I told you he's always honest with me....

[OWoman]

I think KG is trying to process this logically, framing questions in a logical way - which people then answer in a logical way. And then they get frustrated when KG's response is not a linear, logical follow up to that... because of course none of this has anything to do with logic; it's all about emotions and emotions are anything but logical.

 

You can't argue someone out of their emotions, no matter how sound or logical your argument. It requires an emotional shift - and it's unlikely that anything anyone here says will trigger that. It will likely have to come from something between KG and her MM - if she's ready and willing to hear it at the time. Until then, all anyone here really can do is listen, challenge, support or question - but expecting that to cause change is only going to cause frustration all round.

[jasminetea]

To pick up on something KG has said: Yes, one can control one's emotions. I'm surprised that KG doesn't know about CBT and how one's thoughts influence one's feelings as she works in mental health. On that same note, I'm concerned that KG seems unable to recognise the dynamics of what is going on and why, (as surely if she did she'd have been out of there a long time ago!) given her knowledge of mental health.

 

KismetGirl, I can't say I'm surprised about this. He's now told you that he wants you to back off and forget loving him. Four years of shagging you has obviously given him the belief that he can get away with saying this to you. I hope you manage to prove him wrong.

 

You may also want to bear in mind that you don't know the truth of his marriage, what you know comes from supposition and what he's told you. The same as any relationship - the only people that know the truth are the people in it.

 

To get over this (or any) relationship you need to make the decision to move on and to let all the questions go. Stop analysising, stop justifying, stop asking. You must have very low self-esteem to be hanging on to this.

 

Owl and Die Hard are great. If you truly want the best outcome of this situation, take their advice.

 

P.S. For those that are wondering - in the UK we do condemn affairs. I'm wondering if OWoman's village is Royston Vasey

[jj33]

Hate to disagree but Jasmine you must not be a daily mail reader... they are celebrated daily - condemned with a wink!

[jasminetea]

Hate to disagree but Jasmine you must not be a daily mail reader... they are celebrated daily - condemned with a wink!

 

Otherwise known as The Daily Bigot. Say enough?

[jj33]

Im not a fan either but for such a small country there is a huge diversity of opinions and values. We may have to agree to disagree Jasmine but in my view, its much more acceptable in the UK than in the US.

[jasminetea]

I've only lived in the US for a year and the UK for the rest of my 37 years. I only know that in my experience, the UK doesn't find affairs acceptable as OWoman implied.

 

I'm also confused about your apparent implication that the US doesn't have a diverse population. Not in my experience, I have to say.

 

Shall we take this to PM, I'm not comfortable with hijacking the thread so much.

[Owl]

KG, I note that you're again saying that changing the dynamic after four years is difficult, which is why people need to understand why you're not "over" this already.

 

I'm going to ask again...what are you DOING DIFFERENTLY today?

 

What ACTION are you taking differently today to actually change the situation?

 

You've had more than enough talk about things...what matters (as you've heard over and over) are ACTIONS.

 

What are you DOING to improve?

[Mino]

KG, I note that you're again saying that changing the dynamic after four years is difficult, which is why people need to understand why you're not "over" this already.

 

I'm going to ask again...what are you DOING DIFFERENTLY today?

 

What ACTION are you taking differently today to actually change the situation?

 

You've had more than enough talk about things...what matters (as you've heard over and over) are ACTIONS.

 

What are you DOING to improve?

Nothing owl, She will not do anything until she is sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bottom line...

[OWoman]

P.S. For those that are wondering - in the UK we do condemn affairs.

 

I'm sure there must be some people who do - are you from Dagenham or Barking, by any chance? Luckily I don't live among people who care more about Strictly Come Dancing than they do about the attacks on Gaza.

 

I'm wondering if OWoman's village is Royston Vasey

 

Never heard of it - but then I don't read the tabloids, so perhaps that's why.

[jasminetea]

Your assumption that people who live in Barking or Dagenham care more about some TV programme than real life issues says more about you than them

 

The fact you know nothing about Royston Vasey also speaks volumes

[OWoman]

Your assumption that people who live in Barking or Dagenham care more about some TV programme than real life issues says more about you than them

 

It says I'm not a member of the BNP and don't hang out with people who are. So I wouldn't know if they are opposed to As - I'll just have to take your word for it.

 

The fact you know nothing about Royston Vasey also speaks volumes

 

So I don't watch TV. I still have all my brain cells. Gosh - what volumes that speaks!

[jasminetea]

Oh dear you really are living in the past. Do try to involve yourself with my culture if you wish to make accurate assumptions or do feel free to leave, if you don't

 

So I don't watch TV. I still have all my brain cells. Gosh - what volumes that speaks!

 

Another sweeping generalisation from you. Keep it up, you're painting a great picture of yourself.

 

As I said before, shall we take this to PM? I at least, am not so selfish to continue hijacking the thread.

