perhaps the tone is what you needed - harsh and aggressive.

 

I will make it very clear to him that he needs confess this all to his wife and let her decide the next step. I will tell him that he has example until the end of the week, or else I will have to tell her about it. I would not just confront him and just let it die. I want to give him a chance to approach it how he wants, but I will make it very clear that if he doesn't tell, I will.

I agree 100 percent. You can't run and hide now that you know. Time to save your brother from himself. Volunteer to take his kids next weekend (they stay the night with you) and he confesses then. This gets the kids out of what will be a HIGHLY charged situation.

I thank you for your response, but do you really need to be so harsh and agressive?

Yes. I tailor my post to the OPs needs as I see them. And you, to be frank, needed a swift kick in the ass. You were quite willing, per YOUR posts, to sit by and let harm come to your brother and his family. Go back and read - its plain as day your inaction.

 

I hope you DO act. Its what your brother and his family need.

 

cannot talk about this to anyone, and obviously need some guidance.

Disagree. Affairs can only live in secrecy and darkness. It can only end if EVERYONE knows. Not just the W - everyone. Now is the time to pull family and friends together. Garner their love and support to hopefully survive these dire times. I urge you to sit down and tell your parents and other siblings. Its very much an intervention.

 

Hey Angel, I hope you find your way through this. I hope your brother and his family reach a conclusion they can live with. I am NOT here to beat you up because I can. You needed it.

 

Just like your brother needs his family.

And a swift kick in the ass too.

[boldjack]

Angel... you have shown a great deal of character here. Good Luck

[Reggie]

I agree ,confront him and give him the option of confessing.You need to protect your SIL.

[jj33]

Angel you need to confront your brother. What I dont understand is you have done all the cloak and dagger stuff (hacking....) which is a clear invasion of privacy and illegal by the way but you wouldnt talk to your own brother?

 

Are you not very close with your brother? Confront him. Yes they have been through 14 years but you dont know what goes on inside a marriage. Only he and his W know that.

 

If you "tell" on your brother, you may seriously damage your relationship with him for life. He is your brother.

 

if you dont feel close enough with him to speak to him directly, honestly and read forthrightly then you certainly have no right to interfere in his marriage. You are not the morals police.

 

Reading your post, your outrage seems to be moral outrage. Not once did you say I am worried about my brother. I didnt know he was unhappy enough to do something so out of character. You are his sister first, arent you?

 

It doesnt make sense that you would have this information and not confront hiim with it. You dont have to threaten him with telling his wife just tell him look she is going to find out and that he should stop the affair, or leave if that is what he wants to do. What he tells his wife is really up to him not you.

 

And another thing. People go through dark journeys sometimes especially after they have been very ill. Sometimes people reevaluate their lives in ways that noone else would expect. So again if you arent close enough to have confronted your brother immediately upon finding out about the affair, then you are unlikely to be close enough to him to know what is going on in his head.

 

I am not condoning the affair I am simply saying you dont have all the facts because you havent spoken to him. Before you even consider going in all guns blazing, you need to speak to your brother.

 

If the information comes from you rather than from him, the consequences for his marriage (if indeed he wants it to continue) are going to be far more severe.

 

Good luck and be compassionate think of your brother who must be hurting in many ways or he would not have done this. Everyone else will judge him but you are his sister. Try to be on his side at least to hear him out. Not to condone the affair but at least to hear why and how this happened and to encourage him to take steps to end it.

 

I dont speak to my brother that often as we live time zones away from each other and I havent seen him in over a year. But if I found out he was having an A I would pick up the phone immediately. No hesitation. I know he has had ample opportunity to cheat and a turbulent marriage but its not something he would ever do, hes an analyser like me looked at if from all perspectives and decided no, not a good alternative. So if he did I would not hesitate to call and see WTF was going on.

[username24]

How would you feel if your SIL knew that your bf was cheating on you but decided not to tell you? I know that if my SIL knew that my WW was having an A and didn't tell me, she'd be dead to me. You are either a friend of the M or you are an enemy. The choice is yours.