[herenow]

With all this talk about affairs being accepted or not in the UK, I have one question: If adultery is more acceptable in the UK, does that mean that people are less hurt by the fallout of an affair?

[Billie63]

With all this talk about affairs being accepted or not in the UK, I have one question: If adultery is more acceptable in the UK, does that mean that people are less hurt by the fallout of an affair?

 

Of course not. As I've recently found out, the fall out can be wide ranging. It's been 9 months now. Both sides of the family - his and mine were/are extremely upset about it. His family miss me, my family miss him.

 

When we first broke up they kept their own counsel. But now time has passed it's been made clear to me how hurt everyone is and how life has genuinely changed for everyone.

 

My 2 year old great-nephew adored him and for months after the split was asking for him constantly - so much so that I had to ask my ex to ring him and speak to him.

 

His new girlfriend, the one who was waiting in the wings when we split, doesn't stand a chance with his family. They'll be polite but they have no intention of liking her. She was introduced to them too quickly after our split. How could they jump from knowing and loving me for 6 years to jumping into a friendship with her within 6 weeks of our breaking up?

 

It's not her fault, it was my ex's fault for rushing things and expecting everyone else to fall in with his new life at his pace.

[herenow]

Of course not. As I've recently found out, the fall out can be wide ranging. It's been 9 months now. Both sides of the family - his and mine were/are extremely upset about it. His family miss me, my family miss him.

 

When we first broke up they kept their own counsel. But now time has passed it's been made clear to me how hurt everyone is and how life has genuinely changed for everyone.

 

My 2 year old great-nephew adored him and for months after the split was asking for him constantly - so much so that I had to ask my ex to ring him and speak to him.

 

His new girlfriend, the one who was waiting in the wings when we split, doesn't stand a chance with his family. They'll be polite but they have no intention of liking her. She was introduced to them too quickly after our split. How could they jump from knowing and loving me for 6 years to jumping into a friendship with her within 6 weeks of our breaking up?

 

It's not her fault, it was my ex's fault for rushing things and expecting everyone else to fall in with his new life at his pace.

 

So, no matter where you live and how acceptable the behavior might or might not be, affairs still cause pain Is that correct?

[Billie63]

So, no matter where you live and how acceptable the behavior might or might not be, affairs still cause pain Is that correct?

 

It really does depend. If his family hated me they'd have said good riddance surely?

 

No, it was not the affair that caused the pain, the break up caused the pain.

 

The person who's been most hurt by the affair is his new girlfriend because they all think she's an idiot. And their respect for my ex has gone downhill. They've got pretty old fashioned views on fidelity.

[Owl]

Kismet, I want to re-ask this of you, since you've not directly responded to this question yet.

 

KG, I note that you're again saying that changing the dynamic after four years is difficult, which is why people need to understand why you're not "over" this already.

 

I'm going to ask again...what are you DOING DIFFERENTLY today?

 

What ACTION are you taking differently today to actually change the situation?

 

You've had more than enough talk about things...what matters (as you've heard over and over) are ACTIONS.

 

What are you DOING to improve?

 

I think that honestly answering this question is an important first step for you.

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, I want to re-ask this of you, since you've not directly responded to this question yet.

 

 

 

I think that honestly answering this question is an important first step for you.

 

 

Righto, i wasn't paying attention since the thread turned to conversations on the attributes of various English villages and newspapers.

 

I dont know. I havent done anything yet. I havent talked to him since last week. He's in conferences all week, and Im not around due to my own hectic schedule, so there's a good chance we wont speak or see each other until next week. Which is maybe good....I need to think a little. My head isn't on straight right now.

[2sunny]

this is good KG-

 

gives you a chance to change some things and consider new things.

 

no contact can give good clarity, time to consider what the best outcome could be and a plan to get there, one step at a time.

 

remember, no reaction is always an action.

[Owl]

Righto, i wasn't paying attention since the thread turned to conversations on the attributes of various English villages and newspapers.

 

I dont know. I havent done anything yet. I havent talked to him since last week. He's in conferences all week, and Im not around due to my own hectic schedule, so there's a good chance we wont speak or see each other until next week. Which is maybe good....I need to think a little. My head isn't on straight right now.

 

KG, it's good that you can stop and see this.

 

Here's a thought...and I don't mean it as an attack of any kind, but an observation.

 

How can you expect "this time to be different", if you're not DOING anything to 'make it different'?

 

It brings to mind that tired old adage "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results.".

 

While it's not 'insanity' (nor am I saying that you're insane), it's still an apt description of what you're actually doing.

 

It should hopefully point out the futility of this...

 

And hopefully point out to you WHY you need to take DIFFERENT actions, if you're wanting a DIFFERENT result.

 

If you're tired of being his OW...then you need to TAKE ACTION to change the situation.

 

Sitting there grieving over how it is isn't going to do that for you.

 

Sitting there hoping he'll come to his senses won't work either.

 

YOU are the one who needs to make a change, since YOU are the one who WANTS/NEEDS the situation to change.

 

You're not helpless, not powerless. Quite the opposite...you are the only one who CAN make a change to fix your situation.

 

Own that...and start working it.

[NoIDidn't]

KG, it's good that you can stop and see this.

 

Here's a thought...and I don't mean it as an attack of any kind, but an observation.

 

How can you expect "this time to be different", if you're not DOING anything to 'make it different'?

 

It brings to mind that tired old adage "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results.".

 

While it's not 'insanity' (nor am I saying that you're insane), it's still an apt description of what you're actually doing.

 

It should hopefully point out the futility of this...

 

And hopefully point out to you WHY you need to take DIFFERENT actions, if you're wanting a DIFFERENT result.

 

If you're tired of being his OW...then you need to TAKE ACTION to change the situation.

 

Sitting there grieving over how it is isn't going to do that for you.

 

Sitting there hoping he'll come to his senses won't work either.

 

YOU are the one who needs to make a change, since YOU are the one who WANTS/NEEDS the situation to change.

 

You're not helpless, not powerless. Quite the opposite...you are the only one who CAN make a change to fix your situation.

 

Own that...and start working it.

 

Owl

 

I don't think that the "insanity" argument will jar KG any because I don't think that she thinks her sanity is on the line. She's been in this for so long and has made up so many ways to rationalize this in her mind, that until that fog lifts or she actually does lose her mind - will she be able to see that.

[KismetGirl]

Owl

 

I don't think that the "insanity" argument will jar KG any because I don't think that she thinks her sanity is on the line. She's been in this for so long and has made up so many ways to rationalize this in her mind, that until that fog lifts or she actually does lose her mind - will she be able to see that.

 

 

Don't worry, i lost my mind ages ago. I'm a very functional nutter, for the most part. Woooooooo! I mean who's really sane anyway.

 

I'm very perceptive and rational in my thinking. I just don't follow the rational course of action all the time, even when I know what it might be. You know, I'm human and all that jazz.

[NoIDidn't]

This thread is really a frustrating read.

 

Even KG has stopped posting as much to it.

 

I agree with NJ that many of us DO know the damage being done to her. Some of us have lived long enough to say "been there, done that" a couple of times. These kinds of relationships come in many different flavors - an affair or a single guy. But the damage done is real and lasting.

 

Thing is, whether KG accepts it or not, this relationship WILL end. But the bad part is she will be even worst off if she actually gets him. He believes that she has accepted things because she is too afraid to tell him otherwise. So he disrespects her and tells her in so many words that he isn't leaving because his life isn't that bad. And this thread has gone on and on and on with various reasons for why he isn't leaving ignoring the fact that he isn't leaving.

 

Does it matter if he loves his W or KG? No. Because he isn't leaving. Does it matter if his W is plain and KG is a Sex goddess? No. Because he isn't leaving. Does it matter that they have kids? No. Because he isn't leaving. Does his immigration status figure into this somehow? No. Because he isn't leaving.

 

The theme in most of what KG writes is that she is wondering why he stays with a woman that she thinks she is better than based on his own words about it. The theme being that she wants him to choose her or give her a good reason for not choosing her. But he has chosen KG, just not for the role that she actually wants.

 

KG, my thoughts go out to you because I hope you get as far away from this man as possible soon. I hope you print out this thread and the others like it so you can read them when you are over him and make sure that you never find yourself in this position again.

[NoIDidn't]

Don't worry, i lost my mind ages ago. I'm a very functional nutter, for the most part. Woooooooo! I mean who's really sane anyway.

 

I'm very perceptive and rational in my thinking. I just don't follow the rational course of action all the time, even when I know what it might be. You know, I'm human and all that jazz.

 

Oh believe me that I don't have any venom in my post for you.

 

I'm just convinced that you can't see or don't want to admit what this is doing to you.

 

I'm not calling you names in the slightest.

[jwi71]

I'm just convinced that you can't see or don't want to admit what this is doing to you.

 

Spot on.

 

I believe that people will ONLY change in one of two circumstances.

 

1) There is something they want soooo badly they change to get it.

2) They are so broken and in so much pain that the only way to live is to change.

 

KG isn't broken enough to want to change. She hasn't cried enough tears, she hasn't lost enough to "be there". So she obfuscates. She excuses. She ignores. She explains away. She clings to whatever shreds of hope(?) for her MM.

 

Like you NiD, I have asked her to re-read her posts. To remind herself where she has been. And like any addict, the lows aren't that bad after all. The drug is too good and the loss not enough. Blind to the destruction in her own life.

 

Sadly, I think that what finally makes her wake up is failing out of Med School. That will break her sufficiently to change.

 

A heavy price to pay for stolen moments.

 

I, nor anyone really, can stop her. Her friends cannot. Her family cannot. Her Ph..sy..chi...dammit, shrink cannot. Only she stops herself. And she simply doesn't want to stop. The highs of the hit far outweigh the withdrawal.

 

When she's broken enough, when she has lost enough - she will change